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Obama versus Jesus: Black Christians Must Decide
The American Thinker ^ | August 28, 2012 | Lloyd Marcus

Posted on 08/28/2012 12:42:25 AM PDT by Cincinatus' Wife

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To: Elsie

The issue I raised was against a claim that Romney committed crimes. Only a list of those crimes (as I said, not doctrinal differences) or a retraction of that claim will do.


51 posted on 08/28/2012 5:34:58 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Hopey changey Low emission unicorns and a crap sandwich)
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To: Hoodat
Matthew 12:34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

 

 

Now THIS is a really interesting really to --->  Along with the followers of a FALSE prophet/teacher.

 




For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
 
HMMMmmm...
 
 



"Now the way he translated was he put the urim and thummim into his hat and Darkned his Eyes than he would take a sentance and it would apper in Brite Roman Letters. Then he would tell the writer and he would write it. Then that would go away the next sentance would Come and so on. But if it was not Spelt rite it would not go away till it was rite, so we see it was marvelous. Thus was the hol [whole] translated."
---Joseph Knight's journal.


"In writing for your father I frequently wrote day after day, often sitting at the table close by him, he sitting with his face buried in his hat, with the stone in it, and dictating hour after hour with nothing between us."
(History of the RLDS Church, 8 vols.
(Independence, Missouri: Herald House,1951),
"Last Testimony of Sister Emma [Smith Bidamon]," 3:356.

"I, as well as all of my father's family, Smith's wife, Oliver Cowdery and Martin Harris, were present during the translation. . . . He [Joseph Smith] did not use the plates in translation."
---(David Whitmer,
as published in the "Kansas City Journal," June 5, 1881,
and reprinted in the RLDS "Journal of History", vol. 8, (1910), pp. 299-300.

In an 1885 interview, Zenas H. Gurley, then the editor of the RLDS Saints Herald, asked Whitmer if Joseph had used his "Peep stone" to do the translation. Whitmer replied:

"... he used a stone called a "Seers stone," the "Interpreters" having been taken away from him because of transgression. The "Interpreters" were taken from Joseph after he allowed Martin Harris to carry away the 116 pages of Ms [manuscript] of the Book of Mormon as a punishment, but he was allowed to go on and translate by use of a "Seers stone" which he had, and which he placed in a hat into which he buried his face, stating to me and others that the original character appeared upon parchment and under it the translation in English."


"Martin Harris related an incident that occurred during the time that he wrote that portion of the translation of the Book of Mormon which he was favored to write direct from the mouth of the Prophet Joseph Smith. He said that the Prophet possessed a seer stone, by which he was enabled to translate as well as from the Urim and Thummim, and for convenience he then used the seer stone, Martin explained the translation as follows: By aid of the seer stone, sentences would appear and were read by the Prophet and written by Martin and when finished he would say 'Written,' and if correctly written that sentence would disappear and another appear in its place, but if not written correctly it remained until corrected, so that the translation was just as it was engraven on the plates, precisely in the language then used."
(Edward Stevenson, "One of the Three Witnesses,"
reprinted from Deseret News, 30 Nov. 1881
in Millennial Star, 44 (6 Feb. 1882): 86-87.)

In 1879, Michael Morse, Emma Smith's brother-in-law, stated:
"When Joseph was translating the Book of Mormon [I] had occasion more than once to go into his immediate presence, and saw him engaged at his work of translation. The mode of procedure consisted in Joseph's placing the Seer Stone in the crown of a hat, then putting his face into the hat, so as to entirely cover his face, resting his elbows upon his knees, and then dictating word after word, while the scribes Emma, John Whitmer, O. Cowdery, or some other wrote it down."
(W.W. Blair interview with Michael Morse,
Saints Herald, vol. 26, no. 12
June 15, 1879, pp. 190-91.)


Joseph Smith's brother William also testified to the "face in the hat" version:
"The manner in which this was done was by looking into the Urim and Thummim, which was placed in a hat to exclude the light, (the plates lying near by covered up), and reading off the translation, which appeared in the stone by the power of God"
("A New Witness for Christ in America,"
Francis W. Kirkham, 2:417.)


"The manner in which he pretended to read and interpret was the same manner as when he looked for the money-diggers, with the stone in his hat, while the book of plates were at the same time hid in the woods."
---Isaac Hale (Emma Smith's father's) affidavit, 1834.



