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Is Egypt Ungovernable?
The Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs ^ | 9/13/2012 | David "Spengler" Goldman

Posted on 09/16/2012 12:08:00 AM PDT by mojito

...Washington has done everything possible to reach out to the Muslim Brotherhood. It called loudly for Hosni Mubarak's resignation when protests erupted in early 2011. It invited Brotherhood representatives to the White House last April, before Egypt's presidential elections. It backed Morsi's August 12 cold coup against the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces and the firing of Gen. Tantawi and the old guard of the Egyptian military, and embraced Tantawi's successor Gen. El-Sisi, a Brotherhood member.

The White House said nothing when Morsi traveled to Iran in late August, breaking Iran's diplomatic isolation, believing (as the Council on Foreign Relations' Steven Cook put it) that Morsi would be a "better interlocutor" between Washington and Tehran. And it offered $1 billion of American aid, in the form of loan forgiveness and new credits, as well as backing for a $4.8 billion loan from the International Monetary Fund. Secretary Clinton Sept. 13 bent over backwards to placate Islamist sentiment, calling the YouTube video "disgusting and reprehensible."

Indeed, the Obama administration is so deeply invested in the notion that the Muslim Brotherhood embodies the future of Islamic democracy that the imagination strains to identify a circumstance that might persuade the White House to abandon its support for the new Egyptian regime.

(Excerpt) Read more at jinsa.org ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: egypt; morsi; muslimbrotherhood; obama; spengler
This essay, which focuses of Egypt's desperate economic straights, is well worth reading for some deep background on the current situation.
1 posted on 09/16/2012 12:08:05 AM PDT by mojito
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To: mojito

Ungovernable?

I think the government is Egypt is doing exactly what its citizens want.


2 posted on 09/16/2012 12:15:22 AM PDT by Tzimisce (THIS SUCKS)
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To: Tzimisce
Ungovernable in the sense that Egypt has no chance of being a functioning society:

“After 60 years of feckless military rule, Egypt's economy simply can't get there from here. The country imports half its caloric consumption, although three-fifths of its people are engaged in agriculture. Its university system can't train a competent civil engineer (President Morsi, like almost all of Egypt's prominent engineers, studied abroad). Forty-five percent of its people are functionally illiterate. Nine-tenths of its women suffer genital mutilation, and nearly a third of Egyptians marry cousins.”

Sounds like another Islamic success story.

3 posted on 09/16/2012 12:21:35 AM PDT by mojito
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To: mojito

This makes no sense, Egypt is being governed exactly as it is intended to be governed, these are islamist after all.


4 posted on 09/16/2012 12:21:52 AM PDT by svcw (If one living cell on another planet is life, why isn't it life in the womb?)
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To: mojito

Winston says it all in this quote made more than a century ago.

“How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.

The effects are apparent in many countries. Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.

A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity. The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.

Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the infence of the religion paralyzes the social development of those who follow it.

No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith.

It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome.”

Sir Winston Churchill (The River War, first edition, Vol. II, pages 248-50, London: Longmans, Green & Co., 1899).


5 posted on 09/16/2012 12:22:18 AM PDT by Bobalu (It is not obama we are fighting, it is the media.)
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To: mojito
Rome seemed to govern it quite well. Before that, the egyptian guys that built the pyramids seemed to manage.

/johnny

6 posted on 09/16/2012 12:24:50 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: mojito
Egypt has no chance of being a functioning society:

If you have a whip, a kitten can pull a plow.

Egypt is in for a hard time, they will live or they will die.

/johnny

7 posted on 09/16/2012 12:27:48 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Gone Galt)
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To: mojito

BTTT


8 posted on 09/16/2012 12:28:33 AM PDT by dixiechick2000 (~~~RAGE ~~~ I haz it. I'm anticipating seeing November from my house.)
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To: mojito

The economic collapse under these incompetent Islamic governments will enrage the mob. The new leaders will focus the rage of the mob on the usual suspects (Israel and America-West). These nations are going into perpetual riot because they have pretty much destroyed their credit and they are burning up their cash reserves. The behavior we are witnessing now will make it far more difficult for them to obtain “loans” from the world. There is no investment in these nations either foreign or domestic. There is not enough remaining economic activity in the majority of these nations to provide enough revenue for the governments to fund the welfare of the citizens.

They are on borrowed time and know it - this is why war is coming. I really don’t see how it will be avoided. Egypt is in really bad shape right now and the Muslim Brotherhood miscalculated by winning the election. It’s easier to critique from outside the government than it is to be responsible. Our betrayal of the Egyptian military was just as stupid and wrong as our betrayal of the previous regime. The previous regime locked up more jihad johnnies each year than we kill. Those radical inmates have been released into Egyptian society like a bucket of flaming kerosene. Obama built this and betrayed an imperfect man who had kept peace in the most populous Muslim nation and honored his treaties.


