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Defect found in Boeing GE engine not isolated
Aiken Standard ^ | 15 Sept 2012 | Brendan Kearney

Posted on 09/15/2012 7:55:47 PM PDT by smokingfrog

The engine installed on every Boeing 787 built in South Carolina so far has a problem.

The first sign something was wrong came on a Saturday afternoon in July when the second locally made Dreamliner experienced a pre-flight engine failure as it accelerated down the runway at Charleston International Airport.

A month and a half later, the extent of the defect has become clearer — and bigger.

The North Charleston incident was not isolated, as had been the original hope. Instead, two other General Electric-made GEnx engines have been found to suffer from a similar defect in the drive shaft.

And the concern is that the problem could be even more widespread, inherent to the make-up of the engine itself.

That news came Friday afternoon as the National Transportation Safety Board, which has been investigating the July 28 incident, issued a pair of urgent safety recommendations regarding the fan midshafts of GEnx engines.

The NTSB called on the Federal Aviation Administration to require ultrasound inspections of all GEnx-powered 787s and 747s not already inspected before any further flight.

The NTSB also recommended that the FAA require repetitive inspections of the fan midshafts of all GEnx engines “at a sufficiently short interval that would permit multiple inspections and the detection of a crack before it could reach critical length and the FMS fractures.”

That’s what happened in Charleston in July and on Tuesday as a Boeing 747-8F cargo jet was preparing to take off from Shanghai.

(Excerpt) Read more at aikenstandard.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events; US: South Carolina
KEYWORDS: boeing; dreamliner; generalelectric; ntsb
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1 posted on 09/15/2012 7:55:53 PM PDT by smokingfrog
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To: smokingfrog

Dollar to donuts an engineer somewhere sounded the alarm months ago only to be told to shut up by “management”.


2 posted on 09/15/2012 8:00:28 PM PDT by CodeToad (Be Prepared...They Are.)
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To: smokingfrog

Out of curiosity, were the GE engines manufactured in a union shop in Ohio, before being sent to the Boeing facility in right-to-work South Caroina?


3 posted on 09/15/2012 8:02:26 PM PDT by aposiopetic
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To: smokingfrog
Am I correct in assuming that the SC facility is non-union??? If that is correct, it raises the possibility of sabotage since only the SC plant seems to have a problem.
4 posted on 09/15/2012 8:03:54 PM PDT by Ozymandias Ghost
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To: smokingfrog
Coming out of the metals industry, I learned that whenever the Steelworkers were going out on strike they found clever ways to sabotage equipment. If we hadn't found one such early on, there would have been injuries or possibly deaths.

The unions are very unhappy about the South Carolina plant. Just saying....

5 posted on 09/15/2012 8:05:36 PM PDT by elpadre (AfganistaMr Obama said the goal was to "disrupt, dismantle and defeat al-hereQaeda" and its allies.)
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To: CodeToad
Dollar to donuts an engineer somewhere sounded the alarm months ago only to be told to shut up by “management”.

Just like the O rings on the Challenger. May they R.I.P.

6 posted on 09/15/2012 8:09:35 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic (Joe Biden is reported to be seeking asylum in a foreign country so he does not have to debate Ryan.)
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To: aposiopetic

Good question.

I see it was tested in Ohio.

http://www.geaviation.com/engines/commercial/genx/


7 posted on 09/15/2012 8:09:50 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: smokingfrog

Everything that is GE is a piece of crap. Like my stove, and refrigerator etc;


8 posted on 09/15/2012 8:13:15 PM PDT by Spunky (Those)
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks smokingfrog.

G’night all.


9 posted on 09/15/2012 8:18:47 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: smokingfrog
Some may find this G.E. site interesting

The GEnx Theatre

I remembered from 50 years ago that GE manufactured engines in a suburb of Cincinnati.. I went looking to see it it had all been outsourced to Red China. Nope. But I could not verify where the failed parts were made.

Looks like quite a bit of interesting stuff at that site.

10 posted on 09/15/2012 8:26:37 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: Spunky

My GE dishwasher is also a piece of crap. Never again.


