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Gritty N.J. city of Camden to scrap police department amid budget woes
Fox News ^ | 8/26/2012 | By Perry Chiaramonte

Posted on 08/26/2012 5:12:44 AM PDT by tobyhill

Crime-ridden Camden, New Jersey - often referred to as the most dangerous city in the United States—is getting rid of its police department.

In the latest example of a cash-strapped municipality taking drastic measures to deal with swollen public sector liabilities and shrinking budgets, the city plans to disband its 460-member police department and replace it with a non-union “Metro Division” of the Camden County Police. Backers of the plan say it will save millions of dollars for taxpayers while ensuring public safety, but police unions say it is simply a way to get out of collective bargaining with the men and women in blue.

“This is definitely a form of union-busting," Camden Fraternal Order of Police President John Williamson told FoxNews.com. “This method is unproven and untested, to put your faith in an agency that doesn’t even [yet] exist.”

Camden County Mayor Dana Redd has said layoffs of the city’s police force will begin by the end of the month. Only 49 percent of current city police officers will be transferred to the new county division, whose members will begin a four- to five-month training program.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: camden; newjersey

1 posted on 08/26/2012 5:12:52 AM PDT by tobyhill
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To: tobyhill

I presume that the department of diversity , or whatever they call it, will remain untouched.


2 posted on 08/26/2012 5:15:35 AM PDT by jmcenanly ("The more corrupt the state, the more laws." Tacitus, Publius Cornelius)
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To: tobyhill

Camden is the city in New Jersey that makes Newark look like a beautiful, well-ordered, well-functioning city.


3 posted on 08/26/2012 5:18:54 AM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: tobyhill

Going from a union government agency to a non-union government agency can only be an improvement.


4 posted on 08/26/2012 5:19:13 AM PDT by Altariel ("Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!")
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To: tobyhill

It will be a temporary improvement just until the unions get their hands on the new agency.


5 posted on 08/26/2012 5:21:09 AM PDT by DugwayDuke
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To: Altariel

this Virus is going from California to North East called Unions


6 posted on 08/26/2012 5:21:44 AM PDT by scooby321 (AMS)
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To: tobyhill

Another PUBLIC EMPLOYEE’s UNION without Obama Stimulus funds.

Obama has no need for any army that he doesn’t command. The unions are just too slow to understand that they are of value to him for only about the next 71 days. He’s pretty sure he can BS them that long.


7 posted on 08/26/2012 5:22:18 AM PDT by Steamburg (The contents of your wallet is the only language Politicians understand.)
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To: tobyhill

So now the drug cartels have a homebase.


8 posted on 08/26/2012 5:22:28 AM PDT by ronnie raygun (bb)
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To: tobyhill

“but police unions say it is simply a way to get out of collective bargaining with the men and women in blue.

“This is definitely a form of union-busting,”

Ding Ding we have a winner.

The police ought to give thanks that there is at least a chance of survival.


9 posted on 08/26/2012 5:27:54 AM PDT by wita
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To: tobyhill

should consider doing something similar on Long Island....where Suffolk COunty cops are now making...in some cases...$200K+...throw in the $100K+ teachers....and LI going down the toilet...


10 posted on 08/26/2012 5:35:42 AM PDT by PigRigger (Donate to http://www.AdoptAPlatoon.org - The Troops have our front covered, let's guard their backs!)
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To: tobyhill
In most cases, the police are secretaries who show up and take notes on crimes that have already happened. Car theft? Burglary? Mugging? They will write it up, but they won't get your stuff back. The police don't have an obligation to keep you safe, they don't have to prevent crime, and they are not reasonably expected to solve most crimes.

If people carried guns, and if self-defense were liberally interpreted, public safety would go up considerably, and bad guys would think twice about touching other people's property.

I see the police as not entirely useless, but nearly so. I would much rather have people known as "public secretaries" who could show up at fender benders and take notes for your insurance companies, and perform other low-grade tasks to benefit the public.

