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Man who left loaded revolver just yards from a sleeping baby jailed for six years
dailymail.co.uk ^ | 30 September, 2012 | Sarah Johnson

Posted on 10/01/2012 8:04:49 AM PDT by marktwain

They found an antique Russian Smith and Wesson 44 revolver wrapped in a blanket in the child’s cot near where he was sleeping on a bed.

The gun was loaded and fully operational. Alongside it officers also found a machete.

Mr Arif, aged 42, was arrested nearby and charged with possession of a firearm.

At first, he denied all knowledge of the weapons, saying they had been put there by someone else, but forensic experts recovered his DNA from the trigger guard and the ammunition in the chamber, proving that he had handled the firearm.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: banglist; guncontrol; swrussian; uk
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That antique .44 is likely worth quite a bit to a collector in the U.S. I wonder if guns confiscated by British police can be exported to the U.S. market. When I had an FFL, I bought dozens of lovely S&W model 10 revolvers that had been carried by London police. I was told by the distributor that the London police had switched to Glocks. Some holster wear, but it was obvious that they had not been shot much.
1 posted on 10/01/2012 8:04:57 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Not a great place to put a gun, but the baby would not have had the strength to fire the weapon.


2 posted on 10/01/2012 8:11:22 AM PDT by Vince Ferrer
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To: marktwain

But a guy who did a hit and run and killed a young girl only got four years. Only in England.


3 posted on 10/01/2012 8:12:06 AM PDT by SkyDancer ("OF COURSE I TALK TO MYSELF - Sometimes I need an expert opinion")
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To: marktwain

Jailed for 6 years? In Britain???? They don’t jail people for 6 years in Britain who mug and kill people. The British justice system is really screwed up.


4 posted on 10/01/2012 8:12:48 AM PDT by Opinionated Blowhard ("When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.")
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To: marktwain

Muzie didn’t want evil Christians to kidnap his future terororist.


5 posted on 10/01/2012 8:13:06 AM PDT by boomop1 (term limits will only save this country.)
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To: boomop1

wow terrorist


6 posted on 10/01/2012 8:18:09 AM PDT by boomop1 (term limits will only save this country.)
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To: marktwain

The baby was in terrible danger from the proximity of the gun. it could, too easily, have crawled over and strangled the infant.


7 posted on 10/01/2012 8:24:37 AM PDT by arthurus (Read Hazlitt's Economics In One Lesson ONLINE www.fee.org/library/books/economics-in-one-lesson)
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To: marktwain

I have a beautiful example of a Cogswell & Harrison conversion of a S&W Victory Model 38 S&W to accept 38 Special cartridges. They also added a ramped front sight and removed the parkerizing and blued/polished it.

Several barrel pressure test markings and C&H stamps as well as the old V-model Serial Number on the Lanyard Ring bottom of the butt....nice gun...got it for a song...


8 posted on 10/01/2012 8:27:23 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Vince Ferrer

“Mr Arif”. Sure sounds Amish to me.........


9 posted on 10/01/2012 8:36:57 AM PDT by EggsAckley ("There's an Ethiopian in the fuel supply!")
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To: marktwain
Each of those six bullets could have killed someone.

Whew, imagine if those six bullets had teamed up with an SUV!

10 posted on 10/01/2012 8:37:05 AM PDT by bgill
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To: marktwain
I was asking myself is the sentence was for the firearm or child endangerment.

I found my answer at the link:

Under the current law anyone found guilty of possessing an illegal firearm faces a minimum sentence of five years in prison.

11 posted on 10/01/2012 8:37:39 AM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: marktwain

I have the Cimarron Arms (Uberti made) Model 3 Russian of this in 45 Colt....a very nice gun...the Russian Model 3 has a couple of variations on the model 2...a lanyard ring, and a finger tang below the trigger guard....this is a pricey replica... an original 44 would be worth a lot more I’d guess.... The later Schofield I have in 45 colt is very similar, but has a much better retention mechanism that doesn’t require two hands to break it open to reload like the Russian...


12 posted on 10/01/2012 8:37:39 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: marktwain
I was asking myself if the sentence was for the firearm or child endangerment.

I found my answer at the link:

Under the current law anyone found guilty of possessing an illegal firearm faces a minimum sentence of five years in prison.

13 posted on 10/01/2012 8:38:08 AM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: marktwain

They found an antique Russian Smith and Wesson 44 revolver wrapped in a blanket in the child’s cot near where he was sleeping on a bed.

LOL, a “Russian” S&W? I must have missed something or didn’t read that right.