11 posted on 09/15/2012 8:30:41 PM PDT by Montanabound
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To: afraidfortherepublic
The O ring problem was induced by a political decision. The initial design of the boosters did not have O rings. They were to be manufactured in South Florida and barged up the Inter-coastal Waterway to the Cape. When production was moved to Utah, it changed the design since entire booster couldn't be shipped on a rail car. The rail lines including overpass size provided the new design criteria for the boosters. With no O rings and a slightly larger diameter, the shuttles would have been safer and have a larger throw weight capability.
12 posted on 09/15/2012 8:33:03 PM PDT by 103198
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To: Spunky

My GE dishwasher is also a piece of crap. Never again.


13 posted on 09/15/2012 8:33:03 PM PDT by Montanabound
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To: WilliamofCarmichael

Evendale OH if they are GE engines, used to help them with their Calma systems back in the day. We would not outsource
these to China of whatever color.


14 posted on 09/15/2012 8:34:43 PM PDT by RitchieAprile
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To: Ozymandias Ghost
Am I correct in assuming that the SC facility is non-union???

Yes you are. And you'd better believe there was one hell of a stink at the time. Look at these Google links.

15 posted on 09/15/2012 8:37:13 PM PDT by upchuck (If nobama is reelected and gets to choose more SCOTUS judges, this country is finished.)
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To: smokingfrog; l8pilot; 2A Patriot; 2nd amendment mama; 4everontheRight; 77Jimmy; ...
It must suck to be GE.


South Carolina
Ping

Send FReepmail to join or leave this list.

16 posted on 09/15/2012 8:39:54 PM PDT by upchuck (If nobama is reelected and gets to choose more SCOTUS judges, this country is finished.)
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To: RitchieAprile

This is going to be a huge problem when Dreamliner production is behind schedule. I was down at Paine field on Wednesday and there is a big long taxiway filled with airplanes that don’t have engines.


17 posted on 09/15/2012 8:41:44 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: upchuck

I have heard it said that the only thing GE makes that doesn’t suck is a vacuum cleaner.


18 posted on 09/15/2012 8:43:00 PM PDT by Clay Moore (The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of a fool to the left. Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: 103198

I could have told them that O rings wouldn’t hold. I had faucets in my house in Houston that were fitted with O rings that leaked and fell apart because of the hard water. As I remember, the Challenger launch was postponed a couple of times because of the unseasonably cold weather. There was at least one engineer who came forward and related that he’d warned them, but...we all know the rest.


19 posted on 09/15/2012 8:43:23 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic (Joe Biden is reported to be seeking asylum in a foreign country so he does not have to debate Ryan.)
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To: 103198

That was Thiokol that made the boosters, wasn’t it?


20 posted on 09/15/2012 8:46:18 PM PDT by afraidfortherepublic (Joe Biden is reported to be seeking asylum in a foreign country so he does not have to debate Ryan.)
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To: Spunky

My last GE refrigerator lasted 21 years. I was more then happy.


21 posted on 09/15/2012 8:47:02 PM PDT by UB355 (Slower traffic keep right)
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To: smokingfrog

Things that make you go “Hmmmm.”


22 posted on 09/15/2012 8:47:36 PM PDT by rlmorel ("It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong." Voltaire)
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To: smokingfrog

The Part that Broke in Charleston is a Turbine shaft made by IHI of Japan. They are thinking the 747-8 that had an engine let go in Shanghia has the same problem.

When the LPT Turbine shaft breaks, the LPT turbine wheels overspeed and it’s only a matter of time before all of the blades fly off and if it continues to spin, catastophic, uncontained disk failures can result.


23 posted on 09/15/2012 8:50:07 PM PDT by UNGN (I've been here since '98 but had nothing to say until now)
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To: Spunky

My GE fridge is a piece of crap also.


24 posted on 09/15/2012 8:51:50 PM PDT by RckyRaCoCo (I prefer liberty with danger to peace with slavery, IXNAY THE TSA!)
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To: UNGN

“The Part that Broke in Charleston is a Turbine shaft made by IHI of Japan. “

The same company that made the turbocharger for my MX5.

