Skip to comments.I am (Not) the 47% ( I did not choose my tax bracket )
Posted on 09/28/2012 9:34:47 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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I have a couple nearly lifelong acquaintances who are bitter, venomous lefties. They spit when they say Bush and they sneer and practically foam when they say Palin.
They hate Romney worse than Achmadinejad.
They work hard and have raised and sent kids off to college, but I don’t know how much of their tuition they cover. He owns and operates an outdoor-based business and she is self-employed and puts on events often (not always) involving rich Hollywood folks.
They have a home in town and a business building, along with a couple shop-type structures. They have a small second home which was purchased as a hunting base but is now rented out (for good money) to oilfield workers. They have a third stucco home (couple bedrooms, garage, yard, fence, very nice) down in the southwest, purchased just last year as a getaway place, and they are in the process of purchasing another (very basic) hunting cabin in another state.
They work hard and have made smart moves. But they depend heavily on (and value very much) the EPA, Forest Service, US Fish & Wildlife and the Ag Department, and other federal agencies (DOT, DOD and so on) as do we all.
They don’t pay federal income tax. They write off everything they possibly can. They don’t pay for the federal government services they depend on. They hate the candidates that I tend to support, they hate anyone with money unless that person is a leftwinger, they despise people like me who pay their federal tax bill for them and have the temerity to wonder why.
Are they moochers? Tell you what-—they think Obamacare is great, they think Obamaphones are funny, they think the poor and nonwhite are deserving of something extra, they think the “rich” have it coming, they secretly think I’m a sucker and that I probably cheat my country just as they do because “everybody does.” They do not care where federal money goes (unless it was one of George Bush’s wars) and they are quite sure Obama will bring an end to dependence on oil (not foreign oil—OIL) within the next several years.
Are they moochers? You tell me. They are far from alone, I’ll tell you that.
Yes I believe the store owner has the right to do what he wants in his store. If he wants to give away free candy that is his choice. If he does not want people eating his candy without paying he can file charges of theft. If I did not like the fact that he charges more because he gives away candy I would shop some where else. The cop cannot stop people from eating free candy the store owner has the right to make that decision.
Your desire to raise taxes is the wrong idea, your entire clinging to the ridiculous idea of a neat little 47% is wrong.
I almost wonder if your income group was one that voted for Obama.
It’s a provable number as a generic tent.
You fall into that tent. Are a moocher? Doesn’t sound like it but, how do we discern what the actual percentage is, in your group, who are doing just fine without government freebies.
The salient point is there are many others in your group who demanding that the 53% who do pay federal income tax are under constant assault “To Pay Their Fair Share”.
That means we actually contribute, today, to the Federal income tax scheme either through direct work or capital gains.
I reminded of a time when I was driving to Atlanta and as I drove the Natchez area of Missouri seeing all these “Shanty Houses”. I mean, they used paper and other scrap material to cover their houses where, I guess, the home needed repair.
I thought “Geeze, this is America. No reason anyone should live like that and no need for all these outhouses in an entire neighborhood”.
I’m also thinking, at the time, “Hell, we have all these welfare programs that could really help them”.
So I stopped one day and asked a fella who was doing something in his yard “Hey, could I ask you a question?”.
Old man smiled and said “Sure”.
“I’m not trying to be rude but we have a lot of government programs, welfare and such and you could live in a much nicer place. Have you ever considered asking for something that might help? We do pay taxes so you can get these things.”
He smiled and said “yep, young man, we could ask the government for a lot of things. Use to think it would make my life a littler easier. But, you see this home and the dirt here have been in my family three generations. Same as most of the people on this street. If we ask the government for anything then they’ll take this away because the home away so I can get from them what I make anyway”.
“No, this is my family’s home and I’ll pass it to my son. But, I make enough and don’t really need more”.
“When you take from the devil there’s all kinds of things that happen that you didn’t think about and ain’t none of them good”
“Pride in one’s work and keeping busy are good for your character and your soul”.
So I smiled understanding this man’s ethos, thanked him for sharing and left knowing that indeed, there is good in working and not being beholding to the government or anyone.
I also wondered if this man wasn’t a better man than me and if he didn’t fit the American ideal of Self Determination;
Life - lived as he saw fit without interference
Liberty - he was beholden to no one when he got through with his day, week, month and ultimately years.
