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Gun Makers May Leave if N.Y. and Conn. Pass Microstamping Laws
Gun Owners of America ^ | 27 August 2012 | NA

Posted on 08/27/2012 9:50:41 PM PDT by neverdem

Executives of the historic firearms companies on America's East Coast may not all be young men, but they might want to follow Horace Greeley's advice, anyway. They may want to go west if legislators pass laws that would limit their sales while driving up their costs.

That could be the fate of the Remington Arms Company plant in Ilion, New York, the economic lifeblood of the small New York town lying halfway between Albany and Syracuse. The company's roots in the town go back nearly 200 years, since Eliphalet Remington, Jr. forged his first rifle barrel there. Today the company employs about 1,000 workers in a town with a population of just over 8,000. But the company has suggested, none too subtly, that it may move its Ilion plant to another state if Gov. Andrew Cuomo and the state's lawmakers enact gun legislation now under consideration in Albany.

The proposals, the New York Times reported Friday, include a limit in firearms sales of no more than one per month to any one person and a background check of anyone purchasing ammunition. Most troubling to the manufacturers, however, is a plan to require, for the purpose of ballistics identification, the microstamping of every semiautomatic pistol sold in the state. The law would require manufacturers to laser-engrave the gun's make, model, and serial number on the firing pin of each handgun so the information is imprinted on the cartridge casing when the gun is fired. Gun makers say the method is flawed, could easily be defeated, and would require a retooling of the industry that would add what Remington executive Stephen P. Jackson, Jr. called "astronomical sums" to the cost of manufacturing.

"Mandating [f]irearms microstamping will restrict the ability of Remington to expand business in the Empire State," Jackson, the company's chief strategy and acquisition integration officer, wrote in a March 16 letter to Governor Cuomo. "Worse yet, Remington could be forced to reconsider its commitment to the New York market altogether rather than spend the astronomical sums of money needed to completely reconfigure our manufacturing and assembly processes. This would directly impact law enforcement, firearms retailers and consumers throughout New York — if not the entire country.

"Of course, passage of microstamping would also hurt New York taxpayers, who would be forced to foot the bill for expensive scanning electron microscopes and software necessary to read the firearms make, model and serial number," Jackson added. "Hurting businesses and tax payers to support a concept that has been proven flawed is ill-conceived."

The firearms industry in Connecticut succeeded in its efforts to defeat similar legislation when it was proposed in that state in 2009. Manufacturers, lawyers, and union and trade group representatives all took aim at the proposed microstamping mandate in a press conference
in March of that year, warning that the bill could threaten the livelihood of some 1,750 workers employed by the gunmakers.

\"This feel-good legislation will do more harm than good," said Carlton Chen, vice president and general counsel with Colt's Manufacturing Company. "Let us not make a mistake, with the unintended consequences of driving businesses and jobs out of Connecticut." Industry spokesmen also cited studies they said proved that the microstamping technology is unreliable as well as costly.

"Further studies are needed on the durability of microstamping marks under various firing conditions and their susceptibility to tampering, as well as on the cost impact for manufacturers and consumers," according to a report from the National Academy of Sciences, one of two studies cited by the firearms manufacturers and supporters. Another, done at the University of California at Davis, found the technology "flawed" and not suited to all guns and ammunition. "Further testing, analysis and evaluation is required," the researchers concluded.

The studies "further validate our longstanding concerns that this technology is unreliable, that it simply does not work as advertised and can and will be easily defeated by criminals in seconds using common household tools," said Lawrence Keane of the National Shooting Sports Foundation.

Gun makers may be looking west at opportunities in Montana, South Dakota, and Idaho, or South to Alabama, all states that are said to be making efforts to persuade gun manufacturers in the East and Midwest to relocate or expand operations in environments where there are fewer gun laws and a more gun-friendly culture. That possibility is being taken seriously in the Mohawk Valley of New York, an area that has lost 11,000 manufacturing jobs since 1990, the Times reported. Ilion is one town in the valley that has seen job growth as Remington has increased production there.

If Remington goes away, "Ilion goes away," said Rusty Brown, a furnace technician at the plant. Diana Bower, who runs a small engineering business with her husband, told the Times that backers of the proposed gun laws don't really understand what that could mean to the town.

"If you don't live here and work here," she said, "you really don't know what it means to say, 'Pass this,' or, 'Pass that.'" But Gov. Cuomo, in an apparent reference to recent deadly shooting sprees in Colorado and Wisconsin, spoke of "current events that have really shaped the psyche of this state." While the state already has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the nation, "I think there's an appetite for reform, and I think that's a good thing," Cuomo said.

