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Europe’s Richer Regions Want Out
The New York Times ^ | October 6, 2012 | STEVEN ERLANGER

Posted on 10/06/2012 1:51:04 PM PDT by presidio9

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To: Voice of Reason1
Since YOU are the one making the claim, it is up to YOU to find the information from an accredited information source (i.e. NOT the ‘wiki’) and quote it here for everyone to see. Can you do that?

No, it's up to me to provide an irrefutable rationale, with supporting data from an irrefutable source, which I did.

51 posted on 10/06/2012 7:54:03 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
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To: BeauBo

As time goes on and the productive leave the vampire state that is bound to change.


52 posted on 10/06/2012 7:55:32 PM PDT by Voice of Reason1 (Absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton 1887)
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To: prairiebreeze

I believe Charlie Scheen was “paralyzed in Amber” for a few years back in the late 90’s...


53 posted on 10/06/2012 8:01:49 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: Carry_Okie
Okay, so according to you I could make up any manner of claims and it would be up to others to prove it wrong.

I could say that I heard that Obama is a felon – now YOU have to prove he isn’t.

You can begin your research here: www.britannica.com and I hear goggle is pretty good.

There, I provided the “irrefutable rationale” and a “irrefutable source” Now, off you go – and don’t come back until you proven the Dear Liar doesn’t belong in jail.

54 posted on 10/06/2012 8:05:39 PM PDT by Voice of Reason1 (Absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton 1887)
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To: Voice of Reason1

I gave you a Google scan of a US Census Bureau document. If that’s not good enough for you, stick it.


55 posted on 10/06/2012 8:46:07 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
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To: AdmSmith; AnonymousConservative; Berosus; bigheadfred; Bockscar; ColdOne; Convert from ECUSA; ...

Thanks presidio9.


56 posted on 10/06/2012 9:22:36 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SaraJohnson

Best.

Post.

Ever.


57 posted on 10/06/2012 9:34:38 PM PDT by Condor 63
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To: Carry_Okie
Taxes vs. receipts by state - 2005

Since 1981

58 posted on 10/06/2012 10:21:12 PM PDT by MARTIAL MONK (I'm waiting for the POP!)
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To: MARTIAL MONK
Thanks. I've dug up similar data before. The last time I looked for that data it was $0.74 on the dollar, but it depends upon the interval. What is most important is to realize that for most States, Federal spending wildly exceeds tax receipts, because FedGov operates at a deficit. To be at or near 1:1 is unusual, and hardly a parasite on the rest of the States. So the case for California being a disproportionate source of revenue and not a sink, is understated in terms of "fairness" among the States.

The biggie is to get people understanding the principal reasons for California's positive balance of Federal payments v. tax receipts, having to do with high costs of living driving away retirees and more people earning high incomes paying higher marginal rates. If they whine for more after that, it's gamesmanship I'm not going to coddle any more.

59 posted on 10/07/2012 12:31:22 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
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To: presidio9

Congrats - decided I had already used up my share some 24 years ago.


60 posted on 10/07/2012 2:11:19 AM PDT by trebb ("If a man will not work, he should not eat" From 2 Thes 3)
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To: presidio9

Yes, but the city of london financial services industry is more than ten times that of Scotland.


61 posted on 10/07/2012 2:13:45 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: presidio9
Yes I have. It was ok, but nothing special. In its purest form it was subsistence food for the masses - cheap grain and offal combined with readily available condiments, all prepared in the simplest (and grossest) fashion i.e. boiled until it was all mashed into one uniform lump. Seriously, they didnt stop until it hung out a white flag!! Haggis is the ancient form of an electric blender.

And if you are poor and just getting by up in the damp, dreary Highlands with the midges and the fleas that's fine. Better to eat than not to. Its the advertisers who have rebadged it as some kind of "luxury" food - to me a blatant attempt to make a virtue out of a neccesity - that I blame. Scots at least can see the distinction. Very few of them eat the stuff by choice now. The new national food of Scotland is assorted curry dishes. Haggis is for tourists and export.

62 posted on 10/07/2012 2:22:38 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: presidio9

I too quit drinking Scotch. My theory is you can only drink so much in a lifetime and I reached my quota before I died.
And golf? “A game that can only be played but never won”?

Another thought.....Whole countries “going Galt”? What a concept. Saints preserve if some of our states get this idea. (nodding in agreement).


63 posted on 10/07/2012 4:54:45 AM PDT by vortec94
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To: trebb

Great minds......hehehe. And nobody mentioned Kilts? Lazuras Long would be disappointed.


64 posted on 10/07/2012 5:01:47 AM PDT by vortec94
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To: Vanders9

Plenty of Scots, me included, eat haggis.

