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T. Boone Pickens throws in the towel on NAT GAS
Hot Air ^ | Sept.1,2012 | Jazz Shaw

Posted on 09/01/2012 6:38:40 AM PDT by Hojczyk

On Aug. 29 the biggest proponent of the NAT GAS Act, Mr. T. Boone Pickens, decided that some battles simply aren’t worth fighting any more.

T. Boone Pickens said natural gas vehicles can survive just fine without Congress approving his so-called Pickens Plan.

“It’s going to happen, and you don’t have to have Washington do it, thank God,” Pickens said at Wednesday’s energy luncheon hosted by POLITICO…

And Pickens strongly suggested that he doesn’t have any plans to try to push his plan anymore in the nation’s Capital.

“I will not go back to Washington again unless it’s for a social event,” he said.

He also took a moment to toss in a comment on his previous wind energy proposal.

The billionaire and former oil baron also lamented that while his plan initially promoted wind energy, that hasn’t worked out so well.

“I’ve lost my ass” to wind-energy investments, he conceded.

The American Conservative Union was popping champagne over this while the rest of us were whooping it up in Tampa.

American Conservative Union (ACU) today issued the following statement from ACU Chairman Al Cardenas:

“We are thrilled to hear that T. Boone Pickens has thrown in the towel on the NAT GAS Act. It was a classic example of the federal government attempting to pick winners and losers within an industry and that’s why the ACU fought so hard against this misguided policy. ACU will continue to monitor this legislation and will act swiftly to make sure that the NAT GAS Act does not go anywhere”

Many of the strongest supporters of natural gas exploration, including yours truly, have lined up against the NAT GAS Act. This doesn’t mean in any way shape or form that we oppose the exploration, development and use of natural gas. It’s a great, abundant energy source with a ton of potential for America.

But as always, government subsidies are not the answer to whatever problem some members of Congress think they’re trying to fix. This form of energy will succeed if it’s economical and competitive in the market. (And it certainly looks like it is.) We don’t need Uncle Sam’s thumb on the scale. Let’s hope this represents the closing chapter of this story.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government
KEYWORDS: naturalgas; tboonepickens

1 posted on 09/01/2012 6:38:44 AM PDT by Hojczyk
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To: Hojczyk

Pickens was and is a tool. He didn’t lose anything, he just didn’t make the billions that he thought he’d make by making a deal with the devil. I wish he’d of lost “his ass”, cause he sure sucked up to the government and the environ-wackos in order to catch some money they were throwing out the window.


2 posted on 09/01/2012 6:42:19 AM PDT by Dick Vomer (democrats are like flies, whatever they don't eat they sh#t on.)
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To: Hojczyk
When folks here in NY and Penn get their act together, there will be plenty of Natural gas. Our heating bills are outrageous and there's no resaon for it.

Wind....blow it out your ear....Just plain stupid when better options are available.

And stop the damn ethanol garbage. Corn was double the price this year and who can afford beef??

3 posted on 09/01/2012 6:43:37 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Hojczyk

Actually, ANY energy inititative whether coal, water power, wind power, animal power, sun power, gas power, or nuclear power will never be accepted by the green and environmentalist movement because they are anti-human to begin with.

They would complain even about ‘magic’ power because it wouldn’t be accessible by the handicapped or some such dumb crap like that (yeah! I used that word - deal with it).....


4 posted on 09/01/2012 6:46:01 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Dick Vomer

This is the same T Bone Pickens who tried to cheat ranchers out of their water rights in the TX Panhandle so he could sell it to the Ft.Worth/Dallas Metroplex.

He is never to be trusted when there is a buck to be made.


5 posted on 09/01/2012 6:46:22 AM PDT by txrefugee
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To: Sacajaweau

“Corn was double the price this year and who can afford beef??”

Not just beef. It raises the costs on chicken and farm raised fish as well.


6 posted on 09/01/2012 6:47:03 AM PDT by Psalm 144 ( "I didn't leave the Democratic Party. The party left me." Ronald Wilson Reagan)
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To: Sacajaweau

I’ve had three late model (2005 or newer) vehicles that have had PO2 O2 Sensor Problems that kept recurring. It is because of the ethanol content in gas. I finally bought a CAN2 OBD diagnose/reset tool to deal with. Just reset it every time it happens.


7 posted on 09/01/2012 6:48:33 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Hojczyk

I’m lovin’ it!

I think Pickins was playing the political market and he deserved to lose. Not the wisest thing to place your bet on now was it Mr. Pickins.

