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"The Right Is Wrong to Pin Obama’s Edge on Welfare State"
memeorandum ^ | Sept. 17, 2012 | Ramesh Ponnuru

Posted on 09/19/2012 7:08:32 AM PDT by teflon9

Mitt Romney echoed the sentiment in a video secretly recorded at a fundraiser ... in which he argued that the 47 percent of Americans who don’t pay federal income taxes would vote for Obama “no matter what.”

As an explanation for electoral trends, though, this theory doesn’t hold up.

One major reason for the growth of the federal government in recent years has been that entitlement spending per beneficiary has increased, and so has the number of beneficiaries as people have retired. Yet senior citizens -- who benefit from federal programs, on average, far more than younger people -- have become more Republican over that same period. They actually voted for John McCain over Obama in 2008 by a slightly higher margin than they did for George W. Bush over Kerry in 2004.

In 2010, their Republican margin increased even more, to a whopping 21 points. Pollster Scott Rasmussen told me that ... Romney still leads among seniors by 19 points.

[T]he public at large isn’t as convinced as conservatives that he has been a dismal failure. Most people cut him some slack because of the economic crisis that began under a Republican president and kept unfolding as Obama took office ... Some people think the economy has done about as well as it could have under the circumstances.

Another reason Obama is doing well might have to do with the weakness of the Republican economic message. Republicans dwell on the heroic entrepreneur held back by taxes and regulation, which must be part of the story that a free-market party tells ... most people don’t see themselves in that storyline, any more than they see themselves as dependents of the federal government. They don’t see Americans as divided between makers and takers.

To the extent Republicans do, they’re handicapping themselves.

(Excerpt) Read more at memeorandum.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: dependency; obama; romney; victims
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So are Romney and Paul Ryan running on the wrong issues?
1 posted on 09/19/2012 7:08:34 AM PDT by teflon9
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To: teflon9
IMO, it is absurd to dissect Romney's off the record remarks as if they were a prepared speech or the official Republican platform.
2 posted on 09/19/2012 7:11:54 AM PDT by Sans-Culotte ( Pray for Obama- Psalm 109:8)
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To: teflon9

Yet another liberal purposefully misses the point and wanders off into the nonsensical Land Of Spurious Warfare.


3 posted on 09/19/2012 7:12:06 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny
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To: teflon9

Romney needs to pivot on this and begin to include a statement regarding the unprecedented growth of the public sector under his administration. Include those gummint union employees in that 47%.

Dependent on the government...not just taxes.


4 posted on 09/19/2012 7:12:44 AM PDT by Cletus.D.Yokel (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Alterations - The acronym explains the science.)
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To: teflon9
Romney and Ryan can;t even get their message out or even say anything because of this elitist left wing media which attacks them instead of asking their messiah real questions.

examples for those left wing trolls on this site.
Why did you go to Vegas and did you think it was right after these attacks and the death of four Americans?
You called Bush unpatriotic for the debt and yet you have now said last night tat you do not know what the debt was under Bush and now have put us into 6 trillion more debt so does this make you unpatriotic?

I could go on and on but what's the point when the media has their messiah back and lies, covers for him.

5 posted on 09/19/2012 7:16:54 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: teflon9
Yet senior citizens -- who benefit from federal programs, on average, far more than younger people -

Seniors benefit from SS because they were forced into it. All seniors I know are dead set against "O".I'm on medicare and would not have any objection to revamping it to be more efficient. If that meant me paying more of a deductible so be it but while we are at it how about the medicaid recipients who pay nothing?

6 posted on 09/19/2012 7:23:27 AM PDT by ontap
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To: teflon9
Our Forefathers warned of this 47%....Read Fifty-Five Men: The Story of the Constitution by O'Dell.

Madison is very correct in the warning and that's where we are today. His conclusion was that the Senate would be the strength through this...the wise men...who would overrule ignorance and the political sheep....

THAT'S the 47% that Romney is talking about.

7 posted on 09/19/2012 7:25:20 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: teflon9

Social Security is a badly run annuity program. The issue of the makers and takers, taxpayers and welfare beneficiaries is distinct and different. The 47% number is a rhetorical flourish - and a short hand way of describing those who expect government, i.e., tax payers, to cover for those who could but don’t.
The current mind set is enormously corrosive. Those who retire but claim unemployment, those who claim disability but who are not, those who receive payment under the table, those who hide income to avoid taxes, those who double dip, those who hide assets to be eligible for medicaid and pass on the costs to the general tax payers are all destroying the trust we have that we will all play by the rules.


