Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

What would have FDR done if the nazi thugs had breached the US embassy in 1939, in Berlin?
history | 9/12/12

Posted on 09/12/2012 9:01:29 PM PDT by DallasBiff

IMO, FDR would have joined Churchill, immediately in fighting Hitler.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: chrismatthews; foxnews; msm; msnbc; obama; romney
Chris Matthews and the MSM, want a hypothetical question, and they got one.
1 posted on 09/12/2012 9:01:33 PM PDT by DallasBiff
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff

Biff. Pick up a copy of “Before the Deluge” about the chaos in Berlin in the runup to the war.

It takes more than a single event.


2 posted on 09/12/2012 9:04:46 PM PDT by sam_paine (X .................................)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff

Well since we helped put the current Libyan government in power we would have had to help overthrown the German Weimer government with bombs to make your analogy work.


3 posted on 09/12/2012 9:05:46 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff
Don't know if I would go along with that. I strongly suggest that everyone who reads this go out and get the book, "The Roosevelt Myth" by Flynn. Also, it can be downloaded as a PDF from the internet.

It doesn't deal with Roosevelt's penchant for the ladies, but with the internal incompetence of his Presidency. Not as salacious, but more interesting if one is interested in the behind the scenes of an administration.

4 posted on 09/12/2012 9:06:27 PM PDT by Parmy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff

If it had been Stalinists killing thousands of Polish leaders, he would have helped them cover their crime.


5 posted on 09/12/2012 9:08:58 PM PDT by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff

What makes you thing that the “Nazi thugs” (of undetermined nationality, as the term ‘Nazi’ preferred by the Soviets always implies) would do it? Your premise is wrong, wrong! Europe and her customs is not, has not been a barbarian land!

Please cite a historical precedent for what happened.


6 posted on 09/12/2012 9:09:41 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Parmy

Read it years ago and have copies, great book and a real eyeopener on Roosevelt.


7 posted on 09/12/2012 9:10:06 PM PDT by Captain Peter Blood
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff

The isolationists, which then included most of the Republicans, wouldn’t have let FDR act in 1939, although he probably would have wanted to. He had to repeatedly promise to keep us out of the war during the 1940 election campaign, just as Wilson did during the 1916 one. It took a lot to bring the country around.


8 posted on 09/12/2012 9:12:59 PM PDT by JohnBovenmyer (Obama been Liberal. Hope Change!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Revolting cat!
Please cite a historical precedent for what happened

Krystalnacht?

And FDR did nothing.

9 posted on 09/12/2012 9:13:16 PM PDT by DallasBiff
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff

No, I don’t think so.

In ‘39, we were woefully unprepared. FDR was biding his time, ramping up war materiel production, playing for time.

We could have jumped into the fracas in ‘39. We could have jumped in in 1940. We could have jumped in earlier in ‘41.

The American mindset following the stupidity of our entry into WWI was highly, highly isolationist. We were still in the Depression, and the American attitude was “We’ll take care of our issues, leave Europe to Europeans.”

This is why FDR waited until Pearl Harbor to get the US involved.


10 posted on 09/12/2012 9:13:30 PM PDT by NVDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff

Interesting thought.

More interesting is, now that we have our first “October Surprise” of the election season a few weeks early, what will the next one be? There must be several of these in store.

Islamist groveling : done (4 dead)

Some other possibilities.

War between Israel and Iran - coming soon

Chicago strike —

QE and financial meltdown — wrecked economy

2A catastrophe—

Some immigration thingy—

Storyboard to be drafted soon.


11 posted on 09/12/2012 9:13:57 PM PDT by FlyingEagle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Revolting cat!

That thing=think.

This is what the MSM does - equates savage hordes of today’s barbarians with other disasters of history. “Nazi thugs”, whatever their crimes (which occurred long after 1938) did not murder ambassadors, case closed.


12 posted on 09/12/2012 9:14:07 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff
Krystalnacht?

The American Ambassador to Berlin was murdered? Who knew?

13 posted on 09/12/2012 9:15:22 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Captain Peter Blood
I am slowly going through it. Will reread it after I am finished. Will try to outline it to keep everything straight.

Another book that I would recommend is, "The Forgotten Man".

14 posted on 09/12/2012 9:16:33 PM PDT by Parmy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff

Did we help to install the Nazis into power?

That’s the big difference, we helped the very people that did this.


15 posted on 09/12/2012 9:17:38 PM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Revolting cat!
The American Ambassador to Berlin was murdered? Who knew?

The thugs were running in the street with government approval(nazi krystalnacht), aka modern day Egypt and Libya, IMO.

16 posted on 09/12/2012 9:19:53 PM PDT by DallasBiff
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff
IMO, FDR would have joined Churchill, immediately in fighting Hitler.

Unlikely, FDR's purpose was to promote Communist Socialism over Fascist Socialism.

He would not get strident until Hitler turned on his mentors, the Soviet Communists and attacked Stalin and Soviet Russia.

It would be 1941.

17 posted on 09/12/2012 9:21:50 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff

The thing is: As bat $#!t crazy as Hitler was, he wasn’t THAT stupid. He wouldn’t have wanted us in the war that early.


