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NRA-ILA's Chris Cox goes one on one with Governor Romney
Buckeye Firerams Association ^ | 5 September,2012 | Chris Cox

Posted on 09/07/2012 1:54:04 PM PDT by marktwain

This year’s election is going to define the future of our freedom, perhaps more than any other in our history.

For gun owners, there are a number of areas crucial to the survival of our Second Amendment rights. That’s why I took the time to visit with Mitt Romney, the Republican presidential nominee, to find out precisely where he stands on the issues of concern to gun owners.

Chris W. Cox: First, let me start with the most basic question of all. In the 2008 case District of Columbia v. Heller, and in the 2010 case McDonald v. City of Chicago, the U.S. Supreme Court—by a 5-4 majority—held that the Second Amendment guarantees the fundamental, individual right of all law-abiding Americans to keep and bear arms. Do you agree that the Second Amendment protects a fundamental, individual right to own and use firearms for all lawful purposes?

Gov. Mitt Romney: Absolutely, and I was pleased when the Court finally rendered a clear and concise decision on this critical issue. The Second Amendment is essential to our free society. I strongly support the right of all law-abiding Americans to exercise their constitutionally protected right to own firearms and to use them for lawful purposes, including self-defense; the protection of family and property; hunting and recreational shooting.

Cox: Obviously, America’s 100 million gun owners are very concerned that their Second Amendment rights hang in the balance at the U.S. Supreme Court by just one vote. President Obama’s two nominees to the Court so far—Justices Sotomayor and Kagan—have a history of anti-gun opinions and activism. And some have predicted that if Barack Obama is re-elected, he may have the opportunity to nominate several more justices to the Court. As president, if you had the opportunity, what type of individuals would you nominate to the Supreme Court? And which of the justices currently serving on the Court would you consider to be the best models of your judicial philosophy?

Gov. Romney: Chris, I believe the next president could indeed have the opportunity to shape the Court for decades to come, and that’s a key reason why the tens of millions of Americans who support the NRA should support my candidacy. My view of the Constitution is straightforward: Its words have meaning. The founders adopted a written constitution for a reason. They intended to limit the powers of government. The job of a judge is to enforce the Constitution’s restraints on government and, where the Constitution does not speak, to leave the governance of the nation to its elected representatives. I believe in the rule of law, and I will appoint wise, experienced and restrained judges who take seriously their oath to discharge their duties impartially in accordance with our Constitution and our laws—not their personal policy preferences.

Cox: Let’s do a quick rundown of where you stand on some gun laws our opponents have been pushing for many years. Do you support additional federal regulation of gun shows?

Gov. Romney: I do not support further federal regulation of gun shows. There are tens of thousands of gun shows in local communities every year. Gun shows are not only an opportunity for millions of law-abiding Americans to exercise their Second Amendment rights, but also their First Amendment right to assemble and speak. Anti-gun organizations have perpetrated this myth that somehow laws don’t apply at gun shows and that’s nonsense. All sales from federal firearm licensees are regulated no matter where they take place, and private sales are regulated at gun shows just as they are anywhere else.

Cox: Gun owner licensing?

Gov. Romney: That’s another solution in search of a problem. I do support the current National Instant Check System, because it simply verifies that a gun buyer is not disqualified under cur- rent law. Adding an arbitrary, costly and bureaucratic licensing scheme on top of that would be wasteful and wrong.

Cox: Federal gun registration?

Gov. Romney: Like the majority of Americans, I do not believe that the United States needs more laws that restrict Second Amendment rights. I also recognize the extraordinary number of jobs and other economic benefits that are produced by hunting, recreational shooting, and the firearms and ammunition industry, not the least of which is to fund wildlife and habitat conservation. But I do not support adding more laws and regulations that would burden law-abiding citizens and would be ignored by criminals.

Cox: The United Nations has been conducting serious negotiations on a treaty that would likely impose significant regulation of private gun ownership in the United States. The Bush administration strongly opposed this effort as an infringement on American sovereignty. How would a Romney administration approach this issue?

Gov. Romney: I am troubled by this. In foreign policy, I am guided by one overwhelming conviction: This century must be an American Century. In an American Century, America has the strongest economy and the strongest military in the world. In an American Century, America leads the free world. God did not create this country to be a nation of followers. America must lead the world, or someone else will. Without American leadership, without the clarity of American purpose and resolve, the world becomes a far more dangerous place. Let me make this very clear. As president of the United States, I will devote myself to those ideas, and I will never, ever apologize for America. So by the same token, I will never support or enforce any treaty that attempts to restrict our fundamental rights, or tries to “harmonize” our constitutional rights with all of the less-free nations in the world.

Cox: Would you support legislation to provide national reciprocity for Right-to-Carry permit holders so that they can protect themselves when they’re traveling outside their home states?

Gov. Romney: Absolutely. Fundamental rights don’t disappear when we cross state borders, and self-defense is a fundamental right.

Cox: Would you support the reimposition of a federal ban on semi-automatic firearms incorrectly called “assault weapons?”

Gov. Romney: No. I do not support any additional laws to restrict the right to keep and bear arms.

Cox: As governor, you signed a major bill reforming Massachusetts’ gun registration and licensing laws. Some in the media and elsewhere claim this bill was a reauthorization of the semi-auto ban in Massachusetts. What’s your response?

Gov. Romney: As governor of Massachusetts, I was proud to support legislation that expanded the rights of gun owners. I worked hard to advance the ability of law-abiding citizens to purchase and own firearms, while opposing liberal desires to create bureaucracy intended to burden gun owners and sportsmen. As governor, I also designated May 7 as “The Right to Bear Arms Day” in Massachusetts to honor law-abiding citizens and their right to “use firearms in defense of their families, persons and property for all lawful purposes, including common defense.”

The bill you mention was supported by your state NRA affiliate because it expanded the rights of Massachusetts gun owners. The NRA said at the time that it included “the greatest set of firearm law reforms since the passage of the Commonwealth’s worst-in-the- nation gun laws … a breath of fresh air for law-abiding gun owners.” While not perfect legislation, I agreed with that description of the bill, and that’s why I signed it into law.