I hope you learned your lesson that Washington ain’t your investment partner.


8 posted on 09/01/2012 6:52:51 AM PDT by EBH (Courage, Trust, Sacred Honor, Truth, Freedom)
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To: Dick Vomer

Except nat gas vehicles do make sense. An MCF of natural gas sells for $3.25 and has the equivalent of 7.3 gallons of gasoline, which costs $30 at the pump. A huge multiple, and the conversion on a pickup truck takes 4 hours! This is happening, hopefully government gets out of the way.

More jobs in America, less money going to terrorist nations, and more take home pay for our citizens. You would think the $#$@ing idiot Democrats would be all over this - but no! Obama would rather see our treasure going to former colonies, as he bows in front of Arab sultans. Obama will bleed this nation white, through the issuance of sick debt and ransacking the treasury. Thousands more can be employed in energy, with high paying jobs, and he prevented that from happening.

He wants to ‘equalize’ the world and diminish America. If you revisit the lectures of Jeremiah White, Bill Ayers, Edward Said, Frank Marshall - it will all be there.


9 posted on 09/01/2012 6:56:04 AM PDT by Titus-Maximus (Light from Light)
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To: Dick Vomer

T-Bone Pickens is a wealthy fool like Buffet.


10 posted on 09/01/2012 6:56:31 AM PDT by IbJensen (Since light travels faster than sound, some people appear bright until you hear them speak.)
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To: Hojczyk

That’s sad. Using natural gas for transportaion would change a lot of things for the better. Iran for one would be sucking air when oil prices plummeted. The Saudis wouldn’t be financing Arab spring festivals when their reserves dropped off a cliff either.


11 posted on 09/01/2012 6:57:07 AM PDT by meatloaf (Support Senate S 1863 & House Bill 1380 to eliminate oil slavery.)
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To: Hojczyk
Governments don't build things, markets do. If you need the government to back something perhaps it's not viable?
12 posted on 09/01/2012 7:00:38 AM PDT by ryan71
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To: Titus-Maximus

>>A huge multiple, and the conversion on a pickup truck takes 4 hours!

Really? I’d like to learn more about that. Do you have a link to a product you recommend?


13 posted on 09/01/2012 7:01:57 AM PDT by Bryanw92 (Sic semper tyrannis)
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To: Hojczyk

I’ve been wondering about this for some time. Forget about electric, natural gas seem to be the way to go for the auto industry.


14 posted on 09/01/2012 7:25:04 AM PDT by slumber1 (Don't taze me bro!)
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To: Sacajaweau
And stop the damn ethanol garbage. Corn was double the price this year and who can afford beef??

My supermarket no longer sells beef, but they will allow you to look at some for a dollar admission fee.

15 posted on 09/01/2012 7:30:35 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Communist Party = Democrats. Socialist Party = Republicans. WE NEED A CAPITALIST FREEDOM PARTY!)
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To: Lazamataz

My supermarket no longer sells beef, but they will allow you to look at some for a dollar admission fee.


Can you get a lap dance?


16 posted on 09/01/2012 7:32:03 AM PDT by OwenKellogg
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To: txrefugee
He sold those water rights in June 2011, to 7 cities in the panhandle. Lake Meridith finally dried up.

And he didn't cheat anybody, they were all willing sellers

17 posted on 09/01/2012 7:32:07 AM PDT by Ben Ficklin
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To: OwenKellogg
Lap beef?

I suppose there's clubs for that, too.

18 posted on 09/01/2012 7:41:09 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Communist Party = Democrats. Socialist Party = Republicans. WE NEED A CAPITALIST FREEDOM PARTY!)
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To: Titus-Maximus

Natural gas cars are OK but a large infrastructure change. We can convert natural gas and coal to ethanol and use the ethanol in the cars we already have. Then corn can be used for food.


19 posted on 09/01/2012 7:44:30 AM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: ryan71

” Governments don’t build things, markets do. “

Pithy quote of the day. Says it all. It will work on its own, or it won’t work. Leave it alone and see what happens naturally.


20 posted on 09/01/2012 7:44:54 AM PDT by Humble Servant (Work for the most conservative one in the race, and keep up the pressure.)
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To: EBH

Being one who is definately pro-NG, simply because it will be the surest and easiest fuel we can use for transportation fuel that will make oil imports a thing of the past, I did not go along with T-Boone.

He may be right on NG and a big player in NG, but he saw the nobama libs as a path to being a really big dog, the NG Czar.