 


52 posted on 08/28/2012 6:44:34 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: muir_redwoods

I see...


53 posted on 08/28/2012 6:45:36 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Nice asp.


54 posted on 08/28/2012 6:46:25 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter knows whom he's working fors)
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To: Elsie

http://www.google.com/search?q=what+crime+has+he+committed+jesus&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7ADRA_enUS475


55 posted on 08/28/2012 6:47:05 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: muir_redwoods

Romneys ‘crimes; are almost identical to Obamas, just on a state scale rather than a national scale.

Wrote and signed into law a mandatory health care system that mandtaes suport for abortion - Check

Supports and signed law making same-sex marriage legal - Check

Supports and signed laws liberalizing abortions - Check

Appointed liberal judges - Check.

Just for starters.

They are the same political animal, only Romney doesn’t necessarily ‘hate’ this country.


56 posted on 08/28/2012 7:17:08 AM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: muir_redwoods

Sin is a crime - against God. and crime is a sin. Same same.

You asked for a list and RECEIVED it. Now you wish to try to split hairs.

There are none so blind that Will Not see.


57 posted on 08/28/2012 7:25:17 AM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: verga

It does not help that the choice is between two gay agenda lovers. Even when black Christians decide not to vote for Obama because he’s gone too far, they still have no reason to vote republican.

Many black people went out of their way to eat at Chick-Fil-A. Romney could not be bothered. If the republicans provide no alternative to the democrats, they should not be surprised when no one wants to vote for them.


58 posted on 08/28/2012 7:32:42 AM PDT by Waryone (Definition of idiocy: nominating the father of socialized medicine to replace socialized medicine)
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To: Cincinatus' Wife
Black chrstians sold out a long time ago. They look upon a higher critical liberal who rejected all the chrstian dogmas (MLK Jr.) as their "messiah."

The Byzantines once declared they would rather see the Turkish turban than the Latin miter in Constantinople. Centuries later chrstians are still divided along ethnic lines, preferring their enemies to each other.

59 posted on 08/28/2012 8:03:36 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (Ki-hagoy vehamamlakhah 'asher lo'-ya`avdukh yove'du; vehagoyim charov yecheravu!)
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To: RoadGumby

If your lawyer told you you were committing a crime would you imagine it was a theological discussion? Don’t quibble, you sound like a democrat.

An assertion was made that crimes were committed by Romney. I asked for proof, a citation of the source of this charge or a retraction. So far none has been offered except asinine waffling. This is beneath honest people.


60 posted on 08/28/2012 8:43:46 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Hopey changey Low emission unicorns and a crap sandwich)
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To: RoadGumby

Healthcare on a state level is perfectly constitutional. See amendments nine and ten. The other matters you referenced are not crimes unless you can reference the relevant statutes violated by these actions.


61 posted on 08/28/2012 8:46:19 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Hopey changey Low emission unicorns and a crap sandwich)
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To: muir_redwoods

Ohhhh-kayyyy.

Continue with your happiness.


62 posted on 08/28/2012 11:32:46 AM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: RoadGumby

I will remain happy, thank you, I just don’t like it when careless people libel otherwise innocent people with unsubstantiated claims of criminality.

I’m a bit surprised that doesn’t seem to bother most of the people I’ve been discussing this with here simply because the victim is a Mormon.


63 posted on 08/28/2012 12:19:32 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Hopey changey Low emission unicorns and a crap sandwich)
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To: Elsie

“(We are gonna get in trouble in THIS thread!)”

~ ~ ~

I know Elsie. Romney doesn’t change, TODAY, he makes three
exceptions for abortion. I kept saying on the forum, if he would only show by his record, his actions he has changed and truly is for life, I could vote for him.

I repeat again, a dear FR person said, yes, look Romney has
acted for life. When he was Governor of Mass Romney vetoed the bill forcing Catholic hospitals to dispense the Morning After Pill.

And now I read what really happened. It’s back to Romney is/was a pro-abort, his record, he has legislated abortion.

~ ~ ~

Mark Shea, Catholic apologist:
“He vetoed it SECURE in the knowledge that his veto would be overriden. Then this happened: http://townhall.com/columnists/terryjeffrey/2012/02/02/creators_oped/page/full/

Liberals joined in attacking Romney’s defense of Catholic hospitals. But that defense did not last long.

