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Guess Who Loves Coal Fired Power Plants
Ammoland.com ^ | 8/28/2012 | Ammoland

Posted on 09/07/2012 6:20:18 PM PDT by count-your-change

While the U.S. is either closing coal fired powered plants or forcing them to change to much more expensive natural gas, Germny is pressing ahead with coal fired generation of electricity.

Has Germany abandoned its efforts to be "green"?

No, but the rising costs and unreliablity of "green" electricity has some German government ministers concerned. Go to the link and read the rest of the article with the excerpt below:

"He (Altmaier) is also worried that his country could become dependent on foreign imports of electricity, the mainstay of its industrial sector. To avoid that risk, Altmaier has given the green light to build twenty-three new coal-fired plants, which are currently under construction."

(Excerpt) Read more at ammoland.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: coal; environment
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What does Germany know that the U.S. does not? Notice that 23 new....new plants!
1 posted on 09/07/2012 6:20:22 PM PDT by count-your-change
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To: count-your-change

You can count eastern Europe as well. Many countries in Europe have flipped the bird at EU environment policies.


2 posted on 09/07/2012 6:27:40 PM PDT by Kolath
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To: count-your-change

The smart grid movement is partially driven by the irregularity of renewable power sources. And “smart grids” are driven by a desire to micromanage human energy usage to shut down demand when renewables cannot deliver.

http://tamarawilhite.hubpages.com/hub/Risks-of-the-Smart-Grid


3 posted on 09/07/2012 6:41:38 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: Kolath
What piqued my interest was a program on t.v. about Germany's outrageously large coal mining machine.

Impossible to describe but utterly amazing.

4 posted on 09/07/2012 6:45:13 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: tbw2

Sounds just like rationing. Of course the rationers will never be the rationees.


5 posted on 09/07/2012 7:15:02 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

“Guess Who Loves Coal Fired Power Plants”

Me?


6 posted on 09/07/2012 7:38:48 PM PDT by ModelBreaker
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To: count-your-change

I remember reading in an article here on FR a few years back that there are enough known coal deposits in Wyoming and Montana to power the entire United States for the next six hundred years, counting projected population growth.


7 posted on 09/07/2012 7:54:58 PM PDT by Stonewall Jackson ("I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy.")
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To: count-your-change

Don’t get too carried away with praise for Germany here. They’ve got to do coal as, if you remember, after the Japanese tsunami and their nuke plants being damaged, causing leak of radiation, Germany decided to do away with nuclear power plants as a source for electrical power. They are big greenies, you know. However, they’ve got to get their power from somewhere, so it appears the coal industry is the lesser of two evils to their mind.


8 posted on 09/07/2012 7:57:36 PM PDT by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: count-your-change

I was recently in Aachen, Germany attending a business conference and just marveled at the huge coal strIp mine that fed the coal directly to a power plant by conveyer belt.


9 posted on 09/07/2012 7:59:29 PM PDT by broken_clock (When seconds count, the police are only minutes away...)
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To: count-your-change

They know a strategy like Obama’s will push demand into other energy forms and run costs......creating other shortages, Costs of coal are a internal thing and not benefiting the saudis as well as additional dependence on the saudis.


10 posted on 09/07/2012 8:07:54 PM PDT by himno hero (hadnuff)
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To: count-your-change

They know the folly of outsourcing your energy needs when you have a viable source at home


11 posted on 09/07/2012 8:15:18 PM PDT by Lurkina.n.Learnin (Ignorance is bliss- I'm stoked)
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To: count-your-change

“Altmaier has given the green light to build twenty-three new coal-fired plants, which are currently under construction.”

Two things:

A) “green light”.....pun of the day.

B) How does one give the green light to 23 new power plants that are already under construction.

Is this an oxymoron?


12 posted on 09/07/2012 8:15:20 PM PDT by Puckster
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To: count-your-change
We're also building more coal plants.

All arguments of electrical power really boil down to a discussion of coal vs. nuclear. That's it. Discussion over alternative energy is a red herring, but this doesn't stop politicians from seizing every photo opportunity at a solar plant or wind farm.

Japan = nuclear
Germany = coal
France = nuclear
USA = coal
China = nuclear and coal
Australia = coal
Canada = coal

The real discussion needs framed accurately. There are only two options that can provide enough power when we need it, reliably, and cheap enough not to destroy our economy, coal or nuclear. Now make your choice in that context.

13 posted on 09/07/2012 8:23:00 PM PDT by Red6
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To: count-your-change
We used to make some pretty amazing coal mining machines in the US, too. Now all we make are illegals and welfare bums.


14 posted on 09/07/2012 8:27:57 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: Red6
Coal burning plants will become cleaner and more flexible in their operation as the article discussed and even now a coal plant can burn with less emissions by simply burning some natural gas along with the coal.

One problem with nuclear plants is the lack of standardization in their design. The facility at Palo Verde in Arizona sought to overcome this by planning on building five identical plants (scaled back to three). Each one was in a different stage of build and that allowed problems in one to be avoided in the other two.

Even so the cost over the time of building rose considerably.

15 posted on 09/07/2012 8:39:30 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom

Check this one out
http://www.swapmeetdave.com/Humor/Workshop/Trencher2.jpg


16 posted on 09/07/2012 8:43:27 PM PDT by Lurkina.n.Learnin (Ignorance is bliss- I'm stoked)
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To: flaglady47
Germany is simply taking a practical step in building coal plants. Whatever their ideology they've decided coal is better than sitting in the dark.

The U.S. is unlikely to build any more nukes in the foreseeable future so that leaves coal and/or nat. gas power plants and as nukes are decommissioned their output will have to be replaced somehow.

Is the U.S. building enough capacity to replace what is going offline? A good question.

17 posted on 09/07/2012 8:48:43 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Stonewall Jackson

The big question is a political one....will it be mined?


18 posted on 09/07/2012 8:53:57 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: broken_clock
That monster machine was featured in a t.v. show. Most interesting is how few people it takes to operate it.
19 posted on 09/07/2012 8:57:06 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Lurkina.n.Learnin
They do have a streak of practicality that's hard to suppress. Plus not wanting to become over dependent on their neighbors for electricity.
20 posted on 09/07/2012 8:59:23 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Puckster

Perhaps not throwing up road blocks is “giving the green light”.


21 posted on 09/07/2012 9:01:45 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

This is exactly the plan of liberals. That glassy eyed spittle-lipped liberal outrage over x percent of the population using y percent of the world’s resources is not feigned.


22 posted on 09/07/2012 9:03:50 PM PDT by rlmorel ("It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong." Voltaire)
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To: ModelBreaker

Me? I love coal. When I was kid sawing fire wood with a big crosscut to keep from freezing to death a couple of tons of coal was like a gift from heaven. Actually it was from a guy with a truck and a small seam on his property.


23 posted on 09/07/2012 9:06:58 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: ProtectOurFreedom
I watched a walking drag line being moved in southern Indiana. Quite an amazing operation for a machine with an extension cord dragging behind it.
24 posted on 09/07/2012 9:11:32 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

“Perhaps not throwing up road blocks is “giving the green light”.”

Perhaps it’s a gesture of vanity knowing the feedback that’ll happen if people die because there is no heat this winter.

If people die this winter, they can at least show they’re moving on the problem.

Socialism, people simply must die. Not before or after a problem....but, they simply must die.

Sacrifices must be made.


25 posted on 09/07/2012 9:12:30 PM PDT by Puckster
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To: broken_clock
...and just marveled at the huge coal strIp mine that fed the coal directly to a power plant by conveyer belt.

We have essentially the same thing here in North Dakota. Another conveyor belt takes the ashes back down to fill in the hole.

26 posted on 09/07/2012 9:12:49 PM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: count-your-change
I did not favor any side in my write up originally. The point was merely that only coal or nuclear are the options. However, the fact that you immediately went on the defense makes one wonder if you have doubts on your own position.

But since you open this can of worms-

More people die in coal mining accidents per year than from all nuclear power related deaths since it's inception with Chicago Pile 1.

Coal throws out nice things like Xylene, toluene, benzene... hydrocarbons that are carcinogenic and also associated with some of the asthma and other respiratory disorders we're seeing. This despite scrubbers and other measures to reduce what they throw out.

Coal produces CO2, assuming one believes in the global warming horse shit, that would matter.

Coal produces sludge and other by products in great volume compared to nuclear.

Coal produces H2SO4, the primary cause of acid rain. Once again, while better than in the past, they still throw this out as well.

Coal requires extensive mining and has an environmental impact from that alone.

There is enough Thorium on this planet to run reactors literally for “MILLIONS” of years. Coal will be a temporary fix that like oil will eventually require ever greater costs for extraction after the low bearing fruit has been harvested/mined.

There are applications and spin offs for nuclear technology in the fields of medicine (isotopes used in nuclear imaging, seeding prostate cancers etc) and defense (nuclear weapons).

Nuclear is the most energy dense.

Nuclear is without figuring in all the imaginary costs factored in by environmentalists, the cheapest source of power.

This is what China is buying: http://www.ap1000.westinghousenuclear.com/
http://www.ap1000.westinghousenuclear.com/ap1000_glance.html
http://ap1000.westinghousenuclear.com/ap1000_safety.html

27 posted on 09/07/2012 9:18:33 PM PDT by Red6
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To: Puckster

“Sacrifices must be made”

The elite will turn their thermostats down a degree or two and turn ours off. Everybody just has to do their part.


28 posted on 09/07/2012 9:20:37 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change; broken_clock
Bucket Wheel Excavator
29 posted on 09/07/2012 9:22:08 PM PDT by rottndog (Be Prepared.....for what's coming AFTER America.)
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To: count-your-change

Humanism, that drives socialism, is an oxymoron.

The elite want no more than 500 million inhabiting the earth, ergo, people must die.

The resources are theirs, let’s not kid ourselves.


30 posted on 09/07/2012 9:32:43 PM PDT by Puckster
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To: count-your-change
While the U.S. is either closing coal fired powered plants or forcing them to change to much more expensive natural gas, Germny is pressing ahead with coal fired generation of electricity.

Strange, some genius came to the same conclusion in 2005(?)

We are the Saudi Arabia of coal. We've got more coal than just about anybody else.

This is America. We figured out how to put a man on the moon in ten years. You can't tell me we can't figure out how to burn coal, that we mine right here in the United States of America, and make it work. We can do that.
Hussein Obama's evil twin--- 2005?

31 posted on 09/07/2012 9:33:01 PM PDT by publius911 (Formerly Publius 6961, formerly jennsdad)
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To: Red6
“I did not favor any side in my write up originally. The point was merely that only coal or nuclear are the options. However, the fact that you immediately went on the defense makes one wonder if you have doubts on your own position.”

You can wonder if you will but I was making an observation on what I see occurring.
Coal has many problems associated with is burning but a nuke plant on the drawing boards produces no power.

“There is enough Thorium on this planet to run reactors literally for “MILLIONS” of years.”

Exactly how many watts of power has thorium produced? Until I can turn on my lights with thorium made electricity it is just thorium theorium. Those “millions of years” haven't started yet.

So I need make no defence of anything and my only “position” is that want electricity coming to my home reliably and at a cost I afford...today.

32 posted on 09/07/2012 9:36:42 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: publius911

The difference is one country acts while the other talks.


33 posted on 09/07/2012 9:40:08 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

Eventually necessity will out strip the “ Pie in the sky “ dream of the liberals/environmentalist not ready for prime time alternative energy.


34 posted on 09/07/2012 9:44:16 PM PDT by American Constitutionalist (The fool has said in his heart, " there is no GOD " ..)
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To: count-your-change
What does Germany know that the U.S. does not?

They learned that green cannot run baseload plants.
You have coal, hydro and nuke, natural gas can but still works best as peaking power unless you build on the gas field.

35 posted on 09/07/2012 9:51:18 PM PDT by this_ol_patriot
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To: tbw2

bump!


36 posted on 09/07/2012 9:51:47 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Lurkina.n.Learnin
Continuous excavators are amazing machines. But the most amazing of all is the supercritical once-through boiler where all the coal is burned. 6 million pounds per hour of "Steam" generation (really "stuff" because there is no differentiation between steam and water at 3,770 psi and 1,005 degrees F). Mmmm, mmm, mmm...steam. Check out the guy at the lower left in front of the coal pulverizer for a sense of the size of this beast.


37 posted on 09/07/2012 10:02:50 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: this_ol_patriot

“peaking power”

Pea-king power? Sounds Chinese.


38 posted on 09/07/2012 10:07:00 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Red6

You forgot natural gas.


39 posted on 09/07/2012 10:15:48 PM PDT by jpsb
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To: count-your-change

We should agressively develop all of our native energy sources including, coal, nuclear, natural gas, etc. No single source is going to take care of all or our energy needs. That is why I think Romney’s number one priority — Energy Development is such a great thing. It addresses our long-term energy needs and creates jobs/economic activity almost instantly.


40 posted on 09/07/2012 10:51:24 PM PDT by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: 3Fingas

He’ll have to fight those that want us to ride bikes attached to generators for our power needs.


41 posted on 09/07/2012 11:35:52 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

Well, if those people feel that strongly about it, they should sign a contract saying that they will only consume what energy that they, themselves, solely produce while being a human hamster wheel. If put to them in those terms, they might have a change of heart.


42 posted on 09/07/2012 11:42:39 PM PDT by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: count-your-change

“The U.S. is unlikely to build any more nukes in the foreseeable future so that leaves coal and/or nat. gas power plants and as nukes are decommissioned their output will have to be replaced somehow.”

Not if Romney gets in. He’s pro nuclear energy, and methinks the permits to build new plants will flourish.


43 posted on 09/08/2012 1:00:18 AM PDT by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: flaglady47

and those permits will be tied up in court for 20 years by eco-nuts and NIMBY liberals.


44 posted on 09/08/2012 1:04:07 AM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Red6

“There are only two options that can provide enough power when we need it, reliably, and cheap enough not to destroy our economy, coal or nuclear. Now make your choice in that context.”

I chose nuclear!!!


45 posted on 09/08/2012 1:16:56 AM PDT by dalereed
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To: flaglady47

How long would it take from permitting to actually having a commercially operating plant? 10 years? 15? 20?


46 posted on 09/08/2012 1:22:08 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: count-your-change

“How long would it take from permitting to actually having a commercially operating plant? 10 years? 15? 20?”

A long time; however, you’ve got to start somewhere, and you need a Prez who is willing to get the ball rolling. That’s where Romney comes in. He will get the ball rolling. In the interim, he deregs any regs the EPA has put in under Obama’s regime against coal fired plants, approves the pipeline, and gets rid of any impediments to fracking or other means of increasing our energy output. Romney will open up the job spigot for energy resources on many fronts. Can hardly wait. November 6th can’t come soon enough.


47 posted on 09/08/2012 1:59:25 AM PDT by flaglady47 (When the gov't fears the people, liberty; When the people fear the gov't, tyranny.)
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To: Red6
Hydro can to some extent too, near me is York Haven, Safe Harbor, Holtwood and further down in Maryland, Conowingo. We also have 2 nuclear, TMI and Peach Bottom and Brunner Island coal plant.

Lots of power comes out of these plants.

48 posted on 09/08/2012 2:57:18 AM PDT by this_ol_patriot
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To: flaglady47

November is going to be interesting indeed.


49 posted on 09/08/2012 3:40:23 AM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: tbw2

“The smart grid movement is partially driven by the irregularity of renewable power sources.”

I think it was entirely driven by that.


50 posted on 09/08/2012 4:19:13 AM PDT by BobL (You can live each day only once. You can waste a few, but don't waste too many.)
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