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Charting Romney’s ‘47%’ that don’t pay income tax-A visual look at those who don’t pay ......
MarketWatch ^ | Sept. 18, 2012, 1:35 p.m. EDT

Posted on 09/18/2012 11:28:14 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach

A visual look at those who don’t pay federal income tax

MarketWatch Slide Shows

(Excerpt) Read more at marketwatch.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: election2012; obama; romney
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1 posted on 09/18/2012 11:28:17 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

What the Brown Shirt Media REALLY don’t want to talk about is how many of us who have “Gone Galt” are in this group. LOL.


2 posted on 09/18/2012 11:31:12 AM PDT by wastoute (Government cannot redistribute wealth. Government can only redistribute poverty.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Many of the 47% are Social Security recipients, who can be rather conservative, actually.

So don’t be too blue!


3 posted on 09/18/2012 11:32:46 AM PDT by Uncle Miltie (You didn't build that. The private sector is doing fine. We tried our plan and it worked.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

This highlights that the unemployment crisis is actually a lot older than even 2008. We never fully recovered employment from the drop in 2002. Real wages have been falling.

That’s the problem with Romney/Ryan’s cut taxes and regulations approach. We’ve ALREADY cut taxes. The cuts were built in when incomes fell.

More cuts to taxes is not going to put people back to work. Raising import tariffs and making stuff in America again will.


4 posted on 09/18/2012 11:33:37 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: wastoute
What the Brown Shirt Media REALLY don’t want to talk about is how many of us who have “Gone Galt” are in this group. LOL.

Yep.

5 posted on 09/18/2012 11:35:03 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

6 posted on 09/18/2012 11:35:57 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

Danny, wrong on all accounts. You seem like a democrat to me. High tariffs never worked except to raise prices.

High taxes are coming, record high gas prices, the government is draining capital out of the private sector hjkdue to our huge deficit spending. We now have the highest corporate rates globally and a record number of people are on the government dole.

to boot America’s freedom index rating has fallen to 7th place among free nations.


7 posted on 09/18/2012 11:44:50 AM PDT by ChiMark (chewed up his body for a decade)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Payroll taxes went up around the same time we had tax reform (where the divergence begins). For quite some time the Social Security surplus was used by the general fund. In effect, the lower classes were paying income tax in the form of FICA taxes. If the general fund ever starts paying the Social Security trust fund back, you can then talk about the lower working classes not paying [federal] taxes.


8 posted on 09/18/2012 11:45:05 AM PDT by GarthVader
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To: Uncle Miltie

As a Social Security recipient I was forced into the system by the Federal Government who took money from my paycheck every week. I pay taxes every year & I resent the 40% plus that don’t pay any taxes. I would like to see everyone paying taxes instead of 50% paying for the others who don’t want to work & want to live off food stamps, unemployment etc. If a person really needs help I have no problems with it but most people I see are making more money now than working. Same thing happened in Michigan where people on No-Fault auto benefits refused to go back to work because the No-Fault benefits paid more. Oh by the way I was a Democrat, voted for Ronald Reagan, became a Republican & now wondering if the Republicans will ever have the guts to do the right thing.


9 posted on 09/18/2012 11:52:22 AM PDT by jrcats (Hope & Change= No Hope & only changes that tries to destroy America)
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To: ChiMark
"Danny, wrong on all accounts. You seem like a democrat to me. High tariffs never worked except to raise prices."

The founding fathers put high tariffs in place, and they were in place until the 1980's. Now everything you buy is made in China and we have high unemployment.

You're the one who is rejecting the wisdom and values of the founding fathers. They knew the value of protecting the American market for Americans. So who's the democrat really? The guy espousing the values of the founding fathers, or the guy running around dissing the values of the founding fathers and calling people who disagree with him names. History of Tariffs - Nice chart

10 posted on 09/18/2012 11:52:50 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Uncle Miltie

Unfortunately, they are offset by the corporate cronies who are looking for handouts, too.


11 posted on 09/18/2012 11:55:55 AM PDT by Little Ray (AGAINST Obama in the General.)
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To: Uncle Miltie

“Many of the 47% are Social Security recipients”

Then they wouldn’t appear on this list because Social Security recipients do, in fact, pay income tax...on every last dime that the feds give to us then steal from us.


