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If smug organic mob get their way millions families will never again be able to afford roastchicken
MailOnline ^ | 18:38 EST, 8 September 2012 | MARCO PIERRE WHITE

Posted on 09/09/2012 9:45:49 AM PDT by fight_truth_decay

for dinner.

Last week, researchers from Stanford University published the results of the most comprehensive study to date on organic and conventional foods. Their conclusion? Organic foods have no more vitamins and nutrients than traditionally grown produce. I can’t say I’m surprised. Chicken is chicken, with the same nutritional content, whether it is organic, free range or mass-produced. But now scientists have confirmed it, perhaps we can begin to have a proper conversation about the food we put on our table.

The Stanford University team reviewed more than 200 studies which compared either the health of those who ate organic and conventional foods, or, more commonly, nutrient and contaminant levels in the foods themselves.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: farming; marcopierrewhite; organic; stanford
"organic as a label, nothing more. And a very expensive one at that"

Friends have working farm for decades, then decided to go the popular Organic route; became so costly wth Govt fees, ongoing inspections etc, they removed "costly label", but sell same product, same local farmers markets, same success, cut out the middle-man aka The Govt..

One story they told, a California couple inquired what these "organic" cows ate in the winter as grass covered with snow...they chuckled and said "Hay" and now remains a story to be retold.

1 posted on 09/09/2012 9:45:53 AM PDT by fight_truth_decay
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To: fight_truth_decay

I love Marco, as a chef and as a man of integrity, there is no other cuts through the BS like he does.

Freepers would love him; he loves to hunt and he loves his guns.

In a way, he is the Ted Nugent of the food world.


2 posted on 09/09/2012 9:56:04 AM PDT by radpolis (Liberals: You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy)
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To: fight_truth_decay

“Organic” food is a shakedown racket by slick marketers and endorsed by government agencies looking to make a buck off of suckers. With the price of food skyrocketing, no one will pay the ridiculous prices for oranic products anyway.


3 posted on 09/09/2012 10:07:18 AM PDT by factoryrat (We are the producers, the creators. Grow it, mine it, build it.)
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To: fight_truth_decay

Is there any study on the content of pesticide residues in organically grown produce vs. the alternatives? I am not really surprised about the lack of a significant difference between these foods in terms of nutrition, but I thought the biggest selling point with regard to organic food was the absence of pesticides and synthetic medication.


4 posted on 09/09/2012 10:17:33 AM PDT by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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To: fight_truth_decay

I always thought the claims of some sort of greatly superior nutrients were gilding the lily.

I think most people choose organic not because they think regular produce exceeds the government-established limits for pesticides, but because they don’t think those limits are adequate.

I suspect they are right. And no, we can’t afford to feed the unwashed billions organically.

But I really don’t think this study debunks much that’s been taken very seriously, and it hasn’t really explored that—the sense that government standards are inadequate—that has.


5 posted on 09/09/2012 10:22:12 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: fight_truth_decay

Oh, also. Standards by which chickens are raised could be increased without pricing chicken out of the market.


6 posted on 09/09/2012 10:24:34 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: fight_truth_decay

Oh, and yes, I often find organic foodie types to be insufferable.

And the Michelle Obama type of crusading that makes average taxpayers subsidize food stamps recipients and public school getting organic produce is IMO obscene.


7 posted on 09/09/2012 10:27:18 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: fight_truth_decay

How many tax dollars were wasted determining that a chicken was a chicken?


8 posted on 09/09/2012 10:27:31 AM PDT by bgill
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To: 9YearLurker
I think most people choose organic not because they think regular produce exceeds the government-established limits for pesticides, but because they don’t think those limits are adequate.

If you believe that, then you have not confronted the toxicity of the pest resistance chemicals that plants produce themselves. They're nasty, they've been proven resistant to mutation by natural selection, and they are produced in higher concentration when the plant is attacked.

9 posted on 09/09/2012 10:35:28 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo: Economic crisis! Zero's eligibility Trumped!! Hillary 2012!!!)
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To: James C. Bennett
"Not only did the researchers discover organic food is not more nutritious, they also found that, although conventional foods contained more pesticides, these chemicals were well within permitted limits and not harmful in any way." [In story]

I do buy local wherever I can, rarely step into a Food Chain store-had steak @ friends the other night-they made a great steak, I complimented then asked where it was from, they said Wal*Mart. My mind wandered to wonder where derived from..but it was tender, flavorful..but I still buy local..and because selling to locals is the biz target, not vacationers--then prices remain in reach..now Lobster on the other hand is VERY INEXPENSIVE $2-$3 range Locals are buying, boiling, shucking [soft shell no work] and freezing in zipbags.

