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Obama Administration Expands ATF’s Power to Seize Property
Guns.com ^ | 09.07.2012 | S.H. Blannelberry

Posted on 09/08/2012 2:49:47 PM PDT by DogByte6RER

Obama Administration Expands ATF’s Power to Seize Property

ATF

As part of a one-year trial run, the Department of Justice has granted the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives the power to “to seize and administratively forfeit property allegedly involved in controlled substance offenses,” which is almost tantamount to saying that on the mere suspicion that one is doing something illegal, the ATF can snatch one’s firearms and property.

The Washington Times, among other publications, have explained the implications of this new DoJ decree:

It’s a dangerous extension of the civil-forfeiture doctrine, a surreal legal fiction in which the seized property — not a person — is put on trial. This allows prosecutors to dispense with pesky constitutional rights, which conveniently don’t apply to inanimate objects. In this looking-glass world, the owner is effectively guilty until proved innocent and has the burden of proving otherwise. Anyone falsely accused will never see his property again unless he succeeds in an expensive uphill legal battle.

Such seizures are common in drug cases, which sometimes can ensnare people who have done nothing wrong. James Lieto found out about civil forfeiture the hard way when the FBI seized $392,000 from his business because the money was being carried by an armored-car firm he had hired that had fallen under a federal investigation. As the Wall Street Journal reported, Mr. Lieto was never accused of any crime, yet he spent thousands in legal fees to get his money back.

Until this expansion of power was granted, the ATF had to refer such matters to the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), which would “initiate, process and conclude all necessary forfeiture actions for the controlled-substance-related property.”

So, in other words, now we have at least two federal agencies that can, on a regular basis, seemingly supplant due process and the fourth amendment to take one’s property.

With respect to one’s money, the burden of proof required is even more tenuously worded. That is, as The Firearm Blog, and The Truth About Guns reported, the ATF doesn’t even need to find drugs; rather it can snatch one’s cash “on theories that the currency was furnished, or intended to be furnished, in exchange for a controlled substance.”

Obviously, there are a lot of questions. Among them, how can the government do this without Congressional approval or oversight? Well, Executive Order:

This rule has been drafted and reviewed in accordance with Executive Order 12866, “Regulatory Planning and Review,” section 1(b), Principles of Regulation, and with Executive Order 13563, “Improving Regulation and Regulatory Review.,” This rule is limited to agency organization, management, or personnel matters as described by Executive Order 12866, section 3(d)(3) and, therefore, is not a “regulation” or “rule” as defined by that Executive Order.

The point to be made here is that it was conceived under the same power that the Obama Administration used to institute the mandate that requires dealers in border-states (Texas, Arizona, California, and New Mexico) to track and report individuals who purchase more than one semi-automatic rifle, with detachable magazine greater than .22 caliber, within a five day period.

Now, with every new change in policy, there’s always the question of how will it effect the average citizen?

This is obviously a difficult question to answer. The government would probably argue that it’s a necessary measure to help crackdown on drug trafficking and that it won’t infringe on the rights of the law-abiding.

But then, on the other hand, you have organizations like the Drug Policy Foundation, which is dedicated to the legalization of controlled substances that said in a report circa 2000, “one recent study showed that more than 80 percent of person [sic] who had their property seized by the federal government were never even charged with a crime” (for more on this, click here).

Also, along those lines, the editors at the Washington Times see it as a confiscatory measure specifically designed to take guns and money from the law-abiding.

Law enforcement agencies love civil forfeiture because it’s extremely lucrative. The Department of Justice’s Assets Forfeiture Fund had $2.8 billion in booty in 2011, according to a January audit. Seizing guns from purported criminals is nothing new; Justice destroyed or kept 11,355 guns last year, returning just 396 to innocent owners. The new ATF rule undoubtedly is designed to ramp up the gun-grabbing because, as the rule justification claims, “The nexus between drug trafficking and firearm violence is well established.” Like with everything, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle between an innocuous measure to help federal agencies fight drug-related violence and crime and a full-blown affront to law-abiding citizens, which in this particular case is not at all comforting.

