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David Koch breaks from GOP on gay marriage, taxes, defense cuts
Politico ^ | 8/30/12 8:09 PM EDT | Kenneth P. Vogel

Posted on 08/30/2012 6:56:56 PM PDT by Olog-hai

Billionaire industrialist David Koch, who is helping steer millions of dollars to elect Mitt Romney and congressional Republicans, on Thursday told Politico he disagrees with the GOP’s stance on gay marriage and believes the U.S. needs to consider raising taxes to balance the budget.

Koch, who is serving as a delegate to the Republican National Convention from New York, spoke to Politico after delivering brief remarks at a reception held in his honor him by Americans for Prosperity, the political advocacy group he chairs and has helped fund.

The 1980 vice presidential nominee for the socially liberal—but fiscally conservative—Libertarian Party, Koch told Politico, “I believe in gay marriage”, when asked about the GOP’s stance on gay rights. … Koch said he thinks the U.S. military should withdraw from the Middle East and said the government should consider defense spending cuts, as well as possible tax increases to get its fiscal house in order—a stance anathema to many in the Republican Party. …

(Excerpt) Read more at politico.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: billionaires; donors; koch; rinos
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Leftists will go on about “Koch brothers, Koch Brothers” all day, but don't mention that David is on their side. (And a libertarian raising taxes? He sure ain’t one in that case.)
1 posted on 08/30/2012 6:57:04 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai
The same applies to the Kochs as applis to that windbag Buffett. If David Koch thinks he underpays his taxes, well, he should write out a check to the IRS for whatever amount he underpays. They will happily take it, and Obama will happily spend it.

Leave the rest of us alone.

2 posted on 08/30/2012 7:06:10 PM PDT by stevem
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To: Olog-hai

As much as I might hate it, taxes probably DO need to go up....on EVERYONE. Spending will probably need to be cut by double the amount we increase taxes. The fact is we’ve already spent too much, and it has to be paid for. After the debt is paid down, taxes should be cut down to nearly nothing.


3 posted on 08/30/2012 7:06:42 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: Olog-hai

I’ll give him a libertarian stance on marriage, but raising taxes? What’s the point of all this investment in the conservative movement if raising taxes is a-ok. All these governors are here showing that they accomplished big problems and balanced budgets without new taxes. Tax reform, absolutely. Blanket tax increases...won’t solve anything.


4 posted on 08/30/2012 7:08:01 PM PDT by ilgipper
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To: KoRn

I would accept raising taxes IF an equal amount of government spending could be cut...but we all know that wouldn’t happen.


5 posted on 08/30/2012 7:08:18 PM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
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To: Olog-hai

Ken Vogel thinks he is breaking new ground?? I mentioned this on an FR thread several months ago.

The Koch brothers are libertarians who believe in gay marriage...they aren’t fully conservatives like we are here on FR.


6 posted on 08/30/2012 7:10:35 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: dfwgator

Cut two dollars, raise taxes one dollar.


7 posted on 08/30/2012 7:10:39 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy (I'm not voting for Romney. The Grand Old Whig Party doesn't own my vote and failed to earn it.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

You won’t hear much out of FReepers about gay marriages performed in the wedding chapels owned by Sheldon Adelson either. His feelings on abortion wouldn’t win him any FR friends.


8 posted on 08/30/2012 7:14:17 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Olog-hai

I am trying to help the gays by opposing gay marriage....why should those poor gays have to go through what I went through in marriage, lack of sex and the pain of divorce!


9 posted on 08/30/2012 7:14:18 PM PDT by badpacifist (Romney/Ryan Half right is better than all wrong)
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To: dfwgator; KoRn
National defense, veterans, roads & bridges (fuel tax only) every other program cut at least 80% and NO MORE WELFARE of any kind. Phase out Social Security & Medicare and privatize them. No more food stamps, Section 8, TANF, WIC, Head Start, etc. Either work or don't eat, unless you're provably disabled by three separate panels of doctors. Don't like that? Leave!!
10 posted on 08/30/2012 7:16:32 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: KoRn

The federal government owns trillions in assets. Sell them first. Rent out DOD ~ or collect tribute ~ both traditional things to do to deal with a heavy national defense bill.


