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AP Exclusive: Memos Show US Hushed up Soviet Crime
Associated Press ^ | September 10, 2012 | RANDY HERSCHAFT and VANESSA GERA

Posted on 09/10/2012 10:25:03 AM PDT by dfwgator

The American POWs sent secret coded messages to Washington with news of a Soviet atrocity: In 1943 they saw rows of corpses in an advanced state of decay in the Katyn forest, on the western edge of Russia, proof that the killers could not have been the Nazis who had only recently occupied the area.

(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: coldwar; fdr; katyn; katynforest; massacre; poland; soviet; wwii
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1 posted on 09/10/2012 10:25:12 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

Shame on FDR!


2 posted on 09/10/2012 10:26:25 AM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
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To: dfwgator

Which is why Patton was ‘let go’, imho.


3 posted on 09/10/2012 10:31:11 AM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (Bocephus hits a home run! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rt_vjPqAVzI)
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To: dfwgator

Newsflash!

In periods of all-out war, atrocities happen.

We now return you to your regular programming.


4 posted on 09/10/2012 10:31:26 AM PDT by Bratch
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To: Bratch

And we rewarded those who committed the atrocities.


5 posted on 09/10/2012 10:33:06 AM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
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To: dfwgator

They were our allies. We needed them to do the bulk of the fighting.

Look at the Battle of Kursk. Can you imagine how many GIs would have been killed if we had to defeat German armies like that?


6 posted on 09/10/2012 10:34:13 AM PDT by proxy_user
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To: proxy_user

What choice did the Russians have? We could have stood up to them, what were they going to do, stop fighting the Nazis?


7 posted on 09/10/2012 10:35:43 AM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
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To: dfwgator; All
FDR was very sympathetic the Soviet Russia Goals / Stalin's xenophobia / paranoia
& the USSC / BoRs & the Voters' Conservative nature stopped it.

8 posted on 09/10/2012 10:39:27 AM PDT by skinkinthegrass (WA DC E$tabli$hment; DNC/RNC/Unionists...Brazilian saying: "$@me Old $hit; w/ different flie$" :^)
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To: proxy_user

The knowledge of Katyn should have given us significant bargaining leverage at Yalta and Potsdam with the Russkies.


9 posted on 09/10/2012 10:40:31 AM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
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To: dfwgator
The newly uncovered documents also show Stewart was ordered in 1950 — soon before the Congressional committee began its work — never to speak about a secret message on Katyn.

Why should be suprised that Truman, the president who let China go communist would suppress such information?

10 posted on 09/10/2012 10:41:27 AM PDT by fso301
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To: Bratch
Newsflash! In periods of all-out war, atrocities happen.

This wasn't a Lieutenant razing a village. This was the systematic mass murder, by the Soviet NKVD, of Polish officers, lawyers, doctors -- essentially the educated class of Poland who did not show signs of being convertible into supporting Communism.

11 posted on 09/10/2012 10:48:36 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Charlie Daniels - Payback Time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWwTJj_nosI)
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To: dfwgator
Vasili Blokhin - chief executioner:

Blokhin initially decided on an ambitious quota of 300 executions per night, and engineered an efficient system in which the prisoners were individually led to a small antechamber—which had been painted red and was known as the "Leninist room"—for a brief and cursory positive identification, before being handcuffed and led into the execution room next door. The room was specially designed with padded walls for soundproofing, a sloping concrete floor with a drain and hose, and a log wall for the prisoners to stand against.

Blokhin would stand waiting behind the door in his executioner garb: a leather butcher's apron, leather hat, and shoulder-length leather gloves. Then, without a hearing, the reading of a sentence or any other formalities, each officer was brought in and restrained by guards while Blokhin shot them once in the base of the skull with a German Walther Model 2 .25 ACP pistol. He had brought a briefcase full of his own Walther pistols, since he did not trust the reliability of the standard-issue Soviet TT-30 for the frequent, heavy use he intended. The use of a German pocket pistol, which was commonly carried by Nazi intelligence agents, also provided plausible deniability of the executions if the bodies were discovered later.

An estimated 30 local NKVD agents, guards and drivers were pressed into service to escort prisoners to the basement, confirm identification, then remove the bodies and hose down the blood after each execution. Although some of the executions were carried out by Senior Lieutenant of State Security Andrei M. Rubanov, Blokhin was the primary executioner and, true to his reputation, liked to work continuously and rapidly without interruption. In keeping with NKVD policy and the overall "black" nature of the operation, the executions were conducted at night, starting at dark and continuing until just prior to dawn. The bodies were continuously loaded onto covered flat-bed trucks through a back door in the execution chamber and trucked, twice a night, to Mednoye, where Blokhin had arranged for a bulldozer and two NKVD drivers to dispose of bodies at an unfenced site. Each night, 24 to 25 trenches, measuring eight to ten meters total, were dug to hold the night's corpses, and each trench was covered up before dawn. Blokhin and his team worked without pause for ten hours each night, with Blokhin executing an average of one prisoner every three minutes. At the end of the night, Blokhin provided vodka to all his men.