I doubt he has “learned your lesson that Washington ain’t your investment partner”. He is now seeing the handwriting on the wall that nobama is a goner and is repositioning to the right. I don’t think its anything to do with his wanting to make more money, he’s an old dude with lots of money, its he personal adulation he’s seeking.


21 posted on 09/01/2012 7:47:45 AM PDT by X-spurt (It is truly time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)
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To: Gaffer
What makes/brands??

I've never had the slightest problem with ethanol containing fuel, and I tend to drive my cars 'til the wheels fall off. Honda Civic, Toyota Corolla, Acura Integra (Honda again), and Ford Ranger (which I think is still made by Mazda) are our latest ones. I put 200K on the Ranger, 175K on the Acura, and my wife's Toyota is getting up to 100K pretty quickly (she has a rather long commute). My Civic is pretty new and my commute is rather short, so not many miles on that yet.

22 posted on 09/01/2012 7:50:46 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Bryanw92; Titus-Maximus

I’m with you. Would really like to hear some details of a 4 hour conversion.


23 posted on 09/01/2012 7:50:51 AM PDT by X-spurt (It is truly time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)
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To: Wonder Warthog
I've never had the slightest problem with ethanol containing fuel,

I haven't either, and we've had E10 fuel in Indiana since the late 1980s. The only thing I can think of is that we get a better grade of alky here in Indiana, it's all grown and processed locally.

At the end of 2011 the subsidy for domestic ethanol expired as did the tariff on imported ethanol. Ethanol plants in Indiana are closing up faster than K-marts in the 1990s. I suspect imported Brazilian sugar cane ethanol will be an increasing factor.

24 posted on 09/01/2012 7:55:16 AM PDT by nascarnation (Defeat Baraq 2012. Deport Baraq 2013)
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To: nascarnation
At the end of 2011 the subsidy for domestic ethanol expired as did the tariff on imported ethanol. Ethanol plants in Indiana are closing up faster than K-marts in the 1990s. I suspect imported Brazilian sugar cane ethanol will be an increasing factor.

Do you know if that is what was behind the batch of bad gas recently at BP in northwestern Indiana? I never did hear what the cause was supposed to be.
25 posted on 09/01/2012 7:57:24 AM PDT by aruanan
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To: aruanan; thackney

No, nothing to do with ethanol.

“a higher than normal level of polymeric residue”

Maybe FReeper petro expert Thackney can explain this.


26 posted on 09/01/2012 8:00:29 AM PDT by nascarnation (Defeat Baraq 2012. Deport Baraq 2013)
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To: Wonder Warthog

2005 Honda Accord, 2009 Honda Accord, 2010 Ford F-150. ALL had the same codes, an O2 sensor in the exhaust chain leading some to believe the catalytic convertor is going bad.

If you google 02 sensors and ethanol, you’d be likely to run across a term “wide-band” 02 Sensor and ethanol’s effects on it....

You won’t find much else because the ethanol industry doesn’t like publicity about ethanol destroying seals, gaskets, O rings, fuel lines, and sensor, etc.....

I finally quit using QTrip because a mech engineer friend told me they’ve been caught using much more ethanol in their gas than they report (up to 10% is their limit).....

I found that using brands of gas that aren’t discount like Q and Racetrak, my sensor trips are not near as frequent....

Three cars/trucks - same problems in 5 years....that’s not chance...


27 posted on 09/01/2012 8:00:31 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Hojczyk
Natural gas isn't best for everything. It isn't good for cars & trucks. It's great for space & water heating. It's great for cooking. It is great for electricity production.

It's just not great for vehicles. If all the items listed above (and many more) are switched over to NG, there would be barrels of oil available for gasoline and diesel, driving prices down.

LNG vehicles have far less engine power.
They require their own fueling stations.
They require large storage vessels (remember you still have a gasoline tank also)
They have limited range, more energy per unit with gasoline.

WE DON'T NEED THEM. Switch OTHER oil users to NG and there would be a glut (remember we have huge oil reserves as well, pun intended) of oil for vehicles.

Use our energy reserves WISELY. In a place where wind blows 24/7, put up windmills, but we don't want one on the top of The Statue of Liberty (or many other places).

ENERGY INDEPENDENCE is critical.

I remember waiting in gas lines. I remember having to stay home because it was the wrong odd/even day.

Do the Muslim Islamists love us more NOW? Are they in control of or have influence over fewer countries NOW?
I'd rather pay $4 a gallon for AMERICAN oil. While we do not get a majority of our energy from the Middle East, WHY DO WE GET ANY? WHY ARE WE SENDING THEM BILLIONS OF OUR DOLLARS?

