Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The NYPD Explains Why Their Bullets Wounded Nine People Yesterday (It's not their fault)
The Atlantic ^ | August 25, 2012 | Connor Simpson

Posted on 08/26/2012 6:32:13 AM PDT by Zakeet

It's official. The New York Police Department have admitted that all nine people wounded yesterday in the Empire State Building shootout were from bullets they fired at Jeffrey Johnson.

CNN's David Ariosto reports the NYPD said the two officers that confronted Johnson fired a total of 16 shots. "One officer shot nine while another one shot seven," they said. Police commissioner Ray Kelly explained the injured bystanders were hit by ricocheting bullets. The shots hit "flowerpots and other objects around, so ... their bullets fragmented and, in essence, that's what caused the wounds."

[Snip]

The next question the NYPD will have to answer is why the two officers needed to fire 16 bullets to take down one man who, as we can see in the video, was only a few feet away from them.

(Excerpt) Read more at theatlanticwire.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: New York
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; banglist; empirestateshooting; guns; newyork; nypdshooting; shooting
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-189 next last

Bloomberg: I Told You Guns Were Evil

1 posted on 08/26/2012 6:32:24 AM PDT by Zakeet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Zakeet; marktwain

Maybe Bloomie should take away the NYPD’s bullet launchers, and just give the cops two Tasers each instead.


2 posted on 08/26/2012 6:37:03 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

because they were using 9mm instead of the man stopper 45 auto.....1 hit would have put him down, and they could have stopped shooting


3 posted on 08/26/2012 6:38:13 AM PDT by The Wizard (Madam President is my President now and in the future)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

Keystone cops


4 posted on 08/26/2012 6:38:33 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (let me ABOs run loose, lew (or is that lou?))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

Nice shootin’ Elmer Fudd!


5 posted on 08/26/2012 6:40:16 AM PDT by DeepInTheHeartOfTexas
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee

Bloomie was bragging at the news briefing that NYC has the lowest crime rate of any big city....If the police shoot everyone, including law abiding citizens, that sends a strong message to the bad guys and holds crime down.
:)


6 posted on 08/26/2012 6:40:46 AM PDT by BilLies (FOX NEWS, Ass.Press ABCBSNBCNN, NYTimes, WaPOSt , etc., hates your Traditional American guts!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

If people were responsible for their own safety, we wouldn’t need so many of these idiots in authority over us.


7 posted on 08/26/2012 6:40:59 AM PDT by pallis
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet; Joe Brower
The .45-caliber pistol Johnson used carries eight bullets. Five of those were used to kill the victim, two were left in the chamber, and one was found unfired on the ground after the shootout.

Sure sounds like his pistol jammed to me, and he was trying to clear it when he was shot by police. Lucky for the cops and bystanders he wasn't carrying a Glock or similiar.

8 posted on 08/26/2012 6:41:35 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

“why the two officers needed to fire 16 bullets....”

BLOOMBERG’S ANSWER: The police had automatic assault pistols that fire themselves when pointed at a target. The police have no control over the pistols in their hands, the pistols fire themselves at any object within 50 yards of the end of the barrel. It is not the fault of the police, it is the fault of the pistols and the people that happened to be standing nearby and within the distance the pistols fire.

sarc off


9 posted on 08/26/2012 6:42:19 AM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

I would have thought that the NYPD had been taught never to fire your weapon if you didn’t know what was downrange but I guess I’m wrong. Silly me.


10 posted on 08/26/2012 6:42:26 AM PDT by KirbDog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee

That might have worked equally well here, with no bouncing ammo.


11 posted on 08/26/2012 6:43:08 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (let me ABOs run loose, lew (or is that lou?))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: The Wizard

They’d taken down even more civilians. This is NYC, not a normal place.


12 posted on 08/26/2012 6:44:54 AM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

Demonstrating again the liberal wisdom that gun bans keep the public safe and the police can protect us.


13 posted on 08/26/2012 6:45:01 AM PDT by Spok (Gun control means hitting the 'x' ring.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

Would a non cop be treated the same way in a similar situation? If not, why not?