The same day the Globe ran its editorial, Romney held a press conference. Now he said his legal counsel had advised him the new emergency contraception law did trump the 1975 conscience law.

“On that basis, I have instructed the Department of Public Health to follow the conclusion of my own legal counsel and to adopt that sounder view,” Romney said. “In my personal view, it’s the RIGHT THING for hospitals to provide information and access to emergency contraception to anyone who is a victim of rape.”


64 posted on 08/28/2012 12:25:23 PM PDT by stpio
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To: muir_redwoods

“An assertion was made that crimes were committed by Romney. I asked for proof, a citation of the source of this charge or a retraction. So far none has been offered except asinine waffling. This is beneath honest people.”

~ ~ ~

Thou shall not kill. Romney’s legislative record is totally
pro-abortion. He has never changed to become a person for life. He is a con, a habitual liar.

It is CRIME against God and man to kill the most innocent in their mother’s womb. Life begins at conception dear lady. A new human person is created by God, a person with a body and a soul. Technology confirms God’s revelation.

You’re not seeing, abortion has always been murder.


65 posted on 08/28/2012 12:38:50 PM PDT by stpio
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To: muir_redwoods

I do Not care a bit that he is a Mormon.

I do care how he has conducted himself in past positions, governmentally speaking.

You choose to hide your head about him, so be it. But don’t have the audacity to claim that your questions were not answered, you just choose to ignore that answer and continue on.

Mitt Romney is Obama-lite. Deal with it.


66 posted on 08/28/2012 1:00:39 PM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: RoadGumby

The only question have asked is what actual crimes Romney has committed. Who was the arresting officer? When did the crimes occur? Are there docket numbers? Who’s the prosecutor?

There was an allegation on this thread bu stpio that Romney committed crimes and I called the him on it. Stpiop has yet to back up that claim.


67 posted on 08/28/2012 1:27:42 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Hopey changey Low emission unicorns and a crap sandwich)
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To: muir_redwoods

So, if no arrest, then no crime? Is that your contention?


68 posted on 08/28/2012 1:44:55 PM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: muir_redwoods

So, if no arrest, then no crime? Is that your contention?

So, then I guess Corzine committed no crime when he stole 1 billion dollars in ustomer monies from MF Global?

And Holder is not a criminal in regards to Fast and Furious?


69 posted on 08/28/2012 1:46:17 PM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: RoadGumby

Then name the crime.

Unfortunately for millions, abortion is not against the law so furthering it is not a crime. Unfortunately for millions, favoring a larger government is not against the law so furthering it is not a crime. Unfortunately for millions, raising taxes is not against the law so doing so is not a crime.

Name his crimes; cite the statutes, name the jurisdiction.

I dare you.


70 posted on 08/28/2012 2:00:23 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Hopey changey Low emission unicorns and a crap sandwich)
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To: MrB

It’s voice is a bit raspy...


71 posted on 08/28/2012 2:51:58 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: muir_redwoods; RoadGumby

You folks are holding either apples or oranges and claiming the other guy is holding oranges or apples.


72 posted on 08/28/2012 2:54:48 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: RoadGumby

muir keeps repeating the same, he/she does not want to
admit abortion is a crime of murder. A human person is
killed. Or, muir rejects the 10 Commandments?

muir, if you know of someone who has had an abortion or
been involved in an abortion, Our Lord’s greatest attribute
is His mercy. Tell them to repent from the heart and
confess their abortion or involvment in it to God. You know
God loves us more than anyone here. He forgives.

You can’t go to Heaven with uncofessed mortal sins on your
soul.

God bless you...and you too dear R.G.


73 posted on 08/28/2012 8:14:34 PM PDT by stpio
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To: muir_redwoods

Listen, whether or not something is ‘legal’ has nothing to do with it being a ‘crime’.

Killing a child, while ‘leagl’ cannot be labeled as anything other than a CRIME.

The fact that it is not is telling on our society.

The fact that you do NOT see it as a crime is telling for YOU.


74 posted on 08/29/2012 4:49:03 AM PDT by RoadGumby (This is not where I belong, Take this world and give me Jesus.)
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To: muir_redwoods
When a president must hire out his real job to 32 czars, he was never CEO material.

--Someone's tagline...

Among Romney's first things on his todo list in the Oval Office:

Get RID of the CZARs and the HUNDREDS of people under them!

