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Europe’s Richer Regions Want Out
The New York Times ^ | October 6, 2012 | STEVEN ERLANGER

Posted on 10/06/2012 1:51:04 PM PDT by presidio9

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1 posted on 10/06/2012 1:51:07 PM PDT by presidio9
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To: presidio9

With the possible exception of claiming N. Sea oil, just where is the great wealth of today’s Scotland—where government spending is over 50% of GDP?


2 posted on 10/06/2012 2:07:23 PM PDT by Lysandru
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To: presidio9

Don’t take your Euros away from me
Don’t you leave my banks in misery
If you go then we’ll be screwed
‘Cause breaking up his hard to do

Remember when you bailed us out
And with your balance sheets you gave us clout
All the austerity that we’ve been through
Breaking up is hard to do

They say that breaking up is hard to do
Now I know, I know that it’s true
Flanders and Scotland, please don’t go
Catalonia, don’t you love Spain no mo?

I beg of you, don’t say goodbye
Give the Euro pact another try
Come on baby, let’s start anew
‘Cause breaking up is hard to do


3 posted on 10/06/2012 2:12:18 PM PDT by southernnorthcarolina ("Better be wise by the misfortunes of others than by your own." -- Aesop)
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To: Lysandru
With the possible exception of claiming N. Sea oil, just where is the great wealth of today’s Scotland

Financial services, manufacturing, tourism, fishing, luxery items, coal, zinc, iron.

4 posted on 10/06/2012 2:22:28 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9

Scotch.


5 posted on 10/06/2012 2:34:12 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

“luxery items”


6 posted on 10/06/2012 2:35:37 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9
Scotch is much like Aquavit(a).

A necessity.

7 posted on 10/06/2012 2:37:12 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

You are talking to a Scots-American who hasn’t had a drink in seven years...


8 posted on 10/06/2012 2:41:09 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: Lysandru

Scotland would also be left with the Bank of Scotland’s bad debt. On the plus side, they would be free from the EU’s control.


9 posted on 10/06/2012 2:41:28 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: presidio9

I thought that luxuries was referring to stuff like haggis, woolens, Roman coins, ....


10 posted on 10/06/2012 2:55:14 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: presidio9

Heh.

I misread the first word as California and thought it was going to be about our more productive regions wanting out leaving socialist states like NY and CA to fend for themselves instead of leaching off others..


11 posted on 10/06/2012 2:58:46 PM PDT by Voice of Reason1 (Absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton 1887)
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To: presidio9

No you can’t go who will pay for all the deadbeats we created. Socialism is great until you run out of other peoples money, the responsible peoples money


12 posted on 10/06/2012 3:03:44 PM PDT by ronnie raygun (bb)
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To: presidio9

What” Not going to thrown themselves on the socialist sword for the good of the EU .... how selfish and unpatriotic of them!


13 posted on 10/06/2012 3:03:44 PM PDT by RetiredTexasVet (The law of unintended consequences is an unforgiving and vindictive b!tch!)
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To: presidio9

Cultural factors help too, such as: Work ethic, austerity, ability to think logically and respect facts.


14 posted on 10/06/2012 3:12:31 PM PDT by Eleutheria5 (End the occupation. Annex today.)
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To: Paladin2

Haggis is always good for a laugh from the uninitiated, but it can actually be delicious. Scottish smoked salmon is considered the finest in the world. As are their adult beverages, which you seem to enjoy, and I used to. That being said, aside from modern economics, Scotland’s greatest gift to the world was its national sport, which is the greatest game ever invented.


15 posted on 10/06/2012 3:18:01 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: Lysandru

The scotch wells and the haggis mines.


16 posted on 10/06/2012 3:35:47 PM PDT by NonValueAdded (HH: "Obama just doesnÂ’t really understand what he was talking about on subject after subject")
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To: presidio9
Scotland’s greatest gift to the world was its national sport, which is the greatest game ever invented.

Hopscotch?

17 posted on 10/06/2012 3:36:38 PM PDT by Moltke ("I am Dr. Sonderborg," he said, "and I don't want any nonsense.")
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To: presidio9; mickie
The whole Euro system is communism and Obama's redistribution of wealth....no matter how you slice the haggis.

It is doomed to failure eventually because of just the points made in the article....the rich get sick of subsidizing the poor, plain and simple.

