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REPORTS: No Live Ammo for Marines
The Washington Free Beacon ^ | Sept 13. 2012 | Adam Kredo

Posted on 09/13/2012 9:38:46 AM PDT by Cliff Dweller

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To: Cliff Dweller

You should see the pictures of the US Consulate in Benghazi. It’s just an building or an upscale house that can be easily attacked and breached. Usually US embassies and consulates are built like fortresses in that part of the world.

The DUmb Obama administration, by ignoring proper security requirements, was inviting the terrorists to attack that US consulate.


101 posted on 09/13/2012 10:37:37 AM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Cliff Dweller

That is Obama, Hillary and our Congress fault.


102 posted on 09/13/2012 10:37:38 AM PDT by freekitty (Give me back my conservative vote; then find me a real conservative to vote for)
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To: Cliff Dweller

Also, this isn’t new. It happened under Bush too.


103 posted on 09/13/2012 10:38:32 AM PDT by jjm2111
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To: Noamie

Romney beat him to that statement and condemned Obama.
________________________________________

Romney should have condemned the attacks but he should not have mentioned Obama in that first statement...

That made it political...

Since he is so close to maybe becoming president himself I think it would have been OK for Willard to condemn the attacks, and say what should be done immediately ...arrange for American citizens to evacuate safely..send troops to shore up security, send the Navy, call out the Marines, etc...

But by mentioning Obama he lost the opportunity to let America know how he would react in the times of emergency events...

There was time for either others blaming Obama immediately or Willard himself saying something a few days later...

His timing was bad...

I dont want to hear “its Bush’s fault”

I want to hear what the president is going to do to protect and defend our country when something like this happens...

and that we wont accept it but will fight back..

I also want to know that our Marines will be armed to the teeth like they used to be...

which probably wouold have stopped the Islamic terrorists from getting on the walls...


104 posted on 09/13/2012 10:38:40 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana

>and willard doesnt like nasty guns either...

This one is on your messiah barry and your democrat party, troll.


105 posted on 09/13/2012 10:40:24 AM PDT by soycd
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To: Tennessee Nana

They’ll be plenty of time for Mitt to explain his foreign policy.

I think it’s a win for Romney because he finally showed some spunk....only diehard Obamabots are upset with what he said, and they weren’t going to vote for him anyway.


106 posted on 09/13/2012 10:41:07 AM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
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To: Cliff Dweller

It’s Beirut 1983 all over again.


107 posted on 09/13/2012 10:46:32 AM PDT by Rebelbase (The most transparent administration ever is clear as mud.)
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To: Noamie
Excellent and accurate, about the only thing you didn't specifically point out was that DURING the engagement, the al Queda assassination squad received real time intelligence on the Ambassador's vehicle, convoy and route, the safe house location and when the Ambassador arrived, the relief force, their timing, route and rendezvous destination.
108 posted on 09/13/2012 10:47:47 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Cliff Dweller

The marines should have tossed her a** in the street as a human shield.


109 posted on 09/13/2012 10:49:55 AM PDT by formosa
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To: doug from upland

No hes a TWO Time draft dodger...

He wasnt interested in serving our country in Vietnam

and he wasnt interested in his five boys serving in Iraq or Afghanistan...

Thats not a guy who is fit to be CinC...

We have another Bill Clinton...


110 posted on 09/13/2012 10:53:44 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: OneVike

Appreciated, but no need to credit me. I only pulled from what is being written. Which is confusing.

One person noted the high level of coordination between the AQL forces. That’s a very important point.


111 posted on 09/13/2012 10:57:56 AM PDT by Noamie
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To: Jeff Head; Impy; TigersEye; floriduh voter; snippy_about_it; ovrtaxt; syriacus; ...

Ping!


112 posted on 09/13/2012 11:01:11 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (George Washington: [Government] is a dangerous servant and a terrible master.)
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To: The Cajun

Get madder!