12 posted on 09/10/2012 10:49:18 AM PDT by Sax
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To: Sax

Katyn (Not for the squeamish)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F09AC4UohJE


13 posted on 09/10/2012 10:51:43 AM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
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To: dfwgator

I hate to say this but this lends more credence to the theory that the Soviet statistics on the number of Jews killed during the holocaust is overblown. The Soviets provided a vast majority of the numbers that were used. This news doesn’t help.


14 posted on 09/10/2012 10:52:37 AM PDT by TheRhinelander
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To: dfwgator

Hope ya’ll are taking notes on how Marxists “assimilate” those who don’t seem to be getting with the program...


15 posted on 09/10/2012 10:52:42 AM PDT by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: Bratch
I forgot to add, "... mass murder of 22 THOUSAND members of the college-educated class". In addition, between 320 thousand and one million Polish citizens were deported into the Soviet Union, with a large percentage of those deported dying in the Soviet gulags.

What FDR was worried about was, if the full scope of Soviet atrocities were made known, the American public might decide that maybe we should support the Germans AGAINST the Russians.

16 posted on 09/10/2012 10:54:11 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Charlie Daniels - Payback Time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWwTJj_nosI)
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To: TheRhinelander

How so? Three million Jews in Poland before the war, where did they all go?


17 posted on 09/10/2012 10:54:21 AM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
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To: PapaBear3625

“This wasn’t a Lieutenant razing a village. This was the systematic mass murder, by the Soviet NKVD, of Polish officers, lawyers, doctors — essentially the educated class of Poland who did not show signs of being convertible into supporting Communism.”

Yeah, like the North Vietnamese did. But let’s ignore that, and beat ourselves up about Calley.


18 posted on 09/10/2012 10:54:51 AM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: PapaBear3625

The Nazis took care of the enlisted men, the Russkies took care of the officers.


19 posted on 09/10/2012 10:55:10 AM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
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To: TheRhinelander
I hate to say this but this lends more credence to the theory that the Soviet statistics on the number of Jews killed during the holocaust is overblown. The Soviets provided a vast majority of the numbers that were used. This news doesn’t help.

I would not be surprised to learn that some number of the deaths attributed to the Nazis, were actually killed by the Soviets.

20 posted on 09/10/2012 10:56:54 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Charlie Daniels - Payback Time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWwTJj_nosI)
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To: PapaBear3625
What FDR was worried about was, if the full scope of Soviet atrocities were made known, the American public might decide that maybe we should support the Germans AGAINST the Russians.

Again, I would tend to agree with not revealing it publicly during the war...but certainly I would have threatened to reveal it after the war, unless the Soviets made concessions regarding Eastern Europe.

21 posted on 09/10/2012 10:57:30 AM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
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To: dfwgator
How so? Three million Jews in Poland before the war, where did they all go?

How many went into the USSR, never to be seen again?

22 posted on 09/10/2012 10:58:32 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Charlie Daniels - Payback Time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWwTJj_nosI)
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To: PapaBear3625

I would think pretty much the Auschwitz Kommandant’s testimony at Nuremberg would pretty much settle that question. There is plenty of evidence of mass graves at Treblinka which would corroborate the Nazi atrocities.


23 posted on 09/10/2012 11:01:04 AM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
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To: RushIsMyTeddyBear
Precisely.

It was blood-soaked, murderous, Communist shit like this that pissed General Patton off so frequently.

He created an uproar with the US government hierarchy and their Soviet buddies, and then General Patton suddenly "died in a car accident."

24 posted on 09/10/2012 11:01:48 AM PDT by Prole (Please pray for the families of Chris and Channon. May God always watch over them)
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To: dfwgator

FDR? The guy with all the Soviet spies working under him? The guy who had Alger Hiss by his side at Yalta?

FDR, the so-called great American president/dictator, who knew nothing of all the Soviet activities conducted stateside on his watch?


25 posted on 09/10/2012 11:01:48 AM PDT by Third Person (I'm in my prime.)
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To: PapaBear3625
Exactly.

The Communists HATED educated people from Poland, Romania and so forth.

They were deemed a threat and considered dangerous, and the fact that they were murdered by the advancing Russians comes as no surprise to me.