"I think it's ridiculous for [Remington] to argue that they would leave New York," said Jackie Hilly, executive director of New Yorkers Against Gun Violence, which supports a microstamping requirement. "Look, frankly, if we really want to keep jobs in New York, let's invest more money in yogurt," she added, referring to one of the state's growing industries.

That argument does not go down well with state Senator James L. Seward, a Republican whose district includes Ilion. Passing new gun laws "would send a bad signal to this gun manufacturer that they're in a state that's hostile to gun ownership and gun manufacturing," he said.

"It may make people feel good to think they've done something," Seward said, "but at the end of the day, the criminal element and those that go out and do these horrible things, they're going to get their weapons. And the cost could be great for a community like Ilion."




TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; Politics/Elections; US: New York
KEYWORDS: banglist; microstamping
Now I wouldn't be surprised if the gun grabbers wanted microstamping on long guns, but does Remington make any handguns?
1 posted on 08/27/2012 9:50:52 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

http://www.1911r1.com/


2 posted on 08/27/2012 9:53:11 PM PDT by TheZMan (Obama is without a doubt the worst President ever elected to these United States)
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To: neverdem
...does Remington make any handguns?



I know the previous poster already answered that, but I'm a sucker for 1911 pics, sooo yeah :)
3 posted on 08/27/2012 10:02:43 PM PDT by verum ago (A good physical therapist is half friend, half sadist.)
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To: neverdem

Why would these firms wait? They know that more restrictive state laws are just a matter of time in their current locations.


4 posted on 08/27/2012 10:08:07 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: neverdem
I love this type of thing. I wish more businesses would just come out and say, “You want it, you got it!”. I would call a press conference and tell the public why they will lose their tax base and the jobs, and then move to a right to work state with no income taxes that appreciates the jobs.(ahhhh,.....Texas) The next time, they might think before they vote.
How many minimum wage jobs have been lost when the wage was raised? How many people move somewhere else when you raise taxes? There needs to be more public outcry when this stuff happens instead of going quietly into the good night.

Good for them.

5 posted on 08/27/2012 10:09:26 PM PDT by chuckles
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To: neverdem
But the company has suggested, none too subtly, that it may move its Ilion plant to another state if Gov. Andrew Cuomo and the state's lawmakers enact gun legislation now under consideration in Albany.

Don't suggest, don't warn, just do. If the trend on issues they care about is in the wrong direction, convincing the current crop of tyrants does nothing, because in a year or two, you get new tyrants and have to go through it all over again. Add that to the ludicrous income tax laws in NY, and I can't imagine why they're still there in the first place.

6 posted on 08/27/2012 10:11:29 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: neverdem

I do not understand why these companies have stuck around these leftist states so long


7 posted on 08/27/2012 10:14:01 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: TheZMan; verum ago

Thank you both for the prompt replies.


8 posted on 08/27/2012 10:18:27 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: cyborg; Clemenza; Cacique; NYCVirago; The Mayor; Darksheare; hellinahandcart; Chode; ...
Letter: Keep McDonald doing good work (Sen. McDonald R. voted for gay marriage in NY)

FReepmail me if you want on or off my New York ping list.

9 posted on 08/27/2012 10:25:21 PM PDT by neverdem (Xin loi minh oi)
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To: neverdem

Microstamping has what, ~60% legibility rate on cheap ammo assuming that it isn’t lacquered or that the stamp isn’t worn or that some thug (the intended target of the legislation) hasn’t taken 30 seconds to use a 50¢ nail file and remove the stamp? Or course, microstamping doesn’t matter if a criminal uses a brass catcher, or polices his brass, or uses a revolver.

And then, if the cops get a match it just indicates the gun used, not the person using it.

...Unless some thug goes and picks up some brass at range and scatters it a crime scene to frame someone.

And according to the ATF, only 19% of the guns used by felons were acquired by gun show, pawn shop or retailer, meaning most of the guns felons use, if microstamped, will point to the rightful owner from whom the thing was stolen.

I’d write a coherent 500 word rant, but this will have to do for the night.

...


10 posted on 08/27/2012 10:28:03 PM PDT by verum ago (Be a bastard, and Karma'll be a bitch.)
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To: neverdem
One of the things that drives me crazy is that the lib Donkeys live in this little bubble where their actions have no consequences. In the real world actions = reactions, but not in the static bubble where libs live.