Obama Calls Libyan President to Thank Him For Support After US Ambassador Murdered


113 posted on 09/13/2012 11:01:37 AM PDT by onyx (FREE REPUBLIC IS HERE TO STAY! DONATE MONTHLY! IF YOU WANT ON SARAH PALIN''S PING LIST, LET ME KNOW)
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To: soycd

“messiah” ???

So walkonwaterweirdwillard is your messiah, troll ???


114 posted on 09/13/2012 11:01:56 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana

Unless I am mistaken since circa 1974 it has been an “All Volunteer Force”. Hence the Romney boys can do as they please...

Romney’s actions before then (Like Clinton’s, our first Presidential Draft Dodger) are something they have to atone for if atonement is required.

O’Bozo chose NOT to serve either... if you ask me, as a retired Navy Vet, he never would have made it.


115 posted on 09/13/2012 11:01:57 AM PDT by Cliff Dweller (No such thing as a threat... just targets)
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To: Tennessee Nana

Romney should make a promise: “My marines will have bullets!”


116 posted on 09/13/2012 11:03:20 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (George Washington: [Government] is a dangerous servant and a terrible master.)
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To: Cliff Dweller
Here is how the Marine Security Detachment works at an Embassy:

Organizationally, they work under the direction of a State Department Regional Security Officer who is in the Administrative Section and works for the Management/Admin officer. Everyone at the Embassy is under the authority of the Ambassador.

The MSG posts at an Embassy are behind bulletproof windows and doors, aka, the secure perimeter. The MSG's control access to the offices and spaces behind the secure perimeter. They literally buzz in visitors and locally engaged employees so they can access the various offices in the Embassy. American employees have access codes that can allow them to get thru the bulletproof doors. All visitors without security clearances including FSNs are escorted.

The primary duties of the MSGs are to secure classified equipment and materials and depending on the circumstances, protection of the facilities and personnel.

Contract guards and host country security personnel are responsibile for protecting the perimeter of the Embassy and screening visitors entering the compound or building outside the secure perimeter. They also screen all vehicles entering the compound and control vehicle access barriers. The RSO and MSGs coordinate their efforts with the contract guards and host country security personnel. Located in the MSG posts is a battery of TV monitors that allow them to monitor what is going on.

The ROE are usually set by the RSO in conjunction with the Department of State and the Ambassador. From my experience, the MSGs are armed with revolvers with bullets. In case of a major event like a breech of the perimeter, the MSGs activate an all-hands alarm, which includes getting more serious weaponry like rifles and donning bulletproof vests and helmets.

Normally, according to the Embassy Action Plan, the Marines will seek to secure the buildings and get everyone behind the secure perimeter. They would not be trying to shoot people coming over the walls or thru the gates. They are there to buy time until the host country can respond to the event and to provide sufficient time, if deemed necessary, to destroy classified material and equipment.

I find it hard to believe that the MSGs are not allowed to carry loaded revolvers. That has always been my experience and I used to be the person the RSOs reported to. Normally, the ROE on the use of deadly force will usually be limited to protecting one's own life or others who are in immediate danger. It is truly the last resort because of the ramifications it might entail with the host government, which is tasked with providing security for the Embassy or Consulate. There is no way the order would be given to shoot someone who is unarmed scaling a wall or taking down a flag.

Being familiar with the Embassy compound in Cairo, it primarily consists of two tall tower buildings, each one occupying a footprint about the size of a baseball diamond. The perimeter wall incorporates office space, e.g, consular facilities, so that people applying for visas don't gain access to the main compound. Consular facilites are hardened to protect consular employees. The Ambassador's residence is at the top of one of the two towers, i.e., penthouse type apartment. There is parking under the compound.

Again, I find it hard to believe that the MSGs would not be allowed to carry revolvers with bullets in them. Admittedly, it would be hard to use them since the MSG is inside the secure perimeter in a bullet proof booth. There have been occasional problems with Marines discharging their weapons accidentially inside the guard booths, but I don't find that to be something that would require that MSGs be disarmed.

I would not jump the gun on this report until it was better sourced. I retired some time ago, but I doubt things have changed that much in terms of security. And I find it very difficult to believe that an Ambassador would overrule an RSO or the Bureau of Diplomatic Security in terms of the ROE. So if such a rule is in place, it is coming from Washington, not the post.

117 posted on 09/13/2012 11:03:20 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Cliff Dweller
Gorman: Apone! Look ... we can't have any firing in there. I, uh ... I want you to collect magazines from everybody.

Hudson: Is he f*%#in' crazy?

Frost: What the hell are we supposed to use man? Harsh language?

118 posted on 09/13/2012 11:03:40 AM PDT by dartuser ("If you are ... what you were ... then you're not.")
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To: Cliff Dweller; Marine_Uncle

Weird conversation for this thread. Our troops and their families care more about being provided ammo than about who served or not.


119 posted on 09/13/2012 11:05:20 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (George Washington: [Government] is a dangerous servant and a terrible master.)
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To: cork
Not a day goes by, that at least once, I read something that this regime did that makes me what to pull my hair out and scream!!!

Well said.

Better said then my oft said, "Something every day." Used to post it a lot, but just quit doing it. Sometimes you reach a point. . . Pray for America and

Vote on November 6th people!

120 posted on 09/13/2012 11:06:48 AM PDT by Art in Idaho (Conservatism is the only hope for Western Civilization.)
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To: Cliff Dweller

Sure not the same military that I proudly served for 26 years. DADT gone, security details not allowed to carry ammo, Chairman of Joint Chiefs calling private citizen to try to censor comments, Commander-In-Chief bowing to foreign leaders and apologizing for insulting those who wish to destroy us, and on and on. Tears running down my cheeks.


121 posted on 09/13/2012 11:07:26 AM PDT by ImNotLying (Politicians and diapers should be changed often and for the same reason!)
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To: kabar

Kabar, I guess it has been awhile ... Marines now possess the Beretta M-9 DA SA 9MM in lieu of revolvers... ;-)


122 posted on 09/13/2012 11:07:37 AM PDT by Cliff Dweller (No such thing as a threat... just targets)
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To: Cliff Dweller
these reports indicate that the Obama administration was relying on Egypt’s new Muslim Brotherhood-backed government to ensure American security, a move observers are questioning as violence in Cairo continues to rage.

Relying on terrorists to protect your embassy personnel? No doubt Obama is an ass.

123 posted on 09/13/2012 11:08:17 AM PDT by Red Steel
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To: GeorgeWashingtonsGhost

Anyone think no ammo was Hillery’s edict???


124 posted on 09/13/2012 11:08:29 AM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
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To: Jet Jaguar; NorwegianViking; ExTexasRedhead; HollyB; FromLori; EricTheRed_VocalMinority; ...

The list, Ping

Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list

http://www.nachumlist.com/


125 posted on 09/13/2012 11:09:46 AM PDT by Nachum (The List was hacked- www.nachumlist.com)
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To: verga
Back to the Carter Years.

I'd argue that this is much worse.

During the Iran hostage crisis, the MSM continuously covered the story day after day. I remember graphics on screen with the number of days in captivity superimposed on it.

I remember the failed rescue attempt being placed squarely on Carter's doorstep. I was a child, and even I knew that Carter was inept based only on news reports.

The press, regardless of their leanings, REPORTED on the crisis. I believe that this was a major part in what doomed the Carter presidency to only one term.

When we look at the Obama debacle, we are witnessing a media that is doing whatever it can to cover for the president. In fact, in its attacks on Romney, we can see that they appear to actually be hoping that Obama can end up getting a boost from this situation while dragging Romney down.

This is really bad. The gradual dumbing down of the American public over the years has resulted in large numbers that can be spoon-fed their news. Many are unable to think and investigate any deeper than the rhetoric they hear. Regardless of the internet and alternative media, I personally think the MSM is way more powerful than it was back in 1979.

At the very least, in '79 the press still held some modicum of integrity. And the public still seemed to share a common nationalistic bond. Integrity is gone now. Nationalism has been replaced by "what's in it for me".

'79 was a long time ago, and I was just a kid. So my opinion may be off, but it's certainly how I see it. The MSM needs to be confronted more intensely than it has been.
126 posted on 09/13/2012 11:10:20 AM PDT by mmichaels1970
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To: kabar

I would ad that the full complement of Marines varies from Embassy to Embassy. In 2002 they doubled the number in Paki from 11 to 22.

Yesterday someone posted: no Marines in consulate in Libya because it was not an embassy. Other places I have read they had 8 marines responding to the incident.

When my son was an MSG in Jordan, they had live rounds even though the local government was very cooperative. The Jordanians used to call and tell the details of demonstrations and how long they would let it go until the media had their photos and the locals broke it up.


127 posted on 09/13/2012 11:10:46 AM PDT by morphing libertarian
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To: Cliff Dweller; ASA Vet; BIGLOOK; HiJinx; SandRat; Arrowhead1952; Lazamataz; Bride Of Old Sarge
JAYSUS EFF'N CHRIST!!
128 posted on 09/13/2012 11:10:57 AM PDT by Old Sarge (We are now officially over the precipice, we just havent struck the ground yet)
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To: Cliff Dweller

I would also like to enter a big Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.


129 posted on 09/13/2012 11:11:57 AM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Honor must be earned.)
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To: Cliff Dweller
Maybe I should have said sidearm. The .45 is still the best people stopper. Weapon of choice.

FYI: We now know that one of the two previously undenified Americans killed in Benghazi was a former SEAL. I bet he was the one who was holding them off for the five hours that the compound was under attack.

130 posted on 09/13/2012 11:12:08 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Cliff Dweller

Assumptions & Unknowns:
- Marines may or may have not been stationed in Bengazi; although always found in Embassies, some consulates do others do not depending on the country and Marine numbers available
- Marines may or may have not been escorting Ambassador Stevens when he was murdered; if they where they may or not may have been armed

Facts:
- Marines are under the supervision and control of the RSO (State Dept Security employee bureaucrat) at every US Embassy across the world who in turn works for the Ambassador
- Ambassadors can and often do mandate who in the Embassy can/cannot carry loaded weapons in country or hold weapons and ammo in their spaces to include DoD military Attaches, FBI LEGATT, DEA, DHS and others
- Extremely bad security conditions (criminal or terrorist) sometimes force Ambassadors to acquiesce and allow only trained personnel under unique circumstances (military & Federal agents of all sorts) to store, maintain and/or sometimes carry loaded weapons in country

Worst case scenario: If he had Marine escort when murdered, Ambassador Stevens likely did not allow his Marines to carry loaded weapons to prevent any Libyans from ever being injured or killed and avoid political heat. I have seen this rationale used in many places and I think it is borne of State Dept corporate distrust of trained young Marines with loaded weapons in volatile situations. The lack of any reports related to dead or injured perps who attacked the Consulate in Bengazi lead me to this conclusion until corroborated or disproved by credible sources; sad.

Regards


131 posted on 09/13/2012 11:12:20 AM PDT by Sine_Pari
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To: Cliff Dweller
Ambassadors who demand the Barney Fife approach for security


132 posted on 09/13/2012 11:12:56 AM PDT by thingumbob (I'm a bitter clinger...I dare you to take my gun)
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To: Tennessee Nana

Ms Nana,
I am a 20 year 1 Month and 18 days United States Navy Retired Petty Officer(NCO) and I will GIVE to “Mitt” Rommney 1 of my dd-214’s(Discharge Papers) and go back on ACTIVE DUTY to make up for my 4 years of “lost” time(I am 51 and it would be VERY HARD to get back w/in PT Standards) THAT is how STRONGLY I feel about gettting rid of this Administration!


133 posted on 09/13/2012 11:14:03 AM PDT by US Navy Vet (Go Packers! Go Rockies! Go Boston Bruins! See, I'm "Diverse"!)
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March

Hillary's Marines!

.

.

.

.

.

I am not amused.

134 posted on 09/13/2012 11:15:13 AM PDT by TigersEye (dishonorabledisclosure.com - OPSEC (give them support))
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To: ImNotLying
Tears running down my cheeks.

I got first dibs on the kleenex, over here...

135 posted on 09/13/2012 11:15:22 AM PDT by Old Sarge (We are now officially over the precipice, we just havent struck the ground yet)
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To: Cliff Dweller

as a veteran I couldnt understand veterans voting for Bill Clinton...

and i dont understand now that veterans would vote fore either Obama or Willard...

Obama wasnt part of a draft but he has proven that he has no interest in our military being successful...

Willard has mocked our troops in the past and now wants to be CinC...He has no cared about the troops in the past, now he wants to rule over them..

Will he give the generals a free hand ??? who knows...

In 2008 during a debate when asked what he would do in the case of an emergency just like the one we have now, would he send the troops he said he woulod have to talk to his attorneys first...Say WHAT ???

I hope he has changed his mind about that...

We need a president who will arm the trrops to the teeth and allow the generals to lead...

one who wont go back to bed but will stay by the phone when something happens...

if all that is coming out now about Obamas actions is true its more than negligence...

apparantly he did send the Navy but he should have also canceled his fund raising...

his place is in Washington until the crisis is over...

What would Willard do in the same place ???

He hasnt canceled his fundraising or campaign either...


136 posted on 09/13/2012 11:16:18 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Cliff Dweller

Tell her to “Go to Hell”.


137 posted on 09/13/2012 11:16:33 AM PDT by ThomasMore (Islam is the Whore of Babylon!)
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To: Sine_Pari

This is NOT Libya, it was Ambassador to Egypt. Suppose each Embassy/Ambassador can implement their own policies.

Also Diplomatic Security is armed, I know of no exceptions.


138 posted on 09/13/2012 11:17:21 AM PDT by Cliff Dweller (No such thing as a threat... just targets)
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To: Cliff Dweller

Holy. F***ing. S**t.

What is WRONG with this Administration!??


139 posted on 09/13/2012 11:17:31 AM PDT by dinodino
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To: Cliff Dweller

Quickly going through Patterson’s bio it looks like she’s been around the block a few times. I’m not sure it was her that made the directive, I think it came from higher up, being Hillary or Barry Junior. Gonna bet on Hillary though given it was probably her that talked Bill into banning live ammo on military bases.


140 posted on 09/13/2012 11:20:45 AM PDT by Domandred (Fdisk, format, and reinstall the entire .gov system.)
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To: Tennessee Nana; stephenjohnbanker; onyx; All
Its like someone breaking into the White House grounds...

You know somethin' Nana? You just hit on a FANTASTIC idea!

SOMEBODY needs to ask 0bama WHY in a civilized nation like ours, contrasted with the radical goons and thugs in Egypt, Libya, etc., the White House security staff need ammo for their guns, after all: if our Marines are denied ammo in hazardous duty posts, why on Earth would the Secret Service and White House security staff need to have ammo here at home? When was the last time that a bunch of Islamic terrorists tried to storm the White House? NEVER! So why all the guns, ammo and security?
141 posted on 09/13/2012 11:21:30 AM PDT by mkjessup (Jimmy Carter is the Skidmark in America's panties, 0bama is the yellow stain in front!)
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To: morphing libertarian
Yesterday someone posted: no Marines in consulate in Libya because it was not an embassy.

Consulates can have MSGs and most do. This was supposed to be an interim facility. It was secured by lock and key. No bulletproof glass, not even coated with mylar.

If you want to make your blood boil read this WP story about the attack on the consulate.

"Benghazi residents said the consulate never had a major security presence, and lawmakers in Washington described it as a “temporary” facility that did not meet the latest State Department security requirements and was scheduled to be replaced. U.S. military officials said it was not guarded by U.S. Marines, as are most embassies and many consulates."

"There had been signs of a threat earlier. On June 5, a bomb exploded outside the gates of the consulate in the first attack on an American facility since the fall of Gaddafi. No one was injured."

"A jihadist group calling itself “Brigades of Imprisoned Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman” claimed responsibility, according to the Site monitoring service. The group posted a message on jihadist forums saying the attack was a response to the drone strike that killed Libi in Pakistan on June 4. The group is named after the blind Egyptian sheik who is serving a life sentence for his role in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing."