Cox: America has a proud hunting tradition. One of the biggest problems facing hunters is finding land where they can hunt. The NRA has worked for a number of years to open as much federal land to hunting as possible. What would you do as president to address this issue?

Gov. Romney: I will work with the Congress to pass legislation to make clear that public lands should be open for hunting unless there’s a legitimate reason otherwise. I also plan to address the regulatory aspect of this issue by nominating people to key positions who support our proud hunting heritage, and understand that hunters are the original conservationists.

Cox: Over the past few years, drug cartel violence along the Southwest border has created significant problems for law enforcement, and has been used by anti-gun politicians in both the U.S. and Mexico as an excuse to call for more American gun laws. How would you deal with the violence in Mexico and its impact in the U.S.?

Gov. Romney: Our border with Mexico remains an ongoing problem, posing serious questions for America’s future. Will drug cartels dominate Mexico’s border region, with greater and greater violence spilling over into our country? And will drug smugglers and terrorists increasingly make their way to our side of the border? These are only some of the very real dangers that America faces, if we continue the policies of the past three years. But it doesn’t have to be this way. We are a democracy. We decide. Your members decide. America’s 100 million gun owners decide. I will offer a very different vision of America’s role in the world and of America’s destiny than what we’ve seen during the past three and a half years.

Cox: One part of the current administration’s policies to deal with Mexican crime was the “Fast & Furious” program. This has turned into a serious scandal. As president, how would you respond if this occurred during your administration? And how would you prevent this kind of disaster in the future?

Gov. Romney: I don’t want to wait until after the election. This problem needs to be addressed right now. I support the language in the current Justice Department appropriations bill to absolutely prohibit this kind of operation. And unlike Barack Obama, I would not support repealing that language in the future.

Cox: Attorney General Holder has steadfastly refused to cooperate with the congressional investigation into “Fast & Furious.” Do you believe Holder should resign or be fired due to his actions?

Gov. Romney: If there is the remotest possibility that our nation’s top prosecu- tors have suppressed evidence that they supported this outrageous operation, then someone has to be held account- able. And I believe that’s where this is headed, so yes, I believe it’s time for Eric Holder to go.

Cox: The NRA has always said that passing more gun control laws will not reduce violent crime. We think the solution to this issue is prosecuting criminals who illegally misuse firearms. But in the Obama administration, prosecutions of criminals who misuse firearms are at the lowest point in the last 10 years. What do you believe is the most effective method for reducing crime?

Gov. Romney: My position is simple: I will enforce the laws already on the books and punish, to the fullest extent of the law, criminals who misuse firearms to commit crimes. I will also provide law enforcement with the proper and effective resources they need to deter, apprehend and punish criminals.

Cox: One of the key areas where presi- dents can affect the Second Amendment rights of Americans is in the people they appoint to key positions. As president, will you appoint people who agree with your position that the Second Amendment guarantees a fundamental, individual right, particularly to the office of attorney general and other Cabinet level appointments, as well as positions that directly impact gun owners such as the director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives?

Gov. Romney: That’s a basic starting point, yes. If elected president, yes, I will nominate people who agree that the Second Amendment guarantees a fundamental, individual right and are prepared to implement them throughout government, from the Cabinet level on down.

Cox: Aside from the specific issues, is there anything you’d like to tell our members about the stakes in this election for gun owners and hunters?

Gov. Romney: I do. I believe we are an exceptional country with a unique destiny and role in the world. We are exceptional because we are a nation founded on a precious idea that was born in the American Revolution. We are a people who threw off the yoke of tyranny and established a government of the people, by the people and for the people. We are a people who, in the language of our Declaration of Independence, hold certain truths to be self-evident; namely, that all men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights. That sets us apart from the rest of the world, and we don’t need to apologize for it. We should be proud of it. I hope to serve as your president to continue in that proud tradition. We need a president who will stand up for the rights of those who simply want to protect themselves, their families and their homes and who want to continue America’s rich hunting heritage. President Obama has not, but I will. The choice is clear. I hope your members will support me, and I respectfully ask for their votes on Election Day.

Cox: Governor Romney, thank you for your time and for your support of gun owners’ rights. Good luck in November.

© 2012 National Rifle Association of America. Institute for Legislative Action. This may be reproduced. It may not be reproduced for commercial purposes.

Additional Information: The Romney Record - A Look at Governor Mitt Romney's Record as Governor of Massachusetts as it Relates to the Gun Owners and Sportsmen of Our State - Prepared by: Gun Owners’ Action League (GOAL) - February 2007


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: banglist; election; nra; romney
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Worth holding on to.
1 posted on 09/07/2012 1:54:10 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Apparently he’s happy with the gun laws we have.

I’d like to ask the question, are there any he’d like to repeal or roll back?

I will never forget that he lied about being a gun owner.


2 posted on 09/07/2012 2:00:40 PM PDT by DBrow
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To: DBrow

You have a choice. Choose between a KNOW gun-grabber and guy who operates OUTSIDE the Constitution, and who brainstormed “Fast and Furious” and supports the UN anti-gun International Agreement AND a guy who SAYS he is your friend.

Like it or not - its a NO-BRAINER!!!!!!!


3 posted on 09/07/2012 2:05:58 PM PDT by ZULU (See: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=D9vQt6IXXaM&hd)
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To: marktwain

I stopped reading after the NICS / gunshow answers. NICS is insidious, and regulation of private sales - gunshows, can’t realistically happen without registration. Or at least one would be meaningless without the other.


4 posted on 09/07/2012 2:07:27 PM PDT by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: marktwain
Let's hold him to these words.
Romney is good at saying the right things and he knows who was asking the questions.

5 posted on 09/07/2012 2:07:27 PM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: marktwain

Mitt in 2012:
.........................

Cox: As governor, you signed a major bill reforming Massachusetts’ gun registration and licensing laws. Some in the media and elsewhere claim this bill was a reauthorization of the semi-auto ban in Massachusetts. What’s your response?

Gov. Romney: As governor of Massachusetts, I was proud to support legislation that expanded the rights of gun owners. I worked hard to advance the ability of law-abiding citizens to purchase and own firearms, while opposing liberal desires to create bureaucracy intended to burden gun owners and sportsmen. As governor, I also designated May 7 as “The Right to Bear Arms Day” in Massachusetts to honor law-abiding citizens and their right to “use firearms in defense of their families, persons and property for all lawful purposes, including common defense.”

