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Romney's Middle-Class Tax Sale: How the Republican can win the debate he's now losing by default.
Wall Street Journal ^ | 10/03/2012

Posted on 10/03/2012 5:02:47 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

In this peculiar election year, President Obama is pulling off the small miracle—no, make that the kind of thing that happens in Lourdes—of winning the tax debate. This should be impossible, and Mitt Romney has to turn that around if he wants to win.

Despite a tax platform that is a Walter Mondale replay, polls show that Mr. Obama has sanded off the traditional GOP tax edge and the lead Mr. Romney held as recently as late summer. An ABC-Washington Post poll gives Mr. Obama a 49%-44% advantage on taxes, with Mr. Romney's credibility slipping from 48% in August, and Mr. Obama's surging from 43%. The same poll has 57% of registered voters saying Mr. Romney would do more to favor the wealthy than the middle class and merely 35% believing the opposite.

The main cause of this role reversal is that Mr. Obama has driven a relentless tax message—albeit a wildly deceptive one: That Mr. Romney is a sleeper agent who wants to raise taxes on middle-class families by $2,000 to finance tax cuts for him and his fellow tycoons. Mr. Obama invokes this putative secret plot at every rally, and so does every surrogate down to dogcatcher, plus his TV commercials.

As a factual matter, the claim is as bogus as any in years because Mr. Romney has proposed no such thing. The claim hangs on an August 1 report by the liberal Tax Policy Center that even its authors have since admitted was merely "stylized."

The outfit's gnomes concluded that Mr. Romney's actual reform proposal—cutting rates across the board by 20%, combined with closing loopholes at the higher end—was "mathematically impossible." They then imagined multiple details for a "Romney" tax plan that existed only in their own minds and that would raise taxes among the lower brackets

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: middleclass; romney; tax
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1 posted on 10/03/2012 5:02:49 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Romney’s losing?


2 posted on 10/03/2012 5:09:56 AM PDT by Blue Turtle
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To: Blue Turtle

That’s the standard media meme today. Even Fox News and the Wall Street Journal is buying into this.

Also, yesterday Sean Hannity said in a response to a caller that he believes that the race is a dead heat ( with Obama slightly ahead ).


3 posted on 10/03/2012 5:11:39 AM PDT by SeekAndFind (bOTRT)
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To: Blue Turtle

I dont believe Romney is losing


4 posted on 10/03/2012 5:14:44 AM PDT by rxtn41
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To: SeekAndFind

ABC-Washington Post poll. Is this another one with D+12???


5 posted on 10/03/2012 5:15:05 AM PDT by radioone ( Main Stream Media. The Government built that.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Republicans need to hammer away at the point that trillion dollar deficits will not be paid for by taxing the rich, that Obama will have to raise taxes on the middle class. Turn their own weapons against them.


6 posted on 10/03/2012 5:19:05 AM PDT by Daveinyork
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To: SeekAndFind; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; Impy; stephenjohnbanker; NFHale; ...
RE :”In this peculiar election year, President Obama is pulling off the small miracle—no, make that the kind of thing that happens in Lourdes—of winning the tax debate. This should be impossible, and Mitt Romney has to turn that around if he wants to win......
The outfit's gnomes concluded that Mr. Romney's actual reform proposal—cutting rates across the board by 20%, combined with closing loopholes at the higher end—was “mathematically impossible.” They then imagined multiple details for a “Romney” tax plan that existed only in their own minds and that would raise taxes among the lower brackets

I was tempted to mention this yesterday, but didn't. So this article is handy and lays it out.

Early on R2 decided to pitch a tax plan that specifies the tax cuts (candy) without specifying the deductions (medicine) they say they will eliminate 'to pay for it', while calling it deficit neutral. They say they will leave the deduction part to congress to hash out.