14 posted on 10/01/2012 8:49:19 AM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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To: marktwain
“This was a very powerful handgun, with a fully loaded chamber, which could have had devastating consequences if fired.

Because everyone knows that if it was just a .22 the bullets would bounce off the kids. At most they'll cry some and you'll have to buy them some ice cream to make them feel better. < /sarc>

15 posted on 10/01/2012 8:51:58 AM PDT by KarlInOhio ("Government is the only thing that we all belong to"=implicit repeal of the 13th amendment for all.)
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To: marktwain
1) The fact that Britain jails people for six years who simply OWN A REVOLVER is insane.

2) That said, it's still good to get someone out of circulation who's first name is 'Mohammad'.

16 posted on 10/01/2012 8:52:59 AM PDT by Lazamataz (The American news media, the 'Pravda Press', is fully Soviet-ized.)
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To: Vendome
LOL, a “Russian” S&W? I must have missed something or didn’t read that right.

Wikipedia S&W Russian Model

Russian Model

Smith & Wesson produced large numbers of the Model 3, in three distinct models, for the Russian Empire by special order. The first was the 1st Model Russian (the original order design), and the Russian Ordnance Inspector mandated a number of improvements to the design, resulting in the 2nd Model Russian, with a final revision to the Russian design being known as the 3rd Model Russian.

Smith & Wesson nearly went bankrupt as a result of their Russian Contract production, as the Imperial government assigned a number of engineers and gunsmiths to reverse-engineer the Smith & Wesson design, and then began to produce copies of the revolver—both in their own arsenal at Tula and by contracting other manufacturers in Germany and elsewhere in Europe to manufacture copies of the revolver (a common practice at the time—Webley & Scott's British Bulldog revolver was widely copied, too, by European and American gunsmiths).

The Russian and European copies of the S&W Model 3 revolver were generally of very high quality, but considerably cheaper than the S&W produced revolvers. This led to the Imperial government cancelling the order for significant quantities of Smith & Wesson–made revolvers (which Smith & Wesson had already produced), and delaying (or refusing) payment for the handguns that had already been delivered.[5]

17 posted on 10/01/2012 8:56:08 AM PDT by KarlInOhio ("Government is the only thing that we all belong to"=implicit repeal of the 13th amendment for all.)
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To: marktwain
...but forensic experts recovered his DNA from the trigger guard and the ammunition in the chamber, proving that he had handled the firearm.

DNA on the cartridges? Well, that's odd.

I've noticed a trend in these articles, where writers or editors use "DNA" to describe pretty much any forensic evidence. I guess it's quicker than typing out "fingerprints", or some other *accurate* description.

18 posted on 10/01/2012 8:56:31 AM PDT by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: Vendome
LOL, a “Russian” S&W? I must have missed something or didn’t read that right.

In the late 1800's, S&W manufactured revolvers for the Russian government, to their specifications. This model is known as the Russian S&W.

19 posted on 10/01/2012 8:57:30 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: Gaffer
To: marktwain

***I have a beautiful example of a Cogswell & Harrison conversion of a S&W Victory Model 38 S&W to accept 38 Special cartridges.***

I have a S&W Victory model that has been converted by the British to .22LR. A new barrel, NP proof marks all over it, sleeved cylinder, different extractor. The parkerizing has been removed and crappy blue is now on it. Shoots great.

20 posted on 10/01/2012 8:57:41 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: Vendome

Imperial Russian contract, from the Tsarist era.


21 posted on 10/01/2012 8:58:06 AM PDT by M1903A1 ("We shed all that is good and virtuous for that which is shoddy and sleazy... and call it progress")
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To: Vince Ferrer

22 posted on 10/01/2012 8:59:47 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: marktwain
On the one hand, it's insane that you get a longer sentence in England for having a gun than for raping and killing someone.

On the other hand, something strange seems to be going on here, what with the machete and all, and I can't get all that worked up about sending this guy to prison.

In fact, I'd have thought they would have suspended his sentence because his name is Mohammed. Who knows, maybe they will?


23 posted on 10/01/2012 9:00:20 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Vince Ferrer

maybe the baby had a concealed carry permit. oh wait this is britainastan where law abiding citizens + targets for criminals.