The bill you mention was supported by your state NRA affiliate because it expanded the rights of Massachusetts gun owners. The NRA said at the time that it included “the greatest set of firearm law reforms since the passage of the Commonwealth’s worst-in-the- nation gun laws … a breath of fresh air for law-abiding gun owners.” While not perfect legislation, I agreed with that description of the bill, and that’s why I signed it into law.

.................................................

But Romney, at the time, thought he was extending the assault weapons ban, as he said on Hannity and Colmes in 2004:

“PAT HALPIN, GUEST CO-HOST: Governor, let’s talk about AK-47’s. The assault weapons ban is set to expire in the middle of September. It seems that Bush is doing nothing about that. The Republican Congress is in concert with this. Tom DeLay and the others want to see that happen, and as a bone to the NRA.

Aren’t you concerned that terrorists and Al Qaeda, that terrorists that are here in the United States, if this thing expires, can walk down to the corner gun store and pick up an AK-47 or some other assault weapons, if the Republican Congress doesn’t extend the assault weapons ban?

ROMNEY: I don’t think for a minute the terrorists were planning on bringing down the government of the United States and bringing down our financial institutions and causing disruption of our nation are worried about picking up a pea shooter. And whether it’s a big peashooter like an AK-47 or a smaller one.

HALPIN: So are you in favor of that ban being extended or do you want to see it lapse?

ROMNEY: What they want to do is they want to attack our nation and bring down our government with an aircraft, with a bomb, with biological weapons and something of that nature.

I believe the people should have the right to bear arms, but I don’t believe that we have to have assault weapons as part of our personal arsenal.

HALPIN: So you’re...

ROMNEY: In my state I just signed a piece of legislation extending the ban on certain assault weapons in our state.”
..............................
More at link.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/2004/08/05/republican-grows-massachusetts?page=3

.............
And, according to the Boston Globe, when he signed the bill (that everyone now insists is NOT an assault weapons ban), he said, “”These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people.”

.........................

Let us hope that he stands by his current statements about RKBA when he’s president.


6 posted on 09/07/2012 2:16:35 PM PDT by DBrow
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To: marktwain

This should be a no-brainer. Given the statements of Mitt Romney in this interview with Chris Cox, should they vote GOP on November 6th, stay home and sit on their hands, or vote for that filthy 0bamugabe and his gun grabbing goons?

I think this was a great interview and Romney apparently believes strongly in the Second Amendment.


7 posted on 09/07/2012 2:37:19 PM PDT by mkjessup (Finley Peter Dunne - "Politics ain't beanbag")
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To: marktwain

Romney is not ideal but he is way better than the alternative. I cannot imagine why a gun owner would vote for Obama.


8 posted on 09/07/2012 2:43:52 PM PDT by zagger
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To: Joe Brower; Travis McGee

ping


9 posted on 09/07/2012 2:57:09 PM PDT by MestaMachine (obama kills and bo stinks)
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To: mkjessup

“and Romney apparently believes strongly in the Second Amendment.”

I agree, now he says he does. I don’t trust Obama at all with RKBA.


10 posted on 09/07/2012 3:52:53 PM PDT by DBrow
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To: mkjessup

Romney has a tendency to “ always believe strongly”, as well as claim to be a “severe conservative”, while leaving a bright trail of just the opposite in MASS. We have not a thread of conservative evidence atteached to his record, but for his calculated choice of which ticket to run on. He chose ours. Nuts.


11 posted on 09/07/2012 4:10:27 PM PDT by RitaOK
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To: RitaOK

Rita, it’s either 0bama or Romney.

One of ‘em hates America and everything our Nation stands for.

I think most of us know which one that is.

Romney was not our first choice, but he’s the last shot we have at getting rid of that filthy Communist pig in the White House, AND the First Wookie.


12 posted on 09/07/2012 4:59:34 PM PDT by mkjessup (Finley Peter Dunne - "Politics ain't beanbag")
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To: BitWielder1

While Romney has changed positions on things in different elections, when elected he does stick to what he campaigns on quite well.


13 posted on 09/07/2012 5:12:40 PM PDT by Capt. Canuck
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To: DBrow; Captain Beyond; fieldmarshaldj
Another missing question would have been:

Black Elk: Governor Romney, did you quadruple gun licensing fees in Massachusetts?

Romney: Ummm, uh, I was etching a different sketch back then. Trust me. It won't happen again even though my lips are moving. [Etch a Sketch. Etch a Sketch. Dance to the music! OR Oooooh, I like to do a little sidestep! Now ya see me. Now ya don't!....]

14 posted on 09/07/2012 5:19:20 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline/Tomas de Torquemada Gentleman's Society: Roast 'em!)
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To: mkjessup; RitaOK; DBrow; Captain Beyond
For conservatives who ARE conservative, Mittler was NEVER our choice and never will be any more than Obozo will be. Mittler is an even more accomplished serial liar than Obozo. If he did an "interview" with National Handgun Control, Inc., he would just Etch a different Sketch and give the precise opposite answers to their questions. He does this sort of thing with such impressive ease. He was for it before he was against it before he was for it before he was against it .......... ad infinitum, ad nauseam.

Oh, wait! I am dissing mkjessup's hero right after he made the impressive and incisive argument for Romney of stringing true but trite insults at Obozo and at the First Wookie. How COULD I be sooooo insensitive????

15 posted on 09/07/2012 5:37:25 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline/Tomas de Torquemada Gentleman's Society: Roast 'em!)
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To: marktwain

Please note - our Rights are in no way dependent on the USSC votes or Opinions. Should they wish to modify our Constitution, we gave them the means to do that which has been used 33 times with 27 having been granted our approval - a ratified Amendment.
Also note - they may modify the acceptable tools we can legally use in defense of life, liberty, and property; they cannot revoke our God given right to do that protection.

16 posted on 09/07/2012 5:49:18 PM PDT by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: DBrow
Thanks for that refresher.

"Some people just need killing!" - Clint

When you're getting assaulted, and assault weapon is good to have.

