Skip to comments.Europe’s Richer Regions Want Out
Posted on 10/06/2012 1:51:04 PM PDT by presidio9
CATALONIA may be the catalyst for a renewed wave of separatism in the European Union, with Scotland and Flanders not far behind. The great paradox of the European Union, which is built on the concept of shared sovereignty, is that it lowers the stakes for regions to push for independence.
While a post-national European Union may be emerging out of the euro zone crisis, with a drive for more fiscal union and more centralized control over national budgets and banks, the crisis has accelerated calls for independence from member countries richer regions, angry at having to finance poorer neighbors.
Artur Mas, the Catalan president, recently shook Spain and the markets with a call for early regional elections and promised a referendum on independence from Spain, although Madrid considers it illegal. Scotland is planning an independence referendum for the autumn of 2014. The Flemish in Flanders have achieved nearly total autonomy, both administrative and linguistic, but still resent what they consider to be the holdover hegemony of the French-speakers of Wallonia and the Brussels elite, emotions that will be on display in provincial and communal elections Oct. 14.
There are countless things that hold unhappy countries, like marriages, together shared history, shared wars, shared children, shared enemies. But the economic crisis in the European Union is also highlighting old grievances.
Many in Catalonia and Flanders, for example, argue that they pay significantly more into the national treasury than they receive, even as national governments cut public services. In this sense, the regional argument is the euro zone argument writ small, as richer northern countries like Germany, Finland and Austria complain that their comparative wealth and success are being drained to keep countries like Greece, Portugal and Spain afloat.
The crisis has also produced a loss of
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
With the possible exception of claiming N. Sea oil, just where is the great wealth of today’s Scotland—where government spending is over 50% of GDP?
Don’t take your Euros away from me
Don’t you leave my banks in misery
If you go then we’ll be screwed
‘Cause breaking up his hard to do
Remember when you bailed us out
And with your balance sheets you gave us clout
All the austerity that we’ve been through
Breaking up is hard to do
They say that breaking up is hard to do
Now I know, I know that it’s true
Flanders and Scotland, please don’t go
Catalonia, don’t you love Spain no mo?
I beg of you, don’t say goodbye
Give the Euro pact another try
Come on baby, let’s start anew
‘Cause breaking up is hard to do
Financial services, manufacturing, tourism, fishing, luxery items, coal, zinc, iron.
You are talking to a Scots-American who hasn’t had a drink in seven years...
Scotland would also be left with the Bank of Scotland’s bad debt. On the plus side, they would be free from the EU’s control.
I thought that luxuries was referring to stuff like haggis, woolens, Roman coins, ....
I misread the first word as California and thought it was going to be about our more productive regions wanting out leaving socialist states like NY and CA to fend for themselves instead of leaching off others..
No you can’t go who will pay for all the deadbeats we created. Socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money, the responsible peoples money
What” Not going to thrown themselves on the socialist sword for the good of the EU .... how selfish and unpatriotic of them!
Cultural factors help too, such as: Work ethic, austerity, ability to think logically and respect facts.
Haggis is always good for a laugh from the uninitiated, but it can actually be delicious. Scottish smoked salmon is considered the finest in the world. As are their adult beverages, which you seem to enjoy, and I used to. That being said, aside from modern economics, Scotland’s greatest gift to the world was its national sport, which is the greatest game ever invented.
The scotch wells and the haggis mines.
It is doomed to failure eventually because of just the points made in the article....the rich get sick of subsidizing the poor, plain and simple.
You can't fool Mother Nature and human nature....for long.
In my lifetime, there has not been a year in which California has not supplied much more to the Federal treasury than has been allocated here. So could you please explain what you mean by California "leaching off others"?
I would love to see globalism take a nose dive beginning with Europe. Globalists suck. It’s a nasty ideology.
I guess any elitist group dreaming of ruling the whole world and controling the wealth of the world is bad news. Whether it is based in Russia, Germany or a “diversity” of elitists from Saudi Arabia, Europe and America, the same outcome of mass murder, oppression and suffering is guarenteed.
Let every nation have it’s own native culture and struggle for it’s own well being as the people of that Nation see fit. Ditch the “citizen of world” elites’ dreams of controling the globe.
No, silly. Caber tossing.
Scotland would be better off in the long run, forced to stand on their own.
I was going to mention the poached [ ;-) ]salmon, but didn’t know how much was exported.
The distilling industry is in trouble at the moment.
Manufacturing and mining have long since gone to the dogs. No one in the developed world makes much any more - there just simply isnt any money in it.
The Fishing industry is in steep decline. So is the principal luxury items (scotch). Mostly through over fishing, rising costs and EU regulations.
Tourism is fine, but it isn't going to keep the country afloat. Scots can't survive by selling each other postcards and whiskey.
Basically they want to be a independant nation-state with full membership in an organisation dedicated to replacing all national governments with a European super state.
And Americans try and persuade me that Joe Biden is the most mentally challenged politician on the planet...
Haggis is a luxury???????
Doesn’t delicacy = luxury?
“...socialist states like NY and CA to fend for themselves instead of leaching off others..”
Believe it or not, NY State sends more money out to the federal government than it receives back in funding.
Amazing but true.
More like hideous, unhealthy, low-cost bulk foodstuff = delicacy (if you are an advertiser)
Show me the stats on that.
From a reliable source of course.
Show me the stats on that.
From a reliable source of course.
socialism is great ‘til you run out of other peoples’ money. amen maggie!
The reason is obvious: Consider the income levels necessary to pay for the expensive real estate here. Those high incomes pay higher income taxes, as do all the fabulously successful high tech companies out here. That high cost of living sends people elsewhere to retire. Hence, high net revenue transfer.
Most online sources don't go back very far, but if you need an example try the numbers from 1990-98 from the Statistical Abstract of the United States. Be sure to compare them with other States which you think so frugal. There are quite a few surprises in that listing.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan, then Senator from New York, is the guy who got the Federal Gov’t to start measuring the net contribution to/benefit from the federal treasury. Bill payers and beneficiaries.
Who benefits the most? Puerto Rico, New Mexico, Mississippi and West Virginia (2 to 1 ratio)
Who pays the bill? Delaware and Minnesota (1 to 2).
California was long a bill payer, but has recently slipped to being a net recipient. New York is still a big bill payer.
“From a reliable source of course.”
What will you take as reliable?
Because usually whenever somebody puts it that way, what they are really saying is “I am not going to believe you no matter what just because I say so”
But for starters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state
Socialist, in a debate with Milton Friedman:” In Sweden there are no poor” upon which Friedman replied “In America, there are no poor Swedes.”
And here is another factoid and the source:
“New York transferred over $950 billion to the rest of America’s fiscal union from 1990 to 2009.”
What does “paralyzed in amber” mean on the page 2 reference to Berlin? Anybody?
I should certainly HOPE so! Population of Scotland: 5mm. Population of England: 50mm.
No, that would be "gof." Without the "L."
I'm told the president is a fan.
Same thing the tinfoil hat crew in flyover country is talking about when the suggest that NY is doing the same.
Have either of you two goofballs ever actually tried haggis?
For starters, wikipedia never qualifies as a reliable primary resource.
So basically youre trying to put forth a false narrative because you know that the Wikipedia ISNT a reliable source.