Bluntly, libs don't care if their actions hurt businesses or cause people to lose their jobs or whether the laws they write can even be achieved or if these businesses relocate out of state.

In 2006, the Donkeys in the IL legislature tried to ramrods assault weapons legislation through the House and Senate. The five major gun manufacturers in IL said if this legislation passed, they would move out of state. Those IL manufacturers were: Springfield Armory and ArmaLite, Inc. of Geneseo, Lewis Machine & Tool of Moline, Les Baer Custom, Inc. of Hillsdale, and Rock River Arms Inc. of Colona. [Les Baer Custom did move to LeClaire, IA within a year of this insanity being considered by the legislature. Their new facility opened in the Fall of 2007.]

The legislation died as a result of the combined actions of the NRA, IL State Rifle Assn, Republicans, downstate Democrats, and a whole bunch of p.o.’ed citizen shooters. Since this time the morons in the legislature have considered anti-gun legislation the kiss of death to their political careers. However, eternal vigilance remains the cost of freedom.

11 posted on 08/27/2012 10:33:36 PM PDT by MasterGunner01
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To: neverdem

Why wait? Leave now!!!!


12 posted on 08/27/2012 10:42:37 PM PDT by Forrestfire (("To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society." Theodore Roosevelt))
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To: chuckles

If they came to Texas, we probably have enough gun lovers to buy all the guns. Plus, we have low taxes and it’s a right to work state. Come on down.


13 posted on 08/27/2012 11:14:43 PM PDT by Marcella (Conservatism is dead. PREPARE)
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To: neverdem

The management of Remington should announce loudly and publicly that if the New York legislature passes this law the company will no longer sell or service any firearm to any Government entity of the State of New York.

They should also announce same policy regarding their ammunition.


14 posted on 08/27/2012 11:21:11 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: GeronL

Remington’s R&D facility is already located here in Elizabethtown, KY. I’d love to see them move one of their two firearms manufacturing plants here (the other is located in the western part of Kentucky, near Mayfield, and their ammo and component plant is in Arkansas).


15 posted on 08/27/2012 11:30:34 PM PDT by Stonewall Jackson ("I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy.")
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To: neverdem
The problem is this;,P. No matter where a gun manufacturer is based,, the gubmint will interfere,,,,,, until we vote in the right politicians. This election is so importment, we MUST vote the libs out.

GOA has made mistakes,,,, trust me ,,,,I make my living by shooting,,,, sometimes Chris Starke, GOA founder goes overboard and wishes to be someone he's not. "We the people" are the ONLY identity that can make ANY difference. If the ballot box doesn't work than the cartridge box will,,,, IF the true citizens wish for the "CONSTITUTION" to work correctly.

16 posted on 08/27/2012 11:37:02 PM PDT by progunner (no compromise)
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To: neverdem

all industries should leave rat states and go somewhere where they would be appreciated.

Everybody needs to go to Texas, AZ and the red states and let the the rats sink in their swamp of scum.

Blessings, bobo


17 posted on 08/27/2012 11:55:40 PM PDT by bobo1
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To: neverdem

It’s sad that these stupid ideas have to be defeated by threatening to leave the state...

They ought to be defeated by common sense, but this is the world we live in...


18 posted on 08/28/2012 12:10:37 AM PDT by ltc8k6
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To: neverdem

four swipes with a fine diamond fingernail file across the face of the firing pin and no microstamp.

Yea, that’s a real stupid idea.


19 posted on 08/28/2012 1:19:35 AM PDT by American in Israel (A wise man's heart directs him to the right, but the foolish mans heart directs him toward the left.)
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To: verum ago

I took mine to the range Friday and put 100 rds through it. I like it but one thing Remington didn’t do is polish the barrels feed ramp. I did it myself but shouldn’t have had to.


20 posted on 08/28/2012 1:43:49 AM PDT by Gaffer
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I wonder if the same two NY Senate Republican backstabbers that voted for homosexual marriage plan to sign off on the stamping.


21 posted on 08/28/2012 1:52:14 AM PDT by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: neverdem
Remington could be forced to reconsider its commitment to the New York market altogether rather than spend the astronomical sums of money needed to completely reconfigure our manufacturing and assembly processes.

Which is exactly the intent of the legislation...

22 posted on 08/28/2012 2:12:46 AM PDT by bill1952 (Choice is an illusion created between those with power - and those without)
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To: neverdem

Here is the true story.
Some guy got the idea for “micro stamping bullets.”

He is now trying to create a market for his product.