17 posted on 09/07/2012 6:00:25 PM PDT by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: BlackElk
Oh, wait! I am dissing mkjessup's hero right after he made the impressive and incisive argument for Romney of stringing true but trite insults at Obozo and at the First Wookie. How COULD I be sooooo insensitive????

Screw off troll.
18 posted on 09/07/2012 8:02:22 PM PDT by mkjessup (Finley Peter Dunne - "Politics ain't beanbag")
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To: mkjessup
And jessup goes up for the insult annnnnnd....slam dunk!!!! We were expecting maybe substance???? Of course not. Substance is not what happens when you have sold your soul to pimp Romney! Got your number. Its not hard to do.

OTOH, you write so eloquently and stubbornly, you must imagine your insults hard to resist.

19 posted on 09/08/2012 2:58:51 AM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline/Tomas de Torquemada Gentleman's Society: Roast 'em!)
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Bookmarking


20 posted on 09/08/2012 3:20:14 AM PDT by RandallFlagg (Obama hates Mexicans (Fast and Furious))
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To: BlackElk
[yawn]

You're a legend in your own mind.

Speaking of that mostly under-utilized space within your cranium, good news: Fleet Enemas are on sale this weekend at all Walgreen's , pick up a couple, insert the nozzles into both ears, squeeze real hard, and maybe you'll wash out all the fecal material in there.

And as always, 0bama thanks you for your efforts. Don't bother invoicing them for payment however, you'll need to ramp up your rhetoric from the equivalent of finger paints to something actually intelligible and meaningful before they're going to even consider paying you a dime.
21 posted on 09/08/2012 6:38:06 AM PDT by mkjessup (Finley Peter Dunne - "Politics ain't beanbag")
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To: mkjessup
I have a mind. Sorry about you.

You seem from your post to be quite experienced at self-administration of "brain" enemas and apparently to the point where you have nothing left to which you may administer such a remedy. All that is left is the unprincipled stupidity and a rage at those who refuse to abandon conservative principle as you have (assuming you ever had any).

This has a history although your memory banks have, no doubt, been enema-ized away however long ago with what may have passed for a brain (if any) and with what may have passed for your principles (if any). Strive mightily though you may to substitute your rectal lobes for any actual brain, it will never work any more than your legs have eyesight or your wrists hearing.

Whenever worshiping your false god Mittler (who, whatever his relentless lies, is little or no better than Obozo except at telling you lies that you want to hear) always bear in mind that he had parents and that one of them was his daddy, George, who also ran for POTUS.

Daddy George, in addition to being a disciple of Saul Alinsky agreeing with Alinsky's goals but utterly impenetrable (thank God) of learning the organizing skills, suddenly etched a sketch on the Viet Nam War going from being a normal American supporting the war to his greater comfort zone of joining the elite Corliss Lamont/Gore Vidal/Alger Hiss and their shared view of the conflict (shared with their allies in Haight Ashbury and the Chicago 7. In service to his craven and newfound opposition to the war and the efforts of those dying in the jungles in the effort to get rid of Ho Chi Minh, George Romney solemnly destroyed his campaign by claiming to have been "brainwashed" into supporting the war. Antiwar Senator Gene McCarthy (who in later years supported Ronaldus Maximus) did not welcome George the Brainwashed into the antiwar camp but pithily and accurately observed that a light rinse would have sufficed. Like father, like son and son's eager unprincipled pimps.

Daddy George, as HUD Secretary, also tried to use HUD influence over banks to thwart the understandable desire of responsible folks (but only if white) to flee their neighborhoods in riot-torn cities (like Detroit, Los Angeles, Chicago, New York City, New Haven, Hartford, et al) to the more middle class safety of inner or outer suburbs. Like Alinsky: Forced integration uber alles so long as we understand that the GOP-E and their Demonrat counterparts get to live wherever they please. Apprised of this insanity, even Richard Nixon had had enough and eased George the Brainwashed out of the cabinet and toward the political; door marked Exit.

AND, note that you have nothing positive to say (what could anyone say???) about Mittler and his campaign, his plans for the future, his vision for the country, his story line of what America is all about, his prior career of exporting American jobs to the Third World ratholes to keep American workers like most of the ancestors of us who post here "in their place" and to improve the old corporate bottom line (than which there can be no greater or other priority, right?), his plans to terminate the American Holocaust, to defend normal marriage, to enforce the Second Amendment, to shut down envirowhackoism so fashionable among our elites at the expense of the rest of us (jobs, gasoline and heating fuel prices and soooo much more), his ohhhh sooooo respectable genteel reluctance to meaningfully criticize even Obozo and his commie czars, and tell us how positively enthusiastic we should be about the snoozefest that is the every speech and the entire campaign of Governor Etch a Sketch.

22 posted on 09/08/2012 4:09:03 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline/Tomas de Torquemada Gentleman's Society: Roast 'em!)
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To: BlackElk

Took you all day to come up with that?

What a shame 0bama for America isn’t paying $1 a word this weekend. You coulda cleaned up.


23 posted on 09/08/2012 4:16:34 PM PDT by mkjessup (The so-called "Dean of Discipline" is just a 'torqued'-off Illinois punk, you know, like 0bama, lol)
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To: mkjessup

You STILL don’t have ANY substantive arguments or evidence FOR Mittler??? (as opposed to: He’s not Obozo and neither is Bernie Madoff but he should not be POTUS either) Why am I not surprised???


24 posted on 09/08/2012 8:17:33 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline/Tomas de Torquemada Gentleman's Society: Roast 'em!)
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To: BlackElk
There are PLENTY of arguments that have been made as to why conservatives should be voting for Romney & Ryan on November 6th and you could have read them all if you were not pretending to be a lazy oaf. Go look for them. I am not your Google assistant. The fact is, I have posted them numerous times and so have many other FReepers who understand that the bottom line in this election is that 0bama must go. Your mewling about my not having "substantive arguments" is nothing but a ploy to try and get me to waste my time when your mind (what passes for it) is already made up as to what you will do or not do on November 6th.

