Skip to comments.Europe’s Richer Regions Want Out
Posted on 10/06/2012 1:51:04 PM PDT by presidio9
CATALONIA may be the catalyst for a renewed wave of separatism in the European Union, with Scotland and Flanders not far behind. The great paradox of the European Union, which is built on the concept of shared sovereignty, is that it lowers the stakes for regions to push for independence.
While a post-national European Union may be emerging out of the euro zone crisis, with a drive for more fiscal union and more centralized control over national budgets and banks, the crisis has accelerated calls for independence from member countries richer regions, angry at having to finance poorer neighbors.
Artur Mas, the Catalan president, recently shook Spain and the markets with a call for early regional elections and promised a referendum on independence from Spain, although Madrid considers it illegal. Scotland is planning an independence referendum for the autumn of 2014. The Flemish in Flanders have achieved nearly total autonomy, both administrative and linguistic, but still resent what they consider to be the holdover hegemony of the French-speakers of Wallonia and the Brussels elite, emotions that will be on display in provincial and communal elections Oct. 14.
There are countless things that hold unhappy countries, like marriages, together shared history, shared wars, shared children, shared enemies. But the economic crisis in the European Union is also highlighting old grievances.
Many in Catalonia and Flanders, for example, argue that they pay significantly more into the national treasury than they receive, even as national governments cut public services. In this sense, the regional argument is the euro zone argument writ small, as richer northern countries like Germany, Finland and Austria complain that their comparative wealth and success are being drained to keep countries like Greece, Portugal and Spain afloat.
The crisis has also produced a loss of
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
No, it's up to me to provide an irrefutable rationale, with supporting data from an irrefutable source, which I did.
As time goes on and the productive leave the vampire state that is bound to change.
I believe Charlie Scheen was “paralyzed in Amber” for a few years back in the late 90’s...
I could say that I heard that Obama is a felon now YOU have to prove he isnt.
You can begin your research here: www.britannica.com and I hear goggle is pretty good.
There, I provided the irrefutable rationale and a irrefutable source Now, off you go and dont come back until you proven the Dear Liar doesnt belong in jail.
I gave you a Google scan of a US Census Bureau document. If that’s not good enough for you, stick it.
The biggie is to get people understanding the principal reasons for California's positive balance of Federal payments v. tax receipts, having to do with high costs of living driving away retirees and more people earning high incomes paying higher marginal rates. If they whine for more after that, it's gamesmanship I'm not going to coddle any more.
Congrats - decided I had already used up my share some 24 years ago.
Yes, but the city of london financial services industry is more than ten times that of Scotland.
And if you are poor and just getting by up in the damp, dreary Highlands with the midges and the fleas that's fine. Better to eat than not to. Its the advertisers who have rebadged it as some kind of "luxury" food - to me a blatant attempt to make a virtue out of a neccesity - that I blame. Scots at least can see the distinction. Very few of them eat the stuff by choice now. The new national food of Scotland is assorted curry dishes. Haggis is for tourists and export.
I too quit drinking Scotch. My theory is you can only drink so much in a lifetime and I reached my quota before I died.
And golf? “A game that can only be played but never won”?
Another thought.....Whole countries “going Galt”? What a concept. Saints preserve if some of our states get this idea. (nodding in agreement).
Great minds......hehehe. And nobody mentioned Kilts? Lazuras Long would be disappointed.
Plenty of Scots, me included, eat haggis.
Doen properly, its lovely. Biggest problem is those who dont it properly end up with it being dry.
Hey, have you proven that the Dear Liar isnt a felon yet?
Don't need to. I've allowed you to prove yourself an idiot not worth the time.
So I've heard...frankly, I would've considered him more of a hopscotch enthusiast.
I’ve often though about just that. Is there nothing in the
constitution about kicking out bad states? We tried it the
other way once and it didn’t work out for those who wanted
to leave, maybe we should go the expulsion route.
As with Greece, the rest of the Eurotrash won’t be reasonably solid until they quit lying about how much their debt actually is. It would clearly be in their best interest to make the Euro work but it ain’t really happening until they ‘fess up.
I gave you another source. I could give you sources until the cows come home but you CHOOSE to remain ignorant so there is nothing further for me to say to you.
And as for accusing me of trying to “put forth a false narrative” you have just called me a liar.
Go screw yourself.
I provided an irrefutable rationale, with supporting data from an irrefutable source, and according to your own logic, Now its your obligation to prove my point.
So have you done that yet?
Have you proven that our dear liar of a faux-president is in fact not a felon?
