Skip to comments.Tungsten-Filled 10 Oz Gold Bar Found In The Middle Of Manhattan's Jewelry District
Posted on 09/18/2012 7:08:59 PM PDT by Perdogg
It is one thing for tungsten-filled gold bars to appear in the UK, or in Germany: after all out of sight, and across the Atlantic, certainly must mean out of mind, and out of the safe. However, when a 10 ounce 999.9 gold bar bearing the stamp of the reputable Swiss Produits Artistiques Métaux Précieux (PAMP, with owner MTP) and a serial number (serial #038892, likely rehypothecated in at least 10 gold ETFs across the world but that's a different story), mysteriously emerges in the heart of the world's jewerly district located on 47th street in Manhattan, things get real quick. Moments ago, Myfoxny reported that a 10-ounce gold bar costing nearly $18,000 turned out to be a counterfeit. The discovery was made by the dealer Ibrahim Fadl, who bought the PAMP bar in question from a merchant who has sold him real gold before. "But he heard counterfeit gold bars were going around, so he drilled into several of his gold bars worth $100,000 and saw gray tungsten -- not gold. The bar was filled with tungsten, which weighs nearly the same as gold but costs just over a dollar an ounce."
(Excerpt) Read more at zerohedge.com ...
The guy should watch Pawn Stars!
When you heard of ‘ghost steel’ in China, you knew a gold fraud was close behind.
Pat Buchanan just said
Barack Obama drug dealer of welfare
Civilization is founded on trust. No trust, no civilization.
I heard some speculation about a month ago that it may be a lot worse than this. They were talking Fort Knox. Can’t remember where I heard it.
Just buy tungsten bars. If you buy a gold bar and someone fills it with tungsten, then you lose, but if you buy a tungsten barm, and someone fills it with gold, then whoopie!
Meanwhile the fed is “rehypothecating” money all over the place.
Major fail revealed in that sentence. If you are not a reputable merchant, how are you going to sell your gold? What good is $10,000,000 worth of gold if no one will buy, or trade with you because they can't trust it's gold?
And it only costs a buck. (That’s $10,000 in 2014 dollars)
People should start buying gold in the half bar. Only accept it after it’s been sheared in half leaving the center exposed.
Perhaps the serial numbers could be traced back? As in the gold they were holding in the alleged customer accounts?
No Au? Ibrahim Fadl should fill the merchant with Pb.
Since it looks like a word that will be coming into common usage pretty quickly.
Definition of ‘Rehypothecation’
There is a test that dearlers can use. Dealers seem to use an acid test, which of course tests the surface. But the surface of these is gold, so it passes. but there are tests that are acoustic or magnetic/electrical which can test for tungsten inside gold. Dealers just need to use them.
I thought Archimedes solved this problem 2500 years ago.
No need. Portable X-ray Fluorescence instruments are easily available and can readily distinguish between tungsten and gold. Non-destructive, no cutting/shearing needed.
(Considering the article I posted from ZeroHedge on Rehypothecation...?)
Portable XRF Instrument:
Frankly it sounds like manipulation of collateral to me.
I’m just learning the term so my understanding is petty rough.
If you borrowed from me and used your house as collateral and I borrowed from someone else and also used your house as collateral.
Better living through (analytical) chemistry / chemical physics! (sound of grey_whiskers purring).
The reason why tungsten is being used is because it has nearly the same density as gold.
They are going to have to resort to electromagnetic scanners or something.
Gold's density is 19.30 g/cc, whereas tungsten's is 19.25 g/cc. Assuming its outer dimensions were not changed, the 10 oz bar should be about 0.7 grams lighter.
I thought Archimedes solved this problem 2500 years ago.
A properly weighted gold/tungsten/lead bar would pass the Archimedes test...
It would not pass hydrostatic specific gravity measurement
Also people have wondered if Archimedes was capable of measuring the differences in water volumes precisely enough.
The Republicans just added a plank to the platform about auditing Fort Knox, throwing a bone to Ron Paul. Why do I have a feeling that even if Romney is reelecting and we take both houses of Congress that nothing will ever come of that?
Or circulation golden eagles.
An object denser than water will only displace its volume, so it would not matter if this was lead, copper, quartz, or gold. They all would displace the same amount of liquid given it has the same dimensions.
True statement and fundamental as well.
Who can we trust today? Not our governments. Not our institutions such as universities, religious or even charitable institutions. The Hard Left has thoroughly infiltrated all of them and corrupted all of them.
When it reaches the point where we can not even trust one another, we become the 3rd world and all hell breaks lose.
XRF machines are about $15K and really only detect the surface of the metal under test. They are also a tad tricky to use. If a bogus bar was tungsten and merely gold-plated, it would probably fail such a test. But if it started out as a genuine PAMP gold bar and was then drilled, like the bars pictured below (which are silver, not gold, and with lead inserts, not tungsten, but I show them for the fakery technique) with tungsten rods inserted, I have some doubt an XRF assay would reveal the fake core(s).
His problem involved silver melted into the gold.
This is more insidious, in that tungsten and gold weigh nearly the same, so the volume is also nearly the same.......
LOL, excellent out-of-the-box thinking. If I should ever become President, I'm appointing you Secretary of the Treasury.
And I will require each cabinet member to use the word "woopie" at least once in every report.
When my team finishes perfecting our molecular fabricator, which will make 4oz per hour of 24kt gold, the market will crash and burn.
Coins can be faked just as easily.
A government job. Only question is, which government?
those Chinese are so wild and crazy with their fake economy
Seems like all is going as planned.
Now THAT is inflation
on that Pawn Stars show someone came in with a gold brick and they drilled several holes and did the acid test to the shavings from inside.
It was real.
Goldfinger would pay you a visit.
The purpose of displacing the water is merely to obtain an accurate measurement of the irregularly shaped supposed gold bar's volume. The density of the object being measured doesn't matter, as long as it's fully immersed.
E.g., if the gold bar displaces 14.6888 cc of water, then it should weigh 283.49384 grams, or 10 oz. On, the other hand if it's 95% tungsten, it will only weigh about 282.796 grams. Gold is 19.30 g/cc, whereas tungsten is only 19.25 g/cc.
I suppose you could make it more interesting by mixing in some osmium, which is 22.59 g/cc, but, unlike tungsten, osmium is expensive. Back in high school, a kid I knew had got his hands on the coin sorting mechanism of a coke machine. He found that it worked based on the magnetic properties of the coins, as well as their size and weight. For instance, a quarter-sized slug punched out of a lead sheet went straight down the reject path. However, he found that if he glued on a small fleck of iron foil, the hybrid slug would work just fine.
It’s after the Great Fall...
The Provisional United States of South-East America?
Cuz, I’m getting a plumb job in the Provision Free Republic of Texas!
Loved the art work
Too bad it’s hollow ....
Correct, but I doubt that any facility that is worried about this problem would be unable to afford the $15K.
...and really only detect the surface of the metal under test."
Incorrect. X-rays penetrate quite nicely, in both directions. This isn't photoelectron spectroscopy, which "is" very depth limited. Yes, there "are" shielding effects based on atomic number of substrate, so penetration depth "is" better for lighter elements, but I would certainly expect mm's of penetration if not cm's. I suspect one can get charts from the mfg. with the requisite info.
"They are also a tad tricky to use."
Hardly. Correct interpretation of data requires some knowledge, but "use" is about a simple as it gets....hold it against the "target" and "pull/hold the trigger".
And yes, I've looked at the ubiquitous stories that all contain the statement "it passed a hand-held XRF test". One even claimed that XRF "..only penetrates the first 0.001 inch", which is complete BS. I suspect this was a completely untrained operator that was using it as a "magic box".
Pretty much. A scale and a graduated cylinder is all I need...
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