However if you're going to pose as an ignorant poster (again, not hard for you, lol) wanting to "hear arguments", here is perhaps one of the best statements I've read lately, which sums it up nicely:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2920626/posts/


25 posted on 09/08/2012 10:32:08 PM PDT by mkjessup (The so-called "Dean of Discipline" is just a 'torqued'-off Illinois punk, you know, like 0bama, lol)
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To: mkjessup; nicmarlo; Jim Robinson; SoCalConservative; EternalVigilance; fieldmarshaldj; ...
mkjessup:

Jim Rob has credibility and you don't. I take second place to no one in admiring the job he does here despite the dark circumstanmces of this year's election. I do not envy him the cross-pressures he operates under in a year of tragedy like this one. He also has responsibilities to the future of this website that you don't have.

OTOH, I take second place to no one in despising you and your persistent whining out of fear and cowardice and your refusal to recognize the reality that conservatives lost this year's POTUS election the moment that Mittler secured the nomination. AND also your refusal to recognize that opposing BOTH Mittler and Obozo means EXACTLY that: opposing BOTH of them. What part of NEITHER don't you get???

mkjessup AND nicmarlo:

That one of these public menaces will likely win is self-evident but that does not require anyone to sell their soul and their vote just so that your misery may enjoy company. Or is that actually your joy on the hallucination that Mittler is even vaguely conservative as to ANYTHING. You answer for your soul. I have to answer for mine. As I understand it, God would not have it otherwise.

You can demand that "Obozo must go." Demonrats can demand that Mittler must go. Six of one, half a dozen of the other. Enjoy what you imagine is a POTUS election though it is not. Conservatives should be voting their consciences not the party line of the utterly useless GOP Elite. Voting for Mittler is NOT a conservative thing to do. Not now. Not EVER. Neither, obviously, is voting for Obozo.

The basic non-substantive argument (and really the only argument that can be made with a straight face, however dishonestly) is that Mittler is just a meaningless smidgeon to the less leftist side than Obozo.

To recap the case against Mittler:

1. He is a career-long baby-killer and has thus bought off on the entire American Holocaust of 55 million and counting by surgical abortion alone in our country alone. 5 million more babies will be sliced, diced and hamburgerized and he will, at most, pay a smidgeon of two-faced dishonest lip service to temporarily gull the suckers. Obozo is obviously no better and, except for the Mittlerian lies to the pro-lifers, is just as bad and, though he could never enforce it, he has the additional homicidal credential of supporting death by abandonment of those 10 or so aborted alive (each precious in the sight of the Creator) just because "mommy" prefers it that way.

2. He is a cheerleader for rump-ranging posing as "marriage" with all the government benefits pertaining thereto subsidized by people who ARE moral and normal, every bit as enthusiastically as someone who derides normal Americans for "clinging to their Bibles."

3. He made fudgepacker adoptions a grim reality in Massachusetts for the children so abandoned to abuse. This drove the Catholic Church out of the adoption ministry because the Church could not, in good conscience, abandon innocent children to such arrangements asa demanded by Mittler. I suspect, but do not know that other churches also stopped offering adoption services for the same reasons.

4. He is a two-faced, dishonest serial liar on any and all social issues and many others. It was his own staffer who assured leftists that they ought not to listen to him in GOP primary settings because he would Etch a New Sketch for the general election. That staffer was not fired and that would suggest that Mittler admits the description as accurate.

5. He thrilled the gun grabber set by quadrupling weapon registration fees in the People's Demonratic Republic of Taxachusetts and had no problem with "assault weapons ban" laws.

6. He used shadowy Wall Street money from the GOP Elite to overwhelm his primary opponents by eating up most available ad time in primary states, dishonestly attacking his opponents.

7. He persecuted the Roman Catholic Church and each and every other pro-life church by REQUIRING them to subsiidize abortion, sterilization, abortifacient "birth control," IUDs, other contraceptives even for direct employees of those churches as well as requiring the same of employers who are faithful members of those churches, all so Mittler could be a BIG hero to the socialized medicine crowd via "Romneycare" which, though starting out with private insurers, paves the way for the future of single payer as surely as each day brings sunrise and sunset.

8. He named uniformly to judgeships in Taxachusetts social revolutionary left wing trash and can be expected therefore to nominate to SCOTUS a new generation of previous GOP nominee trash like Earl Warren, William Brennan (himself a leftist Demonrat appointed by Eisenhower), Potter Stewart, Herod Blackmun himself, Lewis Powell, John Paul Stevens and David "Swish" Souter. When he does make those appointments and they are universally supported by GOP-E senators and even conservatives as "our nominees," the "conservatives" who were kissing his posterior in 2012 will have nothing to say but "Oopsie!" I can't wait to hear the rationalizations from Coulter and the others when their dreamboat names the next Herod Blackmun to SCOTUS.

9. In changing the Republican Party rules by a Pearl Harbor or 9/11 style sneak attack at the Tampa convention (before even being elected) to keep the ideological peasants (that would be the conservatives who are the PRINCIPLED Republicans) at bay and assuring that the GOP-E face little problem buying future nominations. Basically the same policy of "Sit down and shut up, they argued" that you and your fellow apologists for Mittler make here all the time while, of course, CLAIMING to be "conservative" while sucking up to the likes of Mittler with all your might.

10. Plenty more where those 9 came from. When you have answered those, you can ask for more. mkjessup:

BTW, the one thing you have right is that I have already (long since) made up my mind (unalterably) as to this year's POTUS election. I will NOT vote for Mittler. I will NOT vote for Obozo. After all, I AM a conservative. I WILL vote for Tom Hoefling if he is on the ballot here. If not, I will vote for Virgil Goode. If neither are on the ballot, I will write in Tom Hoefling.

My Google assistant??? I would just like the fun of seeing you (and the other Mittler pom pom girls make actual arguments trying to be more substantive than: Obozo is just awful. He makes me sooooo mad!!! He is a communist. He hates the country. We will NEVER survive as a nation AND you will vote for any despicable POS so long as it is a REPUBLICAN despicable POS. That would be Mittler. AND NEVER note Mittler's glaring heresies.