IF cops are the only ones who are supposed to have guns, THEN they need to be held to a higher standard.

Sorry, those cops need to be on leave and possibly charged with reckless endangerment for blazing away in a crowd. And before one of the cops on this site rise to their defense about how hard it is, we have US Marines and Soldiers who have been court martialed and imprisoned for similar things.


14 posted on 08/26/2012 6:45:39 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

Looks like the NYPD needs to apply Sheriff Andy Taylor’s ‘Barney’ rule; that from now on all NYPD officers get issued only one bullet and they must carry it in their pocket. ;-)


15 posted on 08/26/2012 6:45:39 AM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: KirbDog

Flower pots were downrange. No bystander was struck by a direct shot from the officers. The problem was ammo that bounced off of them. Ceramic items can do that.


16 posted on 08/26/2012 6:45:57 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (let me ABOs run loose, lew (or is that lou?))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet
I watched the shooting video several times and wonder how so many people got injured when the police were shooting basically toward the street or down street at an angle...

I think the cops were simply shooting at him without aiming...the one cop on the left side nearest to the sidewalk seemed to be shooting at a very weird angle and was just spraying bullets...

I'm not necessarily blaming the cops as this scenario is a one in life time event... NYPD probably need to step up their training programs to include these situations...

17 posted on 08/26/2012 6:48:22 AM PDT by Popman (In a place you only dream of Where your soul is always free)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Popman

Wonder if the officers’ guns had laser dot range finders. This is one situation where that most definitely would have helped (even if nobody was directly beyond the target, bullets that have passed through the target are less likely to ricochet far than bullets that have utterly missed).


18 posted on 08/26/2012 6:50:23 AM PDT by HiTech RedNeck (let me ABOs run loose, lew (or is that lou?))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Travis McGee
... two were left in the chamber...

Assuming a 1911, this is a neat trick.

19 posted on 08/26/2012 6:56:03 AM PDT by depressed in 06 (6 November, 2012, the day our embarrassment is sent back to Kenya.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

Crappy training
+
Panic firing
+
12 pound triggers
=
9 wounded innocent bystanders


20 posted on 08/26/2012 6:56:53 AM PDT by servo1969
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

The cops had every right to shoot Johnson as soon as he turned his gun toward them.

The issue appears to be poor judgement akin WACO. Instead of following him and amassing overwhelming numbers, they chose to confront him on a crowed street. Their poor judgement and lack of situational awareness resulted in 9 innocent folks being shot.


21 posted on 08/26/2012 6:57:55 AM PDT by School of Rational Thought (Fun for women ages 21 through 35)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

sounds to me like the NY cops need to spend a great deal more time in the gun range so that perhaps they can hit what they aim at - also called “gun control”.


22 posted on 08/26/2012 7:01:53 AM PDT by WorkerbeeCitizen (we are so screwed - ^_^)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HiTech RedNeck
I heard that 3 bystanders were directly shot and the rest were injured from ricochets.

/johnny

23 posted on 08/26/2012 7:01:57 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

It’s a very good thing that posters to this forum can hide behind their screen names because some of these posts are incredibly ignorant and embarassing. I’m speaking of the “firearms experts” of course.


24 posted on 08/26/2012 7:04:06 AM PDT by old school
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: The Wizard
While .45ACP has greater "takedown" power (owing to the impact of a significantly larger projectile), a single 9mm round is perfectly capable of taking down a bad guy - assuming it is properly placed. "Spray and pray" is not standard police procedure, anywhere.

The 9mm allows for both higher capacity and velocity, and also offers lower recoil, which reduces barrel rise and can improve accuracy in stressful situations. My guess is that the officers in question need not only more time at the range, but a refresher course in tactical defense.

25 posted on 08/26/2012 7:04:22 AM PDT by andy58-in-nh (America does not need to be organized: it needs to be liberated.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: depressed in 06

Maybe it was the 1911 Mark IIa, mod 4. You know, the double barrel model.