11 posted on 08/26/2012 5:39:51 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Roger Taney? Not a bad Chief Justice. John Roberts? A really awful Chief Justice.)
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To: Steamburg
The unions are just too slow to understand that they are of value to him for only about the next 71 days. He’s pretty sure he can BS them that long.

Two cases in point: the ICE union's reaction to DACA and the general Fed Employee union's reaction to the proposed and deferred .5% pay increase.
12 posted on 08/26/2012 5:51:04 AM PDT by tanknetter
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To: tobyhill

“...but police unions say it is simply a way to get out of collective bargaining with the men and women in blue.”

Well, not really. It’s just a pleasant result, actually. The notion that union busting is the primary reason is simply an example of the arrogance of unions, in general, in this age of the Libtard.


13 posted on 08/26/2012 5:51:04 AM PDT by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion. 01-20-2013: Change we can look forward to.)
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To: tobyhill
This is really interesting from the standpoint of fixing the public sector union problem...in most major cities...

Dissolve CITY services and transfer the responsibility to COUNTY services...

If Camden can do it, any city can do it...

14 posted on 08/26/2012 6:10:52 AM PDT by Popman (In a place you only dream of Where your soul is always free)
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To: tobyhill

Once a municipality covers half or more of an entire county, there’s no point in having both a PD and a county sheriff department. Lots of cities are figuring this out and they are gradually expanding the sheriff dept and freezing, shrinking, or doing away entirely with the bloated police departments.


15 posted on 08/26/2012 6:30:24 AM PDT by mamelukesabre
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To: ClearCase_guy

But if we get rid of the police, who’s going to shoot all the mean dogs?


16 posted on 08/26/2012 6:30:39 AM PDT by Terry Mross (To all my relatives and former friends: Do not contact me if you still love obama.)
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To: DugwayDuke
It will be a temporary improvement just until the unions get their hands on the new agency.

The answer to this can be found on a bottle of Prell Shampoo:

Lather, wash, rinse, REPEAT.
17 posted on 08/26/2012 7:06:24 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana ("I love to watch you talk talk talk, but I hate what I hear you say."-Del Shannon)
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To: ClearCase_guy

An interesting concept, if it could be workable. I’ll tell you up front I’m a policeman in Ohio. I recently quit my union because I was tired of the politics and favoritism towards democrat ideals. I now have to pay ‘fair share’ which is significantly less than union dues but I don’t like it.

One of the problems I see from my side of the fence is this. Cities like Camden and the one I work in, are liberal welfare towns. We operate at bare minimum staffing and have for years. Bare bones staffing means there is not alot of time to do proactive police work.

For instance. I go on calls and people complain about response time and follow up. I ask them “this city has 70,000 residents, how many police officers do you think are working the road right now?” Generally they say “20.” That seems to be the common guess. When I tell them “6, or if we’re lucky 7” they understand.

Here in Ohio we have concealed carry. I think it’s great but I don’t see any reduction in crime. We have block watches and again, no noticeable drop in crime. Burglars break in people’s houses in broad daylight. If the neighbors don’t notice anything, how will the police?

Who is going to pay the ‘public secretaries’ you mention? Just curious about that one. Who is going to volunteer to stay up all night to watch their neighborhoods when most crimes occur? How about in the daytime? Who is going to follow up on crimes in order to get property back? Does liberal self defense interpretation of gun laws mean that if someone sees a burglar at their neighbors house they can shoot them?

Alot of questions here. A better partnership between the citizens and the police would be beneficial, but making that happen is the problem.


18 posted on 08/26/2012 7:27:50 AM PDT by Cap'n Crunch (Rush Limbaugh, the Winston Churchill of our time)
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To: Popman
I grew up in a little town a few miles outside Camden. I left New Jersey when I went into the Army in 1971, and I've barely been back since, except to attend funerals.

