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Fact Check: Social Security ordered 174,000 rounds of bullets, but not to quell civil unrest
The Florida Times-Union ^ | August 26, 2012 | Carole Fader

Posted on 08/26/2012 8:56:49 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

Times-Union readers want to know:

Is it true, as an email says, that the Social Security Administration is buying 174,000 rounds of hollow point bullets to prepare for civil unrest?

As strange as it might seem — as in what does the Social Security Administration need with hollow point bullets? — this is mainly true, at least the part about the bullets.

The email talks of a request by the SSA to buy 174,000 rounds of “.357 Sig 125 grain bonded jacketed hollow point pistol ammunition.”

The email gets its info from the website Infowars.com, which published several stories about the request and referred to 41 sites across the country where the bullets would be sent (Jacksonville not among them). The email draws the conclusion that the bullets were for potential civil unrest:

“Social Security welfare is estimated to keep around 40 percent of senior citizens out of poverty. Should the tap run dry in the aftermath of an economic collapse, which the Federal Reserve has already told top banks to prepare for, domestic disorder could ensue if people are refused their benefits.”

The request for the bullets was real, obtained through the Federal Business Opportunities website, which all federal agencies use to post open procurements. You can see the request at tinyurl.com/9shjcvl.

After the Infowars.com stories were picked up by the Drudge Report and other such arenas, the questions caused the SSA to issue a statement that the ammunition would be used by field locations of the Office of Investigations, part of the Office of the Inspector General....

(Excerpt) Read more at jacksonville.com ...


TOPICS: Government
KEYWORDS: bhofascism; obama; socialsecurity
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Explain the huge quantity and the number of agencies doing this.
1 posted on 08/26/2012 8:57:04 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Hubby thinks it is to keep it out of the hands of civilians.


2 posted on 08/26/2012 9:05:58 PM PDT by Cowgirl of Justice
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To: Cowgirl of Justice

Same as the freeze dried food that was back ordered as a result of fulfilling a huge govt order.


3 posted on 08/26/2012 9:07:32 PM PDT by Cowgirl of Justice
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The notice also explained that the type of ammunition — hollow point bullets that expand as they enter the body, causing maximum damage — are standard issue to many law enforcement agencies and are used in training sessions, including the Federal Law Enforcement Training Center near Brunswick, Ga.

And the advantage of training with hollow point bullets would be ... ???

4 posted on 08/26/2012 9:08:35 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Roger Taney? Not a bad Chief Justice. John Roberts? A really awful Chief Justice.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

More importantly, WHY does the Social Security Administration NEED armed “Special Agents”. SS fraud is a Federal crime, and the appropriate people are the FBI. . .


5 posted on 08/26/2012 9:09:14 PM PDT by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border. I **DARE** you to cross it. . . .)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

They should get the same beanbag “gauge” used by the boarder patrol


6 posted on 08/26/2012 9:25:26 PM PDT by Steven Tyler
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

All government should be restricted to ball or flatnosed ammo.

Truly. I should start a petition making it so.


7 posted on 08/26/2012 9:31:09 PM PDT by Dogbert41 ("...The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God" Zech. 12:5)
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To: Cowgirl of Justice
Hubby thinks it is to keep it out of the hands of civilians. Same as the freeze dried food that was back ordered as a result of fulfilling a huge govt order.

Pretty good! Best one yet, in fact.

8 posted on 08/26/2012 9:37:23 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

600 rounds per each of the 295 “officers”? Is that the common issue to police?

Why does SSA need their own officers anyway to protect SSA?

It all still sounds fishy to me.


9 posted on 08/26/2012 9:38:51 PM PDT by Sequoyah101 (Half the people are below average, they voted for oblabla.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

It is done to make ammo out of the price range of ordinary folk. Supply and demand.


10 posted on 08/26/2012 9:40:27 PM PDT by Jet Jaguar
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To: Dogbert41

If it was .357 mag, I’d wonder why they didn’t order .38 wadcutters to train with. But .357 SIG is different stuff. Just traded my .357 SIG for a Glock. Which (if Big Brother is snooping) immediately was stolen and I have no idea where it is any longer. Matter of fact, well, all my guns must have been stolen too. Got to get around to reporting that, yessir.

Maybe they plan to pay SS recipients with bullets instead of dollars? No, not out of the barrel! LOL


11 posted on 08/26/2012 9:41:24 PM PDT by RonInNaples
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To: Cowgirl of Justice

Are Red Dawn Civilians allowed to buy hollow point pistol ammo?


