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Farm worker and wife arrested after burglars shot (4 burglers broke in -- UK)
Uk Telegraph ^ | Sept 2, 2012 | Nick Britten

Posted on 09/03/2012 2:23:02 PM PDT by Innovative

The man is believed to have grabbed a legally owned gun after they were disturbed by the break-in early yesterday.

He is understood to have fired at the intruders who then fled the isolated house at Melton Mowbray, Leics, before calling the police.

Minutes later, an ambulance was called to treat a man with gunshot injuries nearby. It is understood that call was made by one of the suspected burglars.

A second man was later treated for gunshot injuries after arriving at Leicester Royal Infirmary, 10 miles from the scene of the shooting. Neither of the men is said to be seriously injured.

Yesterday the home owner and his wife were arrested on suspicion of causing grievous bodily harm. Four men, understood to be the suspected burglars, were also arrested.

(Excerpt) Read more at telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: banglist; crime; selfdefense
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The couple should get a medal, not thrown in jail!
1 posted on 09/03/2012 2:23:10 PM PDT by Innovative
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To: Innovative
Only the King's men are permitted to hunt the King's burglars!
2 posted on 09/03/2012 2:27:41 PM PDT by coloradan (The US has become a banana republic, except without the bananas - or the republic.)
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To: Innovative

This garbage keeps up, law-abiding citizens will start regarding the police as the enemy and vigilantism will become commonplace.


3 posted on 09/03/2012 2:27:47 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Innovative

Thank God for the 2nd Amendment! In Britain, self-defense is a felony?


4 posted on 09/03/2012 2:28:08 PM PDT by House Atreides
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To: House Atreides

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Martin_%28farmer%29

Pretty much, yep. Defense of your property most certainly is.

}:-)4


5 posted on 09/03/2012 2:33:14 PM PDT by Moose4 (...and walk away.)
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To: Innovative

bass-ackward


6 posted on 09/03/2012 2:33:30 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (Taranto: "The whole point of the metaphor is that if you can hear the whistle, you're the dog.")
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To: Innovative

This is a report such as Alice would have found on the other side of the Looking Glass.


7 posted on 09/03/2012 2:35:43 PM PDT by RobinOfKingston (The instinct toward liberalism is located in the part of the brain called the rectal lobe.)
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To: Moose4

4 criminals against a man and his wife — that alone should justify self defense.

What were they supposed to do, wait until the criminals kill them?!


8 posted on 09/03/2012 2:35:48 PM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: Innovative

In the UK, the burglars call the police.

It is a cross between Orwell and Monty Python.


9 posted on 09/03/2012 2:36:07 PM PDT by UnwashedPeasant
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To: Innovative

I’m thinkin they must have skipped at least one of the last two S’s.


10 posted on 09/03/2012 2:36:26 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: House Atreides
Detroit doesn't seem so bad does it?

Detroit woman shoots back at would-be carjackers(MI)
11 posted on 09/03/2012 2:36:30 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Innovative

In England you are supposed to sneak out the back and call police. It’s one dumb place to live.


12 posted on 09/03/2012 2:38:29 PM PDT by KingKongCobra
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To: UnwashedPeasant

“In the UK, the burglars call the police.”

And that’s eggs ackley what happened in this case!


13 posted on 09/03/2012 2:39:37 PM PDT by Dr. Bogus Pachysandra ( Ya can't pick up a turd by the clean end!)
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To: Innovative

In the UK, I guess so. They were supposed to call 999 (their 911) and let the burglars have the run of their house while they hid, I assume. And then if they were actually physically threatened *with* deadly force, MAYBE they could use deadly force in return. Maybe.

I guess in the UK the “Castle Doctrine” refers to historically preserving old stone keeps.

}:-)4


14 posted on 09/03/2012 2:40:33 PM PDT by Moose4 (...and walk away.)
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To: Innovative

Shoot, shovel and shut up.


15 posted on 09/03/2012 2:46:06 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: Innovative

No wonder the Pilgrims fled.


16 posted on 09/03/2012 2:46:21 PM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: Innovative

In the US, it is. It’s called Disparity of Force. And it applies more than just with uneven numbers.