9 posted on 09/16/2012 12:30:41 AM PDT by volunbeer (Don't worry America, our kids will pay for it!)
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To: svcw

IMHO, it needs another “rinse cycle”.


10 posted on 09/16/2012 12:33:01 AM PDT by sheik yerbouty ( Make America and the world a jihad free zone!)
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To: mojito

From the article....

“Even Islamists have to eat. Some senior Israeli policy analysts believe that Morsi will do everything possible to distract the Egyptian people from the growing misery of their material circumstances. Morsi may attempt to justify an Egyptian annexation of oil-rich Libya, and might fight Sudan for control of the Nile’s limited water supply. And he may encourage Islamist extremists to vent their frustrations against the United States.”

I’m beginning to wonder whether the protests were planned and staged by Morsi to:

1. distract the population from their misery
2. deflect criticism of himself and the brothers to the US and the west
3. blackmail the US and the west into giving him more foreign aid

My guess is we’re being played like fools.


11 posted on 09/16/2012 12:35:45 AM PDT by aquila48
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To: volunbeer

If you want free food and oil then you will have to join the DNC Brotherhood or starve.


12 posted on 09/16/2012 12:39:32 AM PDT by Domangart
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To: mojito

An amazing article on scanning - will read it properly tomorrow. Thank you for posting it.


13 posted on 09/16/2012 12:43:48 AM PDT by bronxville (Margaret Sanger - “We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population,)
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To: Domangart

If you want free food and oil then you will have to join the DNC Brotherhood or starve.


Yep. Morsi is not too smart though... he is finding out that leading and governing is far more difficult than agitating. He made his career on tearing down the man who now faces him in the mirror.


14 posted on 09/16/2012 12:59:03 AM PDT by volunbeer (Don't worry America, our kids will pay for it!)
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To: mojito

Well, Mubarek seemed able to govern it. Until, of course he was undermined by his “allies”.


15 posted on 09/16/2012 1:10:01 AM PDT by I still care (I miss my friends, bagels, and the NYC skyline - but not the taxes. I love the South.)
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To: volunbeer
he is finding out that leading and governing is far more difficult than agitating.

Now why does that sound familiar??

16 posted on 09/16/2012 1:14:42 AM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: mojito
No, they're easily governed.

Throw a couple of billion their way.

They'll burn our embassy when they're ready for a couple of billion more.

17 posted on 09/16/2012 2:26:56 AM PDT by rawcatslyentist (I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a Barack 0b0tt0my!)
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To: mojito

The mid-east Muslims have virtually all proven they’re incapable of governing themselves. They’re too stupid to govern themselves but still dangerous because any lunatic idiot. can set off a bomb. Forty-five percetn illiteracy and 1/3 marrying their cousins says it all about their intelligence. These countries should be cordoned and no one allowed to leave except Coptic Christians and the like.


18 posted on 09/16/2012 3:08:26 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: Bobalu

Not every Muslim is a violent idiot, but Islam appeals to the stupidest most violent peoples of the world.


19 posted on 09/16/2012 3:10:25 AM PDT by driftless2
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To: mojito
It is exactly as intended. ....They used ‘democracy’ and voted for this, this leadership of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Now the ‘west’ must decide if they will be ally or foe to a terrorist state.

We had the same issue when the Palestinians chose Hamas.

You see, this is why I reject the ‘extremist’ lie from our government. This is why I reject the statements that these factions are uncontrolled. These foot soldiers, these islamic militias are extensions of the islamic government.

20 posted on 09/16/2012 3:33:13 AM PDT by EBH (0bama is guilty of willful neglect of duty.)
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To: mojito

IMO, the radical Islamist believe they are on a personal mission from their god. They cannot be appeased by the west they must be killed.


21 posted on 09/16/2012 3:56:09 AM PDT by duckman (Dr Ben Carlson: Vision Not Division.)
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To: mojito

“Is Egypt Ungovernable?”

No. Just Obama.


22 posted on 09/16/2012 3:56:30 AM PDT by lowbridge (Joe Biden: "Look, the Taliban per se is not our enemy.")
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To: mojito

Wherever islam goes, death, destruction and poverty follows.