8 posted on 09/19/2012 7:26:13 AM PDT by bjc (Check the data!!)
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To: teflon9
Photobucket
9 posted on 09/19/2012 7:27:51 AM PDT by baddog 219
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To: teflon9

Seniors are being blamed? Maybe the requirement to be 65-years-old for Social Security and Medicare meant that those were made for retirees after they spent an entire lifetime paying INTO the system.

Once that money started being funneled to every waif who decided to squirt out a few children from deadbeat dads, the whole thing strts collapsing.

Of course the lefty journalist turn it around and make it about seniors “taking money away” from those “poor victims”, who haven’t contributed one red cent.

It’s obvious that if the left had their way, once we no longer work and pay taxes, we’d all be given an all-expense paid trip to the nearest gas chambers.

They “work the system” to steal money legislated for seniors, and then accuse the seniors of causing the problem.


10 posted on 09/19/2012 7:28:32 AM PDT by FrankR (They will become our ultimate masters the day we surrender the 2nd Amendment.)
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To: teflon9

This is retarded. Romneys remarks are aimed at the welfare state not people who worked for 50 years forced to contribute to social security and the upkeep of malingerers the entire time.


11 posted on 09/19/2012 7:29:08 AM PDT by jwalsh07 (.)
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To: teflon9

The issues are, and have always been, Takers vs Producers, the State vs the Individual, Constitutional Republic vs Rule of Men.
ALL those who get their income from tax dollars are Takers.
Producers don’t live off others.

So . . . ALL government employees at every level are Takers, with the exception of uniformed military. ALL those who get a check provided through TAX DOLLARS and the largesse of the state are Takers, this includes Social Security and all other forms of transfer (i.e. WELFARE) payments. Those who bend the tax code rules to their benefit are not Takers, it is THEIR money to begin with!

A Producer’s livelihood does not depend on taking money from fellow citizens through the force of law. Producers willingly provide goods and services to their fellow citizens through private voluntary exchange.

All you Takers, go ahead and flame away . . .


12 posted on 09/19/2012 7:30:17 AM PDT by Macoozie (1) Win the Senate 2) Repeal Obamacare 3) Impeach Roberts)
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To: Psycho_Bunny

It’s not a liberal, it’s just Ramesh being contrarian. Ho hum. He may not always be right, but it is probably good for conservatives to have a few devil’s advocates on occasion.


13 posted on 09/19/2012 7:41:16 AM PDT by Unam Sanctam
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To: Macoozie
"So . . . ALL government employees at every level are Takers, with the exception of uniformed military."

And you are...? And I should defer to your brand of "logic" why?

Oh, and nice generalization there. Maybe you should consider finding a narrower brush with which to paint, huh?

14 posted on 09/19/2012 8:03:05 AM PDT by EnigmaticAnomaly ("Mantra of the left: 'It's only okay when WE do it.'")
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To: Unam Sanctam
Madison is very correct in the warning and that's where we are today. His conclusion was that the Senate would be the strength through this...the wise men...who would overrule ignorance and the political sheep.

This being written prior to the 17th Amendment. Today, Senators are Anything But "the wise men".

15 posted on 09/19/2012 8:04:05 AM PDT by radioone ( Main Stream Media. The Government built that.)
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To: teflon9

No, they’re right.

While we’re at it, get rid of social security and medicare, too.

People should plan ahead for their retirement, and if they don’t? Tough. Let ‘em eat cat food while staying at the Y.
So what if they paid into it. So have I and younger people than me, and thanks to these old leeches we’ll never get a third of it back. If we lose, so should they.

Frankly I’m tired of paying for retirees to drive off to Florida in their Cadillacs to their winter homes in the effing Villages.


16 posted on 09/19/2012 8:16:43 AM PDT by Emperor Palpatine ("On the ascent of Olympus, what's a botched bar or two?" -Artur Schnabel)
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To: ontap

Medicare and SS need to go.

You should have planned ahead.


17 posted on 09/19/2012 8:18:59 AM PDT by Emperor Palpatine ("On the ascent of Olympus, what's a botched bar or two?" -Artur Schnabel)
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To: Macoozie

18 posted on 09/19/2012 8:22:33 AM PDT by Emperor Palpatine ("On the ascent of Olympus, what's a botched bar or two?" -Artur Schnabel)
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To: manc

I don’t watch television, but my wife does, and when I got up this morning, I walked by and “Good Morning America” was on the tube.

They had Jimmy Carter’s grandson, who was somehow involved in “exposing” the material, and the amount of air time they gave him was extensive and fawning from looking at the body language and facial expressions. Then they had Michael Isikoff on, followed by Nancy Pelosi. I couldn’t hear what was being said, but it was apparently non-confrontational and they looked quite smug and comfortable.

Looked like they were coming out with all weapons.


19 posted on 09/19/2012 8:43:40 AM PDT by rlmorel ("It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong." Voltaire)
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To: teflon9

Obama’s “edge” is an illusion created by the Obamamedia and skewed polling samples. Even then is is fading quickly. Romney isn’t saying the 47 percent are welfare recipients. He said they don’t pay income tax, and that is correct, except the number of people who pay no income tax is higher than 47 percent. Besides, assuming Romney did mean to say that everyone who is dependent upon the federal government tends to support Democrats, is it any different than what Democrats claim?

It is the Democrats who divide people by class, race, sex, sexual preference and dependency on government. It is the bread and butter of their neosovietism. Yet when Romney brings up the division leftist politics and policies have created, there are conservative pundits who crumple up from anxiety. The left has created a class war, and they have defined the two sides of it, not Romney.

The Democrats define themselves by bashing prosperity and demanding more from the prosperous. They look at government as the purveyor of all things good to those who aren’t ranked among the prosperous, the great redistributing equalizer. It takes two sides to play that game.


20 posted on 09/19/2012 8:46:03 AM PDT by pallis
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To: Macoozie

“ALL those who get a check provided through TAX DOLLARS and the largesse of the state are Takers, this includes Social Security and all other forms of transfer (i.e. WELFARE) payments. Those who bend the tax code rules to their benefit are not Takers, it is THEIR money to begin with!”

So...all seniors over the age of 70 who were required to have THEIR SS money taken directly from their paychecks when they worked, are Takers. Those who “bend” (tax cheats)the tax code rules(and pay into SS)are not Takers. So... according to you, tax cheats are not Takers but most all seniors are Takers. Duly noted.


21 posted on 09/19/2012 8:53:19 AM PDT by Mashood
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To: Emperor Palpatine
You obviously haven't paid into it 45 yrs or you wouldn’t post such an idiot post!!
22 posted on 09/19/2012 8:57:26 AM PDT by ontap
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To: Sacajaweau
THAT'S the 47% that Romney is talking about.

What 47% is Romney talking about, people who vote democrat?

Obama easily won the $200,000 income and above, by a 52 to 46 margin!

Obama lost the $50,000-$75,000 income group by a single point!

Obama won the $75,000 to $100,000 income group by a solid 51 to 48 margin.

Obama lost hugely from those 65 and older all of them collecting SS, and tons of them not owing taxes. They were the ONLY age group that voted against Obama.

There is no neat little package of 47% of Americans for a President to write off because they don’t vote for him.

23 posted on 09/19/2012 9:01:13 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: rlmorel
my MIL watches Good morning America and Today show.
She came down here to the south to my house some time ago and she wanted to watch her shows.

I put them on for about an hour and I turned it off and told her why she thought the Dems were great etc.

I couldn;t believe how much they do not inform the viewers, how much they lie and how many talking left wing heads they have on.

It took months for her to understand that her JFK party has gone and it;s been taken over by socialists.

SHe now voted for Brown and against the Dems for the first time in her life, she is also voting for Romney , not because she loves him but because she now hates obama and the party he has changed over the years.

I talked to a life time republican , marine vet etc and he told me that attacks over in N Libya was over a movie.

I asked him what news channels he had been watching and he told me the evening news channels.

I had to explain to him that it was not just a movie, it was failed foreign policy and he had no clue about jug ears going to Vegas after these deaths and attacks .

The media is our enemy, they are lying like mad, they are twisting the facts to attack Romney and if the truth did get out jug ears numbers would be in the 20’s.

We have to inform our friends, family, neighbors, and those at work.
I've found that when I meet people who have little facts , they all watch their evening news or CNN.

24 posted on 09/19/2012 9:04:01 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: ontap

I’m young but I agree with you.


25 posted on 09/19/2012 9:06:42 AM PDT by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: ontap

No, closer to 35.

But I don’t care.

We can’t afford it, and I’m tired of supporting freeloaders and seniors.


26 posted on 09/19/2012 9:11:40 AM PDT by Emperor Palpatine ("On the ascent of Olympus, what's a botched bar or two?" -Artur Schnabel)
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To: Emperor Palpatine
Freeloaders and seniors

Does that apply to your mommy and daddy and granny.The depth of your stupidity is amazing. First off you haven't done a damn thing every senior hasn't already done so if you expect any sympathy for you "SACRIFICE" forget it. Here's how this is going down, you will spend the next 15,20 30 yrs whatever bitching and moaning about all the money your having to pay and then along about your 62nd birthday you'll get a letter from SS telling you you have to apply...at this point yopu'll meander on down to the SS administration and sign up.

27 posted on 09/19/2012 9:59:46 AM PDT by ontap
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To: ontap

They’re all dead.

Nice try, though.

There are only two classes of people. Creators and parasites. Doers and second-handers.

I agree with Ayn Rand, not your pitiful attempt at throwing a guilt trip. I have nothing to feel guilty about.

You must get a check.


28 posted on 09/19/2012 10:08:10 AM PDT by Emperor Palpatine ("On the ascent of Olympus, what's a botched bar or two?" -Artur Schnabel)
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To: Emperor Palpatine
So they didn't draw SS before they died? And your right pal I get a check, and you'll keep paying those SS taxes just like I did...whether you like it or not!!! Just like I did!!!
29 posted on 09/19/2012 10:18:09 AM PDT by ontap
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To: ontap

Well, I’m willing to chalk up my contributions to gambling losses and do away with it entirely.

I don’t need it or Medicare when I retire...IF I fully retire.


30 posted on 09/19/2012 10:25:19 AM PDT by Emperor Palpatine ("On the ascent of Olympus, what's a botched bar or two?" -Artur Schnabel)
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To: Psycho_Bunny

rats have two big advantages
1-single women with children
2-those with two digit iqs
delete these groups and the rats would never win anything


31 posted on 09/19/2012 10:29:09 AM PDT by genghis
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To: Emperor Palpatine
Well, I’m willing to chalk up my contributions to gambling losses and do away with it entirely.

What you're willing to do has nothing to do with anything. I told you what you're GOING to do, you have no choice Now when your time comes you are perfectly free to turn down your SS (you don't have to turn down medicare ,that's automatic if you refuse SS) but you'll keep paying.

32 posted on 09/19/2012 10:32:07 AM PDT by ontap
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To: ansel12

He’ll lose the 65+ers again!!


33 posted on 09/19/2012 10:34:51 AM PDT by ontap
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To: ontap

I think the whole thing should be scrapped.

For everyone.

Sorry you didn’t plan ahead for your retirement well enoung, toots.

But that doesn’t ebtitle you, or anyone, to one red cent of mine.

Get rid of Medicare and SS immediately.

It might be rough for some, but they’ll get over it, or else.

Yes, I believe in the survival of the fittest.


34 posted on 09/19/2012 10:41:43 AM PDT by Emperor Palpatine ("On the ascent of Olympus, what's a botched bar or two?" -Artur Schnabel)
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To: Emperor Palpatine

Your a slow learner...it doesn’t make a good g$%damn what you think. Get over it it will never happen. And the only one who will “get over it or else” is you!!! And just for the record I’m not solely dependent on SS but it was part of the plan and who do you think got my money!!


35 posted on 09/19/2012 10:47:56 AM PDT by ontap
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To: ontap

I’m not a slow learner.

And you’re sucking on the public teat. That makes you one of the 47%.

Get a job.


36 posted on 09/19/2012 10:51:35 AM PDT by Emperor Palpatine ("On the ascent of Olympus, what's a botched bar or two?" -Artur Schnabel)
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To: Emperor Palpatine

Just shut up and keep paying. If I lose my SS I’ll have to half the number of Cruises I take.


37 posted on 09/19/2012 10:53:47 AM PDT by ontap
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To: Emperor Palpatine

-— Yes, I believe in the survival of the fittest.——

I don’t, but as a matter of fact, the welfare state is coming to an end.

I look forward to the return of clans, or multi-generational families living under one roof.

Walton’s-style living has many advantages, the most important public reason being its power to resist the State.

The Fabians facillitated the abandonment of the elderly through SS, the separation of children from grandparent and parental wisdom through compulsory schooling, and the alienation of fathers through welfare and no-fault divorce.

But, like all satanic conspiracies, this one has reached its disastrous end.

Now, let a thousand well-armed clans bloom!


38 posted on 09/19/2012 10:55:44 AM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas (Viva Christo Rey!)
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To: ontap

You are right, Obama will easily win the 35 and under vote, but the 65 and older, Social Security vote will make up for those leftists that make up the under 35 crowd, by voting against him by an even larger margin, than in 2008.

We would be lost without the social security voters.


39 posted on 09/19/2012 10:58:22 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12

We were the biggest thorn in his side in ‘08 and will be even bigger this year. If he is re-elcted they can’t blame us.


40 posted on 09/19/2012 11:01:46 AM PDT by ontap
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To: ontap

Without the under 35 crowd, the right would own this country.


41 posted on 09/19/2012 11:06:38 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: ansel12

To hear them tell it we’re the problem because we want to collect what we were forced to pay into!!!


42 posted on 09/19/2012 11:09:52 AM PDT by ontap
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To: ansel12


43 posted on 09/19/2012 11:11:16 AM PDT by timestax (Why not drug tests for the President AND all White Hut staff ? ? ?)
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To: ansel12

Exactly. The basic problem with Romney’s statement is that it was broad verging on outright incorrect. White Christians outside of the Northeast vote majority Republican far down into the net tax-recipient income range. Asian and Jews pay tend to pay high taxes and overwhelmingly vote Democrat anyway. It was true only with respect to the minority position in a demographic: find a white Christian in Texas who votes Democrat, and it’s very likely he’s lower income. Find a Jew or African American who votes Republican, he’s likely to be well off.


44 posted on 09/19/2012 11:14:44 AM PDT by only1percent
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To: ontap

I’ve invested in things, too.

And lost money.

It happens. Deal with it. SS is a Ponzi scheme and ultimately unsustainable.

Someone’s going to have to lose.

It ain’t gonna be me. Concert artists are set for life by their early 30’s.

I’m 53......and still getting my fees before I take the first step onstage.


45 posted on 09/19/2012 11:14:53 AM PDT by Emperor Palpatine ("On the ascent of Olympus, what's a botched bar or two?" -Artur Schnabel)
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To: timestax

If you are going to post that picture everywhere, over and over, and over, why not reduce it all a little?


46 posted on 09/19/2012 11:15:04 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: Emperor Palpatine
So you're self employed?
47 posted on 09/19/2012 11:16:39 AM PDT by ontap
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To: only1percent

Correct, there is no 47%, that it why it is being defined in so many diverse, contradictory ways, it has no definition.

It is just another phrase that people absorb and work into every conversation, Romney revealed yet again that he is clueless about America, and the American people, the American voters, American politics, he showed himself as a surface skimmer again, shallow absorbsion, and mimicking, with no comprehension or personal input.


48 posted on 09/19/2012 11:27:07 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: ontap

If you’d bother to check my homepage you’d see what I do for a living.

Oh, I conduct, too. This November I’m conducting Beethoven’s “Fidelio” in Austria.....Fun opera. Basic plot...girl dresses as man to bust boyfriend out of jail.....


49 posted on 09/19/2012 11:29:12 AM PDT by Emperor Palpatine ("On the ascent of Olympus, what's a botched bar or two?" -Artur Schnabel)
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To: Emperor Palpatine

That’s great…as talented as you are you’re probably paying the max and being self employed your pay twice as much. Thanks! Oh! I just remembered since you think people should pay in and then get screwed I think they should mean test SS and not give you anything…You obviously don’t need it...and don’t want it...win!!win!!


50 posted on 09/19/2012 11:31:54 AM PDT by ontap
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