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Another way of speaking English disappears as fisherman's death spells demise of rare dialect
Fox News ^ | 10/3/2012 | Associated Press

Posted on 10/03/2012 10:21:04 AM PDT by FeliciaCat

In a remote fishing town on the tip of Scotland's Black Isle, the last native speaker of the Cromarty dialect has died, taking with him another little piece of the English linguistic mosaic.

Scottish academics said Wednesday that Bobby Hogg, who passed away last week at age 92, was the last person fluent in the dialect once common in the seaside town of Cromarty, about 175 miles (280 kilometers) north of Scottish capital Edinburgh.

The Biblically-influenced speech — complete with "thee" and "thou" — is one of many fading dialects which have been snuffed out across the British Isles.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: blackisle; cromarty; cromartydialect; dialect; godsgravesglyphs; language; scotland
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1 posted on 10/03/2012 10:21:09 AM PDT by FeliciaCat
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To: FeliciaCat

Not to worry...maybe Irish Islam dialect can replace it.


2 posted on 10/03/2012 10:22:53 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: FeliciaCat

So? Big deal.


3 posted on 10/03/2012 10:23:16 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: FeliciaCat

Yeah, but no one could understand a blasted thing the bloke was saying anyway...


4 posted on 10/03/2012 10:23:51 AM PDT by Fido969
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To: FeliciaCat

But we now have ebonics, Cajun, Boston, and like totally valley girl.


5 posted on 10/03/2012 10:24:19 AM PDT by Proud2BeRight
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To: circlecity

The thing to do if you do not have an interest in language is to simply skip the article.

I actually like to read the articles on FR that are about history, ancient cultures and languages, etc. There are a bunch of us who do.


6 posted on 10/03/2012 10:26:52 AM PDT by married21 (As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.)
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To: FeliciaCat

In a note left on his mantel, Mr. Hogg wrote “I had all you boffins fooled for 90 years.”


7 posted on 10/03/2012 10:28:04 AM PDT by Tijeras_Slim
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To: FeliciaCat
Was it a dialect? Or was he just drunk?

Mother forgive me.
RIP Mr. Hogg

8 posted on 10/03/2012 10:28:42 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (ua)
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To: married21
"The thing to do if you do not have an interest in language is to simply skip the article."

You use message boards the way you want and I'll use them the way I want to.

9 posted on 10/03/2012 10:31:05 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: FeliciaCat

10 posted on 10/03/2012 10:31:20 AM PDT by JoeProBono (A closed mouth gathers no feet - Mater tua caligas exercitus gerit ;-{)
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To: Proud2BeRight

Excuse me Miss. I speak Cromarty.

11 posted on 10/03/2012 10:32:11 AM PDT by billorites (freepo ergo sum)
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To: FeliciaCat

Snuffed out?! He was the last guy and no one else apparently wanted to learn it.


12 posted on 10/03/2012 10:33:04 AM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: circlecity

A huge deal. It astounds me that you don’t see it. It’s the last link to a people, a way of life and a mode of thought - an entire world was in that language.
I will never get used to the philistinism and reveling in ignorance of some members of FR.


13 posted on 10/03/2012 10:34:08 AM PDT by kabumpo (Kabumpo)
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To: FeliciaCat

That’s a shame.

However....there is still some of that left in the Yorkshire dialect (thee and thou) in the older generation. Took me a couple of months to tune my ear to it when I first moved there. ;-)


14 posted on 10/03/2012 10:34:19 AM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (Great vid by ShorelineMike! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOZjJk6nbD4&feature=plcp)
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To: ClearCase_guy
True story -- I knew a couple for a few years. Not too well, but my oldest daughter was friends with their daughter so we saw each other from time to time. I knew the mother was from Moscow. Heavy Russian accent, very little English, so conversation with her was very limited. Her husband was easier to talk too. Often hard to understand, but it seemed he knew more English, and his accent was not quite so heavy.

I knew them for over a year before I found out that he was not Russian. He was born in Canada, a native English speaker, but between very bad teeth, a speech impairment, and a drinking problem, I would have sworn that the guy was a Russian immigrant.

15 posted on 10/03/2012 10:35:11 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (ua)
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To: billorites

LOL!!!


16 posted on 10/03/2012 10:35:23 AM PDT by FeliciaCat (I like my money where I can see it...hanging in my closet.)
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To: circlecity

But the way you want is being a jerk. Really if a topic doesn’t interest you don’t click on it, it’s not hard. If you do click on it that’s your fault, if you don’t like the topic, that’s your fault, if you tell everybody it’s dull then the dullness actually comes from you.