Well Ive already proven you are ill tempered.
At some point we are going to have to consider that possibility.
Just as some member of the European union may need to be ejected, circumstances here may warrant similar actions.
After all, what incentive is there for some states to be fiscally responsible when they can simply take from other states?
For me, it’s not even the money so much as the ideas and
legal precedence that come out of those two places that make
me fear for the future of this country.
I would love to see globalism take a nose dive beginning with Europe. Globalists suck. Its a nasty ideology.
I guess any elitist group dreaming of ruling the whole world and controling the wealth of the world is bad news. Whether it is based in Russia, Germany or a diversity of elitists from Saudi Arabia, Europe and America, the same outcome of mass murder, oppression and suffering is guarenteed.
Let every nation have its own native culture and struggle for its own well being as the people of that Nation see fit. Ditch the citizen of world elites dreams of controling the globe.
Globalism, Free Trade, and the “Kumbaya Lets All Hold Hands In Unity” nonsense has been a big failure. It has done nothing but redistribute the wealth of the richer nations and gave to poorer ones...and those poorer ones got not better in the process
The thing that is really troubling is that you have people here in the US that want a similar EU-type of thing for North America...even while the EU is crumbling. Only a fool and a idiot would want a North American Union while the European Union is proving that such a body is an abject failure
The best thing that these regions can do is split from their parent nations, and split from the EU. Free Trade Globalism has failed...the Titanic has hit the iceberg....and its time to abandon ship
Source please. RBS is the tenth largest bank in the world with $2.5mmmm in assets. London has HSBC and Barclays, but together they are only about twice the size of the Royal Bank of Scotland.
I’m not sure where you got the idea that haggis was some sort of haute cuisine, but you could make the same points you are making against hot dogs.
My point is that the name is sort of off-putting but most people who have a problem with haggis have never tried it.
I think it would be great if this were to actually happen. In general, I think it would benefit conservatives more than the left, for one thing, although I think that as a matter of principle it’s a good thing too.
Let’s think about the likely results for a moment. Sure, Scotland is a left-wing nation and an independent Scotland will stay in the stifling EU. Fine, but far more importantly, without the Scots England will shift noticeably to the right and it will be easier for the Torries to win again in the future (and hopefully not only in coalition with left-wingers).
Like the Scots, the Catalans are very lefty. So, once more the bulk of Spain would shift to the right without Catalonia, while Catalonia won’t have to keep giving over its hard-earned money to poorer neighbors. A win-win situation, I’d say.
The situation in Flanders is quite different, however. Flanders is the largest area in Belgium and the nationalists there are on the right rather than the left. If Flanders gets its independence, its leaders are almost certain to implement anti-Islamic immigration measures that may save the area from eventual Islamic demographic take-over, as is projected to happen in other European countries. Besides this, Flanders will become a richer nation almost overnight. Considering the Dutch Flemings and the French Walloons have little in common, certainly less than the Scots and English or Catalans and Spanish, I think the Flemish have a great claim to independence and the idea has been popular there for a while now.
Beyond this, I just think that one nation of people shouldn’t be controlled by a different group of people against their will. It’s anti-democratic. And any way, all these areas once were independent after all. Why shouldn’t they have the right to be independent once again if the majority of their people want it that way?
The financial services industry is more than just banks, but in any case London has Natwest, LLoyds/TSB and several others. They also have a controlling interest in RBS, which since the financial crisis is now mostly owned by the British government.
Yeah! For God and Ulster! and...the South will rise again!!!
So check this out:
Mel: "Freedom... hey, where's everybody going?"
All: "Free stuff! over there ..."
If you don't think a hot dog can be a
luxey item haute cuisine a regular necessity, you my friend have never been to Walter's in Mamaroneck NY.
As much as I am enjoying our little conversation here, there comes a point where someone needs to admit that they are in a little bit over their head and arguing for argument's sake. I'm afraid that you have just reached that point. Your original point of contention was that Scotland's financial services industry is insigificant, which is simply not true. Your most recent post here makes it clear that you are unaware of the fact that (1) RBS owns Natwest, and (2) the British Government (of which Scotland is still currently a part) made similiar investments in both RBS and Lloyds TSB as part of the 2008 UK rescue package.
I know that the British Government intervened in several banks during the financial crisis. That is not the point I am trying to make. If a large proportion of RBS, Scotland's largest bank, is owned by the British Government, that means that a large amount of RBS is owned by the BRITISH people. And England and Wales make up 90% of Britain's population. That makes it OUR bank, not Scotlands.