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Beyond Obamacare
New York Times ^ | Published: September 16, 2012 | By STEVEN RATTNER

Posted on 09/30/2012 2:59:44 PM PDT by Behind Liberal Lines

We need death panels...unless we start allocating health care resources more prudently — rationing, by its proper name — the exploding cost of Medicare will swamp the federal budget.

But in the pantheon of toxic issues — the famous “third rails” of American politics — none stands taller than overtly acknowledging that elderly Americans are not entitled to every conceivable medical procedure or pharmaceutical....

Take Britain, which provides universal coverage with spending at proportionately almost half of American levels. Its National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence uses a complex quality-adjusted life year system to put an explicit value (up to about $48,000 per year) on a treatment’s ability to extend life.

At the least, the Independent Payment Advisory Board should be allowed to offer changes in services and costs. We may shrink from such stomach-wrenching choices, but they are inescapable.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: deathpanels; healthcare; obamacare; rattnermedicare; stevenrattner
Steven Rattner, a contributing opinion writer, was a counselor to the Treasury secretary in the Obama administration.
1 posted on 09/30/2012 2:59:48 PM PDT by Behind Liberal Lines
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

Sure, why not. We can start with the panel.


2 posted on 09/30/2012 3:09:17 PM PDT by Irenic (The pencil sharpener and Elmer's glue is put away-- we've lost the red wheel barrow)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines
Old people never die, they just get in the way.

Obama advisor: "We need death panels"

We need Pelosi!

Palliative End of Life Optimum Serenity Initiative (PELOSI)

Obamacare! MMMM,MMMM,MMM,

3 posted on 09/30/2012 3:09:21 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

I will agree to this, with one addition:

We also create “Work Panels”. We will allot that the maximum cost of keeping a worthless goof-off on the public dole is five years. After that they will be gainfully employed, or gainful employment will be provided for them (at the barrel of a gun if necessary).

Of course this will never be agreed to, nor will a brainless moron like the fool that wrote this article ever admit that the real “exploding” problem is the worthless cancers that live off the government, while reproducing additional little cancers that will also live their entire life slopping at the government troth - and voting Democrat.


4 posted on 09/30/2012 3:10:53 PM PDT by I cannot think of a name
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

“allocating health care resources more prudently “

In a collective, centrally planned economy,,of course. In a free market economy, there is no need to “allocate resources”. But i swear by all thats holy, if i ever have money to pay, and am refused a needed treatment for me or one i love,, I will inform the doctor to review the Sopranos doctor on the golf course scene.


5 posted on 09/30/2012 3:12:48 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

“allocating health care resources more prudently “

In a collective, centrally planned economy,,of course. In a free market economy, there is no need to “allocate resources”. But i swear by all thats holy, if i ever have money to pay, and am refused a needed treatment for me or one i love,, I will inform the doctor to review the Sopranos doctor on the golf course scene.

People who enjoy telling others that their life is not valuable enough to preserve, run the risk that the soon to be involuntarily euthanized might make a similar choice about THEM. That damned mathmatical Symetric property gets ya everytime.


6 posted on 09/30/2012 3:19:02 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtezEEXOT4c


7 posted on 09/30/2012 3:25:43 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

So not really death panels, but what’s wrong with limiting care for old people......ok.
What about limiting care for babies in need of life saving treatment?
Or, what about that car accident, where a drunk hits a family car and everyone ends up in ER, are we going to say “hey they’ve got four kids, lets just save two”?
Or what about our warriors wounded, are we only going to treat the ones who will return home whole?
I know it all sounds so silly, yet who would have thought the government would advocate not treating seniors.


8 posted on 09/30/2012 3:26:22 PM PDT by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

This is the problem when the person paying is different than the persmon receiving the benefit. The person paying will have an incentive to minimize costs and the person receiving will have an incentive to maximize expenditures. The only way to reconcile these two positions is with force.

Or we can be free people and let each of us be responsible for his own expenditures. Then each of us can make his own decisions to maximize his own well-being within the limits of his own resources, and no force is necessary.


9 posted on 09/30/2012 3:26:35 PM PDT by Haiku Guy (Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die!)
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To: DesertRhino

That was probably my favorite scene from that series.