To reiterate, my Google assistant??? I would not trust you to muck out the stall of my family's horse. Not to worry.

nicmarlo:

You are underestimating your God and mine. If he could take Saul of Tarsus who was running around murdering and martyring Christians (like his cousin St. Stephen), knock him off his horse on his way to Damascus, blind him, saying to him: Saul, Saul, why dost thou persecute Me, and turn such a killer into St. Paul, then that same God can overcome the likes of either Mittler OR Obozo, flatten their respective iniquities, disable them, turn them, etc. For God, this is no easier with Mittler than with Obozo or Stalin or Hitler or Mao..... OTOH, it IS a bit presumptuous for even Christians to ASSUME that God will intervene in human affairs to thwart the one and not the other. What makes either Obozo OR Mittler such supermen that either or both can resist the intervention of Almighty God except insofar as He allows them to resist as a matter of free will and thereby to sin. Whatever His plan may be, it just HAS to be better than yours or mine. Our job is willing and humble obedience to Him. Loving us as He does, He will decide what is best for us in ways that no government or political movement can. There is, BTW, no guarantee that He will continue to allow the USA to survive. It may well be that the USA is done in any event.

Obedience to Him beats obedience to Obozo OR the GOP-Elite any day.

26 posted on 09/09/2012 11:00:23 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline/Tomas de Torquemada Gentleman's Society: Roast 'em!)
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To: BlackElk

A fresh tagline with a gem of a timely quote from one of our greatest Americans.


27 posted on 09/09/2012 11:26:16 PM PDT by EternalVigilance ("The opposite of compromise is character." -- Frederick Douglass)
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To: BlackElk

We had to file as an official IL write-in in 110 separate jurisdictions. The certifications started coming back on Friday. Should be lots more tomorrow and the rest of the week.

T-O-M H-O-E-F-L-I-N-G

Jonathan Ellis for VP.

Thanks.


28 posted on 09/09/2012 11:29:48 PM PDT by EternalVigilance ("The opposite of compromise is character." -- Frederick Douglass)
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To: marktwain
What a liar this man is.

As governor, he banned the exact sort of weaponry that the British went out to Lexington and Concord to try and confiscate.

The day he signed the bill Romney said this:

“Deadly assault weapons have no place in Massachusetts. These guns are not made for recreation or self-defense. They are instruments of destruction with the sole purpose of hunting down and killing people.”

29 posted on 09/09/2012 11:39:52 PM PDT by EternalVigilance ("The opposite of compromise is character." -- Frederick Douglass)
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To: marktwain
“We are pleased to mark an important victory in the fight against crime,” said Lieutenant Governor Kerry Healey. “The most important job of state government is ensuring public safety. Governor Romney and I are determined to do whatever it takes to stop the flood of dangerous weapons into our cities and towns and to make Massachusetts safer for law-abiding citizens.”
30 posted on 09/09/2012 11:41:39 PM PDT by EternalVigilance ("The opposite of compromise is character." -- Frederick Douglass)
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To: nicmarlo; BlackElk
Hey Nic?

WTH did you do to BlackElk, give him a wedgie or somethin'?

He sounds like he's out of his tree ('tree', get it? BlackELK, tree, ya know? ha ha! ;).

Say Blackie? Looks like ya hit the jackpot pal...



(don't spend it all in one place, ok?)
31 posted on 09/10/2012 12:37:56 AM PDT by mkjessup (The so-called "Dean of Discipline" is just a 'torqued'-off Illinois punk, you know, like 0bama, lol)
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To: BlackElk; mkjessup; Jim Robinson; SoCalConservative; EternalVigilance; fieldmarshaldj
I'm reposting [with edits] what I posted to someone else.

If you think that God would have a person behave unwisely and elect stupidly, "just because He is in control of everything", you're quite mistaken. That kind of thinking is ANTI-Scriptural. The Proverbs are replete with behaving wisely, not because God couldn't fix stupid, but because He gave you a brain. So use it.

As you correctly surmised, "one of these public menaces will likely win is self-evident." So, how is helping Obama become the more likely winner justifiable before God. Where is there ANY inclination that Obama would alter his course to honor God and his oath of office? You've just witnessed his own party, itself, deny God THREE times. As many have pointed out here, it is reminiscent of when Peter did the same. While I have issues with the Republican party, and removed myself from its rosters because of that back in 2006, the GOP party's platform has not thrown out God, family, moral values, and the Constitution. The same cannot be said with the democRat party. Additionally:
With Romney, use your faith and pray that God influences him through appointed advisers, that these be godly men, pray that God places people into Romney's sphere who would lead him in the right direction; pray that more and more Constitutionally conservative senators and representatives, both U.S. and state, be elected into office. Pray for those now in office lead and vote according to God's will.
If you think, however, that God would approve of my helping re-elect a known liar, a known godless, Muslim Marxist either through voting third party or refusing to vote at all, then you're truly living in fantasyland. Consequences ALWAYS matter to God. The consequences of re-electing an evil person, whether by acts of omission or commission are the same. You're the type who truly would help put a type of Hitler, another marxist/socialist into office because you think your principles are of such superiority that you couldn't vote for a mormon or someone you don't consider a 'pure enough conservative'. In case the reminder is necessary, this is not an election for church deacon or elder where there exists in Scripture such a litmus test for leadership roles as to how someone conducts themself in the Christian faith. This is a political election.

In the Old Testament, there were unbelieving kings used by God and His people were blessed because the king did not have the heart of an evil man. In this case, where the end result can only be a president elected who is either a evil man with an evil heart, Obama, or a man who has done wrong (Romney) (according to your list of accusations against him) because he be an unbeliever, I'm surprised that you feel justified in the sight of God for helping re-elect a evil person with an evil heart by throwing your vote to a third party nobody. Voting third party ALWAYS helps the incumbent. It would make no sense for me to help elect a thoroughly evil person at any level of office.

It apparently also doesn't matter to you that the known end result of an Obama re-election WILL result in more evil wrought against God, this country and the People. With all due respect, taken to the extreme, to your way of thinking, if Obama was a Hitler, you'd have taken the same actions, millions would be murdered, but your 'conscience would be clear' because you wouldn't have voted for other person capable of defeating Hitler because that someone wasn't "pure enough" for you. God doesn't operate that way.

32 posted on 09/10/2012 8:02:58 AM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: mkjessup

I guess I must have. :)) What is it you did? LOL


33 posted on 09/10/2012 8:06:21 AM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo

You didn’t ping me, but read Isaiah 28:15-20 before you talk about voting for the ‘lesser of two evils’.