Doen properly, its lovely. Biggest problem is those who dont it properly end up with it being dry.


65 posted on 10/07/2012 7:30:29 AM PDT by the scotsman (i)
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To: Carry_Okie

Hey, have you proven that the Dear Liar isn’t a felon yet?


66 posted on 10/07/2012 9:39:39 AM PDT by Voice of Reason1 (Absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton 1887)
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To: Voice of Reason1
Hey, have you proven that the Dear Liar isn’t a felon yet?

Don't need to. I've allowed you to prove yourself an idiot not worth the time.

67 posted on 10/07/2012 10:29:20 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
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To: presidio9
I'm told the president is a fan.

So I've heard...frankly, I would've considered him more of a hopscotch enthusiast.

68 posted on 10/07/2012 10:43:32 AM PDT by Moltke ("I am Dr. Sonderborg," he said, "and I don't want any nonsense.")
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To: Voice of Reason1

I’ve often though about just that. Is there nothing in the
constitution about kicking out bad states? We tried it the
other way once and it didn’t work out for those who wanted
to leave, maybe we should go the expulsion route.


69 posted on 10/07/2012 11:54:09 AM PDT by jusduat (on the mercy of the Lord alone.)
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To: Lysandru

As with Greece, the rest of the Eurotrash won’t be reasonably solid until they quit lying about how much their debt actually is. It would clearly be in their best interest to make the Euro work but it ain’t really happening until they ‘fess up.


70 posted on 10/07/2012 12:01:22 PM PDT by cherokee1 (skip the names---just kick the buttz)
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To: Voice of Reason1

I gave you another source. I could give you sources until the cows come home but you CHOOSE to remain ignorant so there is nothing further for me to say to you.

And as for accusing me of trying to “put forth a false narrative” you have just called me a liar.

Go screw yourself.


71 posted on 10/07/2012 1:13:45 PM PDT by Nik Naym (It's not my fault... I have compulsive smartass disorder.)
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To: Carry_Okie

Oh Really?

I provided an “irrefutable rationale, with supporting data from an irrefutable source,” and according to your own logic, Now it’s your obligation to prove my point.

So have you done that yet?

Have you proven that our dear liar of a faux-president is in fact not a felon?


72 posted on 10/07/2012 5:37:16 PM PDT by Voice of Reason1 (Absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton 1887)
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To: Nik Naym

Well I’ve already proven you are ill tempered.


73 posted on 10/07/2012 5:42:48 PM PDT by Voice of Reason1 (Absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton 1887)
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To: jusduat

At some point we are going to have to consider that possibility.

Just as some member of the European union may need to be ejected, circumstances here may warrant similar actions.

After all, what incentive is there for some states to be fiscally responsible when they can simply take from other states?


74 posted on 10/07/2012 5:46:48 PM PDT by Voice of Reason1 (Absolute power corrupts absolutely Lord Acton 1887)
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To: Voice of Reason1

For me, it’s not even the money so much as the ideas and
legal precedence that come out of those two places that make
me fear for the future of this country.


75 posted on 10/07/2012 6:21:06 PM PDT by jusduat (on the mercy of the Lord alone.)
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To: SaraJohnson

I would love to see globalism take a nose dive beginning with Europe. Globalists suck. It’s a nasty ideology.

I guess any elitist group dreaming of ruling the whole world and controling the wealth of the world is bad news. Whether it is based in Russia, Germany or a “diversity” of elitists from Saudi Arabia, Europe and America, the same outcome of mass murder, oppression and suffering is guarenteed.

Let every nation have it’s own native culture and struggle for it’s own well being as the people of that Nation see fit. Ditch the “citizen of world” elites’ dreams of controling the globe.


So true

Globalism, Free Trade, and the “Kumbaya Lets All Hold Hands In Unity” nonsense has been a big failure. It has done nothing but redistribute the wealth of the richer nations and gave to poorer ones...and those poorer ones got not better in the process

The thing that is really troubling is that you have people here in the US that want a similar EU-type of thing for North America...even while the EU is crumbling. Only a fool and a idiot would want a North American Union while the European Union is proving that such a body is an abject failure

The best thing that these regions can do is split from their parent nations, and split from the EU. Free Trade Globalism has failed...the Titanic has hit the iceberg....and its time to abandon ship


76 posted on 10/07/2012 8:34:17 PM PDT by SeminoleCounty (Political maturity is realizing that the "R" next to someone's name does not mean "conservative")
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To: Vanders9
Yes, but the city of london financial services industry is more than ten times that of Scotland.

Source please. RBS is the tenth largest bank in the world with $2.5mmmm in assets. London has HSBC and Barclays, but together they are only about twice the size of the Royal Bank of Scotland.