11 posted on 08/30/2012 7:18:37 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Olog-hai

Dear Mr. Koch - “gay marriage”? Thanks for all the support - but please don’t let the door hit you on the butt on the way out.


12 posted on 08/30/2012 7:19:09 PM PDT by Chainmail (A simple rule of life: if you can be blamed, you're responsible.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

exactly

why is it that libertarians can;t use their own platform their own cnvention, their own nomination process instead we have to put up with them coming in and then demanding we become librals except paying taxes.

A freeper once said on here, libertarians are liberals who hate paying taxes, how right that is.

The media will jump up and down about this like they did with McCain’s daughter.

They live in their la land and if it were up to them then get all the drugs you want, marry your sister of which one poster on here once said a couple of years ago and never pay a tax plus get rid of the CIA, FBI etc because if we never bother anyone they won;t bother us, [sigh]


13 posted on 08/30/2012 7:20:26 PM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: KoRn

BS. Feeding the beast ain’t the damn answer.


14 posted on 08/30/2012 7:21:12 PM PDT by jwalsh07 (.)
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To: Olog-hai

its no use mr. koch - the libs will never like you...


15 posted on 08/30/2012 7:21:34 PM PDT by zwerni (this isn't gonna be good for business)
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To: KoRn

I agree with you in principle, but that was not the lesson we learned in NJ. Problem is not tax increases or tax cuts, it was spending. Raise taxes, make sure the gov follows thru with spending cuts or reduction in the rate of spending increases. In the end it took a tough Gov Christie to kick ass, but even he had a tough time to make all the necessary cuts.


16 posted on 08/30/2012 7:23:33 PM PDT by Fee
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To: zwerni

Why do you think he was interviewed by O-litico? I’ll give him a pass on the fudgepacker nonsense, but the tax raise is an issue for me.


17 posted on 08/30/2012 7:28:43 PM PDT by max americana (Make the world a better place by punching a liberal in the face)
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To: Fee
Koch declined to comment on a POLITICO report that he and his older brother Charles plan to steer nearly $400 million ahead of the 2012 election to conservative groups, including Americans for Prosperity, which has aired millions of dollars in attack ads against Obama and his congressional allies.

His brother controls that

18 posted on 08/30/2012 7:29:25 PM PDT by scooby321 (AMS)
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To: KoRn

You’ll always get just shy of 19% GDP in revenues, regardless of tax rate. Lower the marginal rates and grow the GDP, if you want more revenues.


19 posted on 08/30/2012 7:31:42 PM PDT by GoDuke
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To: Olog-hai

Time and again, a wealthy individual says we ought to raise taxes. They might even say that spending should be cut. However, they have an understanding of economics that is only slightly more sophisticated than the typical US high school student. These people think that a combination of cutting spending and raising taxes will somehow ease the budgetary shortfalls in governments. However, the real world doesn’t work that way. First of all, taxes are inherently destructive—if you tax something, you destroy that something at least partly. If you tax earnings, you will reduce the motivation people have to contribute their labor. This is in inverse proportion to income. A dollar of earnings to someone who earns just enough to be in the top tax bracket is more valuable to that person than a dollar of earnings is to Koch or Buffett. You could tax them a bunch but not have much effect and so they perceive income and taxes much differently than people with lower earnings.
Second, if you put more money into taxes, you give money to people whose job it is to spend money. There has never been an incentive or reward for any politician who cuts spending. It does not and will not happen unless the system is changed to reward cuts, punish spending, or both. This is a fatal flaw in the approach of those who harken to John M. Keynes’ Depression-era advice. Politicians spend when times are bad and spend when times are good—they spend—that is what they get rewarded for.
Third, if you take tax money out of the US economy and send it to govt, govt must use a portion of that money to pay interest on past spending—for the interest payments that do not stay in the US, that is an instant loss of value that cannot be applied to spur economic activity more generally. A portion of that interest is paid to non-US entities essentially fueling economic competition against US companies and citizens. Higher tax rates also motivate businesses and those who pay the higher taxes to seek more favorable economic environments. Fourth, taxes sent to gov’t that do not pay for interest often fuel govt programs that are impossible to cut or reduce in size given politicians’ incentives. Once a dollar is sent to gov’t, it is often like buying a subscription. Every year, another dollar must be sent plus whatever increase that politicians deem needed to keep the ultimate recipients happy. Dollars spent by private sector organizations and individuals are often one-time “project” spending—dollars spent by gov’t are repeated “subscription” spending.
These are just some of the reasons higher taxes are a threat to the economy and will not improve govt’s economic state. I would appreciate any economist’s or other individual’s comments on my post that can improve my thinking on this issue.


