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African-American Christians waver over vote
ap/yahoo ^ | 9/16/12 | Rachell Zoll

Posted on 09/16/2012 1:39:22 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper

Some black clergy see no good presidential choice between a Mormon candidate and one who supports gay marriage, so they are telling their flocks to stay home on Election Day. That's a worrisome message for the nation's first African-American president, who can't afford to lose any voters from his base in a tight race.

The pastors say their congregants are asking how a true Christian could back same-sex marriage, as President Barack Obama did in May. As for Republican Mitt Romney, the first Mormon nominee from a major party, congregants are questioning the theology of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and its former ban on men of African descent in the priesthood.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2012; bho2012; blackchurch; blackvote; christianvote
Gee, let's hear the media rip these blacks for being bigots....

Come on, let's hear it, media.

Let's see the Pink Mafia start attack blacks for being bigoted, too....you know, like they did to Chick-Fil-A.

1 posted on 09/16/2012 1:39:25 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: SoFloFreeper

Whatever. Blacks, christian or not, will vote Obama and just as much as 2008. Probably the only group who will support him as much as last time.

Black Christians support Dems who want gay marriage and abortion on demand all of the time.


2 posted on 09/16/2012 1:42:57 PM PDT by snarkytart
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To: SoFloFreeper

“Gee, let’s hear the media rip these blacks for being bigots.... “

I can hear the deafening silence all the way here in Afghanistan.

The only useful purpose of holding ones breath is to aid in the elimination of hick-ups.


3 posted on 09/16/2012 1:43:34 PM PDT by Puckster
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To: SoFloFreeper

Its bullshite.They will vote enmasse for the one.Race trumps it all with the majority of blacks.Just watch.


4 posted on 09/16/2012 1:49:08 PM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life's tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: SoFloFreeper

Obama supports gay marriage and taxpayer funded abortion on demand up to birth.

Romney opposes both.

There is no way for a self proclaimed “christian” to justify voting for Obama.


5 posted on 09/16/2012 1:51:02 PM PDT by MNJohnnie (Giving more money to DC to fix the Debt is like giving free drugs to addicts think it will cure them)
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To: SoFloFreeper

In a fifty-fifty country, it only takes a handful to make the difference.

I dare say no one who voted against Obama last election will change their minds and vote for him.

But there are some Obama-voters in each demographic who have said they won’t vote for him again.

That means big trouble for the obamists and it means America has one last chance.


6 posted on 09/16/2012 1:52:36 PM PDT by marron
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To: marron
I dare say no one who voted against Obama last election will change their minds and vote for him.

I can think of only one person: Meghan McCain. :)

7 posted on 09/16/2012 1:56:51 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: SoFloFreeper

Isn’t this RACIST? I thought if you voted against Orumpo, for any reason, it is a racist act.. Everyone says so, I know I’ve read that somewhere, as a matter of fact, I’ve both heard and read that EVERYWHERE.. Really!


8 posted on 09/16/2012 2:00:35 PM PDT by carlo3b (Less Government, more Fiber..)
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To: snarkytart
"Whatever. Blacks, christian or not, will vote Obama and just as much as 2008. Probably the only group who will support him as much as last time. Black Christians support Dems who want gay marriage and abortion on demand all of the time.

EXACTLY and without a doubt. With most "black Christians" it's the "black" that comes first.
9 posted on 09/16/2012 2:00:37 PM PDT by 762X51
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To: snarkytart

If a voter were actually sorry for his traitorous act of voting for Barry in 2008, he will never trust hmself to soil a polling place again. That will be a benefit to this nation; there’s no need, as some have suggested, for the traitor to eat a bullet in contrition.


10 posted on 09/16/2012 2:08:25 PM PDT by Carl Vehse
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To: SoFloFreeper

White pastors would have their tax free status threatened for telling their parishioners how to vote.


11 posted on 09/16/2012 2:10:00 PM PDT by Wage Slave (Army Mom!)
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To: SoFloFreeper

It’s too bad they even have to think about it. It is not a hard choice.