So Dems sprung a trap on him by claiming those unspecified eliminated deductions were on the middle class, to pay for those tax cuts on the rich,

So every-time the R2 did an interview with the media, like Ryan on FNS this Sunday, he was grilled on what those deductions are. What is amazing is that this is been going on for months and Romney hasn't come up with an effective counter to it. I been watching this dance for months. They get grilled on it EVERY interview they do, mean-while Obama goes on Late Night and makes jokes.

Anyway the WSJ editorial gives R2 some advice on how to argue this.

7 posted on 10/03/2012 5:29:46 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: sickoflibs
So every-time the R2 did an interview with the media, like Ryan on FNS this Sunday, he was grilled on what those deductions are. What is amazing is that this is been going on for months and Romney hasn't come up with an effective counter to it. I been watching this dance for months. They get grilled on it EVERY interview they do, mean-while Obama goes on Late Night and makes jokes.

the thread i mentioned last night, mittens finally fought back and detailed the 'deductions', right before the debates no less...mortgage interest deductions...just what the dr ordered...

whether the entire plan is a good idea is one thing, but handing bambam a loaded gun, when you are loading bean bag rounds in yours, is priceless...where does that analogy come from...???hmmm??? oh yeah, brian terry got murdered by a government bought/smuggled ak while those ROE were in place in arizona, of all places...

8 posted on 10/03/2012 5:39:04 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: SeekAndFind
An ABC-Washington Post poll

Stopped reading here. Romney isn't losing, and the "tax cut war" was over before it began.
9 posted on 10/03/2012 5:41:26 AM PDT by snowrip (Liberal? You are a socialist idiot with no rational argument.)
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To: Gilbo_3
RE :”the thread i mentioned last night, mittens finally fought back and detailed the ‘deductions’, right before the debates no less...mortgage interest deductions...just what the dr ordered...

mortgage interest deductions on everyone?

Techically even that would not be enough to get a CBO neutral score.

10 posted on 10/03/2012 5:44:30 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: Gilbo_3

Just for the sake of argument, eliminating home mortgage deductions is hardly going to help a struggling previously crippled Housing market.

This shows the trap.

I am skeptical of your claim about MR, I saw the Wallace FNS interview 3 days ago and Ryan was clearly avoiding the question, he replied w stuff like ‘The details will bore the audience’

Hopefully MR will do better than that tonight. Hopefully he was waiting till the debate with something good.


11 posted on 10/03/2012 5:50:30 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: sickoflibs
mortgage interest deductions on everyone?

Techically even that would not be enough to get a CBO neutral score.

yeah everyone, wish the thread hadnt disappeared...it was a typical mittens explanation of econ, and raised more questions than answers...which is why i believe its a loaded gun for bambam at the *debate*...

12 posted on 10/03/2012 5:52:40 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: SeekAndFind

Wsj has shifted hard left under Baby Murdoch’s control .
It’s pathetic .
But then again it was documented to be left wing rag except for the editorial page for years .


13 posted on 10/03/2012 5:54:48 AM PDT by ncalburt (Axelrod Psych OPS has gone to 24/7 non stop - "The election is over " status until Nov)
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To: sickoflibs
I am skeptical of your claim about MR, I saw the Wallace FNS interview 3 days ago and Ryan was clearly avoiding the question, he replied w stuff like ‘The details will bore the audience’

well Master Po, you told me to be wary of the trap, and it sounded like an off-the-cuff answer to make the questions stop...like a used car saleman changing the subject when asked if the odometer has been rolled over, or if a 73 pinto really has only 316 miles...

14 posted on 10/03/2012 6:03:46 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Gilbo_3; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; DoughtyOne; Impy; stephenjohnbanker; NFHale
RE :”yeah everyone, wish the thread hadnt disappeared...it was a typical mittens explanation of econ, and raised more questions than answers...which is why i believe its a loaded gun for bambam at the *debate*... “

Finally you get to my point :)

O has it easy, just claim that everything will be paid for by tax increases on ‘the rich’, ‘just asking them to pay their fair share’, so 'the middle class wont suffer as much'
..and while in the real world that wont pay for much,
they know Republicans will scream that every rich guy (including Micheal Moore apparently) is a job creator and cannot possibly pay another dime in taxes or we will will all lose our jobs, and add that GWB cuts taxes and it worked great under him, and then that debate is over. Welcome Obama part II.