10 posted on 09/30/2012 3:28:10 PM PDT by Cowgirl of Justice
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To: DesertRhino

I know a friend who was getting two treatments of chemo a week....’they’ have now decided they will only give him one treatment a week for no other reason but cost. And people thought Palin was crazy talking about death panels? Good scene in Sopranos....


11 posted on 09/30/2012 3:31:00 PM PDT by Blue Turtle
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

The entire LSM owes an apology to Sarah Palin. It won’t be forthcoming, but they owe it nevertheless.


12 posted on 09/30/2012 3:34:57 PM PDT by Sirius Lee (Nuke Mecca.)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

Let’s make sure we understand the rules. “...elderly Americans are not entitled to every conceivable medical procedure...” but it is cruel and unusual punishment to deny a prisoner gender reassignment surgery at public expense.


13 posted on 09/30/2012 3:43:57 PM PDT by omega4412
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

I’m picturing myself like Edward G. Robinson in Soylent Green.


14 posted on 09/30/2012 3:44:55 PM PDT by Sans-Culotte ( Pray for Obama- Psalm 109:8)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

Obama’s Auschwitz = ObamaCare


15 posted on 09/30/2012 3:47:26 PM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
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To: svcw
So not really death panels, but what’s wrong with limiting care for old people......ok. What about limiting care for babies in need of life saving treatment?

Remember, there are people in/advising this administration who believe that "abortion" can take place up to age two.

16 posted on 09/30/2012 3:49:04 PM PDT by SCalGal (Friends don't let friends donate to H$U$, A$PCA, or PETA.)
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To: SCalGal

True.


17 posted on 09/30/2012 3:52:47 PM PDT by svcw (Why is one cell on another planet considered life, and in the womb it is not.)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

Without MAJOR changes elsewhere in the healthcare system the writer is correct. That which cannot continue indefinitely will not, and healthcare costs have been rising exponentially (something which cannot continue) for many, many years. Third party payment (insurance or government), opaque prices, obscene cost-shifting, malpractice suits, artificially limited provider supply are all significant factors above and beyond the demographic gorilla in the room.


18 posted on 09/30/2012 4:03:52 PM PDT by Glenmore
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To: Glenmore
Without MAJOR changes elsewhere in the healthcare system the writer is correct.

I say we start by abolishing congress' healthcare.

19 posted on 09/30/2012 4:05:43 PM PDT by SCalGal (Friends don't let friends donate to H$U$, A$PCA, or PETA.)
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To: Irenic
You want to throw a scare into libs? Just point out that many elderly pay more taxes than the "47%", and so the death panels should actually concentrate on giving minimal care to those who subsist on producers' contributions. The $48,000 per year figure could be used.

To get back on track, the elderly do use a lot of medical services. However, some group HAS to use the most. If the elderly are forced to do with minimal care, then guess what! Pregnant women and neonates require the next highest level of care. Look at that group's contribution. If you run through the groups, young Asian males should receive the best care as they are most likely to contribute to society and least likely to be burdens on others. The slippery slope of having the government decide who gets cared for.

20 posted on 09/30/2012 4:35:51 PM PDT by VanShuyten ("a shadow...draped nobly in the folds of a gorgeous eloquence.")
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

And what guarantee do we have this “rationing” won’t suddenly become politically based? As in, you cross the wrong politician, your ration gets smaller...or nonexistent?


21 posted on 09/30/2012 5:34:34 PM PDT by RWB Patriot ("My ability is a value that must be purchased and I don't recognize anyone's need as a claim on me.")
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To: RWB Patriot
The potential for basing benefits on political connections is the the argument that should have been made every day from the beginning of Obamacare.

It is so easy to make the case by pointing to everything that Obama has done,especially his stimulus plan. All the benefits go to his supporters at the expense of his opponents. Even Dems can see how ugly that becomes if their guy does not get elected.

22 posted on 09/30/2012 9:05:08 PM PDT by rascal
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To: RWB Patriot
The potential for basing benefits on political connections is the the argument that should have been made every day from the beginning of Obamacare.

It is so easy to make the case by pointing to everything that Obama has done,especially his stimulus plan. All the benefits go to his supporters at the expense of his opponents. Even Dems can see how ugly that becomes if their guy does not get elected.

23 posted on 09/30/2012 9:16:11 PM PDT by rascal
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