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EU offers Egypt 1 billion
European Voice ^ | Andrew Gardner

Posted on 09/15/2012 9:58:18 PM PDT by Olog-hai

EU leaders yesterday offered Egypt more than €1 billion ($1.31 billion) in aid and the prospect of better terms of trade during the first visit to Brussels by an Egyptian president.

Herman Van Rompuy, the president of the European Council, emphasized the importance of consolidating Egypt's transition to democracy, saying: “Success in Egypt would have positive repercussions on the region as a whole.”

After his meeting with Egypt's Mohammad Morsi, Van Rompuy described Egypt “as a friend, a neighbor, a partner” that could count on EU support during its democratic transition. …

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: 9112012embassyattack; egypt; egyptmb; eussr; morsi; payoffegyptmb; vanrompuy
More in a string of open support for terrorism by the European Union.
1 posted on 09/15/2012 9:58:21 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Good....this means we don’t have to give them the $1 Billion (or forgive the debt equal to that)!!!

2 posted on 09/15/2012 10:00:48 PM PDT by goodnesswins (What has happened to America?)
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To: goodnesswins

Please do EU. I’m sure that’ll tame the savages. / s

3 posted on 09/15/2012 10:03:33 PM PDT by chiller (First check the poll's Dem/Rep/Ind sampling numbers, then re-think.)
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To: goodnesswins

The bad still outweighs the good. And the liberals in our federal government won’t relent on giving in that vein besides.

4 posted on 09/15/2012 10:05:59 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: goodnesswins

Alaska. Gulf. Fracking. Develop our domestic oil and let the Muzzies go to hell where they’re headed anyway.

5 posted on 09/15/2012 10:10:08 PM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: TigerClaws

They would still regard the USA as the “Great Satan” no matter what we did, and not relent on jihad. And of course, they still have to set the rest of the world on fire for the sake of jihad. Ignoring the problem won’t make it go away.

6 posted on 09/15/2012 10:17:00 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

They’re (along with our stupid government) are giving money to the very people who are working to remove them and install a caliphate. If they think it’s going to provide infrastructure and jobs to the people they’re living in la la land.

7 posted on 09/15/2012 10:24:52 PM PDT by bronxville (Margaret Sanger - “We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population,)
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To: Olog-hai

Many Western leaders have succumbed to the idea of submission to the islamik califate.

Notice the women of the British Royal Family wearing muslim header instead of the simple hat.

The U.K. was saved from invasion by Germany in WWII by us, only to be lost to invasion by islam.

The citizenry of European nations will undoubtedly experience incredible pain and suffering under the heel of the mooslimbs.

There certainly is a world war brewing.

If America simply squashed islam like a bug right now it all could be avoided.

8 posted on 09/15/2012 10:27:19 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves.)
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To: Olog-hai

Let’s all imagine a world where sanity reigns.
Can’t do it, can ya?

It’s almost 5773 and we are still trying to tame barbarians.

9 posted on 09/15/2012 10:29:42 PM PDT by MestaMachine (obama kills and bo stinks)
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To: MestaMachine

I can imagine such a world, but it ain’t ruled by humans.

10 posted on 09/15/2012 10:30:27 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

We are between the proverbial rock and the hard spot.

We can’t leave.

We really shouldn’t stay.

No good answer.

11 posted on 09/15/2012 10:32:50 PM PDT by berdie
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To: Olog-hai

Sounds exactly like what Chamberlain said when he met Hitler; here’s a guy we can deal with.

How did that work out for you, Europe?

12 posted on 09/15/2012 10:35:42 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: Olog-hai

hahhahahah. Rioting and killing for dollars..isnt that the way the Palestinians do it.

13 posted on 09/15/2012 10:36:23 PM PDT by dalebert
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To: Olog-hai
...consolidating Egypt's transition to democracy...

Thanks, you guys. Ya'll just keep on giving us money like you have for almost forty years or so and we'll eventually get there.
/laughing all the way to the bank Egyptian

14 posted on 09/15/2012 10:37:07 PM PDT by philman_36 (Pride breakfasted with plenty, dined with poverty, and supped with infamy. Benjamin Franklin)
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To: berdie

Re “No good answer”. Ripley and Michael Biehn gave a great answer in “Aliens”, roughly to the tune of “let’s get off this planet and nuke them from space.”

I approve of this answer. MadMax

15 posted on 09/15/2012 10:38:04 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: Olog-hai

Kill us last, kill us last!!

16 posted on 09/15/2012 10:39:40 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass.)
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To: PieterCasparzen

There’s a strong backlash against Islam going on in Europe that the media isn’t reporting on much.

17 posted on 09/15/2012 10:42:05 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper

If we had a specific target...perhaps.