They better come up with something better than that.

BTW for your laugh : Yesterday Biden said "The middle class got hammered these past four years"' (who was POTUS?) That guy is too much.

15 posted on 10/03/2012 6:11:36 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: Gilbo_3
EE :”...and it sounded like an off-the-cuff answer to make the questions stop...l

WELLLL...It didnt work.
The cat sees the mouse try to run from his trap and the movement just draws the cats paw again. I watched our family cat play with live wild mice that HE caught and brought home to show off many times. When he was done playing he just bit off the mouses head.

Its so predictable.

16 posted on 10/03/2012 6:16:47 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: sickoflibs

theyre all empty suits...and remember that i can already hear the giant sucking sound of nature trying to contain the vaccuum of slo joes mind...


17 posted on 10/03/2012 6:31:40 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: SeekAndFind

If Obama gets re-elected and assures that there will be no fix for the coming tax disaster by the end of the year, Americans will have a big surprise in their paychecks January and on April 15, 2013 there could be rioting in the streets and a huge march on Washington when ordinary Americans see their tax bill.


18 posted on 10/03/2012 6:33:38 AM PDT by The Great RJ
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To: sickoflibs; INVAR
I watched our family cat play with live wild mice that HE caught and brought home to show off many times. When he was done playing he just bit off the mouses head.

i'll go further...the rabbitt in the cats mouth just hangs there limp, as if in its mothers mouth by the scruff of the neck...

it only runs/fights when its magic pressure point is released, and even then, it doesnt do so with any *plan* at all, just being driven by FEAR...

19 posted on 10/03/2012 6:35:07 AM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: SeekAndFind

He’d be wise to advocate for a flat tax, explaining a millionaire paying 20% of income to the government is much more than someone in the middle class. Getting rid of loopholes (write-offs) will increase the taxes on the rich who plow their money into tax havens. Tax havens include buying off politicans and major institutions in the US in a variety of ways. (Over eighty percent of Americans think everyone should pay taxes.)

But he and his election advisors are not wise. They are regressives.


20 posted on 10/03/2012 7:42:14 AM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: sickoflibs

My come-back to his ‘tax the rich move’ would be to explain that if you took every penny from the rich, it wouldn’t cover one year of your spending. And then I’d ask him how any adult could consider themselves well informed, let alone presidential, if they didn’t know that. And then I’d add, “And this is only one of a number of glaring economic knowledge deficits you suffer from.”

The obvious retort would be met with...

Mr. President, you are one of the most divisive presidents we have ever had.

One moment it’s Hispanics against others. The next it’s women against others. Then it’s the poor against still others. Didn’t you say you were going to be the great uniter? This is just one more area where you have been a miserable failure.

Here you are now trying to portray wealthy people as some sort of social criminal. Here’s another fact you still can’t grasp, at this late date. Is it better to take all the money of the wealthy job creators, or is it better to let them keep “THEIR” money, reduce the government burden on their backs, and put between 20 and 30 million Americans back to work? By your own words, you have made it abundantly clear you don’t have the slightest clue to the answer to this question.

Why should anyone back your play at this point? You’re woefully unprepared to be President. You are a massive divider of groups of people, one from another. Your domestic policies are a travesty. Your foreign affairs policies are a travesty. I don’t mind grading on the curve, but for heaven’s sake, there has to be some limits on how bad you can govern, and yet still retain your job.

You’re an absolute failure on every level.


21 posted on 10/03/2012 8:25:49 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Imagine how bad these global protests would be, if Obama hadn't won us s o many new friends.)
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To: DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas
RE :”My come-back to his ‘tax the rich move’ would be to explain that if you took every penny from the rich, it wouldn’t cover one year of your spending. And then I’d ask him how any adult could consider themselves well informed, let alone presidential, if they didn’t know that.

Ok, I have suggested that one to them many times myself here.
So let me play the Obama part for fun, you play MR:

O :”Look, I am willing to cut spending by $$$$ trillion in return for asking the rich to pay their fair share, just as much as the same tax rates a hard working school teacher must pay, but my opponent has committed himself to not raising any taxes even if he got 10 to 1 in spending cuts. There is no way the American people are going to sacrifice their entitlements and earned benefits just so my opponent can deliver more tax cuts to the well off. NOt on my watch!

Drones in audience cheer, “Obama cares for us. 4 more years”

I can see this coming D1.

22 posted on 10/03/2012 8:52:00 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: DoughtyOne
RE:”You’re an absolute failure on every level.

HA-HA, I will cover (bet against) some-ones $500 bet that MR will say anything like that, no, in fact lets make it $1000. He wont so I feel a big payday coming up .

I heard this payday line before somewhere.

23 posted on 10/03/2012 9:39:23 AM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: sickoflibs
Ok, I have suggested that one to them many times myself here.

So let me play the Obama part for fun, you play MR:

O :”Look, I am willing to cut spending by $$$$ trillion in return for asking the rich to pay their fair share, just as much as the same tax rates a hard working school teacher must pay, but my opponent has committed himself to not raising any taxes even if he got 10 to 1 in spending cuts. There is no way the American people are going to sacrifice their entitlements and earned benefits just so my opponent can deliver more tax cuts to the well off. NOt on my watch!”

R:  Once again Mr. Obama, you show no grasp of elemental fiscal or economic concepts, and also you're back to breaking out a group of people for special interest.

A lot of people pay income taxes.  Most teachers are good people, but they're no better than the rest of the populace.  By only mentioning teachers, you place everyone else in a second class.  Why are you so prone to do that over and over and over again.  It's women this, Hispanics that, Blacks the other, and now teachers too.  You just can't help yourself can you.  Today you're back to trashing "rich people" because they supposedly aren't doing their fair share.  What you're actually saying is, "Rich people", unlike everyone else, don't have a right to the fruits of their creativity, ingenuity, and long hours worth of administrative duties.  Having never run a business, or make a payroll, or be responsible for making the decisions that would see your family supported or not, if the business were to fail, it's painfully obvious you just don't grasp this on any level.  You're addressing this like a nine year old child, completely devoid of any practical real world experience in this area, just shooting your mouth off with platitudes designed to make it seem like you're for the little guy, when all your really for is keeping the little guy unemployed and on a government program.  Why do you care so little for our fellow citizens?  Just when do you see yourself helping businesses hire people and get them back to work?

Do teachers put people to work?  No.  They help prepare our children for future employment and great inventiveness, but they don't employ people.  That's not to say they are not important, and I care about them more than you understand.  What you want to do, is subsidize those who don't work.  You don't want to subsidize the employers who put people to work.  You make a big deal about teachers, and forget completely the parents of the children they have in their classroom, who need to work so they can feed, house, and clothe them.  As long as you can take taxpayer money and give it to someone else, you think you've done your duty.  No, Mr. Obama, the goal is to put people back to work, not keep them on the Dole indefinitely. 

The goal is to get folks off the government breast, and back on the payroll of a private company.  Private companies create things or provide a service.  Those jobs are a net benefit to society.  Welfare is not.  Welfare never ends if you don't employ people.  And you Mr. Obama, are most interested in creating new taxes on corporations, so called "rich people", and small businesses.  And you still don't get it, that small businesses qualify as a rich person, because most of the people who own small businesses in our nation file individual tax returns, not corporate tax returns. 

As for you offering 10 to 1 spending cuts to tax increases, I can't help but laugh.  You've had four years to implement that plan, and your actions don't support the idea you have done so on any substantive level.  In conclusion, I'm willing to bet that people on welfare would rather be doing something productive for income, than sitting on their sofa waiting for a government check to arrive.  On November 6th, we'll see if I'm right. 

If folks think taking all the wealth from rich people, which won't even cover one years worth of your deficit spending, and then they're forever broke like a lot of other people, then this nation is done, and people can vote for you to finish the destruction of your first four years.  I think our populace is smart enough not to want to do that.

 
Drones in audience cheer, “Obama cares for us. 4 more years”

Thinking people at home look at each other and say, "Damn, Romney hit that one out of the ball park.  Is Obama going to be able to stand back up and continue?"

I can see this coming D1.


IMO, this is Romney's to lose.  If he doesn't come out jabbing and throwing the occasional big punch, it's over.

If he nails Obama on his record, Obama will look like the nine year old child he has been governing as.


Now, will he?  This is what I think you see coming, and you  may be right.  I hope not.

24 posted on 10/03/2012 11:54:14 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Imagine how bad these global protests would be, if Obama hadn't won us s o many new friends.)
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To: sickoflibs

Well I didn’t predict he would say it. I said I would say it.

We both know the odds on Romney saying it. Reagan would.

None of these other ankle biters would. They’re too gentlemanly. Horse stuff!


25 posted on 10/03/2012 11:56:19 AM PDT by DoughtyOne (Imagine how bad these global protests would be, if Obama hadn't won us s o many new friends.)
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To: sickoflibs; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; stephenjohnbanker; NFHale
Look, I am willing to cut spending by $$$$ trillion in return for asking the rich to pay their fair share, just as much as the same tax rates a hard working school teacher must pay, but my opponent has committed himself to not raising any taxes even if he got 10 to 1 in spending cuts.

And to that softball, R could reply, "Who could believe any promise you make about spending cuts, after your promise to cut the deficit by 1/2 in 4 years, but you increased the debt to $16T?"

Can R hit a softball?

26 posted on 10/03/2012 12:14:29 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas

One can hope, but I’m not recommending holding your breath.


27 posted on 10/03/2012 12:18:12 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Imagine how bad these global protests would be, if Obama hadn't won us s o many new friends.)
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To: DoughtyOne
One can hope, but I’m not recommending holding your breath.

A wise policy!

28 posted on 10/03/2012 12:39:21 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; stephenjohnbanker; NFHale
Not bad, Thanks DDD, this is fun, playing the evil guy is always the blast :)

O :”Look, I am willing to cut spending by $$$$ trillion in return for asking the rich to pay their fair share, just as much as the same tax rates a hard working school teacher must pay, but my opponent has committed himself to not raising any taxes even if he got 10 to 1 in spending cuts.

R, “Who could believe any promise you make about spending cuts, after your promise to cut the deficit by 1/2 in 4 years, but you increased the debt to $16T?”

O :”It was my opponent who vowed to reject a 10 to 1 spending cut deal up front if you elect him POTUS. His promise had nothing to do with me being POTUS. I offered a huge spending cut deficit reduction deal to his House Rs but they all took HIS insane vow to protect the filthy rich at all costs and they all refused it at the go. That is why voters will re-elect me and put Speaker Pelosi back in charge so we can finish fixin America, even for that lower/middle income 47% he says he wont worry about. DA-DA“

29 posted on 10/03/2012 12:46:50 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; stephenjohnbanker; NFHale; Impy

The moral is :”Know your enemy if you want to defeat him”

If you depend on certain R entertainment shows (like Hannity) to learn this you will hear some straw man arguments being trunced, exact same with the D shows. They turn R arguments into silly straw men to knock down, Sharpton is the worst. Those shows make you feel good short term, but may not prepare you for the battle.

Another TV show worthless trick is to debate someone who claims to be on the other side who really agrees with you. Like Dems debating Steele on MSNBC representing Rs. On FNC its that Democrat who hates Democrats.

So to REALLY beat him you must know him so that you know what they will attack you with. Better to learn that before the fight.

I should be doing the mock debate with Mitts. You reading this MR ??