20 posted on 08/30/2012 7:31:56 PM PDT by iacovatx (Conservatism is the political center--it is not "right" of center)
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To: KoRn

The United States already collects in taxes about 19 percent of GNP. No tax system is going to increase that. The Laffer Curve demonstrates that there is a break point where tax increases result in lower tax revenues. No free country can sustain taxation above 19.5% of GNP.

The tax increases that you favor will only depress the economy and spur the further growth of the underground economy.


21 posted on 08/30/2012 7:32:53 PM PDT by Monterrosa-24 (...even more American that a French bikini and a Russian AK-47.)
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To: jwalsh07

Agreed. The idea that MORE taxes are needed is effing insane.

This country is awash in government spending and much of it is used to attack, denigrate and undermine those of us who pay it in.


22 posted on 08/30/2012 7:33:22 PM PDT by Fightin Whitey
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Homosexual “marriage” is not about the marriage of homosexuals, it’s about forcing homosexuality on those that want no part of it.


23 posted on 08/30/2012 7:34:09 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: SoFloFreeper

I am a libertarian..I don’t believe in gay marriage but I also don’t believe the federal government should have a say in marriage at all..leave it to the states. It’s not the federal governments job to legislate morality. I do think homosexuals are a**holes about this. They know that it grinds the religious people, they know there are other avenues that most people would be ok with(a plurality..except for the fundamentalists)..they press the issue to make it seem like there is hate when there is none.


24 posted on 08/30/2012 7:39:45 PM PDT by aft_lizard
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To: aft_lizard
I am a libertarian..I don’t believe in gay marriage but I also don’t believe the federal government should have a say in marriage at all..leave it to the states.

That makes homosexual marriage legal in all fifty states, because parents are either married or not, it can't depend on which state they are in.

25 posted on 08/30/2012 7:52:01 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: KoRn; dfwgator

Argghhh! Why should anyone pay a dime more in taxes until the obscene levels of waste, corruption, and outright theft in government are curtailed?

Besides, raising taxes does nothing for the debt. First, the higher taxes never bring in what is “expected”, because higher taxes discourage wealth creation. Second, the jerks in Washington just keep spending. Until the size and power of the federal government is reduced, we will not be able to reduce the debt!


26 posted on 08/30/2012 7:53:17 PM PDT by Pining_4_TX ( The state is the great fiction by which everybody seeks to live at the expense of everybody else. ~)
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To: ansel12

It wouldn’t make it legal.Current laws outside of DOMA are by state by state and is up to inter state recognition(ie one state could theoretically not recognize your marriage). We leave it up to individual states to determine who can get married based on age, relationship..whether or not you have an STD..nature of the marriage(is it sanctioned, common law, etc)..so by repealing DOMA you are simply saying that the federal government accepts a marriage as defined by that indivdual state.


27 posted on 08/30/2012 8:07:11 PM PDT by aft_lizard
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To: Olog-hai

Let david pay more taxes if he wishes to or he can STFU. Take his money and spend it... leave his suggestions in the septic tank.

LLS


28 posted on 08/30/2012 8:13:59 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (If romney is our only chance... we have less of a chance than a Massachusetts fetus.)
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To: ClearCase_guy
Reagan fell for that EXACT BS... NO new taxes! CUT SPENDING!

LLS

29 posted on 08/30/2012 8:18:55 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer (If romney is our only chance... we have less of a chance than a Massachusetts fetus.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"National defense, veterans, roads & bridges (fuel tax only) every other program cut at least 80% and NO MORE WELFARE of any kind. Phase out Social Security & Medicare and privatize them. No more food stamps, Section 8, TANF, WIC, Head Start, etc. Either work or don't eat, unless you're provably disabled by three separate panels of doctors. Don't like that? Leave!!"