23 posted on 09/16/2012 4:05:02 AM PDT by newfreep (Breitbart sent me...)
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To: Tzimisce
I could advance this a step further and say that there really is no Egypt left, just dysfunction turning into chaos. It was very gradual, and began with the Napoleonic conquest of Egypt, and the establishment of the Muhammad Ali Dynasty. "Muhammad Ali was an Albanian commander of the Ottoman army that was sent to drive Napoleon's forces out of Egypt, but upon the French withdrawal, seized power himself and forced the Ottoman Sultan Mahmud II to recognize him as Wāli, or Governor of Egypt in 1805. Muhammad Ali transformed Egypt into a regional power which he saw as the natural successor to the decaying Ottoman Empire." However, he tried to overthrow the Ottoman Empire by conquering Constantinople (renamed Istanbul in 1930), but was thwarted by the European Great Powers, which limited the kingdom to North Africa. In turn, the Muhammed Ali dynasty was overthrown in 1952 by Gamal Nasser. Financed by the Soviet Union, he embarked on a campaign of modernization and socialism. (In perspective, even socialism was better than what they had before.) After launching some stupid and expensive wars against Israel, Nassar's debt to the Soviet Union was so great he left their sphere to escape it, and that was the end of Egyptian modernization and secular socialism. His replacement, Sadat, couldn't keep the ball rolling to development very long, realizing their economy was going downhill fast, so made at least temporary peace with Israel more to reduce expenses. This outrages the growing MB movement, a splinter group of which then assassinated him. His replacement, Mubarak, was the chief of secret police, and knowing only how to be a cop, let the economy go to hell in a hand basket. He tried to keep a lid on the MB, and got a lot of military aid from the US for Sadat's peace treaty, but kept power far too long, which destroyed any chance for continued secular government. In all fairness, the only real potential governments left in Egypt are either the military or the MB, and the military doesn't really want the job. So the MB gets the honors of captaining the Titanic for the last 15 minutes of the voyage. The end result will be a collapse of business, national bankruptcy with deep debt, 80 million starving people, and probably bloody civil war until they come up with somebody strong enough to take the reigns of power again. The Islamists could really get the ball rolling by purging all the military leaders, so that the military will no longer be able to intervene to prevent the inevitable collapse.
24 posted on 09/16/2012 4:19:47 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (DIY Bumper Sticker: "THREE TIMES,/ DEMOCRATS/ REJECTED GOD")
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To: volunbeer; mojito

The economic collapse under these incompetent Islamic governments will enrage the mob. The new leaders will focus the rage of the mob on the usual suspects (Israel and America-West). These nations are going into perpetual riot because they have pretty much destroyed their credit and they are burning up their cash reserves.


I truly hate to say it, but some of this also applies to the United States. Our own leadership will be needing to focus our rage and what better way to do it than focus it outside of the Country.

The worse thing I have found throughout history is that the political leadership rarely pay personally for the death and destruction they have caused through their misguided philosophies and actions.


25 posted on 09/16/2012 5:28:19 AM PDT by The Working Man
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To: mojito
Is Egypt Ungovernable?

Let's hope so

Massive turmoil would be a good thing
26 posted on 09/16/2012 6:14:13 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: duckman
IMO, the radical Islamist believe they are on a personal mission from their god. They cannot be appeased by the west they must be killed.

911 proved that
27 posted on 09/16/2012 6:24:54 AM PDT by uncbob
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To: mojito

I hate to say it but no moslem nation can be properly governed without a STRONG DICTATOR who is more interested in power than religion.

So-called “democratic” moslem nations will always vote for religious mullahs over a non secular government.


28 posted on 09/16/2012 7:52:55 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: JRandomFreeper; mojito
"Friend" Mubarak and the Army were doing as adequate a job of running this foul nest of Worthy Oriental Gentlemen as is possible. The Mombasa MF got an intrarectal bug and decided to back the "Arab Spring" all across the North Africa and the ME. al Quaida, The Muslim Brotherhood, The Taliban are not at odds. They have combined to make an absolute fool of our pseudo-POTUS and with it, our country. He's pulling the same crap in Syria. Bush is almost as guilty in his overthrow of Saddam Hussein because there was no coherent follow-on plan. Islam and Democracy as we know it are simply incompatible. Islam and Western Christian civilization as we know it are incompatible. What? You think our ancestors were stupid when they divided the world into Christendom over here and Islam over there?

Try and remember that Kid Kenya backed Raila Odinga in Kenya. Bottom Line: Odinga lost fair and square and started massacring Christians. If Mormon Milquetoast Mitt had the procreative tackle God gave a moth, he would be ripping the Marxist Community Organizer a new one every day on that record alone.

Obama is not equipped with the American Patriot Playbook. Mitt is trying to ease into the WH on economics alone. It's not enough. Get tough, Mitt. Or we are going to get this SOB back.

Only 30% of the electorate can understand Republican policies. Last I checked, one needs 51% to win the national elections ... and in the right places.

29 posted on 09/16/2012 3:04:26 PM PDT by Kenny Bunk (Obama = Allende.)
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To: mojito

And yet Egypt was the granary of the entire Roman Empire and was rich for 3700 years until Islam came...


30 posted on 09/17/2012 2:31:07 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: volunbeer
The new leaders will focus the rage of the mob on the usual suspects (Israel and America-West).

And the ones who will get it will be the Christian Copts in Egypt...

31 posted on 09/17/2012 2:32:02 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: driftless2

well, actually, Islam was spread by the sword to most countries except Indonesia and Malaysia.


32 posted on 09/17/2012 3:57:03 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: Cronos

Very true. But what has that to do with my argument that it appeals to the stupidest and most violent members of world’s population?


33 posted on 09/17/2012 4:08:09 AM PDT by driftless2
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