12 posted on 09/16/2012 2:12:15 PM PDT by Hero
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To: SoFloFreeper

Let’s see, on the one hand, Obama supports abortion and the destruction of marriage, has created massive poverty and unemployment, and snubs our friends in the world while encouraging our enemies. On the other hand, he’s black.

That’s a tough one.


13 posted on 09/16/2012 2:13:55 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Whatever a homosexual union might be or represent, it is not physically marital. - F.Cardinal George)
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To: SoFloFreeper; greyfoxx39; colorcountry; Colofornian; ejonesie22; Elsie; Godzilla; MHGinTN; ...
Their skin is quite black, their hair woolly and black, their intelligence stunted, and they appear never to have arisen from the most savage state of barbarism.– Official LDS Church manual, The Juvenile Instructor, Vol. 3, page 157

And it came to pass that I beheld, after they had dwindled in unbelief they became a dark and loathsome, and a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations. – Book of Mormon, 1 Nephi 12:23)

And the Lord had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them. – Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 5:21

Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so. – President Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, 10:110, March 8, 1863

The Mormon Church's past is indeed racist. From its scripture, to its doctrine, to teachings by its top leadership, to its overt treatment of Blacks and American Indians – it is easy find numerous examples of overt racism.

Frankly, given the LDS Church's teachings and blatant, unrepentant record of bigotry, and Bishop Romney's unwavering, unconditional support of this institution, I cannot blame Blacks in the slightest for rejecting his candidacy.

14 posted on 09/16/2012 2:16:14 PM PDT by Zakeet (Calling the Obozo/Bernack economy sluggish is an insult to slugs)
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To: SoFloFreeper

Don’t be ridiculous. She voted for Obama the first time around, too. :P


15 posted on 09/16/2012 2:18:23 PM PDT by Optimus Prime (Do liberals even qualify as sentient beings?)
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To: Jeff Chandler

Has anyone here asked a black BO supporter, “If he wasn’t black, would you still be voting for him?”

For that matter, has anyone asked that of a BO supporter of ANY color?


16 posted on 09/16/2012 2:18:50 PM PDT by thecodont
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To: SoFloFreeper
There are two African-American women I work with who both profess to be Christians.

The will exclaim "Praise Jesus!" and will say "God is good all the time!" openly.

Both of them, however, are big time Obama supporters. One of them used to have an Obama Inauguration plate on her desk, and the other has Obama as her computer wallpaper. When his speeches come on the TV (and believe me, the "Won" is constantly on CNN, MSNBC, etc spewing his rhetoric bile), they turn up the TV so that anyone within 25 feet has to hear it.

The plate on her desk looked just like this one in case anyone is curious.

For both of these women, it is completely obvious that race trumps the Son of Man. I used to wonder how they could reconcile the vile, un-Christian, abortion loving, homosexual flaunting, covetousness, mocker of the Holy Bible that is Barack Hussein Obama.

I have come to the conclusion that they do not even attempt to reconcile the disparity, because the truth is too powerful. They simply live a lie, and tell themselves that their supposed Christianity is totally in-line with the evil that Obama.

17 posted on 09/16/2012 2:20:03 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: snarkytart
You are missing the point of the black vote ~ they became 40% of Democrat voting strength. Without them there is no Democrat party.

In many states they are MORE than 50% of the Democrat vote and control it lock, stock and barrel.

The white liberal geeks and pukes who are kept around to disguise the fact this is a blackman's party are the ones on the abortion kick.

Stenney Hoyer was the first white Democrat member of Congress to literally lose his district to black voters. The top guys over in Prince George's County Maryland told him to find a new home because in the future they would be running a blackman for Congress.

Stenney found a new home.

18 posted on 09/16/2012 2:28:42 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: snarkytart

Those who vote will vote for Obama. They will not show up in the numbers or with the enthusiasm they had last time though. I think they will turnout with 5% - 10% fewer voters. Instead of 94% support he will get something in the eighties.