17 posted on 09/03/2012 2:48:09 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: KingKongCobra

There are plenty of Brits who are less than thrilled with the situation. I ran into a middle aged British couple at the shooting range a couple of weeks back who were here on vacation but own a house here and intend to move here and become citizens after he retires.

Freedom is the main reason they’re coming.


18 posted on 09/03/2012 2:48:33 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: Innovative
believed to have grabbed a legally owned gun

So... it's legal to own it, but don't try to use it.

19 posted on 09/03/2012 2:49:59 PM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: Innovative

This is the definition of anarch-tyranny, it is what the Left wishes to bring to us, and have in many places in the country.


20 posted on 09/03/2012 2:52:21 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: House Atreides

Just hope and pray that the 2nd Amendment will never be rescinded as the UN and Obama would like to see it done. And don’t expect our spineless Congress to stop Obama.

Just imagine the sudden exponential increase in the crime rate. This country will become unlivable when only the lawless are armed.


21 posted on 09/03/2012 2:53:58 PM PDT by 353FMG (The US Constitution is only as good as those who enforce it.)
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To: Olog-hai
This garbage keeps up, law-abiding citizens will start regarding the police as the enemy and vigilantism will become commonplace

What do you mean "start"?

22 posted on 09/03/2012 2:54:09 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: Innovative

Standard procedure is to arrest in this case. An arrest over here is different to an arrest in the US. There is no permanent record of arrest for one thing.
The couple will be found to be acting in self-defence and no charges will be pressed.

Interestingly, the coalition govt. is issuing new guidance on exactly this kind of case in the autumn. It is said to be aiming to rid homeowners of the perceived notion you can’t use force to defend your home.

Also interestingly, the couple’s MP has spoken publicly saying that no charges should be pressed. This is not a minority view over here, despite what you may be led to believe.


23 posted on 09/03/2012 3:03:05 PM PDT by Mitch86
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To: Mitch86

This is not a minority view over here, despite what you may be led to believe.

&&&
Thank you. So glad to read that.

But wasn’t there a case a few years ago in which a farmer was jailed for killing someone who broke into his home?


24 posted on 09/03/2012 3:22:36 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Pray for our republic.)
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To: Izzy Dunne

Seem that I read once that farmers are allowed to own

a rifle to defend against wild animals attacking their

cows or goats etc

Not for use against wild animals breaking down their

door in a home invasion

England is bull that has been castrated long ago


25 posted on 09/03/2012 3:33:09 PM PDT by Harold Shea (RVN `70 - `71)
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To: Mitch86

“Standard procedure is to arrest in this case. An arrest over here is different to an arrest in the US. There is no permanent record of arrest for one thing.”

...And in the meantime a law abiding couple is locked up in prison with a bunch of criminals, no problem at all! (/sarc)


26 posted on 09/03/2012 3:41:18 PM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: Mitch86

“The case will reignite the debate over a householder’s right to defend his property, which began in the late 1990s after the farmer Tony Martin shot two burglars at his remote Norfolk home. In 1999, Martin fired at Brendan Fearon, 29, and Fred Barras, 16, after they broke into the house in Emneth Hungate.

Three shots were fired, Barras was hit in the back and despite escaping through a window died moments later. Martin was convicted of murder and jailed for life, which was reduced on appeal to manslaughter and five years’ jail.

In 2009, the millionaire businessman Munir Hussain fought back with a metal pole and a cricket bat against a knife-wielding burglar who tied up his family at their home in Buckinghamshire. Hussain was jailed for two and a half years, despite his attacker being spared prison.

Appeal judges reduced the sentence to a year’s jail, suspended. “

Lovely!


27 posted on 09/03/2012 3:45:04 PM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: Innovative
Hello 9-11, What is your emergency?

>I've been shot.

Where are you?

>I don't know, some stranger's home I was burglarizing.

And you were shot?

>Yes, Ma'am. ...they had guns in their home.

Calm down, I'm sending an ambulance and lawyer to immediately assist you.

No worries mate, we know how to handle their kind.

28 posted on 09/03/2012 3:45:15 PM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: Bigg Red
That happened to one of Obama's buddies at Harvard. Henry Louis Gates lost/misplaced his key/lost his key/drinking again/something decided to go ahead and pry open his door.

