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‘Everything people think they know about the stimulus is wrong’(Michael Grunwald)
Washington Post ^ | September 9, 2012 | Ezra Klein with Michael Grunwald

Posted on 09/10/2012 2:22:08 PM PDT by presidio9

Ezra Klein: Let’s begin with the obvious question. Did the stimulus work?

Michael Grunwald: Everything people think they know about the stimulus is wrong. It was called the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act and it did produce a short-term recovery. We dropped 8.9 percent of GDP in Q4 2008. We lost 800,000 jobs in January 2009. We passed the stimulus. And then the next quarter we saw the biggest jobs improvement in 30 years.

The long-term reinvestment part is working. It spent $90 billion for clean energy when we were spending just a few billion a year. It’s doubled renewable energy. It’s started an electric battery industry from scratch. It jump-started the smart grid. It’s bringing our pen-and-paper medical system into the digital age. It’s got Race to the Top which is the biggest education program in decades. It’s got the biggest middle-class tax cuts since the Reagan era. It prevented seven million people from falling behind the poverty line.

EK: That gets to one of the central political problems the stimulus had, I think. It was called the Recovery and Reinvestment Act. The Reinvestment side was composed of long-term investments to jump-start tomorrow’s economy. But since it’s thought of entirely as a stimulus bill, those investments, which in another context would be huge accomplishments, are seen as a distraction from the central work of the law.

MG: Politically, one of the difficulties was the two-part messaging. You’re doing short-term recovery and transforming the economy in the long term. You’re doing tax cuts and spending. You’re doing stimulus now, and you’ll pivot to fiscal responsibility. You’re doing shovel ready and also looking for shovel worthy.

But after the financial crisis, everyone knew it wasn’t going to turn around quickly. That changes the rules on timely,

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtonpost.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: mediawingofthednc; michaelgrunwald; obamadeficit; obamarecession; partisanmediashills; stimulus

1 posted on 09/10/2012 2:22:13 PM PDT by presidio9
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To: presidio9
The long-term reinvestment part is working. It spent $90 billion for clean energy when we were spending just a few billion a year. It’s doubled renewable energy

Which is a complete fable. You can stop reading at that point. It is so far divorced from fact, you have to be functionally insane to believe it.

2 posted on 09/10/2012 2:25:23 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: presidio9

Ezra Klein and Dana Milbank have catfights to see who will be 0bama’s Monica.


3 posted on 09/10/2012 2:26:12 PM PDT by Perdogg ("Facts are much more interesting than theories" - Dr No by Ian Fleming)
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To: presidio9
You’re doing shovel ready and also looking for shovel worthy.

Oh he's doing plenty of "shoveling" alright.

4 posted on 09/10/2012 2:26:53 PM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
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To: presidio9

If everything we have read about the (so-called) stimulus is wrong, then what is right with it?

Clearly, we get no enlightment from this article.

We would have been vastly better off by now without all the “help” we have gotten so far.


5 posted on 09/10/2012 2:33:31 PM PDT by alloysteel (Are you better off than you were four years ago? Well, are you?)
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To: alloysteel

What’s right with it, according to Michael Grunwald is that we need more of it. Not losing weight on the Atkin’s Diet? You’re not eating enough meat.


6 posted on 09/10/2012 2:39:11 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: MNJohnnie
I always ask this question of the Green Energy Spokesholes: When totaled up, has all forms of Green energy finally equaled the amount of renewable energy produced in the United States in 1996? You do know that was the last year before various federal agencies started dismantling the world's largest hydroelectric system, decommissioning and revoking licenses for geothermal plants, etc.
7 posted on 09/10/2012 2:45:39 PM PDT by kingu (Everything starts with slashing the size and scope of the federal government.)
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To: presidio9

Is the thread Title missing a “Barf Alert” or would putting that next to “Michael Grunwald” be redundant?


8 posted on 09/10/2012 2:47:34 PM PDT by HKMk23 (GOPe 2012: MITT HAPPENS)
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To: presidio9
The long-term reinvestment part is working. It spent $90 billion for clean energy when we were spending just a few billion a year. It’s doubled renewable energy. It’s started an electric battery industry from scratch. It jump-started the smart grid. It’s bringing our pen-and-paper medical system into the digital age. It’s got Race to the Top which is the biggest education program in decades. It’s got the biggest middle-class tax cuts since the Reagan era. It prevented seven million people from falling behind the poverty line.

For fun I underlined the lies to see what boiled out. Not even the words "and" and "the" were spared from the onslaught.

9 posted on 09/10/2012 2:47:34 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: presidio9
We passed the stimulus. And then the next quarter we saw the biggest jobs improvement in 30 years.

So it worked so quickly and so well ... and then it didn't ... and left few traces behind.

Maybe it didn't actually work very well after all.

Grunwald is repeating these claims over and over again, but this idea of "hidden success" looks pretty dubious.

The "green energy" claims are questionable as well. Maybe in 20 years somebody will look back and praise the stimulus for its energy effects, but so much can happen over 20 years that it would be hard to say that what was done in 2008 or 2009 was critical.

10 posted on 09/10/2012 3:04:30 PM PDT by x
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To: presidio9
The subtext is...

"You have to re-elect 0bama to find out what happens in Summer of Recovery Four!"

11 posted on 09/10/2012 3:11:17 PM PDT by TigersEye (dishonorabledisclosure.com - OPSEC (give them support))
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To: Cyber Liberty
Anyone that does the least bit of personal research on obama’s energy spending will see it for the corrupt money laundering scheme that it is. Wind, solar, battery, fuel cell and any other green energy companies obama invested chicom dollars into... have either failed and gone bankrupt or are on the verge of collapse. Batteries... three companies have gone belly up since obama put his golden touch to them.
He saved gm... oh really? For who... the chicoms?

