Skip to comments.Prosecutors charge woman with forging father's signature on life support documents
Posted on 09/29/2012 8:44:00 PM PDT by little jeremiah
click here to read article
We use to love and cherish our parents, now, apparently, they are just a form of income.
The rest of the story.
Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.
How many others have thus murdered their relatives? Hopefully she will be judged guilty and this will set a precedent.
Thanks for posting that link. Horrifying.
Thank you! The one I posted was very short (only one more setence at the link) and I was wondering about the rest of the story.
I just finished reading it. Serious cold chills. What an evil shrew. I wonder if she is connected with who ever shot her father and his companion. She could even receive the death penalty, I hope she does!
I believe I met this couple the day before the were shot and killed. They sat next to me while I was having a burger. They were leaving the lake to go to Florida in another day and had been out bar hopping.
The killer shot the man and then went upstairs and found the fiancé and shot her about ten times with a 25 caliber. All of us neighbors have assumed it was the daughter these last two years.
The shooting took place at the Lake of the Ozarks which is approximately a 3 hour drive from Liberty, Missouri. This double murder happened nearly two years ago. To my knowledge no arrests for the actual shooting have been made. But this charge stems,
"The case, which essentially accuses her of "death by forgery," has captivated the small Missouri community since her September arrest. Legal experts say it's a case with little, if any, precedent. "He died as a result of them removing life support, not as a result of the gunshot," Camden County prosecutor Brian Keedy said. "If you commit a felony, and somebody dies as a result, there is a criminal responsibility for that death."
I cannot help but think, while these charges are 'for real' the prosecution has not laid out all they know. Meaning they think she knows more about the shooting.
My friggin eyes!
What’s wrong with you !?
removing my brain dead mother from life support was not murder.....what a clueless fool you are
Did you forge the signature that allowed you to remove life support?
and that isn’t what the post was ...the post was about moral ABSOLUTES
and no I did not forge anything...what atrocious question
This 'story' is about a daughter that forged her father's signature so she could end his life 4 days after someone shot him. There is a moral absolute about what this gal is accused of doing. I do not see why you would find the need to make a comparison to what you needed to do versus what this woman is accused of doing.
My response was to the post about moral ABSOLUTES and the comment in that post...
troubling on multiple levels...
Where in either article did it say the man was “brain dead”? And what does “brain dead” mean? And as the comment below, did you forge your mother’s signature?
Yes, my first thought was “she probably did shoot them, or hired someone else to do it”. Considering she got some “witnesses” to the supposed doc. signing.
I hope she fries.
This is about a living man who was killed, not about removing life support from a dead body.
If your mother was dead when you had life support removed, you have nothing to feel so guilty about. If she was brain damaged and not brain dead (there is a difference), then you would have a good reason to make such a comparison, but no right to blame Little Jeremiah.
If someone pressured you into doing something you’re now having doubts about, you aren’t alone. That happens more often than most people realize. It can have devastating consequences.
I hope you can sort out your feelings over this without any more verbal assaults on innocent bystanders.
This is an argument I haven't seen prosecutors use, but they should. Actually, everyone involved in deliberately depriving the victim of life should be charged with murder.
Recall the case of Haleigh Poutre. Her adopted mother (biological aunt) and step father beat her into a coma. DSS wanted to finish the job and have her killed, but only the step-father would be charged with the murder (the adopted mother was dead by this time). At last report, Haleigh was getting rehabilitation. If DSS had killed her, the people involved should have been charged with murder, along with the step-father for his contribution to the murder.
The courts and the medical community need to recognize that removing necessary life support from a patient who benefits from it, resulting in the patient's death, is the actual cause of death. I know it seems obvious that whatever causes death is the cause of death, but the courts don't see it that way. Once a patient is deemed useless, they're fair game. Whatever caused their condition is considered the sole cause of death, even if they survive the initial injury.
If the courts recognize that removal of life support causes death, that will be a step in the right direction.
The comment that made you feel guilty/defensive for taking your mom off life support:
“How many others have thus murdered their relatives? Hopefully she will be judged guilty and this will set a precedent.”
The key words in the above comment is “THUS murdered...” That means murdered like this - with a forged document.
That statement was directed at this article and it’s circumstances and had nothing to do with your circumstances with your mom.
I hope you are not feeling defensive about what your decision with you mom. You are going to be hearing a lot of people arguing for life as obama’s death list for the handicapped and eldery activates. I hope you can separate your time and circumstances from all the uproar that is coming, Nifster.