19 posted on 09/16/2012 2:33:30 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (Where would Christianity be if the early believers put their hopes and trust in the Roman empire?)
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To: HANG THE EXPENSE
Its bullshite.They will vote enmasse for the one.Race trumps it all with the majority of blacks.Just watch.

I'd disagree. If Obama held Romney's positions and was on the GOP ticket, he'd get maybe 5% of the black vote. We've seen this movie before - we've run black GOP candidates against white Democrats and seen blacks vote 9 to 1 for the white Democrat. For blacks, it's always been about pocketbook issues - freebies and race-based affirmative action in education and hiring.

20 posted on 09/16/2012 2:44:54 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: snarkytart
Whatever. Blacks, christian or not, will vote Obama and just as much as 2008. Probably the only group who will support him as much as last time.

You missed the major point of the article. 2008 was the high-water mark of black voter participation, and will likely not be repeated. The author's contention is that many blacks and black Christians have become disenchanted with Obama's anti-Christian and other immoral policies (and I would add a perception among some blacks that Obama is actually a "punk" himself).

While very few blacks will go as far as to vote for Romney, a number will not vote at all this November. What the author predicts is a more typical election turnout among blacks, which - with the exception of 2008's Hope & Change euphoria - is usually low. For Obama, this possibility is catastrophic.

21 posted on 09/16/2012 2:46:22 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: SoFloFreeper; All

This is really bad news for Obama, and good news for conservatives

Church going blacks are way more likely to vote than incarcerated blacks, hip hop/rap blacks, and gang-banger blacks.

Independent voters do not win elections....your base wins elections. Obama’s base stays home, and its back to Kenya for him


22 posted on 09/16/2012 2:46:46 PM PDT by SeminoleCounty (Blaming Terry Jones for the recent Muslim riots is like blaming the St Louis Rams for football)
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To: SkyPilot
For both of these women, it is completely obvious that race trumps the Son of Man. I used to wonder how they could reconcile the vile, un-Christian, abortion loving, homosexual flaunting, covetousness, mocker of the Holy Bible that is Barack Hussein Obama.

Nothing to with race. If you flipped the GOP and Democratic platforms, you'd see blacks voting 9 to 1 for Romney. We've seen this in other races where the black GOP candidate was crushed by a white Democrat. Pocketbook issues are the key, and the only way for the GOP to attract more black votes is to give up economic conservatism, which would mean endorsing the welfare state and racial preferences for blacks.

23 posted on 09/16/2012 2:50:36 PM PDT by Zhang Fei (Let us pray that peace be now restored to the world and that God will preserve it always.)
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To: Zakeet

Academic, at best. Blacks vote for the democrat in overwhelming numbers. The number of black votes Romney could lose because of the LDSinc History is probably insignificant. But trying to gin up a kerfuffle over the issue is worth a few democrat tries don’tchaknow. Why help them?


24 posted on 09/16/2012 2:57:17 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Zakeet

Academic, at best. Blacks vote for the democrat in overwhelming numbers. The number of black votes Romney could lose because of the LDSinc History is probably insignificant. But trying to gin up a kerfuffle over the issue is worth a few democrat tries don’tchaknow. Why help them?


25 posted on 09/16/2012 2:59:10 PM PDT by MHGinTN (Being deceived can be cured.)
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To: Zakeet

http://www.blacklds.org/

Looks to me like the LDS and blacks have had a reconciliation.

Mia Love?

The fact is, a lot of religious movements have had shameful, racist pasts...and rightfully have worked to correct those anti-Christian parts of their culture.

I believe mormons are wrong on their theology, but regarding the race question, it seems they have corrected a historic wrong.


26 posted on 09/16/2012 3:08:14 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: snarkytart

I disagree, I think a relevant minority of them will actually not vote for Obama.

Don’t dismiss the whole group. There are good thinking men and women in there. Many on this board were liberals once. People change. The catalysts vary.

Dennis Miller changed after 9/11. I changed after my conversion to Christianity. Others change when their successful business get assaulted, their kids get bussed, or they are on the receiving end of reverse discrimination.

Allow for the fact that people can and do change.


27 posted on 09/16/2012 3:26:06 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: SoFloFreeper

“I can think of only one person: Meghan McCain. :) “

How about Peggy Noonan? Christopher Buckley?


28 posted on 09/16/2012 3:27:03 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: Zakeet

” I cannot blame Blacks in the slightest for rejecting his candidacy. “

You can’t accept that idea that they have officially and believably left the racist doctrines?

I am no Mormon, but I do believe the change in that area is real.

If we can’t believe an official and public and consistent change, why do we advocate for change? We won’t believe it, anyway.


29 posted on 09/16/2012 3:28:55 PM PDT by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: SoFloFreeper
Martin Luther King Jr, Proud Republican Pictures, Images and Photos "Not Sure, if Martin L. King, Jr. came back to life, do you think he'd walk around in black communities wondering, `How did black folks get to be such dumb s***s?'."
30 posted on 09/16/2012 3:31:30 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives)
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To: SoFloFreeper

Blacks are the only voting group that vote racist. When a black man with ZERO experience to be president gets 95% of the black vote you know qualifications had nothing to do with it. It was all about his skin color and party affiliation. He has to be a democrat. If the race had been between Alan West on the GOP ticket and a white liberal democrat, West would have gotten maybe 30% of the black vote and the liberal white democrat would have gotten 70%. But, never forget that blacks abandoned the better candidate in the primary by the name of Hillary Clinton, to vote for one of their own, QUALIFICATIONS BE DAMNED. Obummer will still get 95% of the black vote again. I don’t care how many black “preachers” come out and say his support of queer marriage was wrong, when they go in the voting booth they will vote for Obummer again. The only blacks that will not vote for him are republicans. By the way Obummer plays blacks for an idiot because he was basically raised by white folks and probably didn’t speak 10 words to a black man till he started college and got in under affirmative action quotas..........so he turned himself into a black man and threw his white side under the bus.


31 posted on 09/16/2012 3:37:39 PM PDT by NKP_Vet
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To: MNJohnnie

“Romney opposes both.”

Oh? Really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xn0GYg1PjUY


32 posted on 09/16/2012 3:37:39 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
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To: Persevero; SoFloFreeper
Looks to me like the LDS and blacks have had a reconciliation.

You can’t accept that idea that they have officially and believably left the racist doctrines? ... I am no Mormon, but I do believe the change in that area is real.

Based on what?

Evidence unequivocally shows that the supposed change is nothing more than another LDS deception aimed at deflecting criticism from the cult.

Is there evidence that proves the Mormon Church has given up their racist practices other than their latest rewriting of the Book of Mormon ... changing the terms white and delightsome to pure and delightsome, and black and loathsome to dark and loathsome? Has the Mormon Church actually repudiated any of their scriptures? Have they recalled any of their racist publications? Have they condemned any of the bigoted teachings of their prophets?

In stark contrast, consider wonderful example set by the Southern Baptist Convention.

The SBC was formed in 1845 when numerous southern churches broke away from their northern counterparts over the question of slavery. 150 years later, the SBC belatedly came to terms with its racist past by enacting a resolution which:

  1. Unwaveringly denounced racism, in all its forms, as a deplorable sin

  2. Lamented and repudiated historic acts of evil such as slavery from which we continue to reap a bitter harvest

  3. Offered an apology to all African-Americans for condoning and/or perpetuating individual and systemic racism

  4. Sought repentance for racism of which we have been guilty, whether consciously or unconsciously

  5. Asked for forgiveness from our African-American brothers and sisters

  6. Pledged to eradicate racism in all its forms from Southern Baptist life and ministry

Imagine the awesome testimony the LDS Church would have if it would adopt and then actively follow a similar position!
33 posted on 09/16/2012 4:43:59 PM PDT by Zakeet (Calling the Obozo/Bernack economy sluggish is an insult to slugs)
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To: SoFloFreeper
Y'all might find this interesting:

Prominent Members of Chicago Black Community: Those closest to Obama know there's no 2nd term

34 posted on 09/16/2012 4:49:17 PM PDT by upchuck (If nobama is reelected and gets to choose more SCOTUS judges, this country is finished.)
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To: Persevero
Thank you!!

The good news we celebrate as Christians is that "change" is possible and necessary.

Why, then, do we treat with such disdain those who may have moved from one set of ideas on some of the most important questions we face, to another set of ideas?

All of us should work to rediscover and publicize the essential ideas of liberty upon which our D of I and Constituiton were framed, convincing others as we go. As people become enlightened about their Creator-endowed rights, they will, of necessity, change their ideas about the role and scope of government.

35 posted on 09/16/2012 5:09:54 PM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: SoFloFreeper

F*** ‘em. They will vote as expected in November, 99%. Debates to the contrary are just wind in sails. Black is black. They can’t help it.


36 posted on 09/16/2012 5:13:21 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (Obama considers the Third World morally superior to the United States.)
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To: MNJohnnie

Obama supports gay marriage and taxpayer funded abortion on demand up to birth.

Romney opposes both.
___________________________________________

Now Johnnie you know that not true...

Willard is the father of same sex marriage...

and in 2005 as MASS gov he signed the marriage licenses for 189 gay couples...

and as for abortion Willard has been abortion king for 40 years...

abortion-on-demand and against the wishes of the parenrs of the underaged pregnant girls...


37 posted on 09/16/2012 5:13:26 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: SoFloFreeper

“Some black clergy see no good presidential choice between a Mormon candidate and one who supports gay marriage”

Glad to see that my Black brothers in Christ see things as I do. I don’t see any REAL choice between a Mormon in Romney and a liberal homophile (and worse) in Obama. Both are unsavory choices.

Because a potential four more years of Obama is so horrific, I have been tempted to forego my basic beliefs and vote for the Mormon. However, good sense to put a solid known (my beliefs) first, ahead of a fearful sellout of them is keeping my from supporting Romney. I will not vote for him. However, since Jim Rob stopped taking the hard line against Romney, I have not been saying that very frequently here on FR. It just isn’t appreaciated here...and I understand how the forum is lead by their fears. It is just that I fear a Mormon POTUS (especially one that is a closet liberal) as much as the current POTUS. It is a no win scenario in my thinking. I’m voting for conservatives down ticket, but not touching voting in the POTUS race....ballot will be left blank. I may vote for a third party candidate. However, I cannot find one that isn’t also badly flawed in some way.


38 posted on 09/16/2012 5:37:04 PM PDT by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: SkyPilot

“For both of these women, it is completely obvious that race trumps the Son of Man.”

I have witnessed this also in otherwise “Godly” Christian black ladies. It troubles me. However, it equally troubles me that Conservative Evangelical men would vote for a Cultist like Romney (and a real liberal as well). They know that not only is he not Christian, but a false representation of it.


39 posted on 09/16/2012 5:41:22 PM PDT by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: Zhang Fei

The difference is the black conservative candidates are in the congress while the one is president.They will vote for him just like last time but maybe only once in the states that passed voter id.


40 posted on 09/16/2012 5:50:13 PM PDT by HANG THE EXPENSE (Life's tough.It's tougher when you're stupid.)
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To: MNJohnnie
There is no way for a self proclaimed “christian” to justify voting for Obama. EITHER of them!
41 posted on 09/16/2012 6:32:53 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Zakeet

Did you go and peruse that site to which I linked? That is my basis for believing there has been reconciliation.

If there had been no reconciliation, how do you explain the existence of Mia Love, et al?

Let’s cut the crap. Mormons don’t hate blacks.


42 posted on 09/16/2012 7:02:39 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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To: NKP_Vet

Obamugabe got 94% of the black vote, the same as Jimmy Carter in 1980.

I think blacks vote 90% or more Democrat out of habit. What changed in 2008, I think, was TURNOUT, not percentage of those voting Democrat.

Frankly, I think the magic is gone for them...and while he will still carry 90% of the black vote, the turnout (real turnout, not dead/felon, etc.) will be lower.


43 posted on 09/16/2012 7:06:11 PM PDT by SoFloFreeper
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