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Newspaper Ad Revenues Collapse to 1950 Levels
Breitbart ^ | September 18, 2012 | John Nolte

Posted on 09/19/2012 7:11:36 AM PDT by all the best

There are three important things to keep in mind when looking at this gorgeous graph:

1. The graph is adjusted for inflation.

2. The red line accounts for online ad revenue.

3. The end began with the rise of the online blog.

Sometimes it doesn’t feel like we're winning, because the corrupt media still has the power to create its own reality – to create the illusion that they're everywhere and still quite capable of manipulating opinion, facts, and the truth.

But this graph proves that we're the ones who are winning and on two fronts. First off, the business model of being shameless left-wing shills when alternative and honest opinion is available online just isn't working. Secondly, as we've seen this election year, the corrupt media is more desperate to hold on to its narrative and political power than to fix its business problems. This means that in competition with the New Media, Old Media is forced to quadruple down on the appalling behavior that's driving customers away.

These cretins deserve to be put out of business and relegated to the ash heap of shame. This means we can't allow ourselves to be psyched out by what looks like impossible odds against implacable dominance. We have to keep fighting and pushing until the Washington Post, New York Times, L.A. Times, Boston Globe, and the rest cease to exist.

You know, for America.

These entities can't sustain themselves forever, and the harder we fight to force the truth out there, the more the media is forced to further disgrace and expose themselves to protect their lies. This is a win-win for us.

Something else to make you feel better: The media is putting everything they have into destroying Mitt Romney, and he could still win this thing.

(Excerpt) Read more at breitbart.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: media; newspapers
They are all so anti-business they should be thrilled about their demise.
1 posted on 09/19/2012 7:11:41 AM PDT by all the best
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To: all the best

TOO BIG TO FAIL!


2 posted on 09/19/2012 7:13:02 AM PDT by EGPWS (Trust in God, question everyone else)
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To: EGPWS

good


3 posted on 09/19/2012 7:16:03 AM PDT by hecht (restore Hetch-Hetchy, and screw San Francisco and Pelosi)
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To: all the best

All the Pravda’s can go down with their boy, Hussein.


4 posted on 09/19/2012 7:18:49 AM PDT by safetysign
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To: all the best
Newspaper Ad Revenues Collapse to 1950 Levels

See! There is some good news in newspapers.

5 posted on 09/19/2012 7:20:03 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot

There are quite a few “big city” papers that would be pleased to have the income they had in 1950.


6 posted on 09/19/2012 7:22:00 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (I didn't post this. Someone else did.)
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To: all the best

What’s funny about this, is that these papers saw nothing wrong with killing off business or at least employment to 1950s levels. Okay, so who’s left to purchase their adds space? Who’s left to purchase their papers?

LMAO

May the management of these rags rot in hell with the Pres__ent Resident.


7 posted on 09/19/2012 7:27:03 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Imagine how bad these global protests would be, if Obama hadn't won us so many new friends.)
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To: all the best
Needed for a full discussion here:


8 posted on 09/19/2012 7:30:42 AM PDT by Rudder
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

I’m sure their plans now are to get a Fed subsidy and help themselves to the taxpayer funded government trough.


9 posted on 09/19/2012 7:31:13 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: all the best

They should be happy. They have spent their careers parroting the anti-freedom agenda and now they see its result first hand.


10 posted on 09/19/2012 7:33:53 AM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: DoughtyOne
May the management of these rags rot in hell with the Pres__ent Resident.

May they ALL rot, there are no good guys in the MSM.

11 posted on 09/19/2012 7:34:23 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: Navy Patriot; abb

There were proposals a few years ago for a federal newspaper voucher for every American.

Idiocy.

I am sure they would have included a proviso to keep millions of us subscribing to the WASHINGTON TIMES or something like it.


12 posted on 09/19/2012 7:36:51 AM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Navy Patriot

It wouldn’t surprise me at all.


13 posted on 09/19/2012 7:36:58 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (I didn't post this. Someone else did.)
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To: all the best; All
We need a tax on Newsprint.