23 posted on 08/28/2012 3:12:26 AM PDT by hadaclueonce (you are paying 12% more for fuel because of Ethanol. Smile big Corn Lobby,)
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To: hadaclueonce
"let's invest more money in yogurt"

When you're dealing with people like this, you may as well just pack it all up and leave the state.

24 posted on 08/28/2012 3:28:57 AM PDT by radioone ( Main Stream Media. The Government built that.)
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To: verum ago

They recently reintroduced a version of a 1911 as a way to remember their past contributions to WW2 equipment efforts. It has received mixed reviews.


25 posted on 08/28/2012 4:05:55 AM PDT by MachIV
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To: bobo1

I agree. Caterpillar has basically threatened to leave Illinois. Colt just built a new facility in Florida.


26 posted on 08/28/2012 4:07:45 AM PDT by MachIV
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To: Stonewall Jackson

I did not know they had a facility in Kentucky. I’m in Louisville. Are they offering plant tours?


27 posted on 08/28/2012 4:09:24 AM PDT by MachIV
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To: Lurker
The management of Remington should announce loudly and publicly that if the New York legislature passes this law the company will no longer sell or service any firearm to any Government entity of the State of New York.

Only after the special charter Remington train crosses the NY state border, loaded with all their equipment and employees bound for a friendly state.

Same with all the NE gun mfrs. Given the record sales now is the time.

Imagine gun trains making whistle stop speeches along the way. With the right PR people this could create a lasting powerful image, America's new refugees.

They want yogurt, let them have yogurt!

Frankly, this should have been done during the Clinton administration.

28 posted on 08/28/2012 4:28:05 AM PDT by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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Oh, and lest we forget, Ilion is another name for the fabled city of Troy. You figure the lessons of the wooden horse would have been at least a dusty memory there.


29 posted on 08/28/2012 4:35:26 AM PDT by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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To: neverdem

Way to go NY. Drive yet another business out of the state.


30 posted on 08/28/2012 5:06:45 AM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: neverdem

We have room for future Remminton guns of all sizes, to be made, in Texas. We’ll even help them move here.


31 posted on 08/28/2012 5:47:07 AM PDT by tillacum
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To: neverdem

“Come on down!!”


32 posted on 08/28/2012 6:02:25 AM PDT by OKSooner
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To: neverdem

“”Look, frankly, if we really want to keep jobs in New York, let’s invest more money in yogurt,”

If confronted by a bad guy on the streets, throw a cup of yogurt at him, Jackie, you 30 IQ clown. Idiots like Jackie need a one-way trip on a freighter heading to North Korea.


33 posted on 08/28/2012 6:44:40 AM PDT by sergeantdave
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To: neverdem

No personal or Corp income taxes in Nevada.

lots of people here sure like their guns.


34 posted on 08/28/2012 7:22:34 AM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: ridesthemiles

With another look at the situation, Texas is a better choice.

Too many problems with Nevada—starting with Harry Reid & Shelly Berkley.


35 posted on 08/28/2012 7:30:41 AM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: MachIV

The Remington website has a tab for factory tours, but it is not active. I’d say that you’d have to call them directly and see if they are currently offering any.


36 posted on 08/28/2012 7:33:52 AM PDT by Stonewall Jackson ("I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy.")
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To: neverdem

Thanks for the ping!


37 posted on 08/28/2012 8:00:51 AM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Gaffer
I like it but one thing Remington didn’t do is polish the barrels feed ramp. I did it myself but shouldn’t have had to.

That bothers me too. It's basically an incompletely manufactured product! I think the only thing the consumer should have to do with a new gun is clean out any excess of protective oils or greases that were used to protect the firearm in the time between manufacture and purchase.
38 posted on 08/28/2012 8:33:50 AM PDT by verum ago (Be a bastard, and Karma'll be a bitch.)
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To: verum ago

It was surprising given the quality of the rest of the gun...ramp actually wasn’t part of the barrel, but in the throat of the frame where the magazine tops out, but it wasn’t even bare - still had their form of parkerizing on it. You could even see the rought grind marks on it. Worked okay with copper jackets, but I suspect LRN or other softer metals might FTF more easily than copper.

It took a good bit of a Dremel buff wheel cylinder (great for 45 ACP) and a lot of jeweler’s rouge to grind and polish it out.


39 posted on 08/28/2012 8:41:27 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: hadaclueonce

The guy buying up all the unmarked firing pins is the culprit.


40 posted on 08/28/2012 8:43:44 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Gaffer; All

41 posted on 08/28/2012 10:16:57 AM PDT by marktwain
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