But we don’t. There are forces within every country, friendly and not so friendly. So who do you nuke?

18 posted on 09/15/2012 10:46:37 PM PDT by berdie
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To: PieterCasparzen

I agree with 99% of your post.

As far as wearing muslim head gear in their country... I have no problem.

And when they come here, they should abide by our customs.


19 posted on 09/15/2012 10:58:21 PM PDT by berdie
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To: Olog-hai

More like danegeld.

20 posted on 09/15/2012 11:10:59 PM PDT by Spktyr (Overwhelmingly superior firepower and the willingness to use it is the only proven peace solution.)
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To: Olog-hai

There is going to be blood in Europe. Seas and messes of it. The “elites” funding the coming nightmare think they won’t be touched. They couldn’t be more wrong.

And we won’t be in a position to save them again. We’ll be too busy with our own problems.

21 posted on 09/15/2012 11:11:15 PM PDT by piytar (The predator-class is furious that their prey are shooting back.)
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To: PieterCasparzen

For some reason I get the strange feeling that in the long run nothing good ever came from either socialism and its many variations and (i)slam.

22 posted on 09/16/2012 1:03:50 AM PDT by saintgermaine
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To: MestaMachine

Don’t give up hope yet, as to my knowledge the Gods of our ancient past came to our rescue twice, once during the Deluge and more recently what became known as the Exodus. Quite possible if things get dicey and the existence of their favorite people is at stake they just may intervene once more. Would be a shame to see their human experiment fail.

23 posted on 09/16/2012 1:14:46 AM PDT by saintgermaine
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To: saintgermaine

There are many things I wish I could say in reply to your post, but it would take volumes. Suffice it to say you don’t know how close to right you are. Or maybe you do.

24 posted on 09/16/2012 2:09:39 AM PDT by MestaMachine (obama kills and bo stinks)
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To: saintgermaine

Well first of all there is one God, the God of the Bible.

The story of the Plymouth Pilgrims is an easily recommended story in the regard of adversity and the founding of America. To understand them, one has to go back and study John Calvin, John Knox, etc., i.e., the Reformation. I heartily recommend studying William of Ockham as well, he dates back to the 1300’s.

Understanding the motivations and society of America in the 1600’s and early 1700’s requires an understanding of the Reformation, i.e., European history in the preceding several hundred years as well as the much closer-to-true understanding of Scripture that the Reformers arrived at, which hearkened back to the Apostolic age. America at the time of it’s founding did not exist in a “secular vaccuum” as we are taught today. Quite the opposite, every part of society and it’s norms was rooted in Christianity, including culture, the law, business, politics and education. The Bible was a part of every child’s education, and in frontier homes, if they owned but one book, it was almost always a Bible.

The Reformers (who preceded the Plymouth Pilgrims) were simply questioning what they saw as practices in the Church that logically were contrary to the Bible and original Christian doctrine. After all, that’s what the Christian faith is based on, they reasoned; if we’ve departed from it and made up something ourselves (which the Bible expressley admonishes the believer not to do), then what are we doing, really ? It was precisely because the common man was not taught Biblical doctrine directly in that pre-printing era, that the Church had strayed in so many ways. The common man simply had to accept whatever the clergy said for their doctrine, as they could not study the Bible in their local language. In what can only be described as an act of Providence, the printing press was invented right around this time. Though the Church leadership feared that giving everyone their own copy of the Bible in their own language would be the end of the Church, instead, the Reformation wound up resulting in the Bible becoming the most printed book of all time, Christianity being strengthened worldwide and, of course, becoming the moral foundation for America.

Part of Christian doctrine is that Christ is reigning now in heaven, and also that Christ is and will be victorious.

It makes sense: if God created the heavens and the earth then he would have complete sovereign power over it. He revealed himself through prophets to the ancient Israelites. All Jews, up to and including the first Christians, always testified to the truth of the Old Testament (root word, testimony). If we say that it is not true, we are implying that everyone before us is either wildly mistaken or a liar, which starts to make very little sense if you read it and have a good text or teacher explaining all the cross references it contains and a lot of the meanings it conveys. Also, given the fact that millions of people accepted all those Old Testament stories as 100% true facts - over thousands of years - and it was commonly known by heart and transmitted down through the generations extremely accurately, the idea of people lying or being misled about it’s veracity is quite far-fetched.

The Bible tells us that all happens according to God’s will; he is the author of history, existing independent of the time we experience. The true believer is not promised that they will not see trials and tribulations along the way, neither are they promised that things will go the way we want them to. But from a human perspective, even though the movement of every atom of the universe is in motion and this motion is according to physics, so we theoretically could predict the future, even something simple like predicting tomorrows rainfall would require far too much information for us to acquire and analyze. Like a passenger on a sinking ship knows the ship will go down, we know that we will die. But our lack of knowledge of the details of the future present us only with the same rational alternative of the passenger: to try our best. We don’t know if tomorrow something will fall on us and kill us, or we will experience some wonderful turn of events that makes us very happy for many years to come.