Happiness - He had all he needed, was truly grateful(how you get to happiness) and God had blessed him by supplying all he needed.
To this day I admire him for he was truly a rich man.
You haven’t heard from then.
I believe everyone should pay 10% but, how do you quantify that on someone who has no income?
You can’t so the rest of pay the taxes.
I’ll go along with you on a flat tax and no deductions or credits. But the first 20 or 40 grand should be tax free. And the flat rate for income earned after that should be very low. Of course, government needs to be chopped down to a small fraction of what it currently is.
see post 16
No one I know of has suggested that the poor pay 10% income tax.
You know full well the Limbaugh line of thought is that EVERYONE pay something.
I believe that everyone SHOULD pay something. If you want to take out of the pot then you sure as hell better be putting something into the pot.
That is the problem with social security. So many people take more out then they put in.
Do you believe that someone who doesn’t contribute to society should be able to benefit from what others pay into society?
To me that sounds like liberal talk.
My landlord was an Iranian nutcase. And we are talking about an Upper East Side building, not some dump. The Iranian was also a slumlord. You couldn’t talk to that loser if you tried.
Are they Christians?
Normally I wouldn’t be concerned about their religious associations, but more and more I’m discovering many libs lack the essential value of honesty towards themselves. They no longer pay attention to the welfare of their souls but only to the plumpness of their bank accounts.
These folks do not do anything illegal, but they are not nice folks.
Frankly, the couple sounds like my cousin and her husband in Long Beach. They both have businessess and own multiple residences. They are flaming liberals. I do not talk with them, as it is like dealing with people from another planet.
Gee, I'm not sure if I am or not...why don't You tell Me
I receive a pension, SS and Medicare(b). I pay Fed and state income taxes on my pension and on part of my SS. I pay a monthly premium for my Medicare (b). I no longer pay real estate taxes (homestead exemption) but I do pay county personal property taxes. My income from SS is greater than my fed, state and county taxes combined.
Where do I fall?
Wrong, Linda. If your tax bracket is too high, all you need to do is make less money. Work less hard. Don't take risks! Because, if you lose, you lose, but if you win, the government confiscates the proceeds.
Of course, guess what that type of action does to the economy and to Linda's chances of rising out of the 47%.
That is extremely bad public policy.
>>Are they Christians?”
That’s a really smart question.
Actually they loathe anything that has to do with what they call “established religion”. They are the first to lodge protests (and this is in a small town) when the school mentions God in a play or ceremony.
I have heard hints that there were some bad experiences at the hands of clergy far in the past but that could be just Jesus-hating too.
They are not rich or flashy people, although they like to associate with them. I am forever telling one of the pair that sooner or later they will vote Republican, or at least acknowledge their conservatism, because they work very hard and run good small businesses.
I know that it is our wretched tax system in part that eases their way toward doing what they do...I’m frankly just tired of pulling the load for them and many who are far, far worse than they.
PS...that’s a NON-government pension
“Liberalism” is the political manifestation of the religion of humanism, which is, in essence, Satanism.
No, liberals aren’t “Christian” in their religious practices.
Interesting argument. Some in the "47%" voted against the redistributionists, but paying extra tax for the govt. to waste does not do any good.
Romney would like to take his 47% statement back, obviously. It may cost him votes from the right and center.
The problem is that people who don't pay don't have any qualms about raising taxes on those who do. So the result is that the tax will never be a pittance.
Mind you, people who don't pay income taxes do in fact pay taxes, they just don't always realize that they do. Raise taxes on the rich and it just gets rolled into the cost of doing business and you pay it when you buy your gallon of milk at the store. Or your gallon of gas at the pump.
So people are kidding themselves when they think they can shift the tax to the very rich because it comes right back to them either directly in the price of goods or indirectly when their brother-in-law can't find a job.
So I've usually favored a flat tax, with an amount equivalent to the minimum wage tax free. Every dollar after whatever that first amount is, taxed the same whether its $1 or $1000000. That way everyone has skin in the game when it comes to choosing a fair tax rate.
Or, alternatively, lower the income tax rate to the same as the capital gains rate. Now Romney and his secretary both pay 15%.
I don’t think you understand the difference between different kinds of taxes. SS tax is not income tax. sales tax is not income tax. Property tax is not income tax. Fuel tax is not income tax. This thread is about income taxes ONLY.