26 posted on 09/10/2012 11:03:55 AM PDT by Prole (Please pray for the families of Chris and Channon. May God always watch over them)
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To: dfwgator
See the Madden Committee for some of the testimony of John H. Van Vliet, Jr. from 4Feb1945 given in Washington, DC.

His written reports (there were two) have vanished.

27 posted on 09/10/2012 11:04:13 AM PDT by jamaksin
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To: dfwgator

Their aim was to eliminate a military and intellectual elite that would have put up stiff resistance to Soviet control. The men were among Poland's most accomplished — officers and reserve officers who in their civilian lives worked as doctors, lawyers, teachers, or as other professionals. Their loss has proven an enduring wound to the Polish nation.

Sounds very much like what what the Khmer Rouge were to do later in Cambodia, such policy being part and parcel of the inhumanity that is called Communism.

Anyone ever hear of the world, led by the US, demanding justice for these victims and other victims of Soviet atrocities, as was done with the Nazis? Of course not.

28 posted on 09/10/2012 11:07:24 AM PDT by Robwin
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To: Prole

Now to be somewhat fair, it also wasn’t very good to be a Red Army Officer under Stalin.

I recently saw a documentary about the Siege of Leningrad, and we learned in the end, that basically Stalin had all of the “heroes of Leningrad” shot after the war.


29 posted on 09/10/2012 11:07:35 AM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
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To: skinkinthegrass

FDR had “flexibility”.


30 posted on 09/10/2012 11:12:06 AM PDT by Third Person (I'm in my prime.)
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To: Bratch

How sad it must be to have to be you.


31 posted on 09/10/2012 11:12:17 AM PDT by MeganC (The Cinemark theatre in Aurora, CO is a 'Gun Free Zone'. Spread the word.)
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To: PapaBear3625
I forgot to add, “... mass murder of 22 THOUSAND members of the college-educated class”.

And what will happen here to our libs at the university after their usefulness is no longer needed? What happened to the liberals in China?
32 posted on 09/10/2012 11:14:20 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple ( (Lord, save me from some conservatives, they don't understand history any better than liberals.))
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To: dfwgator

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katyn_Massacre


33 posted on 09/10/2012 11:14:27 AM PDT by 353FMG (The US Constitution is only as good as those who enforce it.)
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To: MeganC

So what should we do?

Atrocities committed by a government that no longer exists, covered up by US officials who are long dead.

What’s our next course of action?

There’s enough trouble going around without trying do worry about things that happened 4 wars ago.

IMO.


34 posted on 09/10/2012 11:20:51 AM PDT by Bratch
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To: PeterPrinciple
And what will happen here to our libs at the university after their usefulness is no longer needed? What happened to the liberals in China?

What did Pol Pot do to the educated people of Cambodia?

35 posted on 09/10/2012 11:28:02 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Charlie Daniels - Payback Time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWwTJj_nosI)
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To: Bratch

Your comment was amazingly dismissive of the human suffering of the Poles. Just dismissing what took place with the equivalent of saying, “Sh*t happens”, is appalling.

And as to what we should do? We should acknowledge the truth and remember the dead and work to make sure no such thing happens again.


36 posted on 09/10/2012 11:28:47 AM PDT by MeganC (The Cinemark theatre in Aurora, CO is a 'Gun Free Zone'. Spread the word.)
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To: proxy_user
Can you imagine how many GIs would have been killed if we had to defeat German armies like that?

Well, yes and no. Had we adopted the Russian "tactic" of staging a brutal, all-out slugfest - yes. But our Generals would have employed entirely different hit-and-run tactics that would have tend to minimize American casualties...and Germans would have been far more willing to surrender to Americans than to fight to the death, knowing what awaited them in Soviet captivity.

37 posted on 09/10/2012 11:31:37 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: Bratch
"In periods of all-out war, atrocities happen. We now return you to your regular programming."

Thank you for demonstrating your ignorance. 20,000 Polish officers and other members of the Polish intelligentsia were arrested AFTER Stalin's Red Army divided Poland with Hitler.

They were not the victim of an "atrocity during all-out war" as you say. They were arrested, taken in truckloads to a forest and murdered.

Twenty thousand or more of them.

Now, go back to your regular programming, which, judging by your stupid remark, is probably "The Price Is Right" or "Family Feud."

38 posted on 09/10/2012 11:33:52 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: dfwgator

And everyone that followed him. Even Ronaldus Magnus.

Shame on all of them. May God have mercy on their souls.


39 posted on 09/10/2012 11:35:28 AM PDT by NTHockey (Rules of engagement #1: Take no prisoners)
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To: PapaBear3625; Bratch

Exactly. I’m surprised to see such a stupid remark as the one Bratch made on FR.