17 posted on 10/03/2012 10:38:55 AM PDT by discostu (Put another dime in the jukebox.)
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To: FeliciaCat

I speak two languages. English and profane.


18 posted on 10/03/2012 10:38:55 AM PDT by Lurkina.n.Learnin (Ignorance is bliss- I'm stoked)
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To: FeliciaCat

Sounds like a fun guy to drink with.


19 posted on 10/03/2012 10:39:09 AM PDT by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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To: FeliciaCat

I noticed in National Geographic a month or two back that a man in Oklahoma is the last fluent speaker of Euchee. That is an Indian dialect of what was once a very large tribe.

The county seat of Walton County, FL used to be Eucheeanna. It was moved to DeFuniak Springs sometime after the War Between the States.


20 posted on 10/03/2012 10:40:24 AM PDT by yarddog
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To: married21
>>>I actually like to read the articles on FR that are about history, ancient cultures and languages, etc. There are a bunch of us who do.

Inevitably there is always some self-important Freeper who attempts to hijack the thread with 1) Their idiotic sense of humor or 2) The need to inform others that THEY don't care about the article...type of music...person in question.

To the first...I say grow up...it would be nice to actually have a mature conversation on FR sometimes without your need to be a comedian. If your that funny...go to Stand Up Night at the Improve.

To the second...I say...you aren't that important. We don't care about the fact you don't care. Go get your itch to feel needed scratched somewhere else...

Now...back to the article: I've always been fascinated by dialects. I even asked a history professor (a long time ago) about when our accent stopped being British. When would we describe it as distinctly American?...and I marvel when I listen to the accents of people from early film...and compare them to today. It's a big change in 70- 80 or so years.

21 posted on 10/03/2012 10:42:23 AM PDT by NELSON111
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To: kabumpo
"A huge deal. It astounds me that you don’t see it. It’s the last link to a people, a way of life and a mode of thought - an entire world was in that language."

Nonsense, what a drama queen. The disappearance of this dialect won't effect anyone's life in the slightest. I amazes me the frivolous things some freepers think are important.

22 posted on 10/03/2012 10:44:42 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: FeliciaCat
Across the world, regional languages and dialects have disappeared as rural populations move to urban areas and compulsory education and mass media combine to iron out the kinks in local speech.

True. "Standard" American and "standard" Brit speech patterns are spread far and wide by entertainment and news media, and have a way of rounding off the edges of regional accents.

They also have a way of spreading and popularizing speech patterns. There are things I think of as britishisms and even aussie-isms that have passed into popular speech (and I'm sure Brits and Aussies notice the same thing in reverse.

Jail speech has always been a source of new idioms, and again mass media has a way of making those mainstream so that something gangsters are saying in LA jails within a very few years are in mainstream speech in Little Rock.

Mass movements of people have the same effects; people are not staying put.

One of the things that intrigue me is the effort to revive celtic in the British Isles... Manx for example, Scottish, as wells as Irish which had never completely died out.

23 posted on 10/03/2012 10:45:54 AM PDT by marron
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To: discostu
"But the way you want is being a jerk."

I don't think so. And I don't care if you do. If you don't like my posts don't read them.

24 posted on 10/03/2012 10:46:16 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: stuartcr

Since it was a dialect it’s more about nobody doing it than nobody learning it. Any English speaker probably knows all the words, we just don’t put them together that way. People don’t tend to “learn” dialects, unless you move to a region that has a different dialect than your that’s very prevalent and you’re willing to adapt you’ll speak whatever dialect you grew up on, which for most people these days is “TV news anchor”.


25 posted on 10/03/2012 10:46:16 AM PDT by discostu (Put another dime in the jukebox.)
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To: kabumpo

It is a huge deal. I lived in Hawaii for several years and they were desperately trying to reclaim their language because so much of it had been lost with the death of elders. Once it’s forgotten and hasn’t been written down, it’s gone forever. That’s a tragedy. I thankfully finally got rid of cable tv. Every time someone on Fox said, “Mr XXXX, he...,” made me want to throw something at the tv. Proof reading and editing has become a lost art. It’s a sad commentary on our society. An acquaintance tried to argue with me about Ebonics being it’s own language. While that might be technically correct, good luck getting a decent job speaking it.