12 posted on 09/18/2012 11:56:26 AM PDT by spel_grammer_an_punct_polise (I wanna start a Seniors' Motor Scooter Gang. Wanna join?)
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To: DannyTN

Edied for you:

Raising import tariffs, making stuff in America again and reducing the size of the fed gov’t by at least 50% will.


13 posted on 09/18/2012 11:58:44 AM PDT by spel_grammer_an_punct_polise (I wanna start a Seniors' Motor Scooter Gang. Wanna join?)
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To: DannyTN

We didn’t have high unemployment until the 2008 crash. So how is that directly related to increased imports? There’s no connection. And setting up barriers to trade now would be counterproductive. Overseas markets are expanding faster than ever and we want to be able to sell our goods overseas. Sheer logic dictates that it would be stupid to pass a law that says we have to make our own products when they are available to purchase from foreign sources cheaper than we could make them.


14 posted on 09/18/2012 12:00:06 PM PDT by JediJones (KARL ROVE: "And remember, this year, no one is seriously talking about ending abortion.")
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To: Uncle Miltie
Nah! I am on SS, but I am not a 47%'er. SS is not to be confused with the WELFARE entitlements, I earned every penny of that, it's mine.

Count us in the 50% SS recipients who will Vote R.

Don't make the mistake of thinking WELFARE and the guaranteed SS and Military retirement funds are the same thing. Romney is speaking only of the 47% that have NEVER or EVER will pay or contribute in any manner into the system, he's right, they will not vote for him.

As if Romneys statement made a difference??? rofl.

15 posted on 09/18/2012 12:00:06 PM PDT by annieokie (O)
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To: ChiMark

The US government was financed primarily by high tariffs and a series of excise taxes on special products for MOST of its history.


16 posted on 09/18/2012 12:06:04 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: DannyTN

Agree with you last point, but that’s about it. Cutting taxes WILL help, and will help tremendously; Reagan proved that in spades. We aren’t just talking income taxes here; we’re taxed to death and Americans know it.


17 posted on 09/18/2012 12:06:30 PM PDT by RightOnline (I am Andrew Breitbart!)
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To: DannyTN

Agree with your last point, but that’s about it. Cutting taxes WILL help, and will help tremendously; Reagan proved that in spades. We aren’t just talking income taxes here; we’re taxed to death and Americans know it.


18 posted on 09/18/2012 12:07:44 PM PDT by RightOnline (I am Andrew Breitbart!)
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To: DannyTN

Sorry - this isn’t the 1700’s. We need lower taxes and lower regulations and don’t want high tariff isolationist policies. The reason those manufacturing jobs left was due to high union labor. But we can get some of them back but it must be non union to compete. Unions and dems are responsible for the job losses.


19 posted on 09/18/2012 12:09:02 PM PDT by plain talk
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To: DannyTN
Raising import tariffs and making stuff in America again will.

Do you have any idea how many US jobs are dependent on imports?

20 posted on 09/18/2012 12:09:44 PM PDT by Mr. Jeeves (CTRL-GALT-DELETE)
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To: spel_grammer_an_punct_polise
Then they wouldn’t appear on this list because Social Security recipients do, in fact, pay income tax...on every last dime that the feds give to us then steal from us.

No they don't, what does their income have to be before they pay income taxes?

21 posted on 09/18/2012 12:10:23 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: annieokie
Actually Romney found it very difficult to differentiate among Democrats, folks who don't pay federal income tax, and people who probably won't vote for him ~ he also imagined there's a broad middle out there of undecided voters just waiting for the chance to vote or him ~ so he's going to pay a lot of attention to them AND NOBODY ELSE!

A cynic might suggest he has trouble with two things ~ basic political theory, and demographics.

He's fortunate that his opponent also has these same difficulties.

Bet Karl Rove is thinking of some more victims while he's got both hands to his face wandering about going "OH NOES OH NOES"

22 posted on 09/18/2012 12:12:41 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: annieokie; Uncle Miltie
Count us in the 50% SS recipients who will Vote R.

Romney DID include SS and others in the 47%.

The Social Security group was the ONLY age group that went republican.