Newspapers are dirty, and bad for the environment.

Newspapers kill trees!

Newspapers require lots of trucks to haul lumber, paper and Newspapers.

Again, TAX NEWSPRINT!

(Of course, you can run a Newspaper if you want to, but you will go bankrupt!)

14 posted on 09/19/2012 7:40:53 AM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Rudder

I am mighty proud to see this. I also hope that former subscribers and purchasers will become knowledgeable about how one can go online to most any of their favorite stores and outlets and get coupons to print out to save them the same amount they’d get even in buying that big Sunday newspaper. Kroger is a store that will allow you to tag coupons that automatically register when you check out with your store key....

These print media are nothing but ghouls and Democrat shills; they need to be crushed by boycott of their profit source.


15 posted on 09/19/2012 7:48:29 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Kansas58

damned straight. Make them pay the same kinds of taxes OBAMA wants to enslave the coal industry with - make it too expensive - drive them out of existence.


16 posted on 09/19/2012 7:50:09 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Rudder

Looks like the media fell off their own “fiscal cliff” about the time Obama stepped into the Offal Office.


17 posted on 09/19/2012 7:55:04 AM PDT by The Duke
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To: Eric in the Ozarks; Navy Patriot; all the best; Kansas58; abb; Morgana; cripplecreek; ShadowAce

Yes, a few years ago I attempted to take online classes... and one of the things we were to write about was whether the government should issue newspaper vouchers to people to subsidize the industry.

I just found my response, or an early draft of my response:

Thesis statement:
I do not think the government should provide funding for newspapers because they will be replaced by more efficient industries and should not be propped up.

They are all going to die. There is no real question that the daily newspaper, as we have come to know it, is withering on the vine. Circulation is as low as 1965 even though the population is much higher today than it was then. The industry and some observers have called for a newspaper “bail out” of some type from the federal government. I do not think the government should provide funding for newspapers because they will be replaced by more efficient industries and should not be propped up.

The newspaper industry is dying, that is the general perception. One of the questions that has come up is ‘should the government fund or support the newspaper industry’ in some way? Several ideas have been fielded but the general consensus is that it is not going to happen. This, in my view, would be a good thing for several reasons.

The main reason advertising revenue is dropping (Chittum, 2009) is because fewer and fewer people buy newspapers in this country. Many of those who buy or subscribe to the newspaper do not read much more than the sports or entertainment sections. Very few people seem to buy the newspaper to read the news.

The Kindle and other handheld electronic devices could spell the end of the daily printed newspaper in little more than a decade at the present rate. The news is available for free online from hundreds of sources around the world. Even if dozens of major newspapers put their online content behind a “pay wall” there are always many other free sources.

Newspapers have found charging for their online content to be a tough challenge but there are still plans to continue. Media baron Rupert Murdoch (Bloomberg, 2009) and the New York Times (CBS, 2010) newspaper are two leading industry giants with plans to make people pay for online news.

The Long Island Newsday launched such a project, giving print subscribers and subscribers to the local cable franchise (same owner) free access while charging others. After 3 months there were reportedly only 35 ‘others’ who willingly paid (Koblin, 2010) for the online content.

Ideas from government vouchers for people to pay for news or art/music, a subsidy in other words to direct funding of newspapers by the government have been proposed. The plan put forward by Dean Baker of the Center for Economic and Policy Research would give each American $100 to support “creativity”.

United States Senator Cardin (Cardin, 2009) even introduced a bill that would allow newspapers to become non-profit entities even while allowing them to sell advertising.
But can a nonprofit newspaper (Vanacore, 2010, January 17) be counted on to actually report on government without being worried about losing its non-profit status?

Or maybe they should go ahead and give it a shot without waiting for the government to throw them a bone. Maybe readers will be able to trust it not to wag its tail for political favors? In some small communities (AP, 2005) it could very well be possible that people will want to voluntarily support a local publication.