Romney is right. We can be energy independent in a few years, LET'S GET STARTED!

28 posted on 09/01/2012 8:01:59 AM PDT by faucetman ( Just the facts, ma'am, Just the facts)
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To: Titus-Maximus
I know that nat-gas is great, but Pickens was and is a scamming a-hole that tried to rip off ranchers then use the government to get a leg up on the competition by mouthing the eco bullsh#t. I can only hope that he develops Obama's pooh-finger and everything he touches turns to sh#t.

I have friends who have ranches near Pearsall and San Angelo who use nat-gas on their trucks.

29 posted on 09/01/2012 8:26:48 AM PDT by Dick Vomer (democrats are like flies, whatever they don't eat they sh#t on.)
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To: Hojczyk
“We are thrilled to hear that T. Boone Pickens has thrown in the towel on the NAT GAS Act. It was a classic example of the federal government attempting to pick winners and losers within an industry and that’s why the ACU fought so hard against this misguided policy. ACU will continue to monitor this legislation and will act swiftly to make sure that the NAT GAS Act does not go anywhere”

BTTT

30 posted on 09/01/2012 8:27:20 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: faucetman
Switch OTHER oil users to NG

Not a lot of large users of petroleum refined products that easily switch to Natural Gas outside of the transportation industry.


click to enlarge and see notes

31 posted on 09/01/2012 8:33:04 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Dick Vomer
Pickens lost money. My family has a ranch in Texas. Pickens people came to my folks and others, buying up right-of-way for transmission lines and pads for windmills. We were paid $30k for one pad and ROW. A nearby large ranch got paid for seven pads and ROW. Everyone in the area got a letter about 3 weeks ago saying the project was being dropped.

The money stays with us. He also had to pay for research, surveys and for people to do all the paperwork involved. Yeah, he lost some money there.

By the way, did you know that windmills kill more than birds? They wipe out bats too. The bats can miss the blades easily, but the turbulence crushes their lungs and snuff them out. Bats are important due to the large numbers of insects (like mosquitoes) they eat.

32 posted on 09/01/2012 8:34:31 AM PDT by SaxxonWoods (....The days are long, but the years are short.....)
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To: SaxxonWoods
Windmills blow.

We use to see nig rigs hauling the enormous blades on their flatbeds on I-20 heading West through DFW. Haven't see one in more than a year. Good riddance.

33 posted on 09/01/2012 8:41:35 AM PDT by Dysart
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To: Hojczyk

Fantasy: Thorium powered (for the heat) gas to liquids process that uses NG and coal (as feed stock) in a Fisher-Tropsch process to produce liquid fuels.


34 posted on 09/01/2012 8:44:11 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: IbJensen

I’ve seen him on Cavuto several times and he does not come off as a fool. He is a pretty shrewd businessman.

First, he doesn’t like to have money laying around. He likes to put it to work. He likes to try to make it grow.

Second, he is an oil man. He likes to use the knowledge he has to guide his investments. Third, he is a Texan. He sees in Texas properties others might not see from the ivory towers of Wall Street.

He sees opportunity by going with the current political flow. He sees opportunity by directing the flow. That is the American way.

He looks to the future 5 or perhaps 25 years rather than 90 days. He is old and would like to direct the flow of his gas investments to a more immediate payoff to be able to not only see it but to have the satisfaction.

I really enjoy hearing him go on. Cavuto gets him started and lets him go. He is sharp and answers the devil’s advocate queries with disdainful relish.


35 posted on 09/01/2012 8:44:27 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Present failure and impending death yield irrational action))
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To: bert

He is, however, a certified windmill nut.


36 posted on 09/01/2012 9:18:19 AM PDT by IbJensen (Since light travels faster than sound, some people appear bright until you hear them speak.)
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To: bert

FYI...T Boone is not a Texan. He’s an Okie.


37 posted on 09/01/2012 10:17:25 AM PDT by A_Tradition_Continues (formerly known as Politicalwit ...05/28/98 Class of '98)
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To: Gaffer
"2005 Honda Accord, 2009 Honda Accord, 2010 Ford F-150. ALL had the same codes, an O2 sensor in the exhaust chain leading some to believe the catalytic convertor is going bad.

Hmmmm.....my Civic is a 2009. What symptoms did you have?? I wonder if this is a sensor supplier problem/bad batch. It can't be a generic ethanol problem, because too many other cars have/do run just fine with "gasohol".