26 posted on 08/26/2012 7:04:41 AM PDT by VMI70
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

As a longtime (former) resident of Manhattan, I can tell you what most Americans don’t know: most NYPD cops are idiots, gorillas, meatheads, morons. The force has been utterly destroyed by affirmative action elimination of mental and physical standards for blacks, hispanics and women - which has accelerated under Bloomberg. After 9/11, people started wearing the now-ubiquitous “FDNY” and “NYPD” hats. The FDNY ones are well-deserved. The NYPD ones are not. I respect Ray Kelly and hope he runs for mayor against the dyke queen Christine Quinn, but his force is a mere shell of what it was under Giuliani.


27 posted on 08/26/2012 7:07:42 AM PDT by montag813
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HiTech RedNeck

Flower pots were downrange..”

So Bloomie will probably ban all flower pots now.


28 posted on 08/26/2012 7:08:36 AM PDT by Grams A (The Sun will rise in the East in the morning and God is still on his throne.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: HiTech RedNeck
Flower pots were downrange. No bystander was struck by a direct shot from the officers. The problem was ammo that bounced off of them. Ceramic items can do that.

You referring to the many projectiles that missed the target at 8 feet away???

I believe the reports are that at least a few of the casualties were direct hits...

29 posted on 08/26/2012 7:09:58 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet
one bullet...one perp


30 posted on 08/26/2012 7:10:33 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: depressed in 06
Assuming a 1911, this is a neat trick.

Eight round magazines are readily available for 1911 pattern .45s so, assuming you chamber one round and then top off the mag...

31 posted on 08/26/2012 7:11:16 AM PDT by Sirius Lee (Goode over evil. Voting for mitt or obie is like throwing your country away.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Popman
NYPD probably need to step up their training programs to include these situations...

Live shooter @ 34th and 5th is a nightmare tactical scenario for the defender(s), not sure how to run the scenario with a good outcome.

32 posted on 08/26/2012 7:11:40 AM PDT by Jim Noble (Diseases desperate grown are by desperate appliance relieved or not at all.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet
...................why the two officers needed to fire 16 bullets to take down one man who, as we can see in the video, was only a few feet away from them.....................in the open and stationary!
33 posted on 08/26/2012 7:12:18 AM PDT by varon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: depressed in 06

Haven’t you seen those double barrel 45’s?


34 posted on 08/26/2012 7:12:18 AM PDT by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

Afterwards, they went to the homes of the victims and shot their dogs.


35 posted on 08/26/2012 7:14:14 AM PDT by GreenHornet
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DeepInTheHeartOfTexas

36 posted on 08/26/2012 7:15:05 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Conservatism is not a matter of convenience.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: JRandomFreeper
I heard that 3 bystanders were directly shot and the rest were injured from ricochets.

Dad was NYPD He retired in ‘68 Once a year he went to the range on Rodman’s Neck and put a box or so of shells through his Model 10(nice soft .38 special bullets that did not ricochet). Had he not been just out of the Marines when he joined the force(1946), I a sure he would have been barely trained too

A friend of my sons joined NYPD around 10 years ago. And he came over to me to ask how to make various types of weapons safe as they never taught him anything other than how to fire the plastic gun he was issued. And barely knew anything about that

37 posted on 08/26/2012 7:16:18 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet
Make this standard issue for the NYPD to prevent future incidents:


38 posted on 08/26/2012 7:17:37 AM PDT by Flag_This (Real presidents don't bow.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ImJustAnotherOkie
Haven’t you seen those double barrel 45’s?

I have...pretty darn stupid...

39 posted on 08/26/2012 7:17:50 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: School of Rational Thought

You people are unbelievable! 9:OO AM on a Friday morning on one of the busiest streets in the world. Someone informs you that they just saw a man shoot someone around the corner. You approach, hesitantly, and the man turns on you with a gun. You’re initial reaction is to take cover and shoot to stop, but you don’t have time to take cover. You discharge 9 shots, your partner, 7, in about 1.2 seconds. You kill a murderer and bystanders are injured by ricochets off massive concrete planters that are there to prevent terrorist from driving truckloads of explosives into the entrance of the EMPIRE STATE BUILDING.