Sounds like a winner to me! The bottom line is that our .gov needs to return to it's Constitutionally mandated role, per the design of our founders.

30 posted on 08/30/2012 8:23:19 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: Olog-hai

Mr. Koch is right about needing to raise taxes. The 47% of the people who pay no federal income tax which includes people, who get the Earned Income T Credit, need to start paying. The Earned Income Tax Credit pays people with incomes up to $49,078 a year instead of them contributing to maintaining the government. The EITC needs to be done away with.

While it is true that these are tax increases, I don’t think any libertarian (or conservative) should object.


31 posted on 08/30/2012 8:34:34 PM PDT by SUSSA
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

You left out the single payer socialized school industry. Doing away with that entitlement would dwarf the savings from all the ones you listed except SS and Medicare.

We should also reduce the military budget by issuing Letters of Marque and Reprisal. Let the private sector put up the money and make a profit from some of these conflicts.


32 posted on 08/30/2012 8:50:08 PM PDT by SUSSA
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To: KoRn

sure the govt should raise taxes because history shows they always use the extra money to

a) reduce the deficit or
b) invest it so much more wisely than I do....

sarc


33 posted on 08/30/2012 8:58:18 PM PDT by silverleaf (Age Takes a Toll: Please Have Exact Change)
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To: aft_lizard

Right now all states recognize each other’s marriages, even common law, this temporary issue with homosexual marriage will be resolved in the same way, as you know.

Five or 15 years from now there will be no states that do not recognize what will become a common marriage practice between consenting adults, by that time polygamy will be legal as well, as we discard the definition of “marriage” totally, and use the word for all consenting adult relationships of that nature.


34 posted on 08/30/2012 9:18:14 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: SUSSA
We should also reduce the military budget by issuing Letters of Marque and Reprisal. Let the private sector put up the money and make a profit from some of these conflicts.

How would that work in Grenada, or Desert Storm, Or the Iraqi invasion, or Afghanistan, or in a close to war stand off with China?

35 posted on 08/30/2012 9:29:01 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12

Only if your marriage was recognized as such in a state that accepts common-law which is only about 8 states. So while California doesn’t have common law, it will recognize a common law marriage from Kansas. On the verse though if you lived with someone long enough to be common law in another state in California your belief that you have a common law marriage won’t be recognized in a state that does have common law marriage until you fulfill whatever laws and regulations they deem necessary to have a common law marriage.


36 posted on 08/30/2012 9:35:56 PM PDT by aft_lizard
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To: KoRn

And you really believe the gubmint would cut the spending as well as cut the taxes when the fiscal house was in order?What are you 15 years old? Unbelievable.


37 posted on 08/30/2012 9:39:50 PM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life's tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: aft_lizard

I know that, but all states recognize each other’s marriages, even common law marriages.

That is why I said it,
“”Right now all states recognize each other’s marriages, even common law, this temporary issue with homosexual marriage will be resolved in the same way, as you know.””


38 posted on 08/30/2012 9:40:07 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ilgipper

Thats the problem with losertarians sooner or later their true liberal leanings sprout like a wart for all to see.


39 posted on 08/30/2012 9:41:38 PM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life's tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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Comment #40 Removed by Moderator

To: HANG THE EXPENSE
"And you really believe the gubmint would cut the spending as well as cut the taxes when the fiscal house was in order?"

No, of course not. lol That would require a bit of pain and sacrifice on the part of our pampered citizens and would require politicians to actually become leaders.

I know that raising taxes is bad bad bad, but the money has ALREADY BEEN SPENT! We're up to our eyeballs in debt folks. We're so far in debt, it can't be paid with current revenues. Spending MUST be materially cut, and more revenue needs to come in from somewhere to balance the budget.

If this budget debacle is ever settled, going forward, we should NEVER spend a dime more than we bring in with CURRENT tax revenue, barring a state of war/facing annihilation.