They were going to marry, thus cutting the daughter from at least half of his estate. He was not in the “flush of youth” shall we say.
you don’t get it do you....a moral absolute is just that
I do not feel guilty. I did exactly what she asked me to do before she devolved into the state she did. I am not the one who posted a comment to give a heads up on moral absolutes
Apparently some folks don’t know what a moral absolute is
Actually I do not feel any guilt or shame. I am a proud daughter who was glad to fulfill her mother’s last requests. So go do your psychological analysis somewhere else
One does not put the title in their post of Moral Absolutes unless one feels that this has violated it. A moral absolute is just that. My comment was appropriate and had nothing to do with this case but the idiocy of just such a statement.
I HONORED my mother by doing what she wanted.....
What "state?" I thought you said she was braindead. True brain death is when there is absolutely no brain function, and the patient has died. Did you mean brain damaged?
LJ gets it. Murder is absolutely morally wrong. There are no exceptions to that. Not for Miss Van Note. Not for anyone.
I was going to say who was the killer and thinking it could be her.
Well, good for you. So you can stop whinning about your private actions with your mom on a public forum like an mental case then.
It is morally wrong to deprive anyone of life. It’s really simple.
I do not know the circumstances of your mother’s death; that is between you, her and God. But I do know that it is very odd of you to jump into this discussion which is a clear cut “right and wrong” and pound on me for...??? what I do not know.
Exactly. What an odious waste of skin. How could a daughter or son with a pinch of humanity want to kill their father for money? It sickens me.
How is this not a moral absolute. What is morally acceptable about forging your parent’s signature to get him/her killed?
It’s normal to remove life support from a dead body. There is no guilt associated with that. The problem comes when someone makes a quality of life judgement against another person, and that person loses their life as a result. That puts them in the position of having to either deny what they did or convince everyone else that what they did was right. There is one other choice, to admit they did something wrong. That can be too painful to consider. I can’t imagine the turmoil of having a hand in the death of another person.
The daughter had seen her dad spend a small fortune on his lifestyle with his girlfriend for over a decade. The impending marriage was going to allocate half of what was left to a woman she hated. In my surmise She snuck into the lake home and killed him , perhaps unplanned, but then emptied her girl-gun into the girl friend who wasn’t even a threat at that point. The GF came in upstairs while alarm was set and didn’t know that the BF was dead.
Having a hand in the death of another person has a debilitating effect on one’s sanity.
Health care workers often pressure people into these situations, without giving them all the facts. In a stressful situation, most people are easily influenced. Most people don’t give any thought to this ahead of time, so they aren’t prepared for the high pressure demands and the claim that keeping the patient alive is tantamount to torture while killing them is in their best interest. Of course they don’t use words like “ killing.” They pretty it up with flowery phrases, but it is still killing. And when the person has time to think about it later, it’s too late.
You can’t really blame someone for going bat crazy after an experience like that. They typically suffer a variation on Stockholm Syndrome. They form an emotional bond to the very people who pressured them into it. They will defend those people, while saying the most vile things about their victim. They’ll call their own parents turnips or brain dead, believing that somehow justifies having killed them.
When society passes judgement on someone else for clear cut murder, they internalize it as a judgement on their own guilt. They cannot separate their own behavior from that of the obvious murderer, because regardless of legalities, they see the two acts as morally equivalent. And who are we to say they’re wrong.
Everything you say makes sense. There is a difference between a “live” body and a “dead” body. Obviously machinery can keep certain processes going (for a short while) in a body which is dead (meaning the soul is gone). But if a body is “alive” but needs assistance to remain alive with medical help, it is wrong to remove that help. If a person insists that such help be removed and wants to die, that is another topic.
I have an old friend, I’ve told his story before; who was in a terrible car accident. His wife, from whom he was separated, immediately flew thousands of miles to be by his side. Part of his brain had been severely damaged in a bad car crash. He was on every kind of life support. They wanted her permission to turn it all off. She decided that he should be given a chance (and had to argue and stand her ground); they insisted if he survived (but that he wouldn’t!) he’d be in a coma forever, or if not, he’d be a “vegetable”.
Well, he is now walking, talking, helping around the house, taking care of the garden, and has changed so much that the wife he used to neglect terribly he is now devoted to. He personally told me that he is thankful for the accident because it changed him for the better in his relationship with God and his family. He lost his handsome good looks, much of his strength, and it is harder for him to think and express himself; but he is a wonderful human being who deserved a chance to live instead of being killed because “he would have no quality of life”.
Another old friend was on life support due to different medical problems but his wife insisted that he be properly cared for; he lived to watch his sons grow up, fathered a beautiful daughter, and is a good friend to many, and has some residual health problems.