75 posted on 08/29/2012 4:57:28 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: RoadGumby

Listen, it doesn’t matter whether or not I see the atrocity of abortion as a crime, it matters what the statutes say. If you think we should prosecute people for crimes based upon the subjective feelings of a prosecutor and what that person “sees” as a crime, you seriously need to get your medication adjusted.

In a civil society, a man cannot be accused of having committed a crime unless there is evidence that he has violated a written statute. To suggest otherwise is to abandon the rule of law and invite anarchy. if that us your position, and from what you’ve written no one could draw any other conclusion, you cannot call yourself a conservative.


76 posted on 08/29/2012 5:36:39 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Hopey changey Low emission unicorns and a crap sandwich)
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To: Elsie

Among Romney’s first things on his todo list in the Oval Office:

Get RID of the CZARs and the HUNDREDS of people under them!
____________________________________

Unfortunately Willard wants to Repeal and Replace...


77 posted on 08/29/2012 8:54:50 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana

Replace is the objective of America.

The healthcare status quo is untenable and must be replaced with a new system that exists in many fragmented files scattered throughout congress, the healthcare industry and the insurance businesses.

Replace is good


78 posted on 08/29/2012 8:59:34 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Present failure and impending death yield irrational action))
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To: muir_redwoods
In a civil society, a man cannot be accused of having committed a crime unless there is evidence that he has violated a written statute.

Sigh...

The folks being tried at Nuremburg claimed that THEY were merely following orders - orders that were LEGAL in their 'civil' society.

It did not fare well for them.

79 posted on 08/29/2012 10:17:18 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: bert
Replace is good

A 'true' MORMON says, "Restoration is better."

80 posted on 08/29/2012 10:18:10 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

The Obama campaign has accused Romney of killing a woman. How much are they paying you to make similarly absurd accusations of criminality?


81 posted on 08/29/2012 10:27:19 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Hopey changey Low emission unicorns and a crap sandwich)
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To: Elsie

I wouldn’t know. I’m not a psuedotheologian


82 posted on 08/29/2012 10:28:50 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Present failure and impending death yield irrational action))
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To: muir_redwoods
How much are they paying you to make similarly absurd accusations of criminality?

I'll stop if you pay me more.

83 posted on 08/29/2012 7:28:49 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: bert

No need to be.

Being a reader of history will suffice quite well.


84 posted on 08/29/2012 7:31:36 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

“This is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent”

John 17:3


85 posted on 08/29/2012 7:34:24 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Would 30 pieces of silver do?


86 posted on 08/29/2012 8:21:38 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Hopey changey Low emission unicorns and a crap sandwich)
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To: muir_redwoods

Buy a lot outside of Jerusalem...


87 posted on 08/30/2012 4:41:22 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Look, we’ve established what you are Elsie, we’re just haggling over the price.


88 posted on 08/30/2012 5:18:58 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Hopey changey Low emission unicorns and a crap sandwich)
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To: muir_redwoods
WE have?

What is your mouse's name?

89 posted on 08/30/2012 12:43:45 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

We, as in you and I. We established what you are when you counter-offered. Pay attention please


90 posted on 08/30/2012 1:27:05 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Hopey changey Low emission unicorns and a crap sandwich)
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To: muir_redwoods
We established what you are when you counter-offered.

WE did?

So; I counter-offered YOUR offer?

91 posted on 08/31/2012 3:59:03 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

I long ago discovered that very young children or infantile adults love getting the last word. These people have so little in their world that they can control that this gives them a sense of power.

My offer is to let you have the last word since you clearly fall into one of the two categories described above. Have at.


92 posted on 08/31/2012 4:19:39 AM PDT by muir_redwoods (Hopey changey Low emission unicorns and a crap sandwich)
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To: muir_redwoods
My offer is to let you have the last word since you clearly fall into one of the two categories described above. Have at.

Why thank you, my liege; I will!

I have found, that those who lack a verifiable defense of a certain topic, will vacillate, waver and then slink away.

93 posted on 08/31/2012 10:50:10 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: MrDem

One would THINK those pastors would get even more traction by pointing out Obama’s support of abortion/infanticide issue, especially seeing the number of black babies that are aborted yearly.


94 posted on 10/09/2012 11:41:17 AM PDT by a real Sheila (RYAN/romney 2012)
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