12 posted on 08/26/2012 9:42:52 PM PDT by Graewoulf ((Traitor John Roberts' Obama"care" violates Sherman Anti-Trust Law, AND the U.S. Constitution.))
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Comment #13 Removed by Moderator

To: Salgak

Almost every federal agency, large and small, now has it’s own police force, investigators, security force, para-military/SWAT forces and more.


14 posted on 08/26/2012 9:48:55 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
"And the advantage of training with hollow point bullets would be ... ???'

Professionals practice with the ammo they use 'for real'.

Lots easier to do that even if you aren't a real 'gunslinger', but the taxpayers are paying the ammo bill.

15 posted on 08/26/2012 9:54:11 PM PDT by LegendHasIt
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Exactly. And the question is, why ? We’ve already heard about the Department of Education SWAT team. . .

Excuse me ???

If you’re not a law enforcement agency, YOU DON’T NEED A POLICE FORCE. . . .


16 posted on 08/26/2012 9:55:12 PM PDT by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border. I **DARE** you to cross it. . . .)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
I understand your concern, but a 174,000 is a drop in the bucket compared to the 1.2 billion bullets supposedly ordered by the Department of Homeland Security.

I reload my own cartridges. The wife and I went through around 30,000 primers in just 2008 - 2010... more for entertainment value than actual training. We have slowed down a bit since then. I will admit that we are probably on someones watch list after buying so many primers. We hardly ever go to the range without shooting at least a couple hundred rounds of pistol ammo which is only around $10 worth when you cast your own bullets and reuse your brass.

My wife tends to go through a lot of .30 Carbine. We never seem to have enough of those little 20rd magazines loaded up ahead of time. It seems like 20 or so should be enough but... it depends largely on how long it takes for her trigger finger to get tired.

We can even go through a lot of surplus 7.62x54R in our Mosin Nagants. You can still get them for less than 18 cents a round when you buy a crate at a time... they are best bang for your buck out there! they have nearly the same power as a 30.06 for a quarter of the price. If she is using too much ammo... I coax her over to the rifle range and get her started with one of the Mosin Nagants. She weighs only a hundred pounds so they tend to wear her out fairly quickly. Even with a rubber recoil pad and a padded shooting vest; she is usually ready to pack it in after two or three dozen rounds especially since the hike down to the target and back is further.

When two fun loving grandparents can go through a fifth as much ammo as an entire government agency order in just a couple of years... I am just not that worried.

17 posted on 08/26/2012 9:58:20 PM PDT by fireman15 (Check your facts before making ignorant statements.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
And the advantage of training with hollow point bullets would be ... ???

If it was a rifle ammo I would say that a different round hits a different spot at the target. You want to zero the scope with the round that you intend to use the most, and write down the corrections for other rounds that you have.

However handguns are far less accurate. I doubt that there is much difference between different rounds, considering that, reportedly, an average LEO cannot reliably hit a threat from five yards away. 1 MOA difference does not matter when the operator's error is in excess of 600 MOA.

I heard that the government claims lower cost, since hollow points are not entirely lead. However the cheapest rounds on the market are FMJ; hollow points are far more expensive, probably due to often complicated construction of the bullet.

Yet another theory says that the government does not want to bother with maintaining two stocks of ammo. That makes some sense; in my personal opinion that's the real reason.

However it is blatantly obvious to any observer that the country is quickly running out of other people's money. As soon as that happens all the ghettos go up in flames - and the suburbs won't be far behind. This Colossus has very fragile legs; just like the Shuttle, it works fine only when every piece of it is operating properly.

18 posted on 08/26/2012 10:01:47 PM PDT by Greysard
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To: RonInNaples

.357 Sig really gaining in popularity in law enforcement. Personally, I don’t like either .357 becuase they are so loud.

Imagine retreating to a tiled bathroom when bad guys invade, and you have a .357. You’ll end up with a bell going off in your head and blood coming out your ears.

One of my favorites is my handloaded .40 lights. So pleasant to shoot that you cannot shoot enough. But that’s just for fun and play.


19 posted on 08/26/2012 10:08:25 PM PDT by Dogbert41 ("...The people of Jerusalem are strong, because the Lord Almighty is their God" Zech. 12:5)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; oldteen; jaycee; MEG33; left that other site; JustAmy; ConorMacNessa; Diver Dave
From the article - "Social Security Welfare???????
What is THAT about?
I gave money to the Government,
from every single paycheck for over 40 years.
I did not get one cent of interest on that money.
It was mine, for the government to hold,
and USE as they saw fit,
and then return in increments,
when I was 65.

NOW, I am being called 'entitled'
and 'on government welfare'?

I hate what has happened to our Country
And, that the MSM is endorsing it!