Some people would have said that both of these men should have had the life support turned off. There was no “chance” for them.
There was a time when the public bought abortion as the removal of a piece of tissue; like a wart and not the killing of a baby. This was the only message allowed on the news and in all public forums; political correctness supressed public “expert” messages, otherwise. Pro lifers were shouted down as knuckle dragging women haters...
Then, after some years, pro-lifers had the technology and the Christian network to break through the American TASS and show the women the babies in their wombs they were killing and also showed them the inhumane method of murders. Still women continued killing.
When liberals start killing off the eldery and handicapped in the name of “mercy” killing and “health care cost savings”, they will do the same false science trick and immoral, selfish people will “buy” it until they can’t lie to themselves any more. Then they live with having committed murder via liberalism’s expert and smart self delusion. In the meantime, millions will be slaughtered. The death marchers never stop.
If liberals are going to use the total power of the state (socialized health care) to rationalize expanding their legal murder of people, make sure they do it against your demand that they do not do it; on their own souls and without your permission and cooperation.
It’s not bad enough that they are blood thirsty, liberals want to take everyone, and espeically Christians, down with them. Let the socialists do the death march of their killing alone. Like abortion, we won’t be able to stop those who “choose” to murder their own family members and unlike abortion, unless you are independently wealthy, you won’t have any real choice to seek alternative treatment for your loved ones once liberals decide they are in a class of people within their collective to be killed.
It is the boomer generation that brought abortion mainstream and it’s the boomers who will be killed by the same mentality in the end. Their own children, the ones who made it through the birth canal, will conspire with the same humanist social ideology, to rationalize their “right” to murder them. The webs we weave...
that is the state... she was being kept alive by breathing machines and all sorts of stuff that she didn’t want and specifically had requested not to have. when the machines were turned off she went home to be with god which is what she wanted.
apparently you have no brain function
really? so when Daid slew Goliath was that murder or was it just plain killing?
A) I did not whine
B) Since it is a public forum I can read and react as I wish
C) You are very illogical and strange
I responded to one person’s post who chose to use the term moral absolutes. It was a response to that. Every response since then has been to folks like you who apparently ant to talk to me rather than comment on the article. So have fun
Ah at least a question about the article.
Nah the lady in the article IF (and I don’t know and she hasn’t been found guilty yet——but the way the article is written sounds likely) she forged his signature is absolutely wrong. She is an attorney so who knows what she night be capable of.
So when you said she was brain dead, you didn’t mean actually technically brain dead. It’s just something you say when you want to insult someone. Got it. Now you’re saying that she was actually alive, but in a state that you deemed to be not worth living. No wonder you’re having a meltdown.
You jump on a thread about a woman who murdered her father and entwine an argument/justification for your decision to kill your “brain-dead” mom into the thread...and I am the odd one here?
It’s just nutty - illogical - that you are associating the situation of this article (murder) with what you did with your mom which does not sound like murder. Maybe you are a libertarian. That would explain your inability to morally discern the details of these kind of situations in life.
You made it about you.
Not every response has been about you. You also defended the behavior Van Note is accused of, saying that there is no moral absolute at play there. There most certainly is. Murder is always wrong.
You keep insisting that does not fall within the realm of a moral absolute. Explain how this crime could possibly be an exception to that rule.
In my several comments on this thread, I have commented on the article. You made a comment specifically to me so I figured it was okay to reply! Plus you used the phrase “moral abslutes” and since I pinged this to my Moral Absolutes ping list, I thought it was okay to address you about that.
If you don’t want replies, don’t make comments.
I just pinged this article out; for some reason moral cretins (or at least one, haven’t read the whole thread yet) made sure the thread got sent to the Smokey Backroom, I have no idea why it was made a target.
Todays palliative care disrespects the natural law
Thanks for that link.
I have no idea why the mod moved the thread instead of deleting the hijacking. I did not read it all either. It took a wierd turn early on for a thread about forged documents and murder charges. I’m pretty sure the words “moral absolute” set her off in a thread hijacking to justify herself disconnecting her mom from life support.
In my conservative world there’s not much disagreement about murder and forgery being absolutely immoral. But that is just me and I learned from the brilliant (libertarian, I’m guessing from the group think verbage and pitiful “pose”) pro-murder/forgery debaters here that I am “illogical” and “drunk” for noticing. :0 idk. idc so much, either.
Don’t worry about it LJ. If it trails the words “moral absolutes” then you will know it is serious amoral deathtards trying to hijack the whole forum in support of deathcare. I doubt what showed up here is that clever to have a solid train of thought from hour to hour; day to day.
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