According to the CEO of gm in a speech in china 4 weeks ago... EIGHT OUT OF TEN cars bult by gm are built in china... gm has moved all of their transmission plants and rear end plants to china... or are in the process of moving them... he promises to close the R&D facility in Flint and move it to china and he stated, “gm is proud to be partnered with china... we are proud to work with... in and FOR china”. Every single auto outside of the communist party headquarters... were CTS Cadillacs.

LLS

12 posted on 09/10/2012 3:14:41 PM PDT by LibLieSlayer ("if it looks like you are not gonna make it you gotta get mean, I mean plumb mad-dog mean" J. Wales)
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To: presidio9
It’s started an electric battery industry from scratch.

He's shoving something there and it isn't pretty.

13 posted on 09/10/2012 3:18:27 PM PDT by newzjunkey (Election night is 58 days away.)
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To: newzjunkey

Ha! I meant “shoveling” but I suppose shoving works too in this case.


14 posted on 09/10/2012 3:20:51 PM PDT by newzjunkey (Election night is 58 days away.)
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To: presidio9
I just wasted 30 seconds of my life that I will never get back.

5.56mm

15 posted on 09/10/2012 3:26:47 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: presidio9

Bad example, since the Atkins Diet is awesome and if you are not eating enough healthy meat and fat then you are probably eating too many carbs, and that is why you are not losing weight.


16 posted on 09/10/2012 3:47:53 PM PDT by 2big2fail
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To: presidio9

I love these satire pieces.


17 posted on 09/10/2012 3:51:33 PM PDT by UCANSEE2 ( If you think I'm crazy, just wait until you talk to my invisible friend.)
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To: presidio9
feh...
18 posted on 09/10/2012 4:04:38 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist - *DTOM* -ww- NO Pity for the LAZY)
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To: presidio9

I know it was a hideous waste of money so not everything people know is wrong


19 posted on 09/10/2012 4:07:01 PM PDT by muir_redwoods (Hopey changey Low emission unicorns and a crap sandwich)
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To: x
Maybe in 20 years somebody will look back and praise the stimulus for its energy effects, but so much can happen over 20 years that it would be hard to say that what was done in 2008 or 2009 was critical.

My gut feeling is that in 20 years, people will look back and say WTF were they thinking when it comes to the wind mill farms. I suspect that none of the farms will be operational unless they continue to get huge subsidies..

20 posted on 09/10/2012 5:30:08 PM PDT by EVO X
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To: presidio9

“stimulus now...pivot to fiscal responsibility later”..
There will be no “fiscal responsibility” later. There never is. Answer me this though, if the stimulus was so successful, why do we still have trillion+ deficits and why is job creation not even keeping up with population growth and the labor participation rate at the lowest levels since the 1980’s? I will answer it for you: Obama’s policies have failed. All the snake oil and diversionary rhetoric in the world will not change that salient fact.


21 posted on 09/10/2012 5:44:42 PM PDT by 3Fingas (Sons and Daughters of Freedom, Committee of Correspondence)
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To: presidio9
Not losing weight on the Atkin’s Diet? You’re not eating enough meat.

That's not how it works. Y'see, if you have one 'cheat day' a week, and you are losing 2 lbs a week, just imagine what you could lose with two 'cheat days'! Why, you could double your weight loss!

And if you had seven, seven!! 'cheat days', why those pounds would just melt away!!!

That's closer to how the stimulus works...

22 posted on 09/10/2012 6:27:04 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: 2big2fail; Smokin' Joe
Bad choice of metaphors, because I have never been on a diet.

Tom Couglin: "The running game has been completely ineffective for us. Therefore we need to call more running plays."

23 posted on 09/10/2012 7:01:03 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: x
The "green energy" claims are questionable as well. Maybe in 20 years somebody will look back and praise the stimulus for its energy effects, but so much can happen over 20 years that it would be hard to say that what was done in 2008 or 2009 was critical.

I posted on an earlier thread that no serious journalist thinks that solar will providing 10% of our energy needs any time soon. Then I saw a program the other night on the Science may provide 10% of our energy needs by 2030. So that is a BEST case scenario, and it assumes future technological advances, made possible (I assume) by further taxpayer "investment." So if we give them the benefit of the doubt, and assume we can get another 5-10% from windpower (already conceeded by the green crowd as NOT the "most promising" solution), and nuclear is out of the question, where does the other 80-85% of our energy needs come from? Magic beans?

This entire conversation is madness I tell you.

24 posted on 09/10/2012 7:15:53 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9
This contains a lot of info about the stimulus, and debunks a lot of the lies that Obama told about it:

Here are 95 examples of Barack Obama’s lying, lawbreaking, corruption, and cronyism

25 posted on 09/10/2012 8:10:45 PM PDT by grundle
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To: presidio9

The Iraq war cost about $1 trillion. With interest the “Stimulus” cost about $1 trillion. Which expenditure created more jobs?


26 posted on 09/10/2012 8:16:09 PM PDT by Brad from Tennessee (A politician can't give you anything he hasn't first stolen from you.)
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To: Brad from Tennessee

The Iraq war cost about $1 trillion. With interest the “Stimulus” cost about $1 trillion. Which expenditure created more jobs?

Here or in Iraq? (one job in the red column...)

27 posted on 09/10/2012 8:24:22 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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