18 posted on 09/12/2012 9:21:55 PM PDT by AFreeBird
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff

I’m guessing right about now that you probably wish you had asked this question of the morons that infest the E Channel forum posting about Kim, Khloe and Kourtney as opposed to FR.


19 posted on 09/12/2012 9:22:22 PM PDT by hole_n_one
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: AFreeBird

Heck at that point, despite Von Ribbentrop’s deep Anglophobia, he still thought he could make a deal with Britain.

And I still suspect it was Hitler that ordered Hess to fly to Britain to try to negotiate a peace treaty.


20 posted on 09/12/2012 9:24:36 PM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff

In the book titled “A Man Called Enigma”, FDR wanted in on WWII before Congress did. Notice that, when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, FDR declared war on Germany, NOT Japan.

And, to get American manufacturers ready for the war, FDR started Lend-Lease.

Oh, yeah, FDR knew it was just a matter of time.


21 posted on 09/12/2012 9:26:12 PM PDT by DustyMoment (Congress - another name for white collar criminals!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: DustyMoment

I don’t have many issues with FDR regarding his handling of the war, except for his sellout of the Poles.

It was naive to think that Hitler didn’t have designs on the one country that after the annihilation of European Jews, would have contained the majority of the remaining Jews on the planet, why go through all of the trouble of getting rid of European Jews, if he ultimately didn’t intend on taking the rest of the Jews on US soil?


22 posted on 09/12/2012 9:30:03 PM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff

The point is that some savage tribes, those that have had to learn to exist alongside other savage tribes, friend and foe, have had to learn to observe some minimum diplomatic protocol, such as not killing and eating representatives of other tribes. However, the Muslim tribe, a billion member tribe at that, feeling its strength and observing its Koranic theology, does not appear to recognize or observe any inter-tribe rules, perhaps because it hasn’t had to, has it!


23 posted on 09/12/2012 9:31:52 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dfwgator

Sure, why not. He made the pact with Stalin to buy time. Of course it gave Stalin time to consolidate his forces.

Churchill would have never gone for it. He knew the evil that was in play.


24 posted on 09/12/2012 9:32:31 PM PDT by AFreeBird
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Revolting cat!
The point is that some savage tribes, those that have had to learn to exist alongside other savage tribes, friend and foe, have had to learn to observe some minimum diplomatic protocol, such as not killing and eating representatives of other tribes. However, the Muslim tribe, a billion member tribe at that, feeling its strength and observing its Koranic theology, does not appear to recognize or observe any inter-tribe rules, perhaps because it hasn’t had to, has it!

And as an American president, FDR, did nothing about krystallnacht in 1938, another American president, Obama, is doing the same.

25 posted on 09/12/2012 9:37:11 PM PDT by DallasBiff
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff

You are correct.


26 posted on 09/12/2012 9:38:02 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff

Without the benefit of hindsight, what would you have had FDR do regarding Germany after Krystallnacht?

Mind you, at that time, while people were generally appalled by Germany’s treatment of Jews, it wasn’t so far out of line with many other parts of Europe, anti-semitism was pretty rampant all across the continent, even outside of Nazi Germany.

Of course with the war, it got much, much worse.


27 posted on 09/12/2012 9:42:42 PM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff
IMO, FDR would have joined Churchill Chamberlain, immediately in fighting Hitler.

It was Premier Neville Chamberlain's government that declared war on Nazi Germany. Churchill came to power in the spring of 1940.

28 posted on 09/12/2012 9:47:14 PM PDT by Fiji Hill (Deo Vindice!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Fiji Hill

He could have declared war, but it still would have taken several years till we would have been battle ready.

Of course, on the other hand, it certainly would have given Hitler pause. And frankly, at least at that point, Hitler wasn’t insane enough to think of provoking the US.


29 posted on 09/12/2012 9:49:48 PM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Fiji Hill
It was Premier Neville Chamberlain's government that declared war on Nazi Germany. Churchill came to power in the spring of 1940

You are correct, and I am sorry, about the historical mistake.

But the question remains, what would FDR have done if the American embassy in Berlin had been breached in 1939, by nazi brownshirt, ss, thugs.

30 posted on 09/12/2012 9:53:55 PM PDT by DallasBiff
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff
FDR did nothing with the Panay incident so why would he act differently in your hypothetical scenario?
31 posted on 09/12/2012 9:53:56 PM PDT by fso301
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Parmy
if one is interested in the behind the scenes of an administration.

That's me. I will look that book up. thanks.

32 posted on 09/12/2012 10:22:16 PM PDT by annieokie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff

He rounded up hundreds of thousands of Germans AND Japaneses Americans and put them in Internment camps,

Then he firebombed a civilian city- Dresden.

He was a war criminal.


33 posted on 09/12/2012 10:36:59 PM PDT by NoLibZone (Republican pizza man who only votes for democrats - what's his Freeper name?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NoLibZone

Depriving Americans of their liberty in a time of war was a crime against the Constitution. Firebombing Dresden was waging war on a nation who had declared war on us. I’m sick and tired of people moaning about what happened to Dresden. You want war crimes? The Luftwaffe bombing Warsaw, Rotterdam and Coventry were war crimes. As for Dresden- tough sh!t.