When I tried out the new River Line in 2005, the downtown Camden I saw looked like Dresden after the war. Nothing stood but government buildings. I walked a few blocks near the county courthouse, pulling myself up to my full six-foot-two and put a mean expression on my face, "I'm bad! I'm bad!" I wasn't bad enough, and I skedaddled back to the light rail station. I must have stood out like the white grape in a bunch of purple grapes. Kids were sitting on the elevated platform dangling their legs over the lip into the right of way.

On the way back, the train had three cops and a dog, and were those passengers well behaved! "May I see your ticket please?" "Yes, sir, officer, sir." I couldn't keep a straight face, and the cop smiled at me. It reminded me of a Catholic girls' school with the cops as nuns carrying their yardsticks. Everybody sat straight up, hands folded, looking straight ahead.

I haven't been there since.

The single best fate for Camden would be for the state to disincorporate the town and put it under country control altogether.

19 posted on 08/26/2012 8:27:18 AM PDT by Publius (Leadership starts with getting off the couch.)
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To: tobyhill

Why that’s just a really good news story — I was expecting it to be bad. Turning policing over to a county sheriff style operation sounds like it will lead to economies of scale, greater span of jurisdiction, fewer communication, coordination, command, and control problems. And you get to bust a union to boot! An all around good story.


20 posted on 08/26/2012 8:41:16 AM PDT by ichabod1 (Spriiingtime for islam, and tyranny. Winter for US and frieeends. . .)
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To: tobyhill

“This is definitely a form of union-busting,” Camden Fraternal Order of Police President John Williamson told FoxNews.com.

&&&&
Meanwhile, the unions are all for municipality-busting. And they think you can get blood from a turnip.


21 posted on 08/26/2012 8:57:56 AM PDT by Bigg Red (Pray for our republic.)
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To: Cap'n Crunch

“A better partnership between the citizens and the police would be beneficial, but making that happen is the problem.”

Your comments are very reasonable. That said, for far too many years the cops have (at least where I live) have acted like a cadre of arrogant spoiled “children.” They feel no obligation to adhere themselves to the most basic laws they enforce on the rest of us. Too many of them make far too much money and yet they still get caught engaging in major crimes ( can you say drugs and weapons) both of which they steal from their own “evidence” lockers. They can’t (and don’t) make things safer for the citizens. Each year, while they make more money personally, their “leadership” cries that they have less money and therefore will be unable to do some of the things that they have done in the past. So at the end of the day on the whole, we could just let them all go, save the money and be pretty much as safe as we are with them.


22 posted on 08/26/2012 9:10:06 AM PDT by vette6387
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To: tobyhill

It would behoove the citizens of Camden to set up block watch programs as soon as possible.


23 posted on 08/26/2012 10:13:57 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy
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To: wita
<“but police unions say it is simply a way to get out of collective bargaining with the men and women in blue.

“This is definitely a form of union-busting,”

The taxpayers staged a walkout on them...

24 posted on 08/26/2012 11:52:21 AM PDT by glorgau
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To: vette6387

To some degree you are right. I know a traffic guy who would cite people for 5 over the limit but while driving through another city on his way home from work he got stopped several times for doing at least 20 over the limit. And had the nerve to complain about it. I routinely see guys who run traffic zipping all over town off duty. Hypocrisy doesn’t help us in the least.

Too many cities started hiring applicants who should never been allowed to be police officers. Giving criminals badges hasn’t worked real well. It is PC though.

Unions are a world of trouble all their own. Where I work there are more people (because of the union) flying desks inside than there are people working the road. Collusion in union contracts is also killing us. It’s all about the money and getting off the road to alot of cops.

The politicians are all too happy to let it slide as long as the FOP backs the administration. It’s sickening. I’m betting that the national FOP is going to back Obama this election.

The answer is making people accountable. Getting cops off cushy desk jobs and having their behinds on the road. Doing some real investigating into people padding their salaries and pensions. Getting rid of lazy problem cops that make everybody else look bad.