30 posted on 10/03/2012 1:19:22 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: sickoflibs; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; stephenjohnbanker; NFHale
O :”It was my opponent who vowed to reject a 10 to 1 spending cut deal up front if you elect him POTUS. His promise had nothing to do with me being POTUS. I offered a huge spending cut deficit reduction deal to his House Rs but they all took HIS insane vow to protect the filthy rich at all costs and they all refused it at the go. That is why voters will re-elect me and put Speaker Pelosi back in charge so we can finish fixin America, even for that lower/middle income 47% he says he wont worry about. DA-DA“

(Comment: I think there is a risk in throwing out too many targets in a debate statement. If you give your opponent a menu of subjects, he will pick the one he wants to respond to. Also, ordinary viewers might not remember long, complicated arguments, but they tend to remember short, pithy statements, as in Reagan-Carter. But my suggested zingers will not be anywhere near as good as those the experts compose.)

R: "You want to give control of the house back to Nancy Pelosi, who had absolute control of the House of Representatives during the first 2 years of your term, and increased spending dramatically during that period, to "help" you reduce the deficit? Again, not only did you fail to keep your promise to cut the deficit by 1/2 in 4 years, but you were very eager to sign the Stimulus and Obamacare bills, containing huge, wasteful projects such as Solyndra. You promise to save the hen house by making Pelosi the fox in charge."

31 posted on 10/03/2012 1:44:07 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: sickoflibs; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; stephenjohnbanker; NFHale; Impy
The moral is :”Know your enemy if you want to defeat him” If you depend on certain R entertainment shows (like Hannity) to learn this you will hear some straw man arguments being trunced, exact same with the D shows. They turn R arguments into silly straw men to knock down, Sharpton is the worst. Those shows make you feel good short term, but may not prepare you for the battle.

You got that right! They say Portman is an irritatingly realistic Obama impersonator. Who knows.

32 posted on 10/03/2012 1:49:34 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; stephenjohnbanker; NFHale; Impy; AuntB; ...

BTW :Its 10:00 PM EST here ~1 hour into the debate and I think Romney is doing much better than O in the debate. Really better. it’s standing out.

I think all that debate experience that Romney got this year is finally paying off.

Obama looks like the kid who skipped practice. He needs some work.

I loved the joke about O picking all the losers.


33 posted on 10/03/2012 7:05:28 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas

I think Romney is doing good. Obama is on the defense.


34 posted on 10/03/2012 7:06:24 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: sickoflibs; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; stephenjohnbanker; NFHale; Impy; AuntB

If SOL is praising R, it must have been a history making performance :)

But don’t forget that R may become the favorite for the second debate, which is not necessarily good in the “expectations game.”

Is it possible that Obama was sandbagging intentionally, like a poker player who wants to get caught betting on a weak hand so he can really clean up when he holds strong cards?


35 posted on 10/03/2012 8:47:53 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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To: sickoflibs; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; stephenjohnbanker; NFHale; Impy; ...
>> Romney is doing much better than O in the debate. Really better. it’s standing out. Obama looks like the kid who skipped practice. He needs some work. I loved the joke about O picking all the losers. <<

Ironically, the only portion of the debate I watched tonight was two minutes of it where Obama had the upper-hand and was slapping Romney around with how Romneycare differed little from Obamacare at the state level. (I didn't bother watching the rest of the debate since I'm not an "undecided voter", I can't stand listening to O's lies for too long, and I'm in the middle of a vampire movie marathon in October for Halloween... tonight I watched "30 Days of Night")

However, I'm looking at all the post-debate analysis, and even Michael Moore and Bill Maher seem to think Obama stepped it in and Romney won, so it couldn't have been a good night for Hussein.

I wonder what Newt Gingrich's fan club thinks now, since they kept pushing the mainstream media's kool-aid throughout the primary that " we HAVE TO nominate Newt because Obama is such an awesome and charismatic speaker that any Republican not named 'Newt Gingrich' will get killed in a debate with him"

The thing is, I missed tonight's debate but I've been watching the teleprompter-in-chief debate for the last 12 years, ever since the Bobby Rush-Barack Obama Dem primary in my congressional district, back in 2000. All his opponents have held their own in a debate with him. He can deliver written speeches very well but "off-the-cuff", Obama is not nearly as impressive. I can't believe some freepers bought into the "Obama is a masterful debater" BS. Either that or they were simply underestimating all the other GOP candidate's speaking ability. All of them were decent debaters except Perry.

36 posted on 10/03/2012 8:56:53 PM PDT by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: DoughtyOne

Romney, as you probably saw, did almost as you suggested. Didn’t hit many big punches in my opinion, didn’t ridicule as he should have the obvious demagogic cliches that were so predictable, and didn’t educate enough. Didn’t mention the class warfare, as he should have, didn’t name the manipulation as he should have, didn’t explain enough.


37 posted on 10/03/2012 8:59:40 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong!)
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; stephenjohnbanker; NFHale; Impy; AuntB
RE :If SOL is praising R, it must have been a history making performance :)

And I beat those MSNBC whiners. But they were the icing on the cake.

RE :”But don’t forget that R may become the favorite for the second debate, which is not necessarily good in the “expectations game.”
Is it possible that Obama was sandbagging intentionally, like a poker player who wants to get caught betting on a weak hand so he can really clean up when he holds strong cards

Possible? I had the exact same thoughts as you post above.
One of us is thinking like the other :)

If you listened to the MSNBC whiners they are saying they wanted Obama to take the SAME aggressive stance as I did when I played the mock Obama debater here today. They brought up the same points I used in my Obama debate simulation.

Yes, I think O played it a bit weak on purpose. He will come on much stronger in the following debates.

But, Romney put on a masterful performance, many on the Dem channel admitted it in similar terms. After the shock they been doing a 'Romney lied and Obama let him get away with it' whine-fest..smells like LOSERS :)

38 posted on 10/03/2012 9:06:58 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: BillyBoy; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; stephenjohnbanker; NFHale; Impy; ...
RE:”Ironically, the only portion of the debate I watched tonight was two minutes of it where Obama had the upper-hand and was slapping Romney around with how Romneycare differed little from Obamacare at the state level

In that exchange I thought MR made a great delivery of ‘the states are the right places, not the Fed government, to try these things’ line . (and I believe that, not sure Mittens really does)

I am not saying I like or trust Romney or even that he has great arguments, but he sounded like he did tonight, and that is all that counts in a debate.

39 posted on 10/03/2012 9:16:15 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; sickoflibs; BillyBoy
If SOL is praising R, it must have been a history making performance :)

admittedly i have never been able to stand looking at bambams face, and his voice grates my nerves as well...

i also wonder if he doesnt posess some kind of evil-spirit type hypnotic ability that can even reach thru photos and video.../tinfoil...maybe ???

anywho, i always thought that the bam sounded like a bumbling, stuttering idiot, even on the totus, much less downright embarassing when ad libbing...

as far as bambam being a 'master debater'??? maybe when reggie love is in town...IOW, a warm body in the room should clean house on him in a *debate*...and mitts had a lil practice lately, and used car salesmen are usually pretty good bull$h!tter$ too...

so, yeeeeaaaah, R *won* a debate, and moves closer to godhood...i guess i have to like him now ???

40 posted on 10/03/2012 9:21:33 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Gilbo_3
RE :”so, yeeeeaaaah, R *won* a debate, and moves closer to godhood...i guess i have to like him now ???

??? They are cleaning out that cell now you GOP dis-loyalist, you are either with us or against us, is that you Gilb on Amazon?

HA-HA, I know you love such talk.

41 posted on 10/03/2012 9:28:53 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; sickoflibs; BillyBoy
If SOL is praising R, it must have been a history making performance :)

admittedly i have never been able to stand looking at bambams face, and his voice grates my nerves as well...

i also wonder if he doesnt posess some kind of evil-spirit type hypnotic ability that can even reach thru photos and video.../tinfoil...maybe ???

anywho, i always thought that the bam sounded like a bumbling, stuttering idiot, even on the totus, much less downright embarassing when ad libbing...

as far as bambam being a 'master debater'??? maybe when reggie love is in town...IOW, a warm body in the room should clean house on him in a *debate*...and mitts had a lil practice lately, and used car salesmen are usually pretty good bull$h!tter$ too...

so, yeeeeaaaah, R *won* a debate, and moves closer to godhood...i guess i have to like him now ???

42 posted on 10/03/2012 9:29:43 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: sickoflibs
hehehe, try '3xoblig' for email addys out of tehran...lemme know if ahmaneedadinnerjacket sends pics of himself in a compromising position...

but seriously, i think im beginning to forget about homos in the scouts and robambamcare...

43 posted on 10/03/2012 9:34:59 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Gilbo_3; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; BillyBoy

The exact same comment at 40 and 42 ??
With my reply at 41?

a sandwich?


44 posted on 10/03/2012 9:36:09 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: sickoflibs

havent dbl posted in a while...prolly since last thon...


45 posted on 10/03/2012 9:42:52 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Gilbo_3

Yep, but you managed to skip one 41 that I got.

The site’s been hanging up tonight.


46 posted on 10/03/2012 9:47:16 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: sickoflibs
double post of bambam/reggie love master debating was worth it...now its tripled...

FUBHO...

47 posted on 10/03/2012 9:51:38 PM PDT by Gilbo_3 (Gov is not reason; not eloquent; its force.Like fire,a dangerous servant & master. George Washington)
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To: Gilbo_3; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; sickoflibs; Impy; Clintonfatigued
>> anywho, i always thought that the bam sounded like a bumbling, stuttering idiot, even on the totus, much less downright embarassing when ad libbing... as far as bambam being a 'master debater'??? maybe when reggie love is in town...IOW, a warm body in the room should clean house on him in a *debate*...and mitts had a lil practice lately, and used car salesmen are usually pretty good bull$h!tter$ too... <<

I'm just saying that several of Newt's hardcore fans on here told (warned) me over and over again during the primaries that UNLESS we nominated Newt, Obama would "destroy" the Republican nominee on the debate stage, because Obama is such a charismatic and slick talker and has the MSM in his corner.

Any Newt fans want to take that one back?

48 posted on 10/03/2012 10:13:30 PM PDT by BillyBoy ( Impeach Obama? Yes We Can!)
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To: BillyBoy; Gilbo_3; ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas; Impy; Clintonfatigued
RE :” I'm just saying that several of Newt's hardcore fans on here told (warned) me over and over again during the primaries that UNLESS we nominated Newt, Obama would “destroy” the Republican nominee on the debate stage, because Obama is such a charismatic and slick talker and has the MSM in his corner. Any Newt fans want to take that one back

Except Newt lost his cool and lost the later debates with MR. Newt does come up with some very clever lines that I like, but he has as much baggage as Romney does.

Romney strikes me as having more discipline and control on debate stage than Newt does under pressure(not talking interviews) .
But time will tell as Obama gets more aggressive in later debates. A good night for Mitts, but it;s far from over.

49 posted on 10/03/2012 10:34:28 PM PDT by sickoflibs (Romney is still a liberal. Just watch him. (Obama-ney Care ))
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To: sickoflibs; DoughtyOne; Gilbo_3; stephenjohnbanker; NFHale; Impy; AuntB
Yes, I think O played it a bit weak on purpose. He will come on much stronger in the following debates.

You noticed that O. did not mention the 47% directly (unless I missed it when I went to the bathroom)? He might be saving that for some crucial moment, or maybe he thinks only the attack ads, not the debates, matter.

Maybe Biden has dibs :)

50 posted on 10/03/2012 10:39:26 PM PDT by ding_dong_daddy_from_dumas (Fool me once, shame on you -- twice, shame on me -- 100 times, it's U. S. immigration policy.)
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