During the 1930s during the time the Nazis took power there were Nazi flags covering the alters of the churches in Germany as Bohnhoeffer reported and rejected. Stop kidding yourself.
Posted on 09/22/2012 9:58:53 AM PDT by DeaconBenjamin
The Catholic Church in Germany is urging its followers to put their money where their faith is. Under a new rule, anyone who doesn’t pay church tax will no longer be considered a member of the flock.
Catholics who decide to skip the tax will be unable to receive Communion, be confirmed or go to confession, Die Welt newspaper wrote on Thursday. The rule, which takes effect on September 24, also bars non-payers from becoming godparents or belonging to a Catholic congregation.
Critics have argued that believers can still count themselves as members of the Catholic community and practice their faith without paying the church tax – which amounts to 8 or 9 percent of a person’s income, depending on the state.
A “general decree” published on Thursday by the German Bishops Conference says church-leavers have violated their obligation to make a “financial contribution that allows the church to fulfill its role.”
Die Welt reported that Pope Benedict XVI personally approved the document, which puts an end to months of wrangling over the issue.
Couples can receive an exemption to be married in the church, as long as they pledge to maintain their faith and raise their children as Catholics. But the powers that be can deny church tax dodgers a Catholic burial “if the person who has left the church has not shown any sign of remorse before death.”
Though the bishops’ text avoids the word “excommunication,” the consequences of the all-or-nothing rule are essentially the same.
If a Catholic notifies the registry office that he has chosen to renounce his faith, thereby allowing him to stop paying church tax, he will receive a letter from a priest that includes a list detailing the consequences of his decision – and an offer to meet for “reconciliation” talks.
More than 100,000 people have left the Catholic Church in Germany each year since 1990 – with more than 126,000 deciding to part ways with the church last year.
I’ve tried and haven’t been able to find out how Protestants enforce it.
I have learned there’s a formal legal process required, the call it ‘leaving the church’ to declare you are not a member, and another one to rejoin that involves the churches.
But I don’t know what the Protestants do when a member legally leaves their church and stops paying.
Well I would imagine that this story is a crock of feces.
Every one of those Protestant churches are members of the National Council of Churches or World Council or both. Liberals.... every one of them!
Just an FYI
People want the church to be there for them at all the “big” events in their lives, marriage, births/baptisms, death, but don’t want to be bothered in their day to day lives.
I don’t understand those people who complain about giving money to the church to support the clergy and buildings. I guess they have forgotten that everything they have belongs to God.
I don't know, but observe that the matter stands differently with the Protestants:
1. There is no single Protestant body, and often no authority above the local pastor. The pastor asks you to leave, you find another Protestant community of faith. For that reason there is no "excommunication" from the Protestant Church in general.
2. Protestantism emphasizes belonging to the body of Christians through profession of faith in Jesus Christ. "Works" -- including support of the physical plant of the church and the ministers -- are considered a desirable fruit of the faith, but not an instrument in the ongoing process of salvation. It is easy to justify avoiding the collection with that kind of moral theology.
3. Protestantism does not consider the sacred rites of the Church important, and in fact they have but analogues of most Catholic rites, therefore interdict of Protestant communion, confessions, baptisms, weddings and burials simply does not frighten the Protestant flock all that much.
In Germany there has been a long tradition of a “church tax” which pre-dates government income tax.
The Church used to assign a amount you owed, according to your income, and they would collect it themselves. This was in both Protestant and Roman Catholic regions of Germany (which are actually different states).
Of course to most American Christians this seems odd—as few churches here handle pledges that way. Some do, however, and I’ve even heard of synagogues that will charge a membership fee—according to the size of your family (and perhaps income too)...so its the same idea.
When a national income tax began, in the typical German orderly fashion, it was suggested that the tax collectors for the State and the Church be combined (no 1st Amendment separation there, mind you), and the government collect both income taxes along with Church donations (the “Church tax”). Since at the time 95%+ of Germans were baptized either Protestant (usually Lutheran) or Roman Catholic—this assured a steady income for the churces and seminaries—of which there were (and are) many.
Of course today, as someone mentioned above, very (very) few Germans attend Church more than twice a year (Christmas and maybe Easter)...only about 4% or less attend more than 4 times a year. Still, nobody wants to see the churches fall down—and pastors to be unemployed, and the renowned seminaries to close...so traditionally secular Germans keep paying the Church tax—as it is taken along with their regular income tax...so they never see it.
In recent years though, a form is available to exempt oneself from the “church tax.” As I understand it, this form basically requires the person to sign that they renounce their faith...and therefore should no longer be required to pay the Church tax.
The policy by the Roman Catholic church mentioned not to allow the privileges of Church membership to those who have formally renounced their membership (to avoid the tax) seems pretty fair by me.
We must keep in mind in Germany—its a very different culture—and a person has to have formally renounced their faith, in writing...to avoid the Church tax.
(See my comments above. All Christians in Germany pay a “Church tax,” along with their regular government income taxes, which goes to their respective denomination.)
I can’t imagine you’re referring to the Catholic Church; they have famous sermons that were read from the pulpits (written by Pius XI) that warned of Nazism.
Hitler had no use for the Church (for the same reason the French revolutionaries and the Bolsheviks didn’t); it was a competing authority.
I guess, if they pay the tax, then they can confess that they didn’t used to pay it, if they don’t pay, then they can’t confess the non-payment.
There must be some American type Christianity over there that is fighting this.
How so? That this tax is not collected, or that the Roman Catholic Church is not adopting this policy in Germany?
During the 1930s during the time the Nazis took power there were Nazi flags covering the alters of the churches in Germany as Bohnhoeffer reported and rejected. Stop kidding yourself.
Calling in the troops, eh?Nope, just pinging people who may have an interest in this odd story. tumblindice wrote:
Well, let’s see you square this circle: The Catholic church and its members actively assisting in infanticide in this country which guarantees “life (liberty and property)”.What bizarro claim are you making? tumblindice wrote:
We find a single cell somewhere millions of miles, or light-years, away and that’s `life.’ But a viable fetus isn’t “life” down the street at the abortion clinic.Again, what oddball claim are you tring to make here? tumblindice wrote:
Go ahead, make my day.You ain't no Clint Eastwood buckwheat, trust me. But you might think about getting help, you appear to be in real need.
The pastors who covered their alters with the Nazi flag were Lutheran, by the by, as you can find out with a bare minimum of research.
The German Church bowed to the government in the 1930’s.The German PROTESTANT Church bowed to the government in the 1930’s.
The so-called Roman salute is practiced in Catholic Churches today, in America as well as in Germany and all over the world. I gave that salute many times myself, most recently, in all likelihood, last Easter, and look forward giving it again.
That the Nazis injected a patriotic or even partisan meaning into it does not mean everyone exchanging it was a Nazi, or could predict that it would have a sinister associations a decade later.
All churches bowed to Hitler. They did not stand and say no. Like the churches of the United States have bowed to the IRS.
Less than you knew, gramps.
Actually the Catholic Church did say no on a number of occasions.
There were three religious bodies which distinguished themselves in opposition to the Nazis:
1) The Catholic Church
2) The Swedish Lutheran Church (in Northern Germany especially).
3) The Jehovah’s Witnesses - who resist every government really.
I believe this story is bogus. There is no Catholic teaching that would allow this and deny Communion or confession for this sort of thing..
If a Bishop is endorsing such a thing He will be excommunicated
If the German government is calling for this then every Catholic Church in Germany is bound to ignore this.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.