“Americans age 65 and older – were the only age group to support the losing candidate, Sen. John McCann. And, it was by a sizable margin – 53% for McCain and only 45% for the winner, Sen. Barack Obama.”

23 posted on 09/18/2012 12:14:06 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12

Oh yeah.

Those making over $200,000 voted for Obama, while the SS crowd was the only age group voting republican.


24 posted on 09/18/2012 12:16:36 PM PDT by ansel12
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To: annieokie

Exactly so.


25 posted on 09/18/2012 12:18:54 PM PDT by jwalsh07 (.)
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To: plain talk
"The reason those manufacturing jobs left was due to high union labor. "

That's ridiculous. Removing unions aren't going to make us competitive with wages in China. Chinese make $2/day. Is that what you want for America? A race to the bottom for wages with third world countries. If our people were employed, I'd have no problem taking advantage of cheap labor, though we should stay away from communist countries. But to leave our people starving or on the government dole, while buying overseas is criminal.

Also China is not an equal trading partner. The Chinese government takes 90% of the profits of their firms and doesn't let it go back to buy goods from America. Instead they buy either U.S. Debt or they buy more U.S. manufacturing capability and disassemble it and ship it to China to employ their people.

26 posted on 09/18/2012 12:19:19 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

No one should pay this illegal tax for heaven sakes! Could you imagine the Founders dieing for an income tax..”progressive” just as the communists have? OMG!


27 posted on 09/18/2012 12:20:18 PM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
A visual look at those who don’t pay federal income tax

This doesn't tell you who is on the dole though --

28 posted on 09/18/2012 12:21:56 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: spel_grammer_an_punct_polise
Then they wouldn’t appear on this list because Social Security recipients do, in fact, pay income tax...on every last dime that the feds give to us then steal from us.

The only thing the Feds are giving you is some of your own money back.

29 posted on 09/18/2012 12:24:55 PM PDT by RedMDer (https://support.woundedwarriorproject.org/default.aspx?tsid=93destr)
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To: Mr. Jeeves
"Do you have any idea how many US jobs are dependent on imports?"

With imports account for 16% of GNP, way way too many. Burt really most import related jobs are truly dependent on imports. Longshoremen are. But all the marketing and redistribution jobs would remain regardless of where the item is produced, as long as it is produced.

Yeah, there will be some economic dislocations. But manufacturing things here will produce a lot more jobs than those imports produced. So despite the dislocations there will be a net increase in jobs. A huge net increase in jobs. With corresponding huge increase in government revenues and huge drops in government outlays.

Imagine we have Gov't revenues of $5 Trillion a year with a seriously impaired economy where 25% of our people aren't working. Get that back to only 5% of our people aren't working and what are gov't revenues? $6 Trillion? $7 Trillion?

If you want to end the deficits, getting people back to work is the way to do it. Cutting support before you fix the economy is going to discredit conservatism for 30 years.

30 posted on 09/18/2012 12:28:03 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

Well you’re right in that americans won’t work for $2 per hour. That’s why the chinese and vietnamese will continue to build all our stuff for us. I do think we need some more manufacturing in the US but that’s for for national security purposes

Good luck trying to sell that democrat union garbage around here. And if you want higher taxes send uncle sam a check. Have a nice day danny.


31 posted on 09/18/2012 12:28:33 PM PDT by plain talk
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To: plain talk
"Good luck trying to sell that democrat union garbage around here. And if you want higher taxes send uncle sam a check. Have a nice day danny."

I never advocated higher taxes. I just don't think cutting taxes will solve our economic problems. They aren't the cause and won't be the cure.

As far as "democrat union garbage", you know a broken clock is right twice a day. Maybe, just maybe, the unions were right when they said that lowering tariffs and free trade agreements were going to cost jobs.

The founding fathers believed in import tariffs. Maybe we need to look at tariffs on their own merits, instead of who has promoted them in the past.

32 posted on 09/18/2012 12:33:46 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: muawiyah
he's going to pay a lot of attention to them AND NOBODY ELSE!...the undecided voter.

I have no problem with that, whatever it takes to get them is smart.

We of the Silver Brigade are ready to VOTE R & R.

BTW: hasn't this 47% non issue gone far enough? Where did the attacks on our embassies go? Is there still a bad economy, unemployment, obamacareism, czarism's, etc.,etc.,etc.?????

Just wondering.

33 posted on 09/18/2012 12:47:12 PM PDT by annieokie (O)
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To: DannyTN

Wrong again, Danny. Check your “nice chart” again. The most prosperous time in American history was the post-war period, 1945-1960. Check the average duty rates for that period.

Compare those with the duty rates in effect 1930-1940, the most disastrous economy this country has ever endured.

High tariffs crush the economy and low tariffs nurture it.


34 posted on 09/18/2012 12:57:14 PM PDT by Walrus (Restoring America starts today! Let's roll!)
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To: Walrus

1945-1960 had more to do with Europe being in tatters due to WWII than anything else.


35 posted on 09/18/2012 1:07:04 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Walrus
Free Trade works only when countries are equal trading partners.

An example of free trade working is this:

An example of Free trade not working is this:


36 posted on 09/18/2012 1:11:45 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: Uncle Miltie

Many of the 47% are Social Security recipients, who can be rather conservative, actually.
*********************************
I’ve been on SSI for 8 years and have had to pay Federal income tax every year on that income. SSI also deducts close to $100 a month from my check for Medicare.

From the many threads I’ve read on FR, it seems that many people are under the impression that SSI recipients don’t have to pay Federal income tax.


37 posted on 09/18/2012 2:07:56 PM PDT by octex
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To: DannyTN

Read Stephen Moore’s book or any book concerning the punishing act of tariffs.
where are you getting the false info/ the Ed show?

America was chiefly agrarian in the 1700’s. That’s long before the industrial revolution so don’t even start there.

Part of the cause of the war between the states was due to the high tariffs Lincoln placed on Southern Ag products.
The Smoot-Hawley tariff along with incredible tax increases plunged the U.S.
into a deep depression during the 1930’s. Your hero Roosevelt was the culprit.

Then we had those dark years of Johnson, Nixon, Ford and Carter. High tariiffs, excessive regs with wage and price controls leading to stagnant incomes and inflation.


38 posted on 09/18/2012 2:09:11 PM PDT by ChiMark (chewed up his body for a decade)
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To: muawiyah

It is not a lack of revenue but over spending by Uncle sam.
you could not raise enough revenue through taxation

forget taxes the current record high deficit is crowding out capital formation for the private sector. government spending creates nothing except to rob Peter to pay paul.


39 posted on 09/18/2012 2:18:43 PM PDT by ChiMark (chewed up his body for a decade)
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To: ChiMark
"Read Stephen Moore’s book or any book concerning the punishing act of tariffs. "

I've studied enough economics. I've also shopped at Walmart where everything is made in China. I've watched relatives displaced because their work went out of country. I've watched entire towns destroyed when they lost their industry to overseas. It's not like they were making buggy whips. They were making stuff that every American still buys. It's just now Chinese are employed instead of Americans.

You read Pat Buchanon's book on protectionism or any book showing the positive aspects of tariffs. (I haven't read it. Don't need to.)

"where are you getting the false info/ the Ed show?"

What do you think is false?

"America was chiefly agrarian in the 1700’s. That’s long before the industrial revolution so don’t even start there."

So you're claiming the founding father's views on import tariffs are irrelevant because we produce different widgets today. Widgets then were food and clothes, widgets now are food clothes, TV's, cellphones, and airplanes.

Part of the cause of the war between the states was due to the high tariffs Lincoln placed on Southern Ag products.'

Okay Fine. Let's not put intrastate tariffs in place. That way we won't have a civil war. Satisfied?

The Smoot-Hawley tariff along with incredible tax increases plunged the U.S. into a deep depression during the 1930’s. "

That's funny I thought the Great Depression started in 1929 before Smoot-Hawley was passed. GNP dropped 46% during the Great Depression. Imports were only 4% of GNP. LOL those ripple effects are something!!! OR...imports didn't cause the Great Depression. They weren't anywhere near big enough. The banking failures and stock market collapse caused the depression not imports. "Then we had those dark years of Johnson, Nixon, Ford and Carter. High tariiffs, excessive regs with wage and price controls leading to stagnant incomes and inflation."

Let's blame everything on imports!!! There was an oil price shock in the 70's. Remember that? That's what caused the inflation and Nixon to try price controls. Not import tariffs. Nice try. Thanks for playing.

It was an oil price shock that tipped off this crisis too. But the economy was already weakened by the lost of jobs. It didn't take much to tip it over and watch the unemployment start going through the roof.

25% unemployment. The graph at the top of this page shows taxes have already been cut. Maybe we could cut more. But what we need is jobs. And neither candidate has a plan. 25% unemployment. 1 out of 4 of your countrymen can't find a job. And all you got is cut taxes? Look at what has changed. Imports!

40 posted on 09/18/2012 2:26:44 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: spel_grammer_an_punct_polise

high sugar tariffs by inefficient U.S. sugar producers forced candy companies to leave the U.S. That’s the effect of tariffs.


41 posted on 09/18/2012 2:36:26 PM PDT by ChiMark (chewed up his body for a decade)
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To: muawiyah

I’m also disappointed in Romney’s lumpen analysis; as a.businessman he should be better versed in market demographics. I’ve never heard of a.successful product.for.the mass market.in which half the market’s conceded to.the competition.


42 posted on 09/18/2012 2:39:08 PM PDT by kenavi (Obama doesn't hate private equity. He wants to be it with our money.)
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To: kenavi
I worked for a monopoly organization and our target markets were everybody in America. They think they own the USPS ~ so whether you want to care about them they make you worry about them anyway.

Romney's examination of the human psyche wouldn't let him deliver mail successfully. He'd be stuffing the mail for people he didn't care for down the sewers every day.

At the same time Obama would have an undercover postal inspector following him every day ~ make sure he came back with the right delivery vehicle!

These guys are running for President ~ and a couple of neighborhoods out there are the better for it eh!

43 posted on 09/18/2012 3:10:43 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: DannyTN; Mr. Jeeves
We are the world's most fully mechanized, automated, computerized and roboticized nation.

Most of the industrial jobs we've lost have gone to the machines ~ and they continue to make the same old stuff.

The third world hasn't picked up on the more primitive stuff we can't mechanize, but China has. As cheap as their workers are the machines are cheaper, and they already see some labor dislocation problems due to mechanization, automation, comuterization, robotics AND improved work methods.

Advanced technology comes at a heavy price ~ you don't have a job anymore.

44 posted on 09/18/2012 3:16:58 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: ChiMark
I was speaking of the 1800s as the United States became the world's industrial and manufacturing super-power. Back in the 1700s we were mostly into the business of providing raw materials for clothing ~ in the 1800s we were able to conduct a war worthy of favorable comparisons to modern wars.

At the same time they were still building railroads.

The federal government was kept limited by the tariffs it could levy on imported goods. There's a point where people won't pay and there you have it ~ the federales get starved.

BTW, Lincoln was in office one day when the Souf' decided to blow things off. He didn't have a chance to impose high tariffs on anybody.

45 posted on 09/18/2012 3:22:51 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
While some jobs are lost to automation. That doesn't explain why everything in Walmart is made in China. Why imports are 16% of GNP and why 25% of our workforce is unemployed and why China owns so much U.S. Debt.

Americans are still spending money. But they are spending it on goods not made in America. Change that and Americans will be working again.

46 posted on 09/18/2012 3:31:33 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN
China's share is about 2%. OIl is big ~ due to the fact we don't produce enough oil we import it ~ from Canada, etc.

We could change that quite easily.

47 posted on 09/18/2012 3:47:37 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: ChiMark
"high sugar tariffs by inefficient U.S. sugar producers forced candy companies to leave the U.S. That’s the effect of tariffs."

No that's the effect of unequally applied tariffs. If they had applied the same % tariff to imported candy that they did to sugar, no candy company would have left.

48 posted on 09/18/2012 3:47:37 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: DannyTN

There should be no tarriff on sugar at all


49 posted on 09/18/2012 3:49:02 PM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: muawiyah
"China's share is about 2%."

China is 17.8% of our imports. 16.2% of our overall trade because they don't buy as much from us as we do from them.

Foreign Trade

50 posted on 09/18/2012 3:53:35 PM PDT by DannyTN
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