10 posted on 09/09/2012 10:38:17 AM PDT by fight_truth_decay
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To: fight_truth_decay

Sort of related... Some lady at the grocery store was bitching about them not carrying “vegan butter”. I told her they did and it was called “margarine”. She said something about margarine having too much trans fat or something. I responded that I guess Vegan is just not that healthy then. And why in the hell would a vegan be interested in eating substitute meat like vegan bacon and vegan burgers anyway? It’s sort of like an ex-cannibal wanting something that tastes like human. ;-)


11 posted on 09/09/2012 10:41:40 AM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: James C. Bennett

This article touchs on it, not in-depth though; http://www.smartplanet.com/blog/science-scope/organic-food-isnt-actually-any-better-for-you-and-its-way-more-expensive/13614?tag=search-river


12 posted on 09/09/2012 10:42:38 AM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Liberals, at their core, are aggressive & dangerous to everyone around them,)
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To: fight_truth_decay

We raise our own chickens. FUBO.


13 posted on 09/09/2012 10:49:56 AM PDT by gcraig (Freedom is not free)
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To: Carry_Okie

I’m not really sure what that has to do with the pesticides that have been demonstrated to be poisonous to people, for example.

Farmers who work with pesticides have a higher incidence of diseases that are correlated with such.

The question is what is the safe, cumulative exposure to different pesticides.


14 posted on 09/09/2012 10:52:09 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: James C. Bennett

Three things:

1. “Contrary to what most people believe, “organic” does not automatically mean “pesticide-free” or “chemical-free”. In fact, under the laws of most states, organic farmers are allowed to use a wide variety of chemical sprays and powders on their crops.”

http://www.ocf.berkeley.edu/~lhom/organictext.html

2. Pesticides (including synthetic pesticides) degrade. The degradation can be caused by: ultra violet light (sunlight); chemical reactions in the soil; and, microorganisms in the soil.

3. Pesticides that are harmful to pests, aren’t necessarily harmful to humans.

Oh, and a fourth thing: without modern pesticides, most of us would already have died from starvation. (The fact that we’re alive instead is considered a bad thing, by many leftists and envirofascists.)


15 posted on 09/09/2012 10:59:15 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: factoryrat

You could say the same things about (so called) “fair trade” labeling. A big shakedown racket.


16 posted on 09/09/2012 11:01:29 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: fight_truth_decay

But if it is not organic then it is missing its essential karmic aura...


17 posted on 09/09/2012 11:07:49 AM PDT by ari-freedom
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To: James C. Bennett; 9YearLurker

Thanks 9YearLurker for reminding me of what should have been my point 4, in post 15, (call it 4a)

4a.Plants produce their own pesticides. These can be powerful and nasty. Actually, one of the main focuses of the research into genetically modified organisms is creating plants that better resist pests. On the flip side, GMOs are created to resist weed killing pesticides (like Roundup).


18 posted on 09/09/2012 11:08:01 AM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: fight_truth_decay

E Coli


Salmonella

100% organic
19 posted on 09/09/2012 11:09:54 AM PDT by ari-freedom
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To: fight_truth_decay
roastchicken

Wha?

20 posted on 09/09/2012 11:12:21 AM PDT by SIDENET ("If that's your best, your best won't do." -Dee Snider)
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

Yeah, all of your points are correct, but that certainly doesn’t mean that all modern pesticides are safe.

Also, what a number seem to be are hormone disruptors. That’s probably half of what’s turning modern American males into Democrats—with the other half being all the birth control pills in our water supply! ;-)

Creating certain strains of corn or wheat that are resistant to, say, Roundup is probably bad news in a couple of ways. That makes it easier for our seed supply to all be patented, uniform and tightly controlled, and that makes it easier to crank up the level of pesticides used—and the level residue that is in turn to be found on our food supply.

You don’t have to be a liberal to take issues of, yes, necessary pesticides into consideration.


21 posted on 09/09/2012 11:22:03 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

Oh, and in the US at least, there have been pitched battles about the US government classifying foods with various levels of pesticides and such used as ‘organic’. Purists see it as deceptive advertising bought by big agriculture interests.