As it’s been said in the past:

“Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.” - Benjamin Franklin


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Extended News; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2012; absolutedespotism; atf; banglist; batfe; bhofascism; bloodofbatfe; bloodoftyrants; bootthebatfe; communism; cwii; democrats; doj; donttreadonme; elections; ericholder; govtabuse; gunsandammo; longtrainofabuses; lping; militarizedpolice; nazistate; nobama2012; obama; policestate; rapeofliberty; searchandseizure; shadowwar; tyranny; usurpations; waronliberty
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I prefer this logo

1 posted on 09/08/2012 2:49:55 PM PDT by DogByte6RER
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Photobucket Now this captures my sentiment too
2 posted on 09/08/2012 2:51:20 PM PDT by DogByte6RER ("Loose lips sink ships")
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Photobucket
3 posted on 09/08/2012 2:51:53 PM PDT by DogByte6RER ("Loose lips sink ships")
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To: DogByte6RER

It’s time the ATF apolarize to the country for Waco and RR and then apologize to Mexico for F&F.

And then we need to fire ALL of them.


4 posted on 09/08/2012 2:54:37 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: Joe Brower; Travis McGee; LucyT; vette6387; MetaThought; 60Gunner; XHogPilot; FreedomPoster; ...

By extension, of extreme interest! Ping


5 posted on 09/08/2012 2:54:54 PM PDT by MestaMachine (obama kills and bo stinks)
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To: DogByte6RER
the power to “to seize and administratively forfeit property allegedly involved in controlled substance offenses

If this doesn't scare you, you're just not paying attention.

6 posted on 09/08/2012 2:59:22 PM PDT by stormhill
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To: stormhill

It scares the heck out of me but it doesn’t surprise me one little bit.


7 posted on 09/08/2012 3:03:44 PM PDT by Shady (The Tea Party is the Party of the American People, Working and creating wealth in SPITE of OBAMA!)
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To: OneWingedShark; bunkerhill7; SgtHooper; Gilbo_3; B4Ranch; cripplecreek

Interesting... in the sort of terrifying “I see what’s going to happen” way.


8 posted on 09/08/2012 3:04:53 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: gaijin

And jail many of them.


9 posted on 09/08/2012 3:05:21 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Shady

Death by Government is going to become the #1 killer in this country.


10 posted on 09/08/2012 3:06:02 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: DogByte6RER
Just hope they go to the right address of the dope smugglers before they seize any property. Oh, the government and strong arm tactics; just like the IRS.
11 posted on 09/08/2012 3:08:31 PM PDT by Christie at the beach (I like Newt.)
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To: DogByte6RER

So the Feds can shut down a website and seize its domain on the suspicion (not proof!) of intellectual property violations, and they can also take whatever the hell they want on suspicion that what they’re seizing is somehow involved in a drug transaction.

Even the hardcore Leftist government-should-control-and-do-eveything people I know are shocked and seriously alarmed by this.

What’s next..?


12 posted on 09/08/2012 3:11:39 PM PDT by verum ago (Be a bastard, and Karma'll be a bitch.)
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To: Shady
Ditto.

Since the beginning of the regime, I've found talking to people about the erosion of their liberties is like talking to a wall.

13 posted on 09/08/2012 3:15:16 PM PDT by stormhill
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To: stormhill
the power to “to seize and administratively forfeit property allegedly involved in controlled substance offenses

If this doesn't scare you, you're just not paying attention.

I'm by no means a "legalize marijuana" person, but it has scared me for years that the local police can seize cash and other property without due process.

Extending it to the ATF is scary, but the practice should have been found unconstitutional decades ago.

14 posted on 09/08/2012 3:19:28 PM PDT by Yo-Yo
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To: DogByte6RER

They didn’t want organized crime and drug busters having all the confiscatory fun.

By the way, “administratively forfeit” doesn’t male sense. Administratively confiscated, yes. Or stolen, more accurately. The other side forfeits; you take.