34 posted on 09/12/2012 10:52:44 PM PDT by jmacusa (Political correctness is cultural Marxism. I'm not a Marxist.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: AFreeBird; DallasBiff

In The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, I think it’s made clear that even as late as 1939 Hitler didn’t think very much of FDR or American strength and wouldn’t have cared enough to attack our embassy. He didn’t think we’d enter the war and if we did wouldn’t make much of a difference.


35 posted on 09/12/2012 11:08:24 PM PDT by MacMattico
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff

FDR would have blamed BUSH, too!


36 posted on 09/12/2012 11:17:47 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
FDR would have blamed BUSH, too!

Prescott Bush, that is.

37 posted on 09/12/2012 11:19:09 PM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff

War was declared against Japan by act of congress on December 8, 1941 and declared on Germany and Italy on December 11, 1941, only after Germany declared war on us. Isolationism and anti Semitic prejudices were strong in the USA and would have made any response against Krystallnacht politically impossible and FDR was always a politician. Many Southern Democrats were intensely racist and anti Semitic. Sam Rayburn and Theodore Bilbo were architects of the new deal.


38 posted on 09/12/2012 11:21:06 PM PDT by JimSEA
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff

According to Joe Biden, “When the Nazis breached the US Embassy, Franklin D. Roosevelt got on the television and didn’t just talk about the, you know, the Nazi thugs. He said, ‘Look, here’s what happened.’”


39 posted on 09/12/2012 11:22:49 PM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NoLibZone

a little history for you.

Japanese of all types (Nisei, Ishi, etc, citizens, resident aliens, pro-Tojo) and interned, about 120,000. Many were not bothered at all to our citizens credit.

Germans (aliens), German-Americans, Bundists, etc. rounded up, in US, between 5-8,000 plus several thousand in Latin America.

NOT HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS.

Six US fliers bailed out over Germany and were brutally killed by German civilians (mainly rural farmers using pitchforks).

In retaliation, a US bomber squadron, who was unable to hit their primary target, wiped a German fishing village off the face of the earth. Big fucking deal.

My family was murdered in Lvov, Belzec and Auschwitz.

I’m just sorry we didn’t have more nukes to use on the 2 million Japanese troops who committed genocide against our Chinese allies, American, British, Commonwealth troops, and the one million Philippino civilians they wantonly killed.

Bataan Death March. Unit 731.

The enemy deserved everything they got, which was not enough.

No apologies except for not being able to kill several more million of these Axis bastards.


40 posted on 09/12/2012 11:25:21 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: AFreeBird

I’m currently reading a book about Count Ciano, Mussolini’s bro-in-law and foreign minister. He hated the Nazis but of course gleaned a lot of info from them about Hitler’s thoughts and actions. According to Ciano, Hitler didn’t think Britain and France would help Poland, and he thought the U.S. would stay out of the war. In fact, Hitler was wrong about virtually everything he thought wouldn’t happen as regards WWII. Ciano was eventually dismissed by Il Duce and later shot by a firing squad before the end of the war.


41 posted on 09/13/2012 4:01:35 AM PDT by driftless2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: driftless2

I’m sorry... Ciano was Il Duce’s son-in-law, not bro-in-law.


42 posted on 09/13/2012 4:02:55 AM PDT by driftless2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: DustyMoment
"war declared"

Factually inaccurate. We declared war on Japan Dec. 8 and three days later war on Germany. That's only because Germany first declared war on us.

43 posted on 09/13/2012 4:08:11 AM PDT by driftless2
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: DustyMoment
Notice that, when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, FDR declared war on Germany, NOT Japan.

On December 8, 1941, FDR asked Congress to declare war on Japan. The war with Germany and Italy came three days later when those countries declared war on the United States.

44 posted on 09/13/2012 6:29:02 AM PDT by Fiji Hill (Deo Vindice!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: DallasBiff
But the question remains, what would FDR have done if the American embassy in Berlin had been breached in 1939, by nazi brownshirt, SS, thugs.

Yes, that's an interesting question.

In April, 1939, FDR sent Hitler a rather naive telegram essentially asking him not to invade a number of territories that he listed, ranging from Ireland to Iran. Using an ironic tone of voice, Hitler read it to the Reichstag, or diet, the German legislature, which by that time consisted solely of Nazis, and they burst out laughing.

Suppose, following the speech, a mob of "angry citizens" just happened to show up at the embassy and storm it, resulting in the loss of life of American personnel. My speculation would be that FDR would have demanded an apology and an indemnity, as he did after the Panay incident of December, 1937, when Japanese air and naval forces in China sank an American warship. An inadequate response would have led to a breach in diplomatic relations and maybe even war.

45 posted on 09/13/2012 6:51:55 AM PDT by Fiji Hill (Deo Vindice!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: annieokie

Great! Thank you for taking an interest.


46 posted on 09/13/2012 9:40:22 AM PDT by Parmy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson