Skip to comments.Obama versus Jesus: Black Christians Must Decide
Posted on 08/28/2012 12:42:25 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife
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The issue I raised was against a claim that Romney committed crimes. Only a list of those crimes (as I said, not doctrinal differences) or a retraction of that claim will do.
"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."---Joseph Knight's journal.
"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.
"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.
In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:
"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."
"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)
In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:"When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12June 15, 1879, pp. 190-91.)
Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"("A New Witness for Christ in America,"Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)
"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.
Romneys ‘crimes; are almost identical to Obamas, just on a state scale rather than a national scale.
Wrote and signed into law a mandatory health care system that mandtaes suport for abortion - Check
Supports and signed law making same-sex marriage legal - Check
Supports and signed laws liberalizing abortions - Check
Appointed liberal judges - Check.
Just for starters.
They are the same political animal, only Romney doesn’t necessarily ‘hate’ this country.
Sin is a crime - against God. and crime is a sin. Same same.
You asked for a list and RECEIVED it. Now you wish to try to split hairs.
There are none so blind that Will Not see.
It does not help that the choice is between two gay agenda lovers. Even when black Christians decide not to vote for Obama because he’s gone too far, they still have no reason to vote republican.
Many black people went out of their way to eat at Chick-Fil-A. Romney could not be bothered. If the republicans provide no alternative to the democrats, they should not be surprised when no one wants to vote for them.
The Byzantines once declared they would rather see the Turkish turban than the Latin miter in Constantinople. Centuries later chrstians are still divided along ethnic lines, preferring their enemies to each other.
If your lawyer told you you were committing a crime would you imagine it was a theological discussion? Don’t quibble, you sound like a democrat.
An assertion was made that crimes were committed by Romney. I asked for proof, a citation of the source of this charge or a retraction. So far none has been offered except asinine waffling. This is beneath honest people.
Healthcare on a state level is perfectly constitutional. See amendments nine and ten. The other matters you referenced are not crimes unless you can reference the relevant statutes violated by these actions.
Continue with your happiness.
I will remain happy, thank you, I just don’t like it when careless people libel otherwise innocent people with unsubstantiated claims of criminality.
I’m a bit surprised that doesn’t seem to bother most of the people I’ve been discussing this with here simply because the victim is a Mormon.
“(We are gonna get in trouble in THIS thread!)”
~ ~ ~
I know Elsie. Romney doesn’t change, TODAY, he makes three
exceptions for abortion. I kept saying on the forum, if he would only show by his record, his actions he has changed and truly is for life, I could vote for him.
I repeat again, a dear FR person said, yes, look Romney has
acted for life. When he was Governor of Mass Romney vetoed the bill forcing Catholic hospitals to dispense the Morning After Pill.
And now I read what really happened. It’s back to Romney is/was a pro-abort, his record, he has legislated abortion.
~ ~ ~
Mark Shea, Catholic apologist:
“He vetoed it SECURE in the knowledge that his veto would be overriden. Then this happened: http://townhall.com/columnists/terryjeffrey/2012/02/02/creators_oped/page/full/
Liberals joined in attacking Romneys defense of Catholic hospitals. But that defense did not last long.
The same day the Globe ran its editorial, Romney held a press conference. Now he said his legal counsel had advised him the new emergency contraception law did trump the 1975 conscience law.
On that basis, I have instructed the Department of Public Health to follow the conclusion of my own legal counsel and to adopt that sounder view, Romney said. In my personal view, its the RIGHT THING for hospitals to provide information and access to emergency contraception to anyone who is a victim of rape.
“An assertion was made that crimes were committed by Romney. I asked for proof, a citation of the source of this charge or a retraction. So far none has been offered except asinine waffling. This is beneath honest people.”
~ ~ ~
Thou shall not kill. Romney’s legislative record is totally
pro-abortion. He has never changed to become a person for life. He is a con, a habitual liar.
It is CRIME against God and man to kill the most innocent in their mother’s womb. Life begins at conception dear lady. A new human person is created by God, a person with a body and a soul. Technology confirms God’s revelation.
You’re not seeing, abortion has always been murder.
I do Not care a bit that he is a Mormon.
I do care how he has conducted himself in past positions, governmentally speaking.
You choose to hide your head about him, so be it. But don’t have the audacity to claim that your questions were not answered, you just choose to ignore that answer and continue on.
Mitt Romney is Obama-lite. Deal with it.
The only question have asked is what actual crimes Romney has committed. Who was the arresting officer? When did the crimes occur? Are there docket numbers? Who’s the prosecutor?
There was an allegation on this thread bu stpio that Romney committed crimes and I called the him on it. Stpiop has yet to back up that claim.
So, if no arrest, then no crime? Is that your contention?
So, if no arrest, then no crime? Is that your contention?
So, then I guess Corzine committed no crime when he stole 1 billion dollars in ustomer monies from MF Global?
And Holder is not a criminal in regards to Fast and Furious?
Then name the crime.
Unfortunately for millions, abortion is not against the law so furthering it is not a crime. Unfortunately for millions, favoring a larger government is not against the law so furthering it is not a crime. Unfortunately for millions, raising taxes is not against the law so doing so is not a crime.
Name his crimes; cite the statutes, name the jurisdiction.
I dare you.
It’s voice is a bit raspy...
You folks are holding either apples or oranges and claiming the other guy is holding oranges or apples.
muir keeps repeating the same, he/she does not want to
admit abortion is a crime of murder. A human person is
killed. Or, muir rejects the 10 Commandments?
muir, if you know of someone who has had an abortion or
been involved in an abortion, Our Lord’s greatest attribute
is His mercy. Tell them to repent from the heart and
confess their abortion or involvment in it to God. You know
God loves us more than anyone here. He forgives.
You can’t go to Heaven with uncofessed mortal sins on your
God bless you...and you too dear R.G.
Listen, whether or not something is ‘legal’ has nothing to do with it being a ‘crime’.
Killing a child, while ‘leagl’ cannot be labeled as anything other than a CRIME.
The fact that it is not is telling on our society.
The fact that you do NOT see it as a crime is telling for YOU.
Among Romney's first things on his todo list in the Oval Office:
Get RID of the CZARs and the HUNDREDS of people under them!
Listen, it doesn’t matter whether or not I see the atrocity of abortion as a crime, it matters what the statutes say. If you think we should prosecute people for crimes based upon the subjective feelings of a prosecutor and what that person “sees” as a crime, you seriously need to get your medication adjusted.
In a civil society, a man cannot be accused of having committed a crime unless there is evidence that he has violated a written statute. To suggest otherwise is to abandon the rule of law and invite anarchy. if that us your position, and from what you’ve written no one could draw any other conclusion, you cannot call yourself a conservative.
Among Romney’s first things on his todo list in the Oval Office:
Get RID of the CZARs and the HUNDREDS of people under them!
Unfortunately Willard wants to Repeal and Replace...
Replace is the objective of America.
The healthcare status quo is untenable and must be replaced with a new system that exists in many fragmented files scattered throughout congress, the healthcare industry and the insurance businesses.
Replace is good
The folks being tried at Nuremburg claimed that THEY were merely following orders - orders that were LEGAL in their 'civil' society.
It did not fare well for them.
A 'true' MORMON says, "Restoration is better."
The Obama campaign has accused Romney of killing a woman. How much are they paying you to make similarly absurd accusations of criminality?
I wouldn’t know. I’m not a psuedotheologian
I'll stop if you pay me more.
No need to be.
Being a reader of history will suffice quite well.
This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent
Would 30 pieces of silver do?
Buy a lot outside of Jerusalem...
Look, we’ve established what you are Elsie, we’re just haggling over the price.
What is your mouse's name?
We, as in you and I. We established what you are when you counter-offered. Pay attention please
So; I counter-offered YOUR offer?
I long ago discovered that very young children or infantile adults love getting the last word. These people have so little in their world that they can control that this gives them a sense of power.
My offer is to let you have the last word since you clearly fall into one of the two categories described above. Have at.
Why thank you, my liege; I will!
I have found, that those who lack a verifiable defense of a certain topic, will vacillate, waver and then slink away.
One would THINK those pastors would get even more traction by pointing out Obama’s support of abortion/infanticide issue, especially seeing the number of black babies that are aborted yearly.