Interesting.


25 posted on 09/15/2012 9:06:31 PM PDT by Nik Naym (It's not my fault... I have compulsive smartass disorder.)
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To: Spunky

I’m told that everything the GE makes sucks except for their vacuums.


26 posted on 09/15/2012 9:06:52 PM PDT by killermosquito (Buffalo, Detroit (and eventually France) is what you get when liberalism runs its course.)
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To: smokingfrog

Boeing doesn’t work on the engines.


27 posted on 09/15/2012 9:12:35 PM PDT by anchorclankor (From the main part of Missouri)
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To: USNBandit

Ruh-roh!


28 posted on 09/15/2012 9:17:57 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: killermosquito

I’m told that everything the GE makes sucks except for their vacuums.


I have a GE vacuum:It blows.


29 posted on 09/15/2012 9:22:27 PM PDT by o-n-money
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To: UNGN

Someone is definitely going to get shafted over this mess.

Is it too late to put in some Rolls Royce engines?


30 posted on 09/15/2012 9:26:08 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: smokingfrog
The NTSB called on the Federal Aviation Administration to require ultrasound inspections of all GEnx-powered 787s and 747s not already inspected before any further flight.

Wish there was more info here. Does this mean that all GEnx powered aircraft are grounded, wherever they are? How many aircraft are affected? Where? How many passengers will be stranded in airports worldwide?

31 posted on 09/15/2012 9:53:41 PM PDT by ZOOKER ( Exploring the fine line between cynicism and outright depression)
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To: UB355

My first GE washer lasted 30 years. The next one lasted four. Changed brands.


32 posted on 09/15/2012 10:07:26 PM PDT by ntnychik
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To: anchorclankor
Boeing doesn’t work on the engines.

Indeeed. Who the heck is "Boeing GE"?

Required Reading:


33 posted on 09/15/2012 10:12:05 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Whatever a homosexual union might be or represent, it is not physically marital. - F.Cardinal George)
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To: smokingfrog

and I thought spending 3 hours pulling/replacing wiring because a new GE ground fault kept tripping was a pain in the rear. In the end, a new GFCI from a different company fixed the original problem. (original GFCI would not reset, GE one would trip randomly)

Turns out the GFCI outlet is not much better than their plane engine.

at least no one would die if the GFCI tripped when it should not have.

GE paying their fair share yet?


34 posted on 09/15/2012 10:15:01 PM PDT by cableguymn
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To: ZOOKER
The NTSB is aware that about 47 on-wing GEnx-2B engines remain uninspected and is concerned that they continue to operate while potentially susceptible to FMS failure.

Sounds like it's really going to affect the delivery of new planes until they figure out what the problem is.

35 posted on 09/15/2012 10:20:08 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: cableguymn

GE used to make pretty good electrical equipment.

(Better than Federal Pacific, Zinsco, and some others, anyway.)


36 posted on 09/15/2012 10:23:34 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: Spunky

You are an idiot. GE makes the best aircraft engines in the world. They are used to power 737’s, 767’s, 777’s, and many small regional jets in addition to military aircraft. The GE engine on a Boeing 777-200LR is the reason this aircraft can fly nonstop between any two cities in the world. It is incredibly reliable. GE will fix the problem with the new engine and they will stand behind it. GE owns more commercial aircraft, thru their leasing division, than any airline in the world. No I don’t work for GE, but I do work on them, along with Pratt & Whitney and Rolls Royce.


37 posted on 09/15/2012 10:31:42 PM PDT by 6AL-4V
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To: 6AL-4V

GE — Government Electric.


38 posted on 09/15/2012 10:38:00 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: 6AL-4V

Pratt makes a better engine. If a GE barks, off the wing it comes.


39 posted on 09/15/2012 10:58:35 PM PDT by Java4Jay (The evils of government are directly proportional to the tolerance of the people.)
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To: smokingfrog
More detail from Aviation Week about 5 weeks ago:

The fan shaft forms the low-pressure spool of the GEnx-1B engine and connects the fan stage with the low-pressure (LP) turbine. The shaft is made up of two main sections, and the failure is thought to have emanated in the torque-retaining nut connecting the two. The NTSB says the GEnx engine “fractured at the forward end of the shaft, rear of the threads where the retaining nut is installed.” It adds that the fan mid-shaft is “undergoing several detailed examinations, including dimensional and metallurgical inspections.”

Investigators and a team of experts from the NTSB, FAA, Boeing and GE specializing in engine systems and metallurgy found the small fracture leading to the aft part of the shaft, which is made by Ishikawajima Heavy Industries of Japan.

The fracture in the shaft assembly allowed the rotating LP turbine to move aft, clashing with the LP stators. The impact caused significant damage to the LP turbine section, pieces of which were jettisoned from the engine exhaust. The hot parts exited the engine and sparked a grass fire by the runway which caused the airport at Charleston, S.C., to be briefly shut down. The engine was powering a 787 on a pre-first flight high speed taxi run. The aircraft was the second to be completed at Boeing’s Charleston site and is destined for delivery to Air India.

The fan shaft is designed to separate in extreme stress events to avoid over-speeding the LP turbine and risking an uncontained failure.


40 posted on 09/15/2012 11:06:58 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom
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To: 6AL-4V
Photobucket
41 posted on 09/15/2012 11:09:59 PM PDT by Java4Jay (The evils of government are directly proportional to the tolerance of the people.)
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To: Java4Jay
No wonder they're having problems, those Red Arrow thingies are hitting the Fan Blades and the Red Circle thingy probably gets all tangled up when the engine is running.

And who is the Idiot that put those Red Letters right on top of the Compressor Blades? Those sharp corners will tear them up, especially the “q” that's sticking down into the mechanism.

Are those guys Color Blind or something? I can clearly see the problem and I used to be a Corporate Manager, not a Jet Engine Mechanic.

42 posted on 09/15/2012 11:33:25 PM PDT by Kickass Conservative (Republicans Hope people are Smart, but Democrats Know people are Stupid.)
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To: 6AL-4V

My brother says Rolls Royce engines are better than GE and P&W.

I’m sure he’s not prejudiced, even though he works for Rolls Royce.


43 posted on 09/15/2012 11:37:57 PM PDT by smokingfrog ( sleep with one eye open (<o> ---)
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To: 6AL-4V

Hat tip.


44 posted on 09/16/2012 12:04:21 AM PDT by stormer
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To: Clay Moore

Now that’s funny.
I regret I didn’t think of it first.


45 posted on 09/16/2012 2:44:54 AM PDT by glyptol
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To: afraidfortherepublic

It sure was.


46 posted on 09/16/2012 7:08:03 AM PDT by 103198
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To: Java4Jay
The fan shaft is designed to separate in extreme stress events to avoid over-speeding the LP turbine and risking an uncontained failure.

So to avoid overspeeding the Turbine, they intentially allow the LPT Rotors to crash into the LPT stators, because that is safer than the alternative (a grenade).

That would mean there is no reverse thrust loaded Bearing aft of this part that breaks... hmmmmmmmm....

I wonder if normal takeoff run ups are considered "extreme stress events".

GE is going to have to walk a fine line if they want to make a part that doesn't break, yet breaks when they want it to and not have the airline inspect it every 10 flights to see if its breaking yet. They are asking a lot out of IHI.

47 posted on 09/16/2012 7:51:59 AM PDT by UNGN (I've been here since '98 but had nothing to say until now)
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To: UNGN

Presumably the engine control shuts the fuel down immediately upon sensing the turbine overspeed. However, I wonder if it continues to windmill during flight; I suppose this could be a problem.


48 posted on 09/16/2012 7:58:38 AM PDT by Erasmus (Zwischen des Teufels und des tiefen, blauen Meers)
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To: stormer; 6AL-4V

I wear my hat proudly.

49 posted on 09/16/2012 8:34:01 AM PDT by Spunky (Those)
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To: smokingfrog

A similar incident occured in Japan recently.

Junk engines.


50 posted on 09/16/2012 9:37:44 AM PDT by onedoug
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