20 posted on 08/26/2012 10:09:33 PM PDT by yorkie
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Maybe heading to Chicago?


21 posted on 08/26/2012 10:18:04 PM PDT by Mark (Don't argue with my posts. I typed while under sniper fire.)
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To: Greysard
However handguns are far less accurate. I doubt that there is much difference between different rounds, considering that, reportedly, an average LEO cannot reliably hit a threat from five yards away. 1 MOA difference does not matter when the operator's error is in excess of 600 MOA.

This is not entirely true.

The bullet weight has a substantial relationship to point of impact and sight adjustment. Essentially, the pistol is recoiling and the muzzle is rising while the bullet is still in the gun. Heavier bullets will shoot to a higher point of impact.

Practice should always be with the same weight bullets as service rounds.

22 posted on 08/26/2012 10:30:28 PM PDT by CurlyDave
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Bullets are those little thingies that fly through the air until they impact upon a target or fall to the ground.

Bullets are to cartridges as four is to bread, as cement is to concrete, ete.

When will they ever learn?

23 posted on 08/26/2012 10:39:40 PM PDT by Buffalo Head (Illigitimi non carborundum)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

America has the largest per capita of LEOs in the world. But those in the District of Criminals still don’t think it’s enough.


24 posted on 08/26/2012 10:41:22 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine!)
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To: Buffalo Head

They don’t want to learn. These are the same people who think meat, milk, eggs and butter come from the supermarket.


25 posted on 08/26/2012 10:42:25 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: Sequoyah101

I could and have in fact shot 600 rounds up in the course of a few hours. it goes fast with high cap magazines. it may be fishy though. IDK.


26 posted on 08/26/2012 10:54:01 PM PDT by RC one
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To: fireman15

Your wife not only shoots..but has her own Mosin??

That is badass.


27 posted on 08/26/2012 10:55:06 PM PDT by Vigilantcitizen (Dave Mustaine for president.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Too bad they can’t do what the rest of us do: Practice with cheaper Full Metal Jacket bullets, and save a small number of hollow points for social occasions, and routine function and rotation shoots to retain confidence in mechanical function.

Of course, since it is just the taxpayer’s money, who cares, right?.


28 posted on 08/26/2012 11:17:12 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: Vigilantcitizen

Doesn’t EVERYONE have a Mosin ?? And if not, why not ?? (grin)


29 posted on 08/26/2012 11:36:56 PM PDT by Salgak (Acme Lasers presents: The Energizer Border. I **DARE** you to cross it. . . .)
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To: Salgak

EVERYONE should have at least one.


30 posted on 08/27/2012 12:10:52 AM PDT by Vigilantcitizen (Dave Mustaine for president.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I just posted an fbo request for quarter million rounds from the California USDA Forestry service.


31 posted on 08/27/2012 1:20:41 AM PDT by autumnraine (America how long will you be so deaf and dumb to the tumbril wheels carrying you to the guillotine?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I just posted an fbo request for quarter million rounds from the California USDA Forestry service.

Oh, and it specified they needed them within 30 days.


32 posted on 08/27/2012 1:21:07 AM PDT by autumnraine (America how long will you be so deaf and dumb to the tumbril wheels carrying you to the guillotine?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Aren’t hollow points banned by the Geneva convention?

Oh, but that’s only against our enemies. Against right wing Christian birthers and Obama haters, they are ok.


33 posted on 08/27/2012 1:30:54 AM PDT by Bon mots (When seconds count, the police are just minutes away...)
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To: Bon mots

police use hollow points to assassinate perps with knives and guns in midtown

lots of collateral wounded

guess they don’t know how to tase


34 posted on 08/27/2012 2:02:16 AM PDT by FlyingEagle
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Add that to NOAA 46,000 rounds of hollow point. Tell me why NOAA needs hollow points? Is the Dept of Homeland Security bound to a Constitutional oath? We have a major problem, and ammo shortages.


35 posted on 08/27/2012 2:34:57 AM PDT by momincombatboots (Back to West by G-d Virginia. 2016 starts today! Walker, Issa, Rubio,)
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To: CurlyDave; Greysard
Practice should always be with the same weight bullets as service rounds.

I would say not only weight. In addition to point of impact, there is muzzle blast, recoil, and in particular, possible malfunctions, - all different with different ammo.

36 posted on 08/27/2012 2:35:44 AM PDT by expat1000
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To: fireman15

My son bought a Mosin and it doesn’t extract the spent bullet. Granted we have only bought one box of ammo and it sometimes would extract but more often would not. Is it a common problem with the Mosin?