22 posted on 09/09/2012 11:23:53 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1

“vegan butter”. “””

This is the result of 40 years of our current American educational system. Tell me again why we think teachers are underpaid!!!!! Please use very small words—I went to a ONE ROOM SCHOOL thru the 7th grade.

I was raised on a dairy farm & this woman would have been in serious trouble saying such a thing in our farming community.


23 posted on 09/09/2012 11:46:13 AM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: 9YearLurker
I’m not really sure what that has to do with the pesticides that have been demonstrated to be poisonous to people, for example.

A lot. You eat 5,000-10,000 times the weight of naturally occurring carcinogens as you do pesticides. If the use of pesticides reduces pest attack on food, and the food produces less of these chemicals as a consequence, IT COULD BE HEALTHIER TO EAT FOODS TREATED WITH PESTICIDES than the "organic" product that tolerates a minimal amount of pest damage as part of their IPM program.

Given that plants continue to produce those pesticides in response to the trauma of harvesting, IT COULD BE HEALTHIER TO EAT FROZEN VEGETABLES than "fresh" organic produce simply because the time from harvest to blanching is so short in the process of packaging mass produced frozen vegetables. (Green Giant gets it done in as little as a half an hour).

The question is what is the safe, cumulative exposure to different pesticides.

It depends upon which part of the process you're talking about, whether for workers or for consumers. The fact that we ban pesticides means that there are few chemicals available, which means that the pests can get used to them, which means that we use more. It could actually be safer to use less of more toxic materials in rotation than to use more of a "safer" material because of adaptive genetics in pests. The EPA system doesn't allow for that.

If your goal is a minimally toxic food production and consumption system, taking into account BOTH naturally and synthetic pesticides, the EPA method of regulation is not the way to go. Remember too that many modern pesticides are formulated to emulate naturally occurring chemistry.

24 posted on 09/09/2012 11:46:47 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo: Economic crisis! Zero's eligibility Trumped!! Hillary 2012!!!)
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To: Carry_Okie

What are you, a Monsanto rep?


25 posted on 09/09/2012 12:03:47 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: 9YearLurker
You also make some valid points.

There's a big plus side for using Roundup (and the like) — soil conservation. No-till farming saves millions of tons of topsoil annually, and improves the soil in many other ways. No-till farming depends on the use of weed killers.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=no-till

As for what's “turning American males into Democrats” — birth control pills may have something to do with it (although that suggests that feminization and leftism go together; and that doesn't explain the growing number of very rational conservative women). If you want to mention hormones and birth control pills, you should also mention unfermented soy products. Soy milk, for instance, is loaded with so much phytoestergen that you'd be safer drinking ordinary milk, to wash down birth control pills.

26 posted on 09/09/2012 12:04:14 PM PDT by USFRIENDINVICTORIA
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To: Carry_Okie

“What are you, a Monsanto rep?”

ROFLMBO!!


27 posted on 09/09/2012 12:24:25 PM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: 9YearLurker; Carry_Okie
What are you, a Monsanto rep?

Obviously, after all, what Carry_Okie stated can't possibly be true!

28 posted on 09/09/2012 12:34:18 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Liberals, at their core, are aggressive & dangerous to everyone around them,)
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To: Balding_Eagle; Carry_Okie

I welcome either of you to provide credible links to studies showing that it’s better we eat vegetables slathered in pesticides—because otherwise, left to their organic selves, the veggies will explode into more poisonous vessels of killer chemicals.


29 posted on 09/09/2012 12:46:04 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: USFRIENDINVICTORIA

Yeah, I hear ya over the impacts of tillage techniques being a complicated subject.


30 posted on 09/09/2012 12:47:11 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: 9YearLurker; Carry_Okie
I welcome either of you to provide credible links to studies showing that it’s better we eat vegetables slathered in pesticides.

Slathered? LOL! Your mind is made up.

We live in the histories richest country, food-wise. If you want to eat 'organic', please, be my guest. we've got more food than we can possibly eat.

Well, rather be the guest of friends and family of mine who grow 'organic, and are getting wealthy by doing so.

I've raised over 250,000 hogs, retired from that more than 25 years ago, but if I were raising hogs today I would give serious consideration to raising 'organic.

A fool and his money are soon, and easily, parted, and it would be a disservice to myself and my family to turn down such money.

31 posted on 09/09/2012 12:55:40 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Liberals, at their core, are aggressive & dangerous to everyone around them,)
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To: 9YearLurker; AuntB
What are you, a Monsanto rep?

Here's a clue, idiot, companies like Monsanto LOVE guys like you, because they LOVE more regulations, all crocodile-tear protestations to the contrary. It is likely they who are behind these new regulations.

I know, you don't get it. But then, you quite apparently didn't comprehend above when I said that the regulations end up forcing farmers to use MORE pesticides that are MORE toxic. That is exactly what happened when the Ruckelshaus EPA ignored the science they'd paid for and banned DDT anyway. Meanwhile, they allowed organophosphate which is far more toxic, but you see, there were no approved substitutes. As the pests got used to more organophosphate and as the data climbed in terms of harm to workers, what do you know but Zeneca sold the patent to a shell company in Arizona.

SOS.

32 posted on 09/09/2012 1:06:36 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo: Economic crisis! Zero's eligibility Trumped!! Hillary 2012!!!)
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To: Carry_Okie

So I take it you haven’t a shred of evidence that we are better off with our veggies slathered in pesticides because left alone th ey’d be killing us with even more dangerous chemicals of their own making.


33 posted on 09/09/2012 1:17:02 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: Carry_Okie

So I take it you haven’t a shred of evidence that we are better off with our veggies slathered in pesticides because left alone th ey’d be killing us with even more dangerous chemicals of their own making.


34 posted on 09/09/2012 1:18:18 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: 9YearLurker
I welcome either of you to provide credible links to studies showing that it’s better we eat vegetables slathered in pesticides—because otherwise, left to their organic selves, the veggies will explode into more poisonous vessels of killer chemicals.

You can start here. It's the Cornell University page on the topic.

The family of naturally occurring chemicals to which you refer were dubbed "defensins" at the NIH, where my brother was working at the time back in the late 1980s (he's an MD-PhD in viral immunology, studying cancers that start from viruses such as HPV). An associate of his was growing meal worms on freeze-dried spinach v. the fresh stuff. Guess what? The meal worms eating the freeze-dried spinach grew to twice the size as those eating fresh spinach. The study was spiked by NIH bigwigs, not desiring to tell the public that "fresh" veggies (usually days old when eaten) carried long term health risks.

35 posted on 09/09/2012 1:20:10 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo: Economic crisis! Zero's eligibility Trumped!! Hillary 2012!!!)
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To: Carry_Okie

So I take it you haven’t a shred of evidence that we are better off with our veggies slathered in pesticides because left alone th ey’d be killing us with even more dangerous chemicals of their own making.


36 posted on 09/09/2012 1:21:20 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
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To: Carry_Okie

Your easy equating of the impact on the human body of what you refer to as “natural carcinogens” and what you call (but don’t limit your response to) “modern pesticides formulated to emulate naturally occurring chemistry,” leave room for about a million rebuttals in both biophysiological assessment and actual biochemistry, and holes the size of Saturn. It’s literally a matter of “where do I start”?

But if I WERE to start, it would be with your definitions of natural versus synthetic carcinogens, no doubt based on a presumption of natural analogue status based on statistical analysis of the number of structural molecular componants. And that’s not even getting into the definition of “natural.”

So yeah, you could easily be a Monsanto rep. Especially since few things in the history of humanity on this planet have killed more people than the banning of DDT, and NO company has made more money of of finding “replacements” for DDT than Monsanto - and yet you try to imply (with insults added to misdirect your utterly untenable point) that the banning went against Monsanto’s interests.


37 posted on 09/09/2012 1:27:16 PM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: 9YearLurker
So I take it you haven’t a shred of evidence that we are better off with our veggies slathered in pesticides because left alone th ey’d be killing us with even more dangerous chemicals of their own making.

I'm really getting tired of your screaming and wailing. If you can't read my posts for what they say and not what you fear, if you can't wait for me to reply to your serial accusations that have NOTHING to do with what I wrote, the then go to my FReeper page you lazy scut and follow the links to the books I've written and look at the references.

The goal should be minimizing total toxicity, both natural and artificial, versus nutritional value. That is what I have been proposing for ten years. You don't know who I am. You don't know what I would prefer. You don't know what I've done or the risks I've taken and costs I've incurred to restore native plant habitat. You don't even know how to read without your vision being obliterated by your beliefs.

STFU and get a grip.

38 posted on 09/09/2012 1:28:23 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo: Economic crisis! Zero's eligibility Trumped!! Hillary 2012!!!)
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To: Talisker
Your easy equating of the impact on the human body of what you refer to as “natural carcinogens” and what you call (but don’t limit your response to) “modern pesticides formulated to emulate naturally occurring chemistry,” leave room for about a million rebuttals in both biophysiological assessment and actual biochemistry, and holes the size of Saturn.

Guess who funds those studies? Guess who owns the politicians directing the funding? It looks to me more like you're the potential Monsanto rep. You know, the guys who rig one set of chemicals getting band for "chlorine chemistry" when they have newly patented fluorine analogues at the ready.

But if I WERE to start, it would be with your definitions of natural versus synthetic carcinogens, no doubt based on a presumption of natural analogue status based on statistical analysis of the number of structural molecular componants. And that’s not even getting into the definition of “natural.”

About which you know nothing, unless the name "Titus Lucretius Carus" means anything to you.

Especially since few things in the history of humanity on this planet have killed more people than the banning of DDT, and NO company has made more money of of finding “replacements” for DDT than Monsanto - and yet you try to imply (with insults added to misdirect your utterly untenable point) that the banning went against Monsanto’s interests.

Go read my posts on this thread again. All of them.

39 posted on 09/09/2012 1:34:16 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (The Slave Party Switcheroo: Economic crisis! Zero's eligibility Trumped!! Hillary 2012!!!)
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To: James C. Bennett

Folks died in this country after eating organic spinach. The spinach was fertilized with cow $#!+ that contained e-coli. Commercial fertilizer is much more sterile.


40 posted on 09/09/2012 2:02:19 PM PDT by abclily
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To: fight_truth_decay
I don't buy "organic" food because I think it is somehow magically better. I don't even care if it is "organic."

What I do want is actual food and not chemical compounds. So, I find myself reading labels and such. I don't have the land that I did previously to grow/produce my own food in the scale I used to be able to in the past. Sugar, water, and raspberries make a much better preserve than sugar, high fructose corn syrup, red number 5, TBHQ, BHT, sodium tripoisonate (Simpsons reference), and "artificial flavors."....but that's just me.

I can say that I was entirely against the "natural" and "organic" fad everyone seemed to be buying into and prided myself on my ability to eat crap.....the more unpronounceable ingredients the better. Then I decided I would try to buy actual food without all the ingredients (like I said, I don't care if it is "organic" just that it isn't better eating through chemistry.)

It was/is really frustrating trying to find food that didn't have all the extra stuff. (why does peanut butter need hydrogenated anything, or Ranch dressing need MSG?) Anyway, after about two to three weeks, I did notice I felt better and healthier overall. Now, if I eat stuff with a lot of the nonsense in it, it makes me sick. (McDonald's is the worst.

I've gotten to the point that I can find decent food that is the same, or near the same pric as foods I used to buy. But for things like beef, chicken, pork, and fresh produce? Who cares if it is "organic?" Or "fair trade?"

That said, my favorite is "free range" or "cage free" chicken/eggs. Chickens are some of the stupidest animals on earth. Their brain is smaller than your thumb.....they don't know the difference between a 2x2ft cage and a 100 acre farm. They get easily confused and return to the wrong nest (allowing their embryos to die) and if food is more than a dozen feet away while nesting, they will starve to death vice walking another foot or two.

41 posted on 09/09/2012 2:49:44 PM PDT by Repeat Offender (Official Romney/GOP-E Platform - We suck less)
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To: Carry_Okie

If you can’t read my posts for what they say and not what you fear, if you can’t wait for me to reply to your serial accusations that have NOTHING to do with what I wrote’

There seems to be plenty of that going around. You gave it your best shot!


42 posted on 09/10/2012 7:42:45 AM PDT by AuntB (Illegal immigration is simply more "share the wealth" socialism and a CRIME not a race!)
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To: Repeat Offender

I eat natural as much as I can, know where my food comes from, buy local, tastes better when fresh, ...........but enjoy a McDonald’s burger once in a while, so have no shame in being a “repeat offender”. ;)


43 posted on 09/14/2012 11:22:11 AM PDT by fight_truth_decay
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