My Civic has one "glitch".....when cold, it tends to "stutter" somewhat during somewhat rapid acceleration (not "floorboarding"....just "running up through the gears"...rpm might hit 5000 (8000 redline)). As long as I keep it to 3000 rpm max until it fully warms up, it is just fine. I have attributed it to the fact that the Civic is an SI and requires premium gas (and yes, I bought it for my second "teen-age hood"). Six-speed tranny and all the "bells and whistles". I still haven't figured out all the stuff the sound system can do. It's better than the one in my house!

38 posted on 09/01/2012 10:27:41 AM PDT by Wonder Warthog
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To: Bryanw92

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000083113

Rick Santelli of CNBC is part of the conversion.

There are plenty of people doing this.


39 posted on 09/02/2012 7:38:33 AM PDT by Titus-Maximus (Light from Light)
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To: Titus-Maximus; Bryanw92; X-spurt

A man converts his Lexus to Nat Gas for $1000
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYP2ZRwq9EE

The downside is a bigger tank, but the comment that the car has no power is not real. Plenty of people are already doing this.

Natural gas is already in the home. People have small compressors that do 1 gallon per hour, which takes about 8 hours to fill the tank. The government does not allow compressed natural gas stored in the home - this makes no sense since they allow a 3600 PSI tank to be in your car in your garage. If they allowed you to fill a tank in your home, you could migrate the gas to your car in minutes.

There are over 1000 natural gas stations in the US and more and more are being built.

Natural gas does not have to be refined, it is cleaner than gasoline. The downside is energy density but the savings in cost is huge.

Taxis, buses, garbage trucks, fleets are all converting by building their own gas stations. Compression is expensive but still cheaper than gasoline.

GO to CNGNOW - a website dedicate to Compressed natural gas and they were at the Republican Convention as well.

http://www.cngnow.com/Pages/information.aspx


40 posted on 09/02/2012 8:04:31 AM PDT by Titus-Maximus
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To: Titus-Maximus
The government does not allow compressed natural gas stored in the home - this makes no sense since they allow a 3600 PSI tank to be in your car in your garage.

It makes a lot of sense to me. I work in the oil/gas industry and I value the lives of my family.

If they allowed you to fill a tank in your home, you could migrate the gas to your car in minutes.

And just how do you think that magic would occur? Do you have a compressor of a couple thousand horsepower or do you already have the gas storage of thousands of pounds of pressure in your house?

Natural gas does not have to be refined,

It has too be processed. Wellhead natural gas contains many contaminants that have to be removed to become pipeline/consumer quality gas.

http://www.naturalgas.org/naturalgas/production.asp

Natural Gas is a good energy source, very cost effective but let us not pretend it is magic.

41 posted on 09/02/2012 8:35:52 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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To: Titus-Maximus

Very good info. Thanks!

“Natural gas does not have to be refined”, technically correct although usually NG requires cleaning up to remove all the other fluids and gasses that come out of the ground with methane.

The renewable landfill methane gas includes significant quantities of H2S and water moisture which require more cleaning than in-ground NG.

Many of us living rural do not have NG piped to us, maybe someday as its only about a mile up the road. 8 hour refill time overnight is no worse than a damn electric that’ll only go 40 miles.

Many of us rural folks are stuck with propane which price fluctuates significantly and is not unusually subject to local supplier gouging. Propane pricing runs up due to price of gasoline (used to boost octane), winter usage run-up and now the proposed use of propane for shale fracing fluid. Otherwise it would be practically equal to NG for transportation.


42 posted on 09/02/2012 8:36:09 AM PDT by X-spurt (It is truly time for ON YOUR FEET or on your knees)
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To: thackney

No one is saying its magic.

Engineers have told me there is no difference in safety between allowing a CNG tank in your car stored in your garage, and having a tank in your home. So if the government says it is safe enough to have in your car - where you drive around at high speeds on a highway, and then store it in your garage, it should be safe enough to put it underground and at a higher pressure. (Natural gas is safer than gasoline for driving!)

Compressors are expensive - but GE is now working on one for the home and they will bring the price way down. This is already happening.

Processing natural gas, is no where near the cost of refining oil, and no where near the environmental nightmare of building a refinery. To say those things are equivalent is totally wrong!


43 posted on 09/03/2012 6:48:42 AM PDT by Titus-Maximus
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To: Titus-Maximus

The concern is not the tank with no moving parts, but the compressor with a rotating seal.


44 posted on 09/03/2012 7:18:02 AM PDT by thackney (life is fragile, handle with prayer)
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