77 posted on 10/07/2012 11:44:56 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: Vanders9

I’m not sure where you got the idea that haggis was some sort of haute cuisine, but you could make the same points you are making against hot dogs.

My point is that the name is sort of off-putting but most people who have a problem with haggis have never tried it.


78 posted on 10/07/2012 11:54:04 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9

I think it would be great if this were to actually happen. In general, I think it would benefit conservatives more than the left, for one thing, although I think that as a matter of principle it’s a good thing too.

Let’s think about the likely results for a moment. Sure, Scotland is a left-wing nation and an independent Scotland will stay in the stifling EU. Fine, but far more importantly, without the Scots England will shift noticeably to the right and it will be easier for the Torries to win again in the future (and hopefully not only in coalition with left-wingers).

Like the Scots, the Catalans are very lefty. So, once more the bulk of Spain would shift to the right without Catalonia, while Catalonia won’t have to keep giving over its hard-earned money to poorer neighbors. A win-win situation, I’d say.

The situation in Flanders is quite different, however. Flanders is the largest area in Belgium and the nationalists there are on the right rather than the left. If Flanders gets its independence, its leaders are almost certain to implement anti-Islamic immigration measures that may save the area from eventual Islamic demographic take-over, as is projected to happen in other European countries. Besides this, Flanders will become a richer nation almost overnight. Considering the Dutch Flemings and the French Walloons have little in common, certainly less than the Scots and English or Catalans and Spanish, I think the Flemish have a great claim to independence and the idea has been popular there for a while now.

Beyond this, I just think that one nation of people shouldn’t be controlled by a different group of people against their will. It’s anti-democratic. And any way, all these areas once were independent after all. Why shouldn’t they have the right to be independent once again if the majority of their people want it that way?


79 posted on 10/08/2012 12:21:54 AM PDT by FenwickBabbitt
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To: presidio9
I do make the same point about hot dogs :)
80 posted on 10/08/2012 12:51:17 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: presidio9

The financial services industry is more than just banks, but in any case London has Natwest, LLoyds/TSB and several others. They also have a controlling interest in RBS, which since the financial crisis is now mostly owned by the British government.


81 posted on 10/08/2012 12:53:26 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: FenwickBabbitt

Yeah! For God and Ulster! and...the South will rise again!!!


82 posted on 10/08/2012 12:56:09 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: presidio9; Viennacon; NonValueAdded; Skulllspitter; GeronL

All,
So check this out:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/scottish-politics/9593135/Nine-in-ten-Scots-living-off-states-patronage.html


83 posted on 10/08/2012 10:27:20 AM PDT by Lysandru
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To: Lysandru
Braveheart freedom scream

Mel: "Freedom... hey, where's everybody going?"

All: "Free stuff! over there ..."

84 posted on 10/08/2012 11:04:09 AM PDT by NonValueAdded ("Why not eliminate the middle man and have whoever feeds Obama his lines debate Romney directly?")
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To: Vanders9

If you don't think a hot dog can be a luxey item haute cuisine a regular necessity, you my friend have never been to Walter's in Mamaroneck NY.

85 posted on 10/08/2012 12:19:46 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: Vanders9
The financial services industry is more than just banks, but in any case London has Natwest, LLoyds/TSB and several others. They also have a controlling interest in RBS, which since the financial crisis is now mostly owned by the British government.

As much as I am enjoying our little conversation here, there comes a point where someone needs to admit that they are in a little bit over their head and arguing for argument's sake. I'm afraid that you have just reached that point. Your original point of contention was that Scotland's financial services industry is insigificant, which is simply not true. Your most recent post here makes it clear that you are unaware of the fact that (1) RBS owns Natwest, and (2) the British Government (of which Scotland is still currently a part) made similiar investments in both RBS and Lloyds TSB as part of the 2008 UK rescue package.

86 posted on 10/08/2012 12:40:01 PM PDT by presidio9 (Islam is as Islam does.)
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To: presidio9
I never said that Scotland's financial services industry was insignificant. I merely said that it was much smaller than the City of London, even accounting for the difference in population size My contention is that an independent Scotland would not be able to rely on its financial services industry to sustain its needs, particularly as an independent Scotland would be in competition with the City.

I know that the British Government intervened in several banks during the financial crisis. That is not the point I am trying to make. If a large proportion of RBS, Scotland's largest bank, is owned by the British Government, that means that a large amount of RBS is owned by the BRITISH people. And England and Wales make up 90% of Britain's population. That makes it OUR bank, not Scotlands.

87 posted on 10/09/2012 12:24:01 AM PDT by Vanders9
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