25 posted on 09/16/2012 2:26:24 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves.)
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To: saintgermaine
By “Gods” did you mean to literally translate the Hebrew word Elohim (אֱלֹהִ֔ים), or did you mean something else?
26 posted on 09/16/2012 9:01:14 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: PieterCasparzen

The Bible tells us that all happens according to God’s will
No, the Bible says nothing of the kind. It says that God’s will shall prevail, especially over the will of all other beings. I am hoping that is what you meant instead of the pagan concept of fate, which negates free will and dictates that even the most heinous of acts and most frightening of tragedies cannot be avoided.
27 posted on 09/16/2012 9:06:42 AM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Hypothetical question:

Suppose tomorrow I’m out in a rainstorm, putting the garbage out, and I get struck by lightning.

Q:) Is this God’s will, or a “random event” ?

A:) The storm is brewing up today, temperatures, pressures, winds, etc., i.e., every molecule in the air is moving according to the laws of physics. It appears to be “random” because we do not have anywhere near enough capacity to collect and analyze a good enough snapshot of data, then “roll forward” the data to tomorrow and know that a lightning strike will happen at a certain moment in a certain place. We have limited ability to predict weather using this very technique, but it’s not anywhere near this detailed. Nevertheless, what ever will happen tomorrow at a certain time tomorrow is completely dependent on the entire state of the universe as of now, since the motion of every atom us not indeterminate or what we think of as random, but each state is determined by what the prior state was. Atoms don’t simply materialize out of nowhere or move with no rhyme or reason, clouds don’t form out of nothing. Scary thought, but true. I can only suppose that God, having created heaven and earth, has sovereign control over it, even our thoughts and feelings. If some angry person is going to have road rage tomorrow and he’ll be driving right behind me - God knows this. Obviously all this represents a quantity of information that is unfathomable. The Bible tells us that God is all-powerful, and is the Creator, and is all-knowing. Nowhere in the Bible is it written that God must “wait to see” how things turn out. Nowhere is it written that God has to wait and see what a person does on a certain day in order for God to proceed with his plans after the person makes their decision on that day; God forbid.

The concept of free will is entirely true from our human perspective. Like a passenger on a sinking ship, not knowing the future days and hours, we can only think and act as we see fit; we obviously think using our minds. The ship’s crew simply says the ship is sinking, and gives instructions as to manning the lifeboats. Even if we sit there like a blob in the water and cry, thinking we are doomed - we’ve still made a choice, the choice to do nothing but cry. We have a choice from our point of view. But we do not know what will happen an hour from that point. A shark may arrive in an hour and gobble us up, or a ship may arrive in an hour and rescue us. Either way, we can not change the future - and either way, the ship or the shark is on it’s way, since they don’t simply materialize out of nothing. But certainly God created heaven and earth. If we think for a moment about the magnitude of that concept - they were created according to God’s specification. Formation of the entire planet earth, and setting it in orbit around the Sun, to begin with - that means God has, with an unimaginable power, set everything in motion according to his will. God has revealed himself to us in his Word, the Holy Scriptures, so every man is without excuse; like the passenger on the sinking ship, we certainly could follow instructions and have hope, not knowing if we will live another 10 minutes or another 100 years, but simply manning the lifeboats as instructed will do if we have any sense. Of course, for Christian faith, this is where the Holy Spirit comes in. According to Scripture, since all people are born into sin, our minds, spirits and hearts will reject God; God’s Holy Spirit is what causes the believer to believe.

Q:) Is this against God’s will ? That is to say, did God desire that it not happen, yet God was unable to prevent it ?

A:) Since God is all-powerful, if he wants something to happen, it does. If he does not want something to happen, it does not. We can only surmise from reading God’s Word that everything that happens does not happen contrary to God’s will. Can we discern to what degree God desires something to happen ? Only insofar as Scripture reveals such things, and by no means does Scripture fully detail the mind of God. To the contrary, we are told that we can not fully know the mind of God (see the verses below). Our own life and death is, of course, an important issue to us personally (”What is man, that thou art mindful of him”). However, Scripture refers numerous times to the fact that God does not only control “big” life-and-death events, but that he is ultimately powerful, and, as Creator, completely controls his Creation.

Q:) Is there something I can do to prevent that from happening ?