24 posted on 10/01/2012 9:01:55 AM PDT by bravo whiskey (if the little things really annoy you, maybe it's because the big things are going well.)
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To: Vendome

***LOL, a “Russian” S&W? I must have missed something or didn’t read that right.***

S&W had a contract to build pistols for the Russians way before 1917. The same as Remington built Mosin Nagant rifles for them.

http://www.russianrevolvers.com/sw_first_contract.html

http://www.mosinnagant.net/ussr/US-Mosin-Nagants.asp


25 posted on 10/01/2012 9:04:49 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: marktwain

those models...I have one...shoots 205 grain cowboy BP loads

are double action

if this was truly an infant and it was wrapped in a blanket

not much danger in my opinion

not a great idea but in UK they love to give gun court time out

here they are worth 5-600 and up..way up for some

mine is cherry..shoots a lot of lead at low recoil and velocity

you can buy them without any paperwork...pre 1899 black powder


26 posted on 10/01/2012 9:06:29 AM PDT by wardaddy (my wife prays in the tanning bed....guess what region i live in)
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar

the Remington Mosins have about a double price added value over the others as a rule


27 posted on 10/01/2012 9:08:39 AM PDT by wardaddy (my wife prays in the tanning bed....guess what region i live in)
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To: Opinionated Blowhard
Jailed for 6 years? In Britain???? They don’t jail people for 6 years in Britain who mug and kill people. The British justice system is really screwed up.

Muggings and killings of the common people does not threaten the security of the State. Possession of firearms, does.

28 posted on 10/01/2012 9:16:25 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (Charlie Daniels - Payback Time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWwTJj_nosI)
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To: PapaBear3625
Muggings and killings of the common people does not threaten the security of the State. Possession of firearms, does.

Bears repeating. Excellent post.

29 posted on 10/01/2012 9:32:09 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: wardaddy
those models...I have one...shoots 205 grain cowboy BP loads
are double action


I’m fairly certain all original Russian S&W were single action.
30 posted on 10/01/2012 10:22:42 AM PDT by Hiddigeigei ("Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish," said Dionysus - Euripides)
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To: marktwain

“Each of those six bullets could have killed someone.”

After killing six people, he could’ve then killed both the woman and child by beating them over the had with the butt of the empty gun. And then he could’ve thrown the gun at the dog, striking it with sufficient force to kill it. And then, when the unarmed bobbies arrived and wrestled him to the floor, he could’ve sneezed on them, transmitting flu germs that could ultimately kill the coppers. He could also cuss out the innocent bystanders, calling them vile and horrific names which would probably lead them to commit suicide over the emotional abuse he heaped on them.


31 posted on 10/01/2012 10:48:45 AM PDT by moovova (Hey buddy, can you spare a tagline?)
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To: arthurus
Naw, the guy is probably a Three Stooges fan. He was just following Shemps advise, that when a baby crys give him some thing to play with. And like Shemp he handed the kid a revolver. The only difference is Shemp handed the kid a .38.
32 posted on 10/01/2012 11:07:41 AM PDT by JimC214
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To: SkyDancer

Because sadly the scumbag was convicted of death by dangerous driving, which still (and it needs to be harsher) is a lower sentence than murder or even manslaughter, because you can be convicted of it if your actions were stupid and/or negligent, but not deliberate. IE you took your eyes off the road to adjust a car radio, look at your mobile.


33 posted on 10/01/2012 12:47:17 PM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: the scotsman

Years ago in WA this woman was changing CD’s while driving. Took out three kids (killed). Got something like 4 years in Purdy (women’s prison). For whatever reason the governor paroled her after two. BTW - a republican one, but then there’s Huckabee releasing that murderer to come to WA and killed four LEO’s.


34 posted on 10/01/2012 1:51:20 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("OF COURSE I TALK TO MYSELF - Sometimes I need an expert opinion")
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To: marktwain

PS - so like an infant can pick up the gun and pull the trigger? Is there more to this story?


35 posted on 10/01/2012 1:52:42 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("OF COURSE I TALK TO MYSELF - Sometimes I need an expert opinion")
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To: Opinionated Blowhard

Depends on what the charge is. And actually the vast majority of British thugs and murderers/killers DO get more than 6 yrs. Its the few that dont that get the headlines.

I agree we have bad judges just like you. I agree that we dont bang them away for long enough in some cases. We used to.


36 posted on 10/01/2012 2:07:34 PM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: Cicero

As I have said, the idea that most UK rapists and/or killers dont get six years is not true. A minority get light sentences, and as I said it depends on the charge and the circumstance under which someone dies. Rapists/sexual abusers get 7-10+ in most cases. Some of course get life sentences, as of course do some killers.


37 posted on 10/01/2012 2:10:37 PM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: SkyDancer
PS - so like an infant can pick up the gun and pull the trigger? Is there more to this story?

The information that the gun was in the same room as an infant is just sensationalist nonsense. It has no real relevance to the story.

It is just a generic bit of hoplophobia that has become part of British culture. It is not logical. It is emotional.

38 posted on 10/01/2012 3:32:20 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

So was he like jailed for six years because he had an illegally owned gun or was it because the gun was in the same room as the infant? Brits unfortunately are ruled by morons. Do a hit and run and kill a kid, jail time is like four years and out early for good behavior.


39 posted on 10/01/2012 3:45:44 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("OF COURSE I TALK TO MYSELF - Sometimes I need an expert opinion")
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To: SkyDancer; All
So was he like jailed for six years because he had an illegally owned gun or was it because the gun was in the same room as the infant?

I do not know what the exact charges were. However, it is illegal for him to have the gun without a license, and licenses for pistols are impossible to get in the U.K., so that is one charge.

There are also very strict storage requirements, so that guns must be locked up and unloaded, so those are a couple of other potential charges.

It is possible that a hoplophobic judge in the UK might say that he is guilty of child endangerment... I do not know about that.

When the anti-freedom types aim to impose "reasonable" gun restrictions, they always include provisions to make self defense with a gun illegal. If self defense with a gun were considered legitimate, the storage requirements would not stand up in court, because it is obvious to anyone that an unloaded gun locked up is not very useful for self defense.

One of the most important and crutial points of the Heller decision was that because Americans have a right to self defense, they have a right to immediate access to loaded handguns in their home.

40 posted on 10/01/2012 5:04:29 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

Understood. But wasn’t this in England?


41 posted on 10/01/2012 5:07:27 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("OF COURSE I TALK TO MYSELF - Sometimes I need an expert opinion")
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To: SkyDancer
Understood. But wasn’t this in England?

I think I understand your comment now. Yes, this was in England. I was contrasting what we have in the United States, to make the point that the Heller decision was crucial to us in this area. As long as the Heller decision holds, it will be impossible for the anti-freedom types to impose British style gradual degradation of the right to arms, because they cannot start with the British denial of the use of firearms for self defense.

42 posted on 10/01/2012 5:33:07 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

IOW - the Brits really have no right to self defense. It always comes down on the side of the perp.


43 posted on 10/01/2012 5:40:21 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("OF COURSE I TALK TO MYSELF - Sometimes I need an expert opinion")
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To: SkyDancer
IOW - the Brits really have no right to self defense. It always comes down on the side of the perp.

Nothing stays the same forever. With the increasing crime in the UK, there is an increasing demand to give homeowners more leeway to defend themselves and their home. There has been a trend to codify that position.

Who knows? It might happen that people in the UK will eventually be able to carry weapons for self defense. It is an ancient right of Englishmen.

44 posted on 10/01/2012 8:18:46 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

It used to be that way. Then the gangs took over and they disarmed the citizens so only the gangs have guns. The cops don’t. They have a special unit that can use guns but only if they’re called out and have to go to an armory to get them. By the time the show up, it’s all over. Stupid Brits.


45 posted on 10/01/2012 8:21:23 PM PDT by SkyDancer ("OF COURSE I TALK TO MYSELF - Sometimes I need an expert opinion")
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To: Hiddigeigei

As i remember without looking it up.....the SW model 3 in 44 Russian was single action

The SW 1st model DA in 44 Russian was double action....i think without getting up and googling serial numbers mine is an 1882 model

They look quite alike......superficially anyhow....mine is very cherry but the TOTW loads by GOREX.....boxed by GOREX anyhow are light BP

i had never seen GOREX but as powder but nonetheless that is the boxing

And of course to further confuse models of that era that looked quite alike is the Frontier model which i think only carried 44-40 also DA


46 posted on 10/01/2012 11:17:42 PM PDT by wardaddy (my wife prays in the tanning bed....guess what region i live in)
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To: PapaBear3625
Muggings and killings of the common people does not threaten the security of the State.

Perhaps they should name the governmental apparatus which deals with this problem the "Committee for State Security".

It would seem fitting.

47 posted on 10/01/2012 11:28:31 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: wardaddy

Well, you live and learn. Thanks for the reply.


48 posted on 10/02/2012 7:29:16 AM PDT by Hiddigeigei ("Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish," said Dionysus - Euripides)
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To: SkyDancer

Yes, we do.

Myth.


49 posted on 10/03/2012 5:23:34 AM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: SkyDancer

1—As stupid as the gun laws have been, the British publicv has never owned guns en masse. The highest amount of legal guns was 1.6m in 1996, and most gunowners like myself owned more than one.

2—All major UK police forces have firearms units on constant standby, so your assertion re armoury=too late is a nonsense.


50 posted on 10/03/2012 5:27:10 AM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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