You can't fool Mother Nature and human nature....for long.

Leni

18 posted on 10/06/2012 3:43:21 PM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: Lysandru

good question


19 posted on 10/06/2012 3:43:47 PM PDT by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Voice of Reason1
I misread the first word as California and thought it was going to be about our more productive regions wanting out leaving socialist states like NY and CA to fend for themselves instead of leaching off others.

In my lifetime, there has not been a year in which California has not supplied much more to the Federal treasury than has been allocated here. So could you please explain what you mean by California "leaching off others"?

20 posted on 10/06/2012 3:47:08 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
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To: presidio9

I would love to see globalism take a nose dive beginning with Europe. Globalists suck. It’s a nasty ideology.

I guess any elitist group dreaming of ruling the whole world and controling the wealth of the world is bad news. Whether it is based in Russia, Germany or a “diversity” of elitists from Saudi Arabia, Europe and America, the same outcome of mass murder, oppression and suffering is guarenteed.

Let every nation have it’s own native culture and struggle for it’s own well being as the people of that Nation see fit. Ditch the “citizen of world” elites’ dreams of controling the globe.


21 posted on 10/06/2012 3:55:55 PM PDT by SaraJohnson
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To: Moltke
Hopscotch?

No, silly. Caber tossing.

22 posted on 10/06/2012 3:59:52 PM PDT by abishai
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To: Lysandru

Scotland would be better off in the long run, forced to stand on their own.


23 posted on 10/06/2012 4:17:23 PM PDT by Skulllspitter
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To: presidio9

I was going to mention the poached [ ;-) ]salmon, but didn’t know how much was exported.


24 posted on 10/06/2012 4:19:44 PM PDT by Paladin2
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Support Free Republic. We expose the Left!


25 posted on 10/06/2012 4:37:51 PM PDT by RedMDer (https://support.woundedwarriorproject.org/default.aspx?tsid=93destr)
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To: presidio9

26 posted on 10/06/2012 4:38:06 PM PDT by InvisibleChurch (the mature Christian is almost impossible to offend)
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To: Paladin2

The distilling industry is in trouble at the moment.


27 posted on 10/06/2012 5:09:47 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: presidio9
Scotland's imput on Financial services is very small, certainly in comparison to City of London.

Manufacturing and mining have long since gone to the dogs. No one in the developed world makes much any more - there just simply isnt any money in it.

The Fishing industry is in steep decline. So is the principal luxury items (scotch). Mostly through over fishing, rising costs and EU regulations.

Tourism is fine, but it isn't going to keep the country afloat. Scots can't survive by selling each other postcards and whiskey.

28 posted on 10/06/2012 5:14:13 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Viennacon
Au contraire. The Scottish National Party is totally committed to closer and tighter links with the EU. You might at first glance think that this is an odd policy commitment for an independence movement but it all makes perfect sense if you are of a dedicated socialist persuasion.

Basically they want to be a independant nation-state with full membership in an organisation dedicated to replacing all national governments with a European super state.

And Americans try and persuade me that Joe Biden is the most mentally challenged politician on the planet...

29 posted on 10/06/2012 5:23:17 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Paladin2

Haggis is a luxury???????


30 posted on 10/06/2012 5:24:19 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Vanders9

Doesn’t delicacy = luxury?


31 posted on 10/06/2012 5:27:21 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Voice of Reason1

“...socialist states like NY and CA to fend for themselves instead of leaching off others..”

Believe it or not, NY State sends more money out to the federal government than it receives back in funding.

Amazing but true.


32 posted on 10/06/2012 5:29:23 PM PDT by Nik Naym (It's not my fault... I have compulsive smartass disorder.)
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To: Paladin2

More like hideous, unhealthy, low-cost bulk foodstuff = delicacy (if you are an advertiser)


33 posted on 10/06/2012 5:34:23 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Carry_Okie

Show me the stats on that.

From a reliable source of course.


34 posted on 10/06/2012 5:50:56 PM PDT by Voice of Reason1 (Absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton 1887)
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To: Nik Naym

Show me the stats on that.

From a reliable source of course.


35 posted on 10/06/2012 5:52:28 PM PDT by Voice of Reason1 (Absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton 1887)
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To: presidio9

socialism is great ‘til you run out of other peoples’ money. amen maggie!