God detests evil in ANY form. Be it red or blue. Political elections are earthly. God expects us to obey Him and let Him be in charge.

Good day.


34 posted on 09/10/2012 8:06:51 AM PDT by Colonel_Flagg (Conservatism is not a matter of convenience.)
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To: BlackElk; mkjessup; nicmarlo; Jim Robinson; SoCalConservative; EternalVigilance; fieldmarshaldj
Jim Rob has credibility and you don't. I take second place to no one in admiring the job he does here despite the dark circumstanmces of this year's election.

I challenge this! I daresay that you take second place to me in my admiration of JimRob! JimRob, we who are about to vote, salute you!

Okay, now that the (not so) funny business is out of the way, I admit - somebody has coached Romney well on the right answers to give when he is interviewed about this issue. What he says sounds good.

The problem is that I have severe trust issues with Romney, as in, I don't. He can spin his bill in Mass. all he wants, but the fact remains that it was the (re)imposition of an "assault weapons" ban that was modeled off the one CLinton got through at the federal level a few years earlier.

This, plus the many other areas where he has shown a consistent tendency towards desiring and putting into place increased government control to deal with "problems" tells me that he will not be as "reliable" on 2nd amendment issues as this interview purports to suggest. Answering softball questions from a friendly source is not the same as deciding that "now's the time to deal with the gun problem" after another school shooting. I simply don't trust Romney to not have Democratesque responses to perceived "gun problems," especially when the MSM builds up a narrative and begins to work on the minds of "swing voters" to apply pressure to "do something."

35 posted on 09/10/2012 8:09:12 AM PDT by Yashcheritsiy (Science puts you on the moon, atheism puts you in the gulag)
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To: Colonel_Flagg

Does Isaiah count?


36 posted on 09/10/2012 8:11:08 AM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... Present failure and impending death yield irrational action))
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To: nicmarlo; BlackElk; mkjessup; Jim Robinson; SoCalConservative; EternalVigilance; fieldmarshaldj
As you correctly surmised, "one of these public menaces will likely win is self-evident."

Isn't your argument basically like trying to argue that the Israelites should have voted for Zedekiah instead of Jehoiakim? Or maybe the Babylonians instead of the Assyrians?

37 posted on 09/10/2012 8:15:50 AM PDT by Yashcheritsiy (Science puts you on the moon, atheism puts you in the gulag)
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To: Colonel_Flagg
And I say that you will fail to find ANY human being without sin, without flaw. Show me a Scriptural command to put into political office a born again Christian.

Because all mankind is sinful without Christ, then all unbelievers exist in their sinful state of evilness. It is my opinion that most politicians are unbelievers, so according to your beliefs, I should only vote for a born again Christian for every person at every level of office. Again, show me the Scriptures where there exists such a command. I've studied them thoroughly and have never seen such a thing. I have seen that Christians are told to pray for and respect their leaders and laws and pray that God has influence over them.

38 posted on 09/10/2012 8:21:26 AM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: Yashcheritsiy

The Israelites didn’t have elections for kings who ruled over them, their rulers disobeyed God (who told various of the Israeli kings/rulers to utterly smite the Babylonians and Assyrains, but refused); they weren’t born again Christians, did not have the Holy Spirit within their leaders. Because of their sin and disobedience, they created their own problems by leaving various Arab peoples alive. So, you’ve left out some important issues.


39 posted on 09/10/2012 8:26:02 AM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo

Sigh.

I see you have selective problems with understanding analogies.


40 posted on 09/10/2012 8:36:26 AM PDT by Yashcheritsiy (Science puts you on the moon, atheism puts you in the gulag)
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To: Colonel_Flagg
“The liberties of our country, the freedoms of our civil Constitution are worth defending at all hazards; it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors. They purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood. It will bring a mark of everlasting infamy on the present generation – enlightened as it is – if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of designing men.”

-- Samuel Adams

"Posterity, you will never know how much it cost the present generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in heaven that ever I took half the pains to preserve it."

-- John Adams


The death of Dr. Joseph Warren at the Battle of Bunker Hill

41 posted on 09/10/2012 8:57:36 AM PDT by EternalVigilance ("The opposite of compromise is character." -- Frederick Douglass)
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To: marktwain
Romney Renews His Support For Gun Control, 23 July: "That's the kind of legislation I like"
42 posted on 09/10/2012 8:59:46 AM PDT by EternalVigilance ("The opposite of compromise is character." -- Frederick Douglass)
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To: Yashcheritsiy

I’m not the one who is having the problem with understanding.

Our nation has sinned against God for more than a generation. What we see as a result is that there are virtually no men of God now in position to be leader of this country. So what this country is left with is sub-par choices. God has allowed there to be only these two men to have risen to the position they currently hold. Only one of them, not a third party candidate, will become president.

That being the case, there is nothing you can do, now, with getting elected a born again, conservative Christian to be president.

But there is something we can all do to help prevent a thoroughly evil, muslim, marxist from utterly destroying over the next four years what’s left of this country. Beyond this, Obama is a member of a party which is completely anti-God, anti-Jewish, and anti-Christian.

Romney is who will keep Obama out. He belongs to a party which at least has some semblance of pro Judeo-Christian morals and values, honors the Rule of Law, and desires to uphold the Constitution. That many people who call themselves a Republican but no longer personally hold these morals and values is beside the point: the Republican party does.


43 posted on 09/10/2012 9:30:17 AM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo
On another thread, you claimed you weren't trusting in government instead of God. This is completely false, and your ridiculous argument demonstrates this. You are completely trusting in government. You try to smooth it over with a pseudo-"spiritual" argument that essentially boils down to "God wants us to vote pragmatically," when if you actually look at the Bible, you NEVER see anything like that stated or implied. Instead, we see God honouring those who stand by the principles of God's Word, regardless of how many people don't like it, regardless of how badly they are threatened.

Sorry, but I am not going to vote for a candidate who supports abortion, the gay agenda, and the rest of the godless agenda of the Left in America. I won't vote for the one with the "D" after his name, and I won't vote for the one with the "R" either. I'll vote for other Republicans downticket who do generally hold to right principles, but Romney is simply a bridge too far. He's a no-go, and ought to be considered as such by any Christian who actually wants to please God, rather than man.