37 posted on 08/27/2012 2:43:10 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you really want to annoy someone, point out something obvious that they are trying hard to ignore)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
The Day Of Economic Reckoning Is Near: Economics / Great Depression II ties it all together into a coherent theory. Scary stuff.
38 posted on 08/27/2012 2:49:14 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: ClearCase_guy
And the advantage of training with hollow point bullets would be ... ???

It makes it easier for our government agents to tell which end of the bullet to put into the gun first?

39 posted on 08/27/2012 2:51:32 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: yorkie
I gave money to the Government, from every single paycheck for over 40 years. I did not get one cent of interest on that money. It was mine, for the government to hold, and USE as they saw fit, and then return in increments, when I was 65.

Sorry, Yorkie. You've been hornswoggled. Three Supreme Court cases in 1937 found the SS program to be funded by taxes and it is NOT an insurance plan. See The Helvering vs. Davis, Steward Machine Co. vs. Davis, and Carmichael vs. Southern Coal & Coke and Gulf States Paper. You pays your taxes and takes your chances. It has been unethical of the government to portray the program as an old age insurance program, but you can't sue Congress for their lies due to their immunity.

40 posted on 08/27/2012 3:12:55 AM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: Cowgirl of Justice

Perhaps I over-simplify but if, after the first two years of the current regime, civilians don’t already each have thousands of rounds of ammunition, those folks are not paying attention


41 posted on 08/27/2012 3:39:01 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Legalize Freedom!!)
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To: Dogbert41

The pistol I carry daily on the ranch is a Browning Hi-Power chambered in 357 SIG and it’s one of the most accurate pistols I’ve ever shot. I must agree they are loud but not as loud as what I was carring, a Ruger Blackhawk in 30 Carbine pushing 85 grain bullets at close to 2000 fps is an ear ringer. Now before anybody jumps up an says Browning doesn’t chamber the Hi-Power in 357 SIG and they would be correct, this one started as a new Hi-Power chambered in 40. I sent it to Novak’s and had the comp carry package done plus had the 357 SIG barrel fitted.


42 posted on 08/27/2012 3:41:23 AM PDT by Dusty Road
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Maybe the term “long term care” for old folks is about to be redefined.


43 posted on 08/27/2012 4:19:54 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

There has to be a way to search the procurement database to see if this has been done in previous years. Admittedly I haven’t looked yet.


44 posted on 08/27/2012 4:29:28 AM PDT by SueRae (See it? Hell, I can TASTE November from my house!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

If it is to quell civil unrest and the SSA enforcement folks shoot as well as the NYPD did at the Empire State Building shooter, then 174k rounds of ammo MIGHT wound say 5800 rioters or less.


45 posted on 08/27/2012 4:31:52 AM PDT by msrngtp2002 (Just my opinion.)
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To: Sequoyah101
600 rounds per each of the 295 “officers”?

OMG! It's an arsenal. no one needs that much ammo unless they are crazy and bent on killing people

46 posted on 08/27/2012 5:04:50 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: Dogbert41
All government should be restricted to ball or flatnosed ammo

and 10 round magazines

47 posted on 08/27/2012 5:06:48 AM PDT by paul51 (11 September 2001 - Never forget)
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To: paul51
OMG! It's an arsenal. no one needs that much ammo unless they are crazy and bent on killing people
Oh, I don't know... At about 580 rounds per person -- you can figure...
Carry load (normal & reasonable):
- 12 duty rounds per two spare mags: 24 rounds
- 12 duty rounds +1 in the gun: 13 rounds
Training Load: - Two 250 round training days: 500 rounds
Qualification: - One qualification shoot: 50 +/- rounds

Total: 587 rounds per person?

Speaking from personal experience with normal line officers (not special units or anything), that seems cutting it close to me -- if you are budgeting duty & training ammo. Normally, you would have some extra for remedial training and extra practice for those who need it (and there are always a few who do).

The only thing unusual about this was that I was not aware that the SSA had an enforcement arm. I would have thought they used US Marshall's or Feebs or whoever...

48 posted on 08/27/2012 6:10:35 AM PDT by jaydee770
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Yep, there’s nothing as terrifying as an army carrying only pistols. The fact that they can be shot and killed at 100-yards and better by opponents with rifles is irrelevant. As long as the pistol-carrying army has ten trillion rounds to engage an enemy at 300-yards, they are invulnerable Rambos.

Battlefield souvenirs, anyone?


49 posted on 08/27/2012 6:11:18 AM PDT by sergeantdave
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To: jaydee770; paul51

I think paul51 was being sarcastic, repeating what liberals say about ordinary Americans having 600 rounds of ammunition.


50 posted on 08/27/2012 6:12:45 AM PDT by DaveInDallas
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