So, why should we let this happen? Why should government not get involved to help newspapers stay in business?
The main reason is that government support and financing of the newspaper industry will slow down or even halt the evolution and improvement of the journalism industry. If government had decided to support the horse and wagon industry with major funding what would the transportation system of this country look like today?

It would be an artificial bubble economy that would create mal-investments and steer money away from its better uses or potential investments and innovations. It would make more economical sense for the New York Times to buy all of its paying readers a Kindle and cease printing on paper. Why would we want the government to step in and support the things that make no financial sense? What kind of mess would that lead to?

Government funding of newspapers in whatever form will simply be diverting resources away from newer technologies to prop up a failed business model. This will create mal-investment as it disfigures the market with protectionism. It also calls into question the freedom of the press as it would favor government-approved newspapers over those that are not.

We do not yet know if the Kindle or another hand held technology will become the prime news delivery vehicle in the future and we do not yet know how to make money doing it. We do know that any industry must adapt to changing dynamics and not simply call for protection against the future. Change is inevitable in all industries; cars don’t come with buggy whips after all.

References:

Chittum, Ryan (August, 2009) Newspaper Ad Revenues at 1965 Levels, Columbia Journalism Review. Retrieved January 30, 2010

Murdoch Demands Pay for Content (2009, Dec 1) Bloomberg. Retrieved January 30, 2010

Behind the New York Times Pay Wall (2010, January 25). CBS News Retrieved January 30, 2010

Koblin, John (2010, January 26) After 3 months, only 35 subscriptions for Newsday. New York Observer

Baker, Dean (2003, November) The Artistic Freedom Voucher. An Internet Age Alternative to Copyrights. Center for Economic and Policy Research.

Sen. Cardin, 2009 bill introduced to US Senate. Retrieved January 30 from http://cardin.senate.gov/pdfs/newspaperbill.pdf

Vanacore, Andrew (2010, January 17) Can newspaper muckraking carryon in nonprofits?, Associated Press, via San Francisco Chronicle. Retrieved January 30, 2010
AP (2005) retrieved from http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1001525768


18 posted on 09/19/2012 8:01:47 AM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Navy Patriot
I don't use MSM any longer. To me it's just a branch of the DNC.

I reference it as the DNCp, for propagandists.

And you're probably right. I like to think that the guys in the print area are just doing their jobs, but they're all contributing to misleading the citizens of our nation.

19 posted on 09/19/2012 8:04:22 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Imagine how bad these global protests would be, if Obama hadn't won us so many new friends.)
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To: Gaffer

You could just scan the coupon off the Iphone or Tablet at the checkout counter!


20 posted on 09/19/2012 8:10:21 AM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Gaffer

Craigslist and eBay killed newspaper classified advertising.

Websites such as Realtor.com, Zillow, Trulia, and real estate agency websites dramatically reduced real estate advertising.

Dealer websites reduced auto advertising.

Retail websites reduced store advertising.

The absence of content meaningful to subscribers reduced circulation. The readers moved to the Internet or broadcast for news.

Arrogance and lack of vision prevented publishers from changing their content and business models in response to the environmental shifts. Like dinosaurs, they are dying.

Glen Beck gets it and is using new media to construct a new business model to create a conservative media company. Breitbart also got it and was on his way before his early death. If conservatives can capture and dominate the new media, the battle for the hearts and soul of the American people will become even more competitive. The question is how, other than home schooling, we do the same for education?


21 posted on 09/19/2012 8:11:50 AM PDT by Soul of the South
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To: GeronL

That also. The point is to take the credit away from newspapers because they are by-and-large Democrat shills. The very few conservative ones will just have to figure out how to work in the new electronic media age.


22 posted on 09/19/2012 8:13:17 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Gaffer

true

Although I don’t know of any actual conservative ones besides the Wash Times. There are some with conservative editorials but 90% of the paper is AP/NY Times/Wash Post/wire copy.