44 posted on 09/10/2012 9:41:52 AM PDT by Yashcheritsiy (Science puts you on the moon, atheism puts you in the gulag)
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To: Yashcheritsiy

I don’t trust government. I don’t like big government. But, as opposed to living in some fantasyland, government isn’t going to go away because of my personal distrust or dislike. It is here to stay, forever. That is how countries are run.

Sorry, but, unlike you, I won’t help an evil, American-hating Marxist be re-elected.


45 posted on 09/10/2012 12:05:36 PM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: nicmarlo
ry, but, unlike you, I won’t help an evil, American-hating Marxist be re-elected.

Well, yes you will, just the other one who's running, instead of the incumbent.

As for the rest, I can see that you don't have a clue what I'm actually saying, so why bother with you?

46 posted on 09/10/2012 12:08:03 PM PDT by Yashcheritsiy (Science puts you on the moon, atheism puts you in the gulag)
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To: Yashcheritsiy
Don't bother with me. I refuse to take advice from people who foolishly maintain that their casting a vote for a nobody is 'God's will' when it is a known fact that the consequences for such a vote is that it favors an incumbent, and in this case, that incumbent is an anti-God Muslim, America-hating Marxist.
47 posted on 09/10/2012 12:15:50 PM PDT by nicmarlo
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To: mkjessup; nicmarlo; EternalVigilance; xzins; Yashcheritsiy; cripplecreek; DBrow; RitaOK; ...
MKJESSUP:

How clever! You know how to post photos in support of the usual tiresome lies and in your ongoing pep rally for Mittler!!!

Of course, since there is nothing in #'d paragraphs 1-9 of my #26 that you attempt to refute as to Mittler's sorry POS track record. Therefore you concede the substance of each of them. How could you do otherwise???

NICMARLO:

I went to your homepage. As to your 15 Tea Party principles, Mittler would piss on all but 10 and 11. And he would not completely agree with 10. Both major party candidates CLAIM they would keep the Bush tax rates on those with incomes below $250,000. Romney would beef up the special interest tax cuts above that level, which are no skin off my nose regardless of outcome. He would also cut corporate tax rates. Ditto.

You seem to imagine that there is some meaningful difference between Mittler and Obozo. They are BOTH evils. You seem to imagine that God Himself wants you to vote for the "lesser" of two baby-killing, fudge-packer agenda embracing, gun-grabbing, Church persecuting, medical system ruining, etc. evils.

You also seem to imagine that opposing Mittler somehow equates to being a "born again Christian" who hates Mormons. I am a Roman Catholic. If Jesus Christ is not my Savior, I cannot imagine Who would be. I believe that the Scriptural reference to being born again references two sacraments: baptism and confirmation. Within Catholicism, one's god parents take various pledges on the infant's behalf and the process is completed when that same infant has reached the age of reason and, at confirmation, renews those pledges rationally in his/her own right. Thus he/she is "born again of water" (baptism) "and the Spirit" (confirmation). Nothing in my baptism or confirmation (or in my life experience with Mormons generally) would tolerate much less encourage hatred for Mormons as Mormons. The Mormons I have known have been reliably pro-life and pro-family and responsibly conservative unlike Mittler who should be an embarrassment to them. I challenge you to cite even a single instance here wherein I have opposed Mittler BECAUSE he is a Mormon.

Also, see the second paragraph of this post which was posted to mkjessup. It applies to you as well. Rather than defend your candidate's public track record (an impossibility for any actual conservative), you simply CLAIM that Obozo is worse.

I might add that for someone who makes the claim that God somehow would make choices between two social revolutionary monsters, you do have, other than the Tea Party stuff, a remarkably religiously preachy homepage.

48 posted on 09/10/2012 2:22:56 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline/Tomas de Torquemada Gentleman's Society: Roast 'em!)
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To: EternalVigilance

Winnebago County, IL???


49 posted on 09/10/2012 2:28:46 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline/Tomas de Torquemada Gentleman's Society: Roast 'em!)
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To: nicmarlo
Mittler is NOT a conservative AT ALL much less "conservative" much less a "pure enough conservative." In criticizing others, you seem to talk the talk without stooping to walk the walk.

My reasons for opposing Mittler are stated in part in the numbered paragraphs 1 through 9 in my #26. Understandably, you are not willing to attempt to refute those paragraphs since they are not easy to refute without transgressing obvious truth about Mittler.

Then you want to ascribe to Obozo alone the quality of evil. And you would assign Romney's evil behavior as simply a misunderstanding on his part as allegedly a non-Christian, an allegation and controversy that I am not foolish enough to enter into. There are plenty of people who deny the Christianity of Catholicism though it is historically obvious that Jesus Christ established His Church on Peter. I don't and won't make a career of making believe that I can reliably refute the claims of others that they are Christian. As a Catholic, I will rely on popes and the Teaching Magisterium of the RCC to discern what is Scriptural or anti-Scriptural. Don't hold your breath waiting for any pope to justify anyone voting for baby-killers. Ain't gonna happen.

In refusing to vote for either major party evil, I AM using the brain that God gave me.

You left the GOP because it isn't pure enough for you while you plan to vote for Mittler??? What is that??? AND then you accuse those actual conservatives not willing to sell their own souls as you have of acting because Mittler is not a pure enough conservative. Mittler is no conservative at all and NEVER has been.

In your last three paragraphs, you seem to be doing an awful lot of speaking for God Who probably never appointed you to be His press secretary.

If it would not make sense to you to elect a thoroughly evil person as POTUS, it is hard to imagine why you would vote for Mittler OR Obozo since both are thoroughly evil. As to your Hitler analogy: If Obozo is Hitler, then Mittler is Stalin or vice versa. If you believe that the unborn are people as I do, you will have every confidence that both Obozo and Mittler are similarly committed to adding another 5 million or so baby bodies to the burn pile as murder victims. Stop kidding yourself that EITHER would stop the American Holocaust.

At least you admit that both Obozo and Mittler are public menaces. Why would any moral person vote for a public menace to be POTUS???

50 posted on 09/10/2012 3:07:38 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline/Tomas de Torquemada Gentleman's Society: Roast 'em!)
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