36 posted on 10/06/2012 6:17:14 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Voice of Reason1
Show me the stats on that.

The reason is obvious: Consider the income levels necessary to pay for the expensive real estate here. Those high incomes pay higher income taxes, as do all the fabulously successful high tech companies out here. That high cost of living sends people elsewhere to retire. Hence, high net revenue transfer.

Most online sources don't go back very far, but if you need an example try the numbers from 1990-98 from the Statistical Abstract of the United States. Be sure to compare them with other States which you think so frugal. There are quite a few surprises in that listing.

37 posted on 10/06/2012 6:23:04 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
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To: Nik Naym

Daniel Patrick Moynihan, then Senator from New York, is the guy who got the Federal Gov’t to start measuring the net contribution to/benefit from the federal treasury. Bill payers and beneficiaries.

Who benefits the most? Puerto Rico, New Mexico, Mississippi and West Virginia (2 to 1 ratio)

Who pays the bill? Delaware and Minnesota (1 to 2).

California was long a bill payer, but has recently slipped to being a net recipient. New York is still a big bill payer.


38 posted on 10/06/2012 6:33:18 PM PDT by BeauBo
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To: Voice of Reason1

“From a reliable source of course.”

What will you take as reliable?

Because usually whenever somebody puts it that way, what they are really saying is “I am not going to believe you no matter what just because I say so”

But for starters: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_taxation_and_spending_by_state


39 posted on 10/06/2012 6:56:57 PM PDT by Nik Naym (It's not my fault... I have compulsive smartass disorder.)
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To: Eleutheria5

Socialist, in a debate with Milton Friedman:” In Sweden there are no poor” upon which Friedman replied “In America, there are no poor Swedes.”


40 posted on 10/06/2012 7:02:15 PM PDT by Tea Party Terrorist (Your tattoo looks stupid.)
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To: Lysandru

Haggis!


41 posted on 10/06/2012 7:05:17 PM PDT by Reily (l)
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To: Voice of Reason1

And here is another factoid and the source:

“New York transferred over $950 billion to the rest of America’s fiscal union from 1990 to 2009.”

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/08/americas-fiscal-union


42 posted on 10/06/2012 7:09:22 PM PDT by Nik Naym (It's not my fault... I have compulsive smartass disorder.)
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To: presidio9; All

What does “paralyzed in amber” mean on the page 2 reference to Berlin? Anybody?


43 posted on 10/06/2012 7:11:30 PM PDT by prairiebreeze (Don't be afraid to see what you see. -- Ronald Reagan)
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To: Vanders9
Scotland's imput on Financial services is very small, certainly in comparison to City of London.

I should certainly HOPE so! Population of Scotland: 5mm. Population of England: 50mm.

44 posted on 10/06/2012 7:16:16 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: Moltke

No, that would be "gof." Without the "L."

I'm told the president is a fan.

45 posted on 10/06/2012 7:19:48 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: Carry_Okie
In my lifetime, there has not been a year in which California has not supplied much more to the Federal treasury than has been allocated here. So could you please explain what you mean by California "leaching off others"?

Same thing the tinfoil hat crew in flyover country is talking about when the suggest that NY is doing the same.

46 posted on 10/06/2012 7:21:41 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: Paladin2; Vanders9

Have either of you two goofballs ever actually tried haggis?


47 posted on 10/06/2012 7:23:25 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: Nik Naym

For starters, wikipedia never qualifies as a reliable primary resource.


48 posted on 10/06/2012 7:25:01 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: Nik Naym

So basically you’re trying to put forth a false narrative because you know that the Wikipedia ISN’T a reliable source.

Try again.


49 posted on 10/06/2012 7:40:56 PM PDT by Voice of Reason1 (Absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton 1887)
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To: Carry_Okie
Sorry to be so cryptic - Show me the stats on that means show me recent data from a reliable source instead of tying the Wild Goose Chase Gambit. Since YOU are the one making the claim, it is up to YOU to find the information from an accredited information source (i.e. NOT the ‘wiki’) and quote it here for everyone to see. Can you do that?
50 posted on 10/06/2012 7:52:06 PM PDT by Voice of Reason1 (Absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton 1887)
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