23 posted on 09/19/2012 8:15:20 AM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Rudder

the fact that it is online top line too is stunning

it’s obviously mostly due to content

and US population in 1950 was 152 million.

today it’s 315,000,000


24 posted on 09/19/2012 8:15:51 AM PDT by wardaddy (this is a perfect window for Netanyahu to bomb Iran..I hereby give my go ahead..thanks Muzzie idiots)
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To: DoughtyOne

“I don’t use MSM any longer.”

They make my stomach hurt and my head explode so I avoid things that are harmful to my health.


25 posted on 09/19/2012 8:16:08 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: Soul of the South
Craigslist and eBay killed newspaper classified advertising.

I agree they have cut into the discretional user margin, but they have not in the Sunday paper market - those that are generally older and used to scanning all the circulars on Sunday.

For the electronic consumer, the order of the day should be to use electronic facsimiles instead of paper, or just use store coupons....anything but newspaper delivered coupons. These Democrat print-media dinosaurs need to be driven out of business.

26 posted on 09/19/2012 8:17:54 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: GeronL

I used to subscribe to the W Times weekly.....might do so again....I certainly read them online. ONLY that one, though.....I also cannot think of any traditional print media publisher I trust besides them. For certain, there are NO publishers here in Georgia that I’d give money to. The AJC are nothing but a bunch of race-baiting, Democrat shills, period.


27 posted on 09/19/2012 8:21:21 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: wardaddy

the red line is revenue WITH online added


28 posted on 09/19/2012 8:22:38 AM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Gaffer
These Democrat print-media dinosaurs need to be driven out of business.

I'm doing my part...haven't purchased a newspaper in years and years. I still see a few elderly folks in the area shuffling out to the paper tube every morning for their daily dose of propaganda...most of them are known Demorats.

Go figure. :-)

29 posted on 09/19/2012 8:28:24 AM PDT by who knows what evil? (G-d saved more animals than people on the ark...www.siameserescue.org.)
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To: Navy Patriot

That may already be whats happening.

They have been particularly intense partisans this year because I believe many of these are being subsidized under the table as a form of hidden campaign contributions. The NY Times for instance had its bailout by Carlos Slim, who I’m sure was looking for a benefit from another quarter. A favor for a friend, to be repaid by another friend. No doubt there was a quid pro quo as far as the expected behavior of the Times.

The same goes for broadcast news organizations, which have been money losers for a long time.

In the past newspapers were (mostly) independent businesses or units of a conglomerate that were expected to make profits. They had an overriding interest in selling copies and keeping advertisers happy.

Now that they can’t make it anymore as businesses, they have become purely political instruments.


30 posted on 09/19/2012 8:28:33 AM PDT by buwaya
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To: GeronL

You’ve given more thought to this subject than anyone else on these pages.

My observation is that big city newspapers target the people who remain after the higher income folks move to the suburbs. Inner city people are less educated, have less money and can’t be bothered to read a daily newspaper.

In other words, the big cities killed off the big city dailies.


31 posted on 09/19/2012 8:28:51 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (I didn't post this. Someone else did.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

My “essay” was written for an online class a few years ago, they were already pushing that meme back then.

The liberal papers encouraged policies that drove away their customers and put their advertisers out of business.

great work. lol.


32 posted on 09/19/2012 8:35:07 AM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: buwaya

With the legal requirement that cities and counties and such have to publish notices in a print publication, we will likely see tiny weeklies survive serving only a tiny number of people interested in such things; lawyers, politicos, insiders, businesses wanting government contracts and stuff.

Sort of what tiny newspapers were doing a hundred and fifty years or so ago. UK governments used to (still do?) print their own “Gazettes” with nothing but official notices, laws passed and stuff like that


33 posted on 09/19/2012 8:39:46 AM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: all the best

Any business that advertises with a media outlet that is anti-business and is covering-up for the incompetence of this administration, has management that is not exercising due diligence with the stockholder’s hard-earned money. Management that behaves in this manner should be dismissed.


34 posted on 09/19/2012 8:42:55 AM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
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To: kcvl

LOL


35 posted on 09/19/2012 9:21:28 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Imagine how bad these global protests would be, if Obama hadn't won us so many new friends.)
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To: kcvl
BTW: I agree. Here I was referencing the term "MSM" though.