A:) No, the Bible never says that any human being has the power to change what God has willed, whether he desires this thing to happen or simply permits it to happen. The good king Hezekiah asked God to prolong his life; God granted him 15 more years of life. But we must note that Hezekiah did not force this outcome, but he prayed and wept and asked God to not end his life immediately.

Some references and commentary to support these answers to the hypothetical question...

Job and Ecclesiastes, as well as Psalms and Proverbs are well worth reviewing when studying Providence. Much of the Bible provides doctrine regarding the simple truth of God’s sovereignty and power over us and all of his creation, while also exhorting us to both faith and obedience.

Job Chapter 38

“1 Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof ?
21 Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?
22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
24 By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?
25 Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;
26 To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;
27 To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?
28 Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?
29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
34 Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?
35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go and say unto thee, Here we are?
36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?
37 Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,
38 When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?
39 Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions,
40 When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait?
41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.”

American culture is one of strong individuality and independence, which are fine attributes in and of themselves. But we must be careful to not take our human American experience and feelings and allow them to make us arrogant and boastful to the point of thinking that we are not ultimately dependent upon God for every breath we take, let alone whether we prosper or starve, are safe or defeated. The ancient Israelites were told to throw away the manna from heaven nightly; this was an acknowledgement that they were indeed relying on God to provide manna the next day. Matthew Chapter 6 records how our Lord Jesus Christ speaks to us, telling us of what God desires from his children, the fact that our technology and understanding are limited where God’s are not, and revealing the magnitude of God’s glory, power and mercy and how he is concerned for all things great and small:

Matthew 6:

“26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.”


28 posted on 09/16/2012 8:39:48 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves.)
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To: PieterCasparzen
Don’t forget this one:
I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

— Ecclesiastes 9:11
The Hebrew word pega is correctly translated “chance” here. The word eth (translated “time” here) can also mean “opportunity”. And this book is attributed to Solomon.

Not to mention, the devil has his own will:
Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.

— 1 Thessalonians 2:18

29 posted on 09/17/2012 3:53:28 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai
Ecclesiastes is excellent for studying this topic and numerous others.

Of course we need to review the whole thing to understand verses within context.

The opening of Chapter 9 is in the voice of "the preacher", speaking to the listener:

"For all this I considered in my heart even to declare all this, that the righteous, and the wise, and their works, are in the hand of God: no man knoweth either love or hatred by all that is before them."

I found the commentary of M. Henry helpful in contemplating the message of verse 1:

"though good and evil seem to be dispensed promiscuously, yet God has a particular care of and concern for his own people: The righteous and the wise, and their works, are in the hand of God, under his special protection and guidance; all their affairs are managed by him for their good; all their wise and righteous actions are in his hand, to be recompensed in the other world, though not in this. They seem as if they were given up into the hand of their enemies, but it is not so. Men have no power against them but what is given them from above. The events that affect them do not come to pass by chance, but all according to the will and counsel of God, which will turn that to be for them which seemed to be most against them. Let this make us easy, whatever happens, that all God’s saints are in his hand"

Verse 1 indicates that though we may or may not realize it, all is in God's hands.

Chapters 10 and 11 have an incredible amount of doctrinal signifance in them which is both informative and comforting.

It's not until verse 11:5 that we see a direct reference to God again.

"1 Cast thy bread upon the waters: for thou shalt find it after many days.
2 Give a portion to seven, and also to eight; for thou knowest not what evil shall be upon the earth.
3 If the clouds be full of rain, they empty themselves upon the earth: and if the tree fall toward the south, or toward the north, in the place where the tree falleth, there it shall be.
4 He that observeth the wind shall not sow; and he that regardeth the clouds shall not reap.
5 As thou knowest not what is the way of the spirit, nor how the bones do grow in the womb of her that is with child: even so thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all.
6 In the morning sow thy seed, and in the evening withhold not thine hand: for thou knowest not whether shall prosper, either this or that, or whether they both shall be alike good.

Clearly verse 5 implies that for all the good things we obediently try to accomplish, though we do not know specifically what their end result is, during all of our efforts in this life, God is working all things according to his sovereign will. The help given to one person may be used by God in various ways and have other indirect effects that the original giver is never aware of, "thou knowest not the works of God who maketh all". Of course, regardless of our joy or pain in this life, the true believer's reward is beyond the grave. The wicked, after death, have only to look forward to what is described back in verses of Chapter 9, like verse 9:5.

So if we consider Chapters 9-11 altogether, we find that the "chance" spoken of in 9:11 is indeed from the human perspective. Men certainly do not have very much information about the future. However there is no indication anywhere in the Bible that history unfolds as "random events" from God's perspective.

I wholeheartedly recommend M. Henry's expostion on Ecclesiastes.
30 posted on 09/17/2012 8:54:53 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves.)
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