The neighbors called 911. One thing led to another and he got arrested in his own living room ~ in the future the cops aren't going to respond to any 911 calls from that house!

29 posted on 09/03/2012 4:06:01 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: elkfersupper

How commonplace is vigilantism?

And I don’t mean the “no-go” Sharia areas.


30 posted on 09/03/2012 4:07:43 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Mitch86

Thanks for the info. I lived in Reading for a year, so have firsthand experience on the craziness of the UK, so its nice to read your post. You don’t by any chance play guitar for Napalm Death, do you? :)


31 posted on 09/03/2012 4:13:24 PM PDT by lefty-lie-spy (Stay metal. For the Horde \m/("_")\m/ - via iPhone from Tokyo.)
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To: Mitch86

Those of us who are in ‘the know’, remember the case of the British farmer Anthony Edward “Tony” Martin (55), [1999] who after multiple burglaries of his home, shot 3 times in the dark down the stairs and killed a 16 yo burglar, Fred Barras and wounded his mate, Brendon Fearon (29), with birdshot from a pump shotgun. It later turned out that Mr Barras had been arrested 29 times before and was on bail from a previous arrest.

Mr Fearon (29), got 3 years of imprisonment, but only served 20 months and later tried to bring civil suit against this farmer (using $7,500+ public funds) until returned to jail from a later auto theft and dropping the suit in return for Mr Martin dropping his counter-suit.

Mr Martin, on the other hand, ended up convicted of murder and sentenced to Life for Mr Barras and 10 years for wounding Mr Fearon. After appeals and reductions, he ended up serving 3 years in prison.

I think that this cause celeb case has provoked reforms but for us poor Colonials, we regard it as a travesty! Britain/England has gone far too far in the protection of the criminal and in punishing the victim. So when we hear of an arrest in a case like this, it seems to us a travesty of justice!


32 posted on 09/03/2012 4:17:52 PM PDT by SES1066 (Government is NOT the reason for my existence!)
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To: Innovative; Bigg Red
But wasn’t there a case a few years ago in which a farmer was jailed for killing someone who broke into his home?

Innovative was a faster poster than I, BUT I have more detail (#32) [grin]! It was/is a case that we here in the former Colonies, would regard as a total miscarriage of justice, yet it happened!

33 posted on 09/03/2012 4:24:49 PM PDT by SES1066 (Government is NOT the reason for my existence!)
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To: Still Thinking
I’m thinkin they must have skipped at least one of the last two S’s.

I'm thinking they should have been better on the first one.

34 posted on 09/03/2012 4:28:27 PM PDT by bgill
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To: SES1066

Okay, thanks for the info.

Prayers for Britain. May they and we do what needs to be done, i.e., dump all of the leftist garbage and get back to Judeo-Christian principles.


35 posted on 09/03/2012 4:37:52 PM PDT by Bigg Red (Pray for our republic.)
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To: bgill

After further review of the story (reading it and not just the headline), you are correct. OTOH, I can envision scenarios in which prompt application of S2 and S3 could compensate for less than perfect execution of S1. ;)


36 posted on 09/03/2012 5:12:22 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: Innovative

“What were they supposed to do, wait until the criminals kill them?!”

Apparently so.

From the linked article:

“In 2009, the millionaire businessman Munir Hussain fought back with a metal pole and a cricket bat against a knife-wielding burglar who tied up his family at their home in Buckinghamshire. Hussain was jailed for two and a half years, despite his attacker being spared prison.

Appeal judges reduced the sentence to a year’s jail, suspended.

The case prompted David Cameron to announce that home owners and shopkeepers would have the right to protect themselves against burglars and robbers. “

GOOD GAWD. Fight back against a knife-wielding criminal that tied up your family and go to prison. . .whereas the thug goes free (no prison time).


37 posted on 09/03/2012 5:26:29 PM PDT by Hulka
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To: Mitch86

M86, your information is encouraging. Thanks! Hope it works out for the good folks.


38 posted on 09/03/2012 5:30:57 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Dick Obama is more inexperienced now than he was before he was elected.)
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To: Innovative

Serious question: If they are going to be thrown in jail for self-defense, what is the disincentive from having people shoot their future jailers when they arrive on scene eating donuts?