This is not the movies. Any of you ever been in that situation? I didn’t think so. As a retired member of the FINEST Police Department in the world, the NYPD, I’d like to inform you that the overwhelming majority of you would crap your pants in that situation. These officers, normally assigned to the 42nd Precinct in the South Bronx, have seen more and dealt with more than the average American would see if they lived 10 lifetimes. Did it go perfectly? No shootout is a textbook situation, but check the score; dead perp, no dead officers, no one seriously injured, in a possibly disastrous incident, in front of an entrance that sees over 10,000 people pass it every hour. Sit back in your comfy chair and dream that you could do a better job.


40 posted on 08/26/2012 7:19:28 AM PDT by cumbo78
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: HiTech RedNeck

Then maybe these LEOs should be required to practice their craft in the center of a circular concrete-walled room filled with flower pots and 1 target. No backstops.


41 posted on 08/26/2012 7:19:48 AM PDT by Gaffer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: Popman; Zakeet
I watched the shooting video several times and wonder how so many people got injured when the police were shooting basically toward the street or down street at an angle...

I watched the video as well...One cop was firing at the flower pots and oncoming vehicles in the street...

The other was shooting down the sidewalk towards the people running away and undoubtedly the ones coming toward him who were out of the range of the video...

42 posted on 08/26/2012 7:21:12 AM PDT by Iscool (You mess with me, you mess with the WHOLE trailerpark...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Vaquero

Definitely need to eat your Wheaties prior to wielding that baby.


43 posted on 08/26/2012 7:21:22 AM PDT by ImJustAnotherOkie (zerogottago)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: ImJustAnotherOkie

Yes...Jonesing for one REAL bad....however, my guess is ATF has yet to issue an opinion about it being legal... one trigger pull - two bullets is not kosher....my guess is the manufacturer is trying to work up a reliable two trigger model or just outright bribe the ATF....still not on the market as far as I can tell.


44 posted on 08/26/2012 7:21:48 AM PDT by Gaffer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: ImJustAnotherOkie

45 posted on 08/26/2012 7:22:13 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

A gentleman who identified himself as a ranking desk officer on the NYC transit police came into my store yesterday morning & told me this same story. He also told me that it was a distinct “probability” that the shooter took his own life with a shot to his own temple.
He also said that the squad that took him down was some sort of elite group whose name I did not recognize.
This guy seemed to really know his stuff & was very believable.
He also seemed to think that it was very poorly handled.


46 posted on 08/26/2012 7:22:43 AM PDT by certrtwngnut (It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the votes. (Josef Stalin))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Zakeet

i actually bought a pistol grip Mossberg pump back in 1986 at a gun store on Mott street downtown and walked back up to Union Square where i lived with it in a box cleared marked.

Is that not amazing?

oh yeah...and little rack of buck too


47 posted on 08/26/2012 7:23:28 AM PDT by wardaddy (this white hair don't cover up my redneck......)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: HiTech RedNeck

Prayers to the victims family of this nut job who didn’t have the brain power to deal with job loss. (Are there NO jobs in NYC?)
So, I guess that whoever made the flower pots is going to be in big trouble now with lawsuits? Or, most likely they were made in china and we all know they are one of our greatest friends so nobody can sue them. Right? Right? Too bad none of the civilians had their magic wonder woman bracelets on to deflect the shards headed their way.

Helping keep mankind warm for 65 years.


48 posted on 08/26/2012 7:25:21 AM PDT by rktman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: cumbo78

>You people are unbelievable! 9:OO AM on a Friday morning on one of the busiest streets in the world.<

Yessir. I visit NYC on an occasional basis. I cannot see how a police officer in that situation could guarantee no harm to bystanders whatsoever.


49 posted on 08/26/2012 7:25:39 AM PDT by Darnright ("I don't trust liberals, I trust conservatives." - Lucius Annaeus Seneca)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: ImJustAnotherOkie

This one?

http://www.dudeiwantthat.com/gear/weapons/double-barrel-pistol.asp


50 posted on 08/26/2012 7:26:05 AM PDT by matthew fuller (They'll have to pry my gun, my bible, and my chikin from my cold dead fingers.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-150151-189 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson