Skip to comments.REPORTS: No Live Ammo for Marines
Posted on 09/13/2012 9:38:46 AM PDT by Cliff Dweller
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You should see the pictures of the US Consulate in Benghazi. It’s just an building or an upscale house that can be easily attacked and breached. Usually US embassies and consulates are built like fortresses in that part of the world.
The DUmb Obama administration, by ignoring proper security requirements, was inviting the terrorists to attack that US consulate.
That is Obama, Hillary and our Congress fault.
Also, this isn’t new. It happened under Bush too.
Romney beat him to that statement and condemned Obama.
Romney should have condemned the attacks but he should not have mentioned Obama in that first statement...
That made it political...
Since he is so close to maybe becoming president himself I think it would have been OK for Willard to condemn the attacks, and say what should be done immediately ...arrange for American citizens to evacuate safely..send troops to shore up security, send the Navy, call out the Marines, etc...
But by mentioning Obama he lost the opportunity to let America know how he would react in the times of emergency events...
There was time for either others blaming Obama immediately or Willard himself saying something a few days later...
His timing was bad...
I dont want to hear “its Bush’s fault”
I want to hear what the president is going to do to protect and defend our country when something like this happens...
and that we wont accept it but will fight back..
I also want to know that our Marines will be armed to the teeth like they used to be...
which probably wouold have stopped the Islamic terrorists from getting on the walls...
>and willard doesnt like nasty guns either...
This one is on your messiah barry and your democrat party, troll.
They’ll be plenty of time for Mitt to explain his foreign policy.
I think it’s a win for Romney because he finally showed some spunk....only diehard Obamabots are upset with what he said, and they weren’t going to vote for him anyway.
It’s Beirut 1983 all over again.
The marines should have tossed her a** in the street as a human shield.
No hes a TWO Time draft dodger...
He wasnt interested in serving our country in Vietnam
and he wasnt interested in his five boys serving in Iraq or Afghanistan...
Thats not a guy who is fit to be CinC...
We have another Bill Clinton...
Appreciated, but no need to credit me. I only pulled from what is being written. Which is confusing.
One person noted the high level of coordination between the AQL forces. That’s a very important point.
So walkonwaterweirdwillard is your messiah, troll ???
Unless I am mistaken since circa 1974 it has been an “All Volunteer Force”. Hence the Romney boys can do as they please...
Romney’s actions before then (Like Clinton’s, our first Presidential Draft Dodger) are something they have to atone for if atonement is required.
O’Bozo chose NOT to serve either... if you ask me, as a retired Navy Vet, he never would have made it.
Romney should make a promise: “My marines will have bullets!”
Organizationally, they work under the direction of a State Department Regional Security Officer who is in the Administrative Section and works for the Management/Admin officer. Everyone at the Embassy is under the authority of the Ambassador.
The MSG posts at an Embassy are behind bulletproof windows and doors, aka, the secure perimeter. The MSG's control access to the offices and spaces behind the secure perimeter. They literally buzz in visitors and locally engaged employees so they can access the various offices in the Embassy. American employees have access codes that can allow them to get thru the bulletproof doors. All visitors without security clearances including FSNs are escorted.
The primary duties of the MSGs are to secure classified equipment and materials and depending on the circumstances, protection of the facilities and personnel.
Contract guards and host country security personnel are responsibile for protecting the perimeter of the Embassy and screening visitors entering the compound or building outside the secure perimeter. They also screen all vehicles entering the compound and control vehicle access barriers. The RSO and MSGs coordinate their efforts with the contract guards and host country security personnel. Located in the MSG posts is a battery of TV monitors that allow them to monitor what is going on.
The ROE are usually set by the RSO in conjunction with the Department of State and the Ambassador. From my experience, the MSGs are armed with revolvers with bullets. In case of a major event like a breech of the perimeter, the MSGs activate an all-hands alarm, which includes getting more serious weaponry like rifles and donning bulletproof vests and helmets.
Normally, according to the Embassy Action Plan, the Marines will seek to secure the buildings and get everyone behind the secure perimeter. They would not be trying to shoot people coming over the walls or thru the gates. They are there to buy time until the host country can respond to the event and to provide sufficient time, if deemed necessary, to destroy classified material and equipment.
I find it hard to believe that the MSGs are not allowed to carry loaded revolvers. That has always been my experience and I used to be the person the RSOs reported to. Normally, the ROE on the use of deadly force will usually be limited to protecting one's own life or others who are in immediate danger. It is truly the last resort because of the ramifications it might entail with the host government, which is tasked with providing security for the Embassy or Consulate. There is no way the order would be given to shoot someone who is unarmed scaling a wall or taking down a flag.
Being familiar with the Embassy compound in Cairo, it primarily consists of two tall tower buildings, each one occupying a footprint about the size of a baseball diamond. The perimeter wall incorporates office space, e.g, consular facilities, so that people applying for visas don't gain access to the main compound. Consular facilites are hardened to protect consular employees. The Ambassador's residence is at the top of one of the two towers, i.e., penthouse type apartment. There is parking under the compound.
Again, I find it hard to believe that the MSGs would not be allowed to carry revolvers with bullets in them. Admittedly, it would be hard to use them since the MSG is inside the secure perimeter in a bullet proof booth. There have been occasional problems with Marines discharging their weapons accidentially inside the guard booths, but I don't find that to be something that would require that MSGs be disarmed.
I would not jump the gun on this report until it was better sourced. I retired some time ago, but I doubt things have changed that much in terms of security. And I find it very difficult to believe that an Ambassador would overrule an RSO or the Bureau of Diplomatic Security in terms of the ROE. So if such a rule is in place, it is coming from Washington, not the post.
Hudson: Is he f*%#in' crazy?
Frost: What the hell are we supposed to use man? Harsh language?
Weird conversation for this thread. Our troops and their families care more about being provided ammo than about who served or not.
Better said then my oft said, "Something every day." Used to post it a lot, but just quit doing it. Sometimes you reach a point. . . Pray for America and
Vote on November 6th people!
Sure not the same military that I proudly served for 26 years. DADT gone, security details not allowed to carry ammo, Chairman of Joint Chiefs calling private citizen to try to censor comments, Commander-In-Chief bowing to foreign leaders and apologizing for insulting those who wish to destroy us, and on and on. Tears running down my cheeks.
Kabar, I guess it has been awhile ... Marines now possess the Beretta M-9 DA SA 9MM in lieu of revolvers... ;-)
Relying on terrorists to protect your embassy personnel? No doubt Obama is an ass.
Anyone think no ammo was Hillery’s edict???
The list, Ping
Let me know if you would like to be on or off the ping list
I would ad that the full complement of Marines varies from Embassy to Embassy. In 2002 they doubled the number in Paki from 11 to 22.
Yesterday someone posted: no Marines in consulate in Libya because it was not an embassy. Other places I have read they had 8 marines responding to the incident.
When my son was an MSG in Jordan, they had live rounds even though the local government was very cooperative. The Jordanians used to call and tell the details of demonstrations and how long they would let it go until the media had their photos and the locals broke it up.
I would also like to enter a big Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.
FYI: We now know that one of the two previously undenified Americans killed in Benghazi was a former SEAL. I bet he was the one who was holding them off for the five hours that the compound was under attack.
Assumptions & Unknowns:
- Marines may or may have not been stationed in Bengazi; although always found in Embassies, some consulates do others do not depending on the country and Marine numbers available
- Marines may or may have not been escorting Ambassador Stevens when he was murdered; if they where they may or not may have been armed
- Marines are under the supervision and control of the RSO (State Dept Security employee bureaucrat) at every US Embassy across the world who in turn works for the Ambassador
- Ambassadors can and often do mandate who in the Embassy can/cannot carry loaded weapons in country or hold weapons and ammo in their spaces to include DoD military Attaches, FBI LEGATT, DEA, DHS and others
- Extremely bad security conditions (criminal or terrorist) sometimes force Ambassadors to acquiesce and allow only trained personnel under unique circumstances (military & Federal agents of all sorts) to store, maintain and/or sometimes carry loaded weapons in country
Worst case scenario: If he had Marine escort when murdered, Ambassador Stevens likely did not allow his Marines to carry loaded weapons to prevent any Libyans from ever being injured or killed and avoid political heat. I have seen this rationale used in many places and I think it is borne of State Dept corporate distrust of trained young Marines with loaded weapons in volatile situations. The lack of any reports related to dead or injured perps who attacked the Consulate in Bengazi lead me to this conclusion until corroborated or disproved by credible sources; sad.
I am a 20 year 1 Month and 18 days United States Navy Retired Petty Officer(NCO) and I will GIVE to “Mitt” Rommney 1 of my dd-214’s(Discharge Papers) and go back on ACTIVE DUTY to make up for my 4 years of “lost” time(I am 51 and it would be VERY HARD to get back w/in PT Standards) THAT is how STRONGLY I feel about gettting rid of this Administration!
I am not amused.
I got first dibs on the kleenex, over here...
as a veteran I couldnt understand veterans voting for Bill Clinton...
and i dont understand now that veterans would vote fore either Obama or Willard...
Obama wasnt part of a draft but he has proven that he has no interest in our military being successful...
Willard has mocked our troops in the past and now wants to be CinC...He has no cared about the troops in the past, now he wants to rule over them..
Will he give the generals a free hand ??? who knows...
In 2008 during a debate when asked what he would do in the case of an emergency just like the one we have now, would he send the troops he said he woulod have to talk to his attorneys first...Say WHAT ???
I hope he has changed his mind about that...
We need a president who will arm the trrops to the teeth and allow the generals to lead...
one who wont go back to bed but will stay by the phone when something happens...
if all that is coming out now about Obamas actions is true its more than negligence...
apparantly he did send the Navy but he should have also canceled his fund raising...
his place is in Washington until the crisis is over...
What would Willard do in the same place ???
He hasnt canceled his fundraising or campaign either...
Tell her to “Go to Hell”.
This is NOT Libya, it was Ambassador to Egypt. Suppose each Embassy/Ambassador can implement their own policies.
Also Diplomatic Security is armed, I know of no exceptions.
Holy. F***ing. S**t.
What is WRONG with this Administration!??
Quickly going through Patterson’s bio it looks like she’s been around the block a few times. I’m not sure it was her that made the directive, I think it came from higher up, being Hillary or Barry Junior. Gonna bet on Hillary though given it was probably her that talked Bill into banning live ammo on military bases.
Consulates can have MSGs and most do. This was supposed to be an interim facility. It was secured by lock and key. No bulletproof glass, not even coated with mylar.
"Benghazi residents said the consulate never had a major security presence, and lawmakers in Washington described it as a temporary facility that did not meet the latest State Department security requirements and was scheduled to be replaced. U.S. military officials said it was not guarded by U.S. Marines, as are most embassies and many consulates."
"There had been signs of a threat earlier. On June 5, a bomb exploded outside the gates of the consulate in the first attack on an American facility since the fall of Gaddafi. No one was injured."
"A jihadist group calling itself Brigades of Imprisoned Sheik Omar Abdel-Rahman claimed responsibility, according to the Site monitoring service. The group posted a message on jihadist forums saying the attack was a response to the drone strike that killed Libi in Pakistan on June 4. The group is named after the blind Egyptian sheik who is serving a life sentence for his role in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing."
"On June 10, two British bodyguards were injured in an attack in Benghazi on a convoy carrying the British ambassador. The assailants used rocket-propelled grenades to attack the convoy as it was pulling out of the British Consulate.
"Militants also have been blamed for attacks on the Tunisian Consulate in Benghazi and on the International Committee of the Red Cross in Libya."
If we had a real MSM in this country, the question would be, "Why did we put Americans at risk in such an unprotected facility given the conditions in Libya and previous recent attacks in Benghazi against the consulate and British interests. This needs to be investigated immediately.
I agree with you. I find it very hard to believe that our MSGs are not armed with live rounds. I doubt the USMC would agree to send them into harm's way without some means of self-defense. That is what they are trained for.
Greetings AWM...missed you! Thanks for ping.
onyx: “Get madder! “
And I was so calm during the DNC Convention (lol), but I might have gotten myself on a list with this one last night on the Mark Levin thread:
At least dear Mags approved!
And that was before this report (waiting for other reliable sources on this):
I do, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the edict was passed along to the muslim brotherhood by her "trusted" aide Huma Abedin.
Rep. Bachmann tried to warn everyone but just got a bunch of grief for her efforts
The USMC generals were LTs when the so-called Marine Corps barracks in Beirut was blown up, by a truck driver who ran over unarmed (no mags in rifles) guards.
This is even worse. The state dept would rather have dead Marines and ambassadors, then risk a “flap” not under their direct control.
Better that people die, than that loss of control.
Why have a military presence in an embassy if they can’t carry a weapon. That in and of itself is sheer ignorance. Better to put the liberal apology tour in those places. See how fast they can talk their way out of being sodomized, impaled and beheaded by the barbarians.
Not just killed ... sodomized
Heard on Rush, confirmed on google search:
sodomized and killed U.S. ambassador to Libya, ... The
U.S. embassy in Benghazi was attacked by the mercenaries ...
So say it. You want Obama to have four more years rather than have the dreaded Mormon in there. Come on, don’t be afraid. Say it. Tell us you want Obama to win.
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