15 posted on 09/08/2012 3:19:40 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: DogByte6RER
Just implementing plank #4 of Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto.

The Ten Planks of Karl Marx's Communist Manifesto
(and How Statists Implement Them)

  1. Abolition of private property rights (via high property taxes, restrictive zoning laws, "fair housing" edicts, environmental and "wetlands" regulations, and UN Agenda 21)

  2. Institution of a heavily graduated income tax (by calling it "taxing the rich")

  3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance (through a confiscatory estate tax on "the rich")

  4. Confiscation of the property of enemies of the state (through lawless application of asset forfeiture and eminent domain)

  5. Centralization of credit into the hands of the state (Federal Reserve, Federal Trade Commission, TARP, etc.)

  6. Centralization of the means of communication and transportation into the hands of the state (FCC, DOT, FEMA, etc.).

  7. Consolidation and subjugation of all major industries to central government control (FDA, EPA, OSHA, ICC, NLRB, EEOC, etc.)

  8. Mandatory labor union membership (public-sector unions, unionization of 21-million Obamacare health care workers, automatic withholding of forced union dues, "card check," etc.)

  9. Equitable redistribution of all wealth (TANF, SSI, EITC, SNAP, etc.)

  10. Free public education (and food and health care and cell phones and Internet access, etc.)

16 posted on 09/08/2012 3:20:27 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Government is the religion of the sociopath.)
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To: gaijin

Fire them all, and try Lon Horiuchi for multiple counts of murder. There are other agents who deserve it as well.


17 posted on 09/08/2012 3:20:54 PM PDT by andyk (I have sworn...eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.)
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To: DogByte6RER

Of all the government agencies to grant more power to, the BATF is the most out of control, unconstitutional, abusive and most threatening to the average citizen.

At what point does a single elected official - supposedly our representatives - show that they still possess their cojones and stop these unconstitutional actions? I have no illusions that any of them have the cojones.

IF SECESSION NOT BE, THEN REVOLUTION MUST.


18 posted on 09/08/2012 3:23:07 PM PDT by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: Tublecane
...administratively forfeit... The other side forfeits; you take

This is derived from the same Newspeak that makes the income tax system "voluntary".

19 posted on 09/08/2012 3:27:38 PM PDT by stormhill
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To: stormhill; Shady
If this doesn't scare you, you're just not paying attention.

It's not scary, it's a heads up.

20 posted on 09/08/2012 3:29:34 PM PDT by DTogo (High time to bring back the Sons of Liberty !!)
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To: stormhill

It used to scare me, but there are diminishing returns. People kinds get how prohibition has changed crime and crimefighting. They know about RICO and know property is guilty until proven innocent. They may or may not br aware of ridiculous SCOTUS decisions according to which you can’t possibly get your stuff back after it rubbed up against drugs even if there’ no dour you’re innocent (guess why? government pikes money, dug).

I’s hard, is all, to keep on being scared due both to inertia and the only alternative painted as heroin vending machines at elementary schools and atom bomb solos in every back yard.


21 posted on 09/08/2012 3:30:55 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: Tublecane

Help me out; my translation software’s not working.


22 posted on 09/08/2012 3:34:03 PM PDT by stormhill
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To: stormhill

I get it now. “Administratively forfeit” means that you have been deemed to have forfeited something on paper. Kinda like his Obamacare was deemed to have passed the House.


23 posted on 09/08/2012 3:38:23 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: stormhill

There were an awful lot of typos in that post; is that what you meant? For instance, kinds=kinds, br=be, dour=doubt, solo=silo. Sorry.


24 posted on 09/08/2012 3:41:58 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: stormhill

kinds=kinda. I did it again.


25 posted on 09/08/2012 3:42:58 PM PDT by Tublecane
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To: DogByte6RER

creeping socialism bump for later.........


26 posted on 09/08/2012 3:56:00 PM PDT by indthkr
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To: gaijin

I don’t want these people to apologize, be fired or just go away. I want justice and I want to see people go to jail.