39 posted on 09/03/2012 5:55:02 PM PDT by Red in Blue PA (Read SCOTUS Castle Rock vs Gonzales before dialing 911!)
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To: Innovative; Olog-hai; House Atreides; Moose4; NonValueAdded; RobinOfKingston; UnwashedPeasant; ...

I have posted this many times here, but as no one seems to take it in Stateside, I will say it again.

The reason the homeowners have been ‘arrested’ is because that is the British procedure where a burglary has been committed and the burglar has been killed or injured. It dosent happen unless the burglar/s get killed or injured.

Everyone involved gets arrested (briefly) until the police sort out the facts. In 99% of cases, the homeowners are questioned at the station and released within a hour or two.
Think of it as a purely procedural and technical arrest.

Think of it as a quirk, an odd way, but it dosent actually punish homeowners. It sounds and reads much worse than it is.

BTW, I am a victim of burglary in the UK (Sept 2008) in which I used violence to subdue the burglar (jailed for 44 months), so I KNOW the issue better than anyone here. And no I wasnt arrested, I was questioned in my own flat, and spoke further to the police at my own leisure.


40 posted on 09/03/2012 7:14:43 PM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: Innovative; SES1066

The ‘problem’ with Tony Martin was that he shot the scumbags in the back at a distance as they were running away from his house, so the court deemed that that didnt come under the British definition of reasonable force. Had he simply shot them in the house, he’d never have been charged. Also the fact the gun was illegally owned by him didnt help.

IMO, if he had to be charged, he should have received a suspended sentence. In other words, a technical crime, but sensibly no jail time.


41 posted on 09/03/2012 7:18:00 PM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: the scotsman

I recommend you read the rest of the article where they give two other specific instances where the homeowners received jail terms for self defense.

Also, an arrest is an arrest or are you telling us they put up the homeowners in a 5-star hotel instead of stick them in jail with real criminals?


42 posted on 09/03/2012 7:19:52 PM PDT by Innovative ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: the scotsman
No, I have not been privy to your posts on the subject. I’ve never heard of homeowners ever getting arrested in the USA for protecting their own property; the police are not expected to handle everything. If they are, then beware, because that’s the attitude of a burgeoning police state, which indicates that the European Union’s influence has gotten too strong and that your property is no longer your own but a form of “socialist property”.
43 posted on 09/03/2012 7:25:02 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Innovative

And I have explained why a TINY amount of Brits have received jail terms for defending themselves. Because they didnt act in reasonable force.

I will give an example: there was a UK-Asian man whose self defence was to chase the burglar a mile, and then have his two sons hold him down as he drove over him. Needless to say, the court didnt find his actions legitimate self defence.

BTW, your average UK police station is quite cosy and the arrested people will go no further than a interview room with a table and a cup of tea. Arrest dosent mean they will be put in a cell. They will be in reception or an interview room until allowed to go home.


44 posted on 09/03/2012 7:27:51 PM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: Olog-hai

There have been many threads on this, and I have posted on them, and I am sure most here have read them before. I get fed up posting the same facts every so often. As is human nature.


45 posted on 09/03/2012 7:31:44 PM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: the scotsman

OK, thanks for the clarification/additional info.


46 posted on 09/03/2012 7:39:53 PM PDT by House Atreides
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To: the scotsman

There’s always someone who missed it.

If everyone could absorb facts so rapidly and universally, teachers would be out of business.


47 posted on 09/03/2012 7:59:45 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: the scotsman

Ah, I see. So “arrest” in the UK is basically the same as “brought in for questioning” over here, by what you’re saying. Thanks for the information!

}:-)4


48 posted on 09/04/2012 4:35:00 AM PDT by Moose4 (...and walk away.)
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To: the scotsman

Thank you, I’ve missed the previous postings, but I got this one.

And it makes sense. :-)


49 posted on 09/04/2012 7:18:06 AM PDT by cuban leaf (Were doomed! Details at eleven.)
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To: cripplecreek
There are plenty of Brits who are less than thrilled with the situation.

They made a film about it.


50 posted on 09/04/2012 7:28:57 AM PDT by Drew68 (I WILL vote to defeat Barack Hussein Obama!)
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