41 posted on 08/30/2012 11:43:29 PM PDT by KoRn (Department of Homeland Security, Certified - "Right Wing Extremist")
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To: jwalsh07

I fully expect the situation to deteriorate to where the United States will be in a Greek style crisis and the political leaders of both parties like Romney, Ryan, Clinton, Reid etc. etc. will advocate higher taxes and spending cuts at the same time.

Austerity measures for America.......


42 posted on 08/30/2012 11:59:07 PM PDT by Nextrush (PRESIDENT SARAH PALIN IS MY DREAM)
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To: Olog-hai

Koch = Soros

Seems to be getting this way


43 posted on 08/31/2012 2:47:07 AM PDT by SeminoleCounty (The GOP Media whining over Todd Akin is not legitimate)
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To: KoRn

The show Bar Rescue, John Tapper explains “Businesses have to be profitable, profits comes from managing cost”

One cost for Business to manage would be taxes. How does anyone expect the economy to grow? Spending is the issue, higher taxes is just passing the buck.


44 posted on 08/31/2012 3:22:04 AM PDT by Son House (The Economic Boom Heard Around The World => TEA Party 2012)
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To: ansel12

I didn’t say ELIMINATE the military budget that way. I said reduce it.


45 posted on 08/31/2012 3:38:29 AM PDT by SUSSA
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To: KoRn
When a country has an overbearing gubmint such as ours the citizenry is anything but pampered.Grow/allow the private sector to flourish and put the new revenue towards the debt.Raising taxes would be counter productive.
46 posted on 08/31/2012 4:33:42 AM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life's tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: SUSSA

That has nothing to do with post 35. I asked a simple question in post 35, do you have a response?


47 posted on 08/31/2012 10:20:15 AM PDT by ansel12 ( Aug. 27, 2012-Mitt Romney said his views on abortion are more lenient than the Republican Platform)
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To: ansel12

Post 35 reads:

We should also reduce the military budget by issuing Letters of Marque and Reprisal. Let the private sector put up the money and make a profit from some of these conflicts.

How would that work in Grenada, or Desert Storm, Or the Iraqi invasion, or Afghanistan, or in a close to war stand off with China?
###

Sorry, I thought it is obvious that countries can’t invade other countries using letters of marquis. So they would have no effect on Grenada, either Iraq invasion, or Afghanistan. Therefore, we would still need a strong military and a robust military budget.

In a standoff with Red China the threat of using them to disrupting their oil imports and would be a help in keeping them in line.

China gets almost all of their oil by tanker. Private companies could capture those tankers and sell both the tankers and cargo for a nice profit. Many tanker owners would refuse to carry oil to Red China and risk losing their ships. This would slow Red China’s economy and hamper their ability to make war.

We could also threaten to use them to shut down all their seaborne trade. Private warships could devastate their economy by substantially reducing their imports and exports.

The savings would not be anywhere near the savings from cutting out things like socialized schooling or Obamacare or Bushcare. But they would be more than we’d get from eliminating things like the National Endowment for the Arts, National Endowment for the Humanities, and numerous other programs that should be eliminated. It would save some money and every dollar we don’t spend is a dollar we don’t have to borrow.


48 posted on 08/31/2012 2:30:18 PM PDT by SUSSA
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To: SUSSA
So we give up the right to invade?

Who are these forces strong enough to intimidate China, which country allows such a powerful military force to live within their borders? Who pays them and supports their permanent existence, who replenishes their destroyed materials and manpower after massive battle losses, who protects their bases and their flanks, and transports them into battle?

Where do they maintain their naval bases, and air bases? Who reigns them in when they go renegade, do you remember that Mike Hoare’s personal retirement plan was to conquer Seychelles, and he was leading just a few dozen guys, you are talking about creating one of the biggest militaries on earth

49 posted on 08/31/2012 3:14:07 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Aug. 27, 2012-Mitt Romney said his views on abortion are more lenient than the Republican Platform)
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To: SUSSA

I misunderstood you, we can still invade, which means we save no money because we still have to maintain the same size military.


50 posted on 08/31/2012 3:16:11 PM PDT by ansel12 ( Aug. 27, 2012-Mitt Romney said his views on abortion are more lenient than the Republican Platform)
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