To me it's just the DNCpropagandist wing

36 posted on 09/19/2012 9:22:55 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Imagine how bad these global protests would be, if Obama hadn't won us so many new friends.)
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To: GeronL
Outside funding creates the wrong incentives for newspapers.

My local paper is owned by a nonprofit organization - that ownership allows the paper to ignore citizen subscribers, the politics of small business that buy advertising, and the community in general. Not totally... but enough that it stops feeling like 'our paper'.

When a paper isn't part of the community - when they're so separated from their subscribers by age, class, values, concepts of fairness - they cease being useful for citizens. Well, beyond the obvious 'seeing what's on sale' or 'at the movies'.... things the Internet can and will continue to do better.

When a paper stops fighting for the respect and trust of their subscribers and turns their attention to how they're seen in 'the world of publishing' everything changes.

I know you understand this - from your comments Geron... but for others..

Think of a newspaper as if it's a toaster factory. The factory earns money by selling toasters to the city. When Suzy calls and complains her toaster's burning the toast, they care. Quality control is called - citizens are polled - if there's a production problem, it's changed. Natural healthy incentives keeping the system going.

Time goes by - all the toaster factories get bought out - each city has one toaster factory. And they're making money hand over fist... ( in the recent past this was true - relative to other industries - newspapers were little money making machines). Now the toaster factory hires from outside the area - they're looking for STAR POWER - young people out of places like Indiana - young people who can design toasters for the gods. Committees within the Toaster industry set up systems of prizes - prizes for the most elegant toasters. The best and brightest compete on such rarefied levels - beyond mere mortals ... amazing - beautiful ... toasters.

They ARE stars.

They DO SUCK LESS - an insider joke about how superior they are...suck less... so cute.

Again, Suzy calls and says - 'the toaster is beautiful but I don't need or want a toaster with eight slots that's connected to my computer and starts the coffee pot..." They're polite - but laugh about one of 'the crazies' calling.

We watch them - the boys at the New York Times - or the Tampa Bay Times - and we plead with them to consider us - they don't - and slowly we stop buying toasters. We toast bread on a cast iron skillet while hearing their self serving excuses about why the toaster factory's not making money - mixed with contempt for us. Contempt for people who don't understand their 'oh so wonderful' toasters with the elegant, award winning Pulitzer designs... and an industry dies.

37 posted on 09/19/2012 9:25:03 AM PDT by GOPJ (first they came for those clinging to their guns and religion, and I did not speak out....)
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To: DoughtyOne

Exactly!

They make me sick. They are channeling their feelings for what they think I believe which is totally opposite of what they think.


38 posted on 09/19/2012 9:31:49 AM PDT by kcvl
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To: Eric in the Ozarks; all the best; EGPWS; hecht; safetysign; Navy Patriot; DoughtyOne; Rudder; ...
Outside funding creates the wrong incentives for newspapers.

When a paper isn't part of the community - when incentives separate them from their subscribers by age, class, values, and concepts of fairness - they cease being useful for citizens. Well, beyond the obvious 'seeing what's on sale' or 'at the movies'.... things the Internet can and will continue to do better.

When a paper stops fighting for the respect and trust of their subscribers and turns their attention to how they're seen in 'the world of publishing' everything changes.

Think of a newspaper as if it's a toaster factory. The factory earns money by selling toasters to the city. When Suzy calls and complains her toaster's burning the toast, they care. Quality control is called - citizens are polled - if there's a production problem, it's changed. Natural healthy incentives keeping the system going.

Time goes by - all the toaster factories get bought out - each city has one toaster factory. And they're making money hand over fist... ( in the recent past this was true - relative to other industries - newspapers were little money making machines). Now the toaster factory hires from outside the area - they're looking for STAR POWER - young people out of places like Indiana - young people who can design toasters for the gods. Committees within the Toaster industry set up systems of prizes - prizes for the most elegant toasters. The best and brightest compete on such rarefied levels - beyond mere mortals ... amazing - beautiful ... toasters.