25 posted on 08/26/2012 12:46:55 PM PDT by Cap'n Crunch (Rush Limbaugh, the Winston Churchill of our time)
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To: Cap'n Crunch

Maybe you could help me. I am looking for some statistics or authority which would give the appropriate ratio of police to residents. My city and the neighboring city share a police force, with 12 full time police for a combined population of about 6,000.

I think we are overstaffed, but I want to be able to cite some reference to back that up. Suburban area, zero crime, which is a good thing but I think we are overpaying and could cut back without sacrificing safety.

Thanks and regards.


26 posted on 08/26/2012 2:13:59 PM PDT by ThirdMate
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To: ThirdMate

Check a website called citydata.com. They have the information you are looking for. They have stats and information for nearly every city in the country and stay up to date. Here is the stat for our police dept. staffing per 1,000 residents. What it doesn’t say is how many of us are actually working the road.

Officers per 1,000 residents here:
1.28

Ohio average:
2.10


27 posted on 08/27/2012 4:31:32 AM PDT by Cap'n Crunch (Rush Limbaugh, the Winston Churchill of our time)
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To: Popman

......Dissolve CITY services and transfer the responsibility to COUNTY services...

The elected official responsible for law enforcement is the High Sheriff. His deputies are out and about. T he cities have determined that they are better served with a police force. Camden is saying they are not better served and revert to letting the sheriff do his job within the city boundaries.

I would think this would save the city taxpayers from double paying for a certain layer of the dual law enforcement bureaucracies


28 posted on 08/27/2012 4:46:56 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Present failure and impending death yield irrational action))
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To: ThirdMate
Maybe you could help me. I am looking for some statistics or authority which would give the appropriate ratio of police to residents. My city and the neighboring city share a police force, with 12 full time police for a combined population of about 6,000.

Varies with the size of the city but the average seems to be 2 sworn officers per 1000 population. So you're not necessarily overstaffed.

If you have 12 officers then one or two are supervisors and allowing for vacations, sick days, and the rest that leaves you with probably 2 or 3 officers on duty at any one time. If you think that's overstaffing then talk to your city.

Stats

29 posted on 08/27/2012 4:54:24 AM PDT by Delhi Rebels (There was a row in Silver Street - the regiments was out.)
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To: Cap'n Crunch

Thanks, sounds like we are about right then.

Seems like they are bored, though. I came across one of them out of their patrol car hiding in the bushes with a radar gun, trying to catch speeders on a 20 mph residential street!

Freegards,
3/M


30 posted on 08/27/2012 8:01:00 AM PDT by ThirdMate
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To: Delhi Rebels

Thanks, that was just what I was looking for.

Freegards,
3/M


31 posted on 08/27/2012 8:11:14 AM PDT by ThirdMate
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To: tobyhill

The article notes further down, that 49% of the laid-off city officers will be hired as (non-union) county officers.


32 posted on 08/27/2012 8:24:15 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (A deep-fried storm is coming, Mr Obama.)
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To: ThirdMate

Your welcome. It could very well be boredom, although a lot of people call into our chief’s office complaining about speeders on residential streets, running stop signs, etc. and say we’re not doing anything about it so they’ll put a guy out there for a few days as a deterrent. Then again some guys like to run traffic and cite everything that moves. Not my cup of tea.

So, it’s kind of a two-edged sword. We’re damned if we do and damned if we don’t. What I don’t like is the hypocrisy. If we’re going to cite people for speeding, we better be obeying the speed limit ourselves. One of the reasons I quit running traffic was I got tired of pulling over cops or people with courtesy cards.

Running traffic is good for fishing, untold numbers of great arrests, etc. have been made on simple traffic stops. I got stopped in Texas for 5 over on the freeway. They were fishing for drugs. I did not get cited.

Anyway, be careful.


33 posted on 08/27/2012 9:10:20 AM PDT by Cap'n Crunch (Rush Limbaugh, the Winston Churchill of our time)
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