27 posted on 09/08/2012 3:59:58 PM PDT by plain talk
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To: DogByte6RER
"Now, with every new change in policy, there’s always the question of how will it effect the average citizen?"

No. There is no question about how "policy" will always favor the increase of statist power over individual freedoms.

28 posted on 09/08/2012 4:00:08 PM PDT by uncommonsense (Conservatives believe what they see; Liberals see what they believe.)
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To: DogByte6RER

Let the dog shooting begin.


29 posted on 09/08/2012 4:04:50 PM PDT by Focault's Pendulum (Obama A man without an American mission.)
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To: DogByte6RER

Re your pic in Post #3: She’s very cute, but I’m having trouble reading the fine print on her shirt. What does it say?


30 posted on 09/08/2012 4:08:25 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: DogByte6RER

There are lots and lots of federal employees who should receive pink slips this winter from President Romney, particularly in the BATF and the IRS. Definitely the IRS.
And that’s just a good start.
Then on to the Departments of Education, Energy, the EPA, the CPSC, to get the ball really rolling.
Why are we laying off soldiers, airmen and sailors when the department, agency and bureau paper-pushers are as thick as flies & maggots on a dead skunk?
We’ll be taking good notes, GOP-e! Four years worth.


31 posted on 09/08/2012 4:14:35 PM PDT by tumblindice (Sic Semper Tyrannis)
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To: DTogo

+1


32 posted on 09/08/2012 4:17:06 PM PDT by griswold3 (Big Government does not tolerate rivals.)
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To: Pearls Before Swine
...should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

You're welcome.

33 posted on 09/08/2012 4:20:38 PM PDT by stormhill
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To: DogByte6RER

Wait for the statist war-on-drugs supporters to show up and tell us why this is a good thing.


34 posted on 09/08/2012 4:28:09 PM PDT by Emperor Palpatine (I need a good stiff drink. How 'bout you?)
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To: DogByte6RER

Okay, who is going to ask Romney if he will immediately rescind this decree?

We need to start getting in writing all the Obama stuff he is going to wipe out, so that he doesn’t get distracted doing other things, and we get stuck with such Obamanations.

Presidents don’t particularly like to rescind former president’s orders, but Republicans really have no choice, because Obama has so blatantly grabbed powers by decree.


35 posted on 09/08/2012 4:37:08 PM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (DIY Bumper Sticker: "THREE TIMES,/ DEMOCRATS/ REJECTED GOD")
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To: Secret Agent Man

Yep, they keep pushing us into a corner little by little.

The backlash they are going to receive isn’t going to be pretty. Too bad for them.


36 posted on 09/08/2012 4:37:24 PM PDT by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal The 16th Amendment!)
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To: verum ago
What’s next..?

We start shooting back. People are fed up with this shit.

37 posted on 09/08/2012 4:40:00 PM PDT by unixfox (Abolish Slavery, Repeal The 16th Amendment!)
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To: tumblindice

Yo Dude! I so agree.

First order of business, take the effin gunz away from bureauKaRATZ!

Dept of ED. DOES NOT NEED AN EFFIN SWAT TEAM!!! Nor does the dept of agri., dept of energy, dept of interior.... and on and on.

Hey RATZ! You need an armed individual to go to some guy’s house? How about asking the STATE POLICE or the COUNTY SHERIFF to take your punk ass out to serve the warrant?

I get really upset about this.

/rant>


38 posted on 09/08/2012 4:50:21 PM PDT by ConradofMontferrat (According to mudslimz, my handle is a Hate Crime. I just Hope they don't like it.)
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To: DogByte6RER

Bookmark.


39 posted on 09/08/2012 5:45:32 PM PDT by airborne (MY HEROES DON'T WEAR CAPES. MY HEROES WEAR DOG TAGS ! ! !)
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To: OneWingedShark

this alone should be grounds to charge the majority of the gubmint with deprivation of rights violations...much less the 1000s of cases to come shortly of citizens being robbed at gunpoint...


40 posted on 09/08/2012 6:31:57 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Gilbo_3; mnehring; COUNTrecount; Nowhere Man; FightThePower!; C. Edmund Wright; jacob allen; ...

Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping!

To get onto The Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping List you must threaten to report me to the Mods if I don’t add you to the list...

41 posted on 09/08/2012 7:33:43 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1328 of our ObamaVacation from reality - Obama, a queer and present danger)
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To: DogByte6RER
Ask Gibson Guitars about the Feds!


42 posted on 09/08/2012 7:52:51 PM PDT by rawcatslyentist (I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a Barack 0b0tt0my!)
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To: DogByte6RER

This kind of crap is evidence that federal law enforcement members should not get the special retirement plans they have. They are becoming more and more criminal themselves and are beginning to think their “rights” are superior to American citizens’ rights to life, liberty and property. Under the direction of the Obama appointees such as Eric Holder as well as their willing accomplices in the senior career civil servants they are becoming our oppressors instead of our defenders.


43 posted on 09/08/2012 7:53:19 PM PDT by House Atreides
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To: null and void
ok, this really is a creepy conspiracy, because i honestly dont remember threatening to report you to the mods if you didnt add me...yet here i got the nut job ping...

that being said, if you still refuse to add me to the ping list, I'll demand a mod zot for adding me without a referal, as well as a zot for not adding me with a threat...

dang, i hope you understand all that, cause i wrote it and its confusing to me...

44 posted on 09/08/2012 8:54:26 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Gilbo_3; camle; Alkhin; Professional Engineer; katana; Mr. Silverback; MadIvan; agrarianlady; ...
RIMMER: Lister, it has happened. You can't change it, any more than you can change what you had for breakfast yesterday.

LISTER: Hey, it hasn't happened, has it? It has "will have going to have happened" happened, but it hasn't actually "happened" happened yet, actually.

RIMMER: Poppycock! It will be happened; it shall be going to be happening; it will be was an event that could will have been taken place in the future. Simple as that. Your bucket's been kicked, baby.

45 posted on 09/08/2012 9:08:39 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1328 of our ObamaVacation from reality - Obama, a queer and present danger)
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To: null and void
...Your bucket's been kicked, baby.

that mean im on the ping list now ??? hopefully ??? please...

46 posted on 09/08/2012 9:22:11 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Gilbo_3

Not to put too fine a point on it, yes, yes you are.


47 posted on 09/08/2012 9:25:36 PM PDT by null and void (Day 1328 of our ObamaVacation from reality - Obama, a queer and present danger)
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To: DogByte6RER

looks like her left boob is sagging a bit!


48 posted on 09/08/2012 9:40:08 PM PDT by RitchieAprile
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To: DogByte6RER

Amendment 4
THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO BE SECURE IN THEIR PERSONS, HOUSES, PAPERS AND EFFECTS, AGAINST UNREASONABLE SEARCHES AND SEIZURES, SHALL NOT BE VIOLATED, AND NO WARRANTS SHALL ISSUE, BUT UPON PROBABLY CAUSE, SUPPORTED BY OATH OR AFFIRMATION, AND PARTICULARLY DESCRIBING THE PLACE TO BE SEARCHED, AND THE PERSONS OR THINGS TO BE SEIZED.

Amendment 5
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising
in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any
criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be DEPRIVED OF LIFE, LIBERTY OR PROPERTY, WITHOUT THE DUE PROCESS OF LAW; nor shall private property be
taken for public use, without just compensation.

More constitutional safeguards down the crapper.

Does that piece of parchment in the Smithsonian mean anything anymore?

One is forced to wonder if our Harvard-educated president - or ANYONE at the BATFE - has ever even read it.

Meanwhile, the Supreme Court sleeps, and congress, fixated on privileges, perks, and pensions, sucks its collective thumb and sends out its franked letters to the effect of, “Hey, everything’s fine; vote for me again!”


49 posted on 09/08/2012 9:45:50 PM PDT by Jack Hammer
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To: null and void

ruhroh


50 posted on 09/08/2012 11:15:32 PM PDT by Nifster
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