They ARE stars.

They DO SUCK LESS - an insider joke about how superior they are...suck less... so cute.

Again, Suzy calls and says - 'the toaster is beautiful but I don't need or want a toaster with eight slots that's connected to my computer and starts the coffee pot..." They're polite - but laugh about one of 'the crazies' calling.

We watch them - the boys at the New York Times - or the Tampa Bay Times - and we plead with them to consider us - they don't - and slowly we stop buying toasters. We toast bread on a cast iron skillet while hearing their self serving excuses about why the toaster factory's not making money - mixed with contempt for us. Contempt for people who don't understand their 'oh so wonderful' toasters with the elegant, award winning Pulitzer designs... and an industry dies.

39 posted on 09/19/2012 9:34:39 AM PDT by GOPJ (first they came for those clinging to their guns and religion, and I did not speak out....)
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To: GOPJ
Creative destruction.
40 posted on 09/19/2012 9:50:25 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (I didn't post this. Someone else did.)
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To: kcvl

Thanks KCVL.


41 posted on 09/19/2012 10:08:10 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Imagine how bad these global protests would be, if Obama hadn't won us so many new friends.)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
Creative destruction.

I hate it when people - people like you Eric - can say in two words what it would take me 6 paragraphs to say...

I'll get over it. :)

42 posted on 09/19/2012 10:08:10 AM PDT by GOPJ (first they came for those clinging to their guns and religion, and I did not speak out....)
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To: GOPJ

Learned the lingo at a small oil company based in Wichita...


43 posted on 09/19/2012 10:28:35 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks (I didn't post this. Someone else did.)
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To: GOPJ

That arguably WAS the case a few years ago - a good friend of mine was in a graduate journalism program at a top university in the late 1980’s, and worked for a time as a producer for a broadcast news station, and his stories attest to the truth of the state of the profession at that time.

However, now things have changed.

It is no longer the case of an industry grown effete and disconnected, it is now a case of an industry that can’t stay alive and knows it, and is just putting off the last day.

They are now political not because they want to be (which they always wanted to be of course, but it was not a requirement for survival), but because they are being paid to be, and still exist, for the moment, only for that purpose.


44 posted on 09/19/2012 10:40:58 AM PDT by buwaya
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To: The Duke
...the media fell off their own “fiscal cliff” about the time Obama stepped into the Offal Office.

A well-earned and well-deserved decline.

45 posted on 09/19/2012 11:07:41 AM PDT by Rudder
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To: GOPJ

I think you are right on the money with that


46 posted on 09/19/2012 11:51:01 AM PDT by GeronL (The Right to Life came before the Right to Pursue Happiness)
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To: Rudder
I heard the other day that movie receipts are down 20% from last year as well. More justice!

Folks gots to save money to buy guns and ammo in Obama's America, it seems.

47 posted on 09/19/2012 12:53:09 PM PDT by The Duke
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To: GOPJ
Creative destruction-- a phrase coined by economist Joseph Schumpeter in his 1942 book on the functioning of capitalism. Widely referenced throughout the economics community.

Don't feel so bad. He got famous for it.

48 posted on 09/19/2012 2:21:08 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: buwaya
It is no longer the case of an industry grown effete and disconnected, it is now a case of an industry that can’t stay alive and knows it, and is just putting off the last day.

Yes, you're right - but they're still making one bad decision after another. Rather than being a 'general circulation' newspaper in response to declining subscriptions, they downsize their writers. General circulation means that people like me - conservatives are included.

Back to my toaster factory example... The toaster factory has fewer and fewer orders for their exquisitely designed prize winning toasters. The toaster are catching fire and people are not buying them... So the toaster factory - not wanting to give up the glitz part of their business, decides to 'let go' half their work force. The half that's actually producing... and to double down on more prize winning designs....

49 posted on 09/19/2012 8:09:08 PM PDT by GOPJ (first they came for those clinging to their guns and religion, and I did not speak out....)
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