"On June 10, two British bodyguards were injured in an attack in Benghazi on a convoy carrying the British ambassador. The assailants used rocket-propelled grenades to attack the convoy as it was pulling out of the British Consulate.

"Militants also have been blamed for attacks on the Tunisian Consulate in Benghazi and on the International Committee of the Red Cross in Libya."

If we had a real MSM in this country, the question would be, "Why did we put Americans at risk in such an unprotected facility given the conditions in Libya and previous recent attacks in Benghazi against the consulate and British interests. This needs to be investigated immediately.

I agree with you. I find it very hard to believe that our MSGs are not armed with live rounds. I doubt the USMC would agree to send them into harm's way without some means of self-defense. That is what they are trained for.

142 posted on 09/13/2012 11:21:51 AM PDT by kabar
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To: Arthur Wildfire! March; onyx; MagUSNRET

Greetings AWM...missed you! Thanks for ping.

onyx: “Get madder! “

And I was so calm during the DNC Convention (lol), but I might have gotten myself on a list with this one last night on the Mark Levin thread:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2930073/posts?page=59#59

At least dear Mags approved!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2930073/posts?page=60#60

And that was before this report (waiting for other reliable sources on this):

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2930439/posts


143 posted on 09/13/2012 11:22:21 AM PDT by thouworm (.)
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To: ExTexasRedhead
"Anyone think no ammo was Hillery’s edict???"

I do, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the edict was passed along to the muslim brotherhood by her "trusted" aide Huma Abedin.

Rep. Bachmann tried to warn everyone but just got a bunch of grief for her efforts

144 posted on 09/13/2012 11:22:41 AM PDT by voteNRA (A citizenry armed with rifles simply cannot be tyrannized)
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To: Tennessee Nana
Willard has mocked our troops in the past

Name your source Nana.

And I say that in the nicest possible way.
145 posted on 09/13/2012 11:22:51 AM PDT by mkjessup (Jimmy Carter is the Skidmark in America's panties, 0bama is the yellow stain in front!)
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To: Cliff Dweller

The USMC generals were LTs when the so-called Marine Corps barracks in Beirut was blown up, by a truck driver who ran over unarmed (no mags in rifles) guards.

This is even worse. The state dept would rather have dead Marines and ambassadors, then risk a “flap” not under their direct control.

Better that people die, than that loss of control.


146 posted on 09/13/2012 11:23:11 AM PDT by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Cliff Dweller

Why have a military presence in an embassy if they can’t carry a weapon. That in and of itself is sheer ignorance. Better to put the liberal apology tour in those places. See how fast they can talk their way out of being sodomized, impaled and beheaded by the barbarians.


147 posted on 09/13/2012 11:25:58 AM PDT by ThomasMore (Islam is the Whore of Babylon!)
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To: Signalman; Nachum; Jeff Head; Impy; TigersEye; floriduh voter; snippy_about_it; ovrtaxt; ...

Not just killed ... sodomized

Heard on Rush, confirmed on google search:

sodomized and killed U.S. ambassador to Libya, ... The
U.S. embassy in Benghazi was attacked by the mercenaries ...

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=emabassy&as_epq=sodomized&as_oq=&as_eq=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&lr=&cr=&as_qdr=all&as_sitesearch=&as_occt=&safe=images&as_filetype=&as_rights=not+filtered+by+license


148 posted on 09/13/2012 11:26:14 AM PDT by Arthur Wildfire! March (George Washington: [Government] is a dangerous servant and a terrible master.)
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To: mkjessup

Willard himself...


149 posted on 09/13/2012 11:28:31 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana

So say it. You want Obama to have four more years rather than have the dreaded Mormon in there. Come on, don’t be afraid. Say it. Tell us you want Obama to win.


150 posted on 09/13/2012 11:30:19 AM PDT by doug from upland (I don't like RINOs, but I love my country more than I hate Romney...Muslim marxist, get out!)
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