40 posted on 09/10/2012 11:35:30 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: dfwgator

One of many betrayals by the Greatest Nation on Earth.


41 posted on 09/10/2012 11:37:39 AM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
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To: Bratch
"So what should we do?"

Well, perhaps YOU could apologize for being an ignorant ASS.

I'd put your earlier comment on the level of laughing about the Jews being gassed.

"So what? Atrocities happen in all-out war!"

42 posted on 09/10/2012 11:38:31 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: dfwgator

We knew exactly what Stalin was.

To many in the Fedgove wanted it here to notice.


43 posted on 09/10/2012 11:38:52 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: dfwgator

German atrocities didn’t occur until full 10 years after FDR’s Uncle Joe starved three million in the Ukraine, and yet whose side did we take?


44 posted on 09/10/2012 11:43:02 AM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
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To: Mr. Jeeves

The Germans surrendered to the Western Allies in droves, but they fought “tooth and nail” in the Battle of Berlin against the Russians, how many Red Army soldiers needlessly died to beat the Western Allies to Berlin?


45 posted on 09/10/2012 11:43:35 AM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
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To: dfwgator

“The knowledge of Katyn should have given us significant bargaining leverage at Yalta and Potsdam with the Russkies.”

>sigh>

Look, here’s the deal. As far as being allies with Stalin, that die was cast by Churchill before we even got into the war. Churchill forged the alliance with Stalin in July 1941. When Hitler declared war on the United States, we joined the conflict on the side of the USSR. From December 7, 1941 to May 8, 1945, the United States was bound to a common cause with the Soviet Union to defeat Nazi Germany. And, as one poster noted already, that victory was purchased at the cost of the blood of 11,000,000 Soviet soldiers. A lot more than we paid.

Second, the Germans paraded captured American POW’s through Katyn in 1943 or 1944. The American POW’s, without any prompting by FDR or the rest of the “national leadership,” independently reached the decision that although they believed that the Nazis made their case that the Soviets murdered the Polish officers, they were bound by the war against the common enemy to make no statement that would damage the alliance and allow the Nazis to use them as propaganda tools.

Third, “leverage at Yalta?” To do what, exactly? Get the Red Army, who just conquered Poland at a staggering cost, to just turn around and leave? You really think slapping Stalin in the face with Katyn would make him do that? “Oh gosh, we killed Poles. We’re sorry; we’ll leave.” You don’t know a whole lot about Joseph Stalin if you think there is any chance of that happening. Plus, there is no way even Churchill, who hated Stalin but hated Hitler a little more, was going to do that while we were still at war with Germany.

Which leads to the final point. The USSR conquered Poland, and projected their power beyond it into central Germany. There was no way for us to keep that from happening. Once there, the only way they were going to leave was by the application of greater force. I will tell you that other than George S. Patton, there was not one single American in a position of authority in the military or government who had the desire to go to war with the USSR at that time. Not when we still had Japan to deal with. And how would you have sold this new war to an American public who had been told for years that the USSR was our ally? How do you get a war-weary American public to sign on to another war while one is still being fought?

The Soviet Union won their spoils of war in Eastern Europe the hard way. We had NO leverage at all regarding Eastern Europe. Threaten them with the bomb? They stole the plans for it from us and made their own. Cut off Lend-Lease? Truman did that. Cut them off from the Marshall Plan? They turned that down, too. The USSR had the most productive parts of their country laid waste by an invasion from Eastern Europe, survived the onslaught by the slimmest of margins, and prevailed at a staggering cost. They were not going to allow that to happen again, and they perceived it as essential to national security to make Eastern Europe into a reliable buffer zone. Their definition of “reliable buffer zone” was of course the extermination of the middle class and forcible imposition of their brutal, godless Soviet system. It was awful. However, the plain simple fact is nobody and nothing was going to get a different result. Period. End of statement.


46 posted on 09/10/2012 11:48:44 AM PDT by henkster (We're the slaves of the phony leaders...)
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To: Sax

daaamnnn....


47 posted on 09/10/2012 11:49:23 AM PDT by ocean
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To: Revolting cat!

In retrospect, the best case scenario might have been to allow the Nazis to advance to a point where Stalin and the Bolsheviks would be deposed, and then deal with Stalin’s replacement. Then you’d still have the Russians fighting, but with Stalin out of the picture.


48 posted on 09/10/2012 11:50:00 AM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
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To: henkster
that victory was purchased at the cost of the blood of 11,000,000 Soviet soldiers.

The vast majority who died because of Stalin's incompetence and cruelty.

49 posted on 09/10/2012 11:51:59 AM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
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To: dfwgator

Yep!


50 posted on 09/10/2012 11:51:59 AM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
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