26 posted on 10/03/2012 10:46:25 AM PDT by pops88 (Standing with Breitbart for truth.)
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To: FeliciaCat

Well, at least we still have those fishermen who talk like the “Pepperidge Farm remembers” guy.


27 posted on 10/03/2012 10:47:27 AM PDT by Sloth (If a tax break counts as "spending" then every time I don't rob a bank should be a "deposit.")
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To: NELSON111

‘I even asked a history professor (a long time ago) about when our accent stopped being British. When would we describe it as distinctly American?.’

I have often wondered the same thing myself. One of my favorite periods of history is the colonial/Revolutionary period. BTW, the wife of our landlord is the head of Welsh studies at a local college. I want to pick her brain someday. :)


28 posted on 10/03/2012 10:48:02 AM PDT by Hoosier Catholic Momma (How long till my Arkansas drawl fades into the twang of southeast Ohio?)
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To: FeliciaCat

And when the old guy cursed... Man!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

... You smarmy lagerlout git. You bloody woofter sod. Bugger off, pillock. You grotty wanking oik artless base-court apple-john. You clouted boggish foot-licking twit. You dankish clack-dish plonker. You gormless crook-pated tosser. You churlish boil-brained clotpole ponce. You cockered bum-bailey poofter. You craven dewberry pisshead cockup pratting naff. You gob-kissing gleeking flap-mouthed coxcomb. You dread-bolted fobbing beef-witted clapper-clawed flirt-gill...


29 posted on 10/03/2012 10:48:42 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: circlecity

Doesn’t matter if you think so, it’s the truth. Dropping into a thread just to tell everybody you find the topic uninteresting is the path of the pathetic useless egomaniac that actually has nothing to be proud of. You advertise your ignorance, you boldly declare that you are worthless. Don’t worry, plenty of people here will be ignoring your useless declaration of shallow boredom from now on.


30 posted on 10/03/2012 10:49:01 AM PDT by discostu (Put another dime in the jukebox.)
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To: kabumpo
Your Statement: "... It’s the last link to a people, a way of life and a mode of thought - an entire world was in that language..."

Response: Agreed.

Comment: Therefore, there is a sadness involved with the passing of a dialect or language.

31 posted on 10/03/2012 10:49:25 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: FeliciaCat

Well if no one wanted to keep talking like that,then this is what happens.

It doesn’t sound like anything particularly incredible. Just lots of local slang and made up phrases for stuff like saying “At now kucka” when you want to say hello. or calling a dolphin a “tumbler”.

The reason why people stop using it because they couldn’t be understood.


32 posted on 10/03/2012 10:50:26 AM PDT by VanDeKoik
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To: FeliciaCat

I found a vid of him singing with family members! What a sweetie!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooTKOHkLLn0


33 posted on 10/03/2012 10:50:25 AM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (Great vid by ShorelineMike! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOZjJk6nbD4&feature=plcp)
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To: discostu

So it really wasn’t snuffed out, it just stopped being used.


34 posted on 10/03/2012 10:50:33 AM PDT by stuartcr ("When silence speaks, it speaks only to those that have already decided what they want to hear.")
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To: NELSON111
I marvel when I listen to the accents of people from early film...and compare them to today. It's a big change in 70- 80 or so years.

I notice the same thing. Its one of the things I enjoy about watching old flicks, the older the better. Too bad sound didn't come in any earlier.

35 posted on 10/03/2012 10:51:36 AM PDT by marron
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To: discostu
"Doesn’t matter if you think so, it’s the truth. Dropping into a thread just to tell everybody you find the topic uninteresting is the path of the pathetic useless egomaniac that actually has nothing to be proud of. You advertise your ignorance, you boldly declare that you are worthless. Don’t worry, plenty of people here will be ignoring your useless declaration of shallow boredom from now on."

So what? You cannot begin to comprehend how little I care whether you read my posts or not.

36 posted on 10/03/2012 10:52:37 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: FeliciaCat

All Scots speak Cromarty after a couple pints.


37 posted on 10/03/2012 10:53:29 AM PDT by Randy Larsen (Damned if I do, Damned if I don't. Damn it, I will!)
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To: FeliciaCat

Years ago I was surprised to learn that no one today has ever heard old English spoken,it died out so long ago.

This was an example of a dialect that has now also passed away and will not be heard again. A contact with the past now that belongs to the past.

I wonder if they anywhere have this man’s speech recorded? Would’ve been a good idea.

Fascinating article. Thank you for posting.


38 posted on 10/03/2012 10:58:02 AM PDT by Beowulf9
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To: circlecity

You don’t know much about English, do you, ending a sentence with a preposition as you did. Here’s something for you to consider: idiocy is not a form of intellect.


39 posted on 10/03/2012 10:59:52 AM PDT by beelzepug ("0bama is a feckless crapweasel")
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To: FeliciaCat

Reminds me that the southern accent is rapidly disappearing in the USA. Visit just about any hamlet in the rural South, where most people over 40 talk pretty much like Andy Griffith — while the teenage waitresses at IHOP usually talk like Valley Girls. A sad development, IMO.


40 posted on 10/03/2012 11:02:51 AM PDT by Hawthorn
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To: pops88

‘Ebonics (be) its own language’ is a ruse to get federal money for non-English speakers for the schools, doncha know? It is NOT a language; street dialect perhaps. Many dialects in Germany, but they all know Hoch Deutsch.


41 posted on 10/03/2012 11:03:40 AM PDT by bboop (does not suffer fools gladly)
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To: Sloth
Well, at least we still have those fishermen who talk like the “Pepperidge Farm remembers” guy.

There are numerous seaside redoubts in downeast Maine and mountain hamlets here in New Hampshire where people still sound just like that. Most of them are my age or older. Unfortunately, many of the younger folk in southern New England increasingly sound like sitcom TV characters.

The old accents are colorful, while the new ones just fade into bland sameness. I still enjoy giving directions to lost visitors from New York and the mid-Atlantic, if only to smile and offer: "You cahn't get they-uh from hee-uh". Sometimes, I wish I was wearing my old black-and-red plaid jacket and the hat with ear flaps, just to complete the image for them.

42 posted on 10/03/2012 11:04:16 AM PDT by andy58-in-nh (Cogito, ergo armatum sum: "I think, therefore I am armed".)
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To: stuartcr

Yeah. Regional dialects have all been suffering in the age of electronic communication. TV and radio push a standardized dialect with a lot of strength. Dialects like this one was probably never used by more than a few hundred people at the same time, as the village got smaller, as more of the people living there grew up talking like what they heard on the TV and radio rather than their parents that number dwindled until it was eventually just one really old guy. Used to be almost every town or village had some sort of variation even from a town a mile away, then we started traveling more, then came radio. The forces of history are hard on small region dialects. Heck even large region dialects are suffering, lots of people that grew up in the South don’t sound Southern anymore.


43 posted on 10/03/2012 11:05:14 AM PDT by discostu (Put another dime in the jukebox.)
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To: circlecity

The people who feel a need to boldly declare they don’t care what other people think are the ones that care the most. People who really don’t care don’t care enough to say it.


44 posted on 10/03/2012 11:06:18 AM PDT by discostu (Put another dime in the jukebox.)
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To: circlecity

Wouldn’t you be more at home over at D.U. with the rest of the thickwits?


45 posted on 10/03/2012 11:07:44 AM PDT by beelzepug ("0bama is a feckless crapweasel")
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To: bboop
Ebonics be a language
As dead as Mr. T.
It killed off all my homies
And now i's killin' me.

Word.

46 posted on 10/03/2012 11:08:02 AM PDT by andy58-in-nh (Cogito, ergo armatum sum: "I think, therefore I am armed".)
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To: circlecity

It’s obvious the article doesn’t appeal to your intellect so why bother commenting about it?


47 posted on 10/03/2012 11:08:08 AM PDT by Rebelbase (The most transparent administration ever is clear as mud.)
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To: FeliciaCat

My Mother’s family came from an island in the inner Hebrides called Colonsay. I once looked on their web site and noticed there are several Gaelic speakers on the island.

I would guess the Western Islands have the most Gaelic speaker in Scotland and probably by a long way. I have also read that the Western Islands are last bastion of devout Christians.


48 posted on 10/03/2012 11:09:34 AM PDT by yarddog
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To: discostu
"The people who feel a need to boldly declare they don’t care what other people think are the ones that care the most. People who really don’t care don’t care enough to say it."

OK

49 posted on 10/03/2012 11:09:55 AM PDT by circlecity
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To: circlecity
The sad fact is it's news that ‘something’ is lost forever, but nobody knows exactly what it is.

We know it was a language dialect of some sort, but since it's lost, we are all equally ignorant.

50 posted on 10/03/2012 11:10:48 AM PDT by Beagle8U (Free Republic -- One stop shopping ....... It's the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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