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Mother of Man Killed by Police: ‘I Want No Cover-Up; I Want Answers’
New York Times ^ | October 6, 2012 | COLIN MOYNIHAN and WENDY RUDERMAN

Posted on 10/06/2012 5:58:50 PM PDT by Lancey Howard

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To: NVDave

“And in shootings, they NYPD is known for their excessive round count”

And yet only one round was fired here??? Which tells me no other cops had the slightest thought that there was a threat.


51 posted on 10/06/2012 8:21:18 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Lancey Howard

I had the great fortune of driving without a current registration sticker right in front of the White House. It was dark, and I got pulled over. No MPD for me, it was US Secret Service, baby.

The officer approached (I still didn’t know he was a fed) and I placed my hands at 10 and 2. He asked for my license and registration, and I said “I will need to reach for my wallet, and my registration is in the glove compartment”. He replied “do you have any weapons in the car?”, and I said, “no sir”.

He observed my retrieval of the necessary documents, took them back to his vehicle, and returned about 10 minutes later.

He politely, but forcefully, explained that I was subject to significant fines because I was not displaying proper authentication of my registration. I looked him in the eye and said I understood. He let me go and told me to put the goddamn sticker on my plate as soon as I got home.

And he thanked me for keeping my hands visible as he approached and explaining my actions throughout.

It is a shame that it has come to that, but it’s just smart to do it. The greater shame is that I can get pulled over because I don’t have enough duplicative evidence on my vehicle that I’ve complied with every nuisance regulation.


52 posted on 10/06/2012 8:28:02 PM PDT by Mr. Bird
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To: Mr. Bird

Correction: I believe he asked if I had any firearms (not weapons) in the car.


53 posted on 10/06/2012 8:29:15 PM PDT by Mr. Bird
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To: Mr. Bird

I’m about as apple-pie as you can get. And I’ve been pulled over by some angry cops. One was loaded with tattoos and he was especially angry.

He was using radar on the expressway. Sitting on his motorcycle in the median of an expressway where everyone does 85+mph. What a MORON! He almost caused an accident with people mashing their brakes etc...


54 posted on 10/06/2012 8:53:10 PM PDT by bicyclerepair ( REPLACE D-W-S ! http://www.karenforcongress.com)
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To: bicyclerepair

I used to know a lot of cops. Knew them personally. I knew their wives and girlfriends (we were too young for kids, although some were cooking). They were working in the Western District in Baltimore. They never interacted with “normal”, law abiding citizens. It’s not their fault. Every interaction they had was a potential death sentence. I cut them some slack then, and I do it to all cops to this day.


55 posted on 10/06/2012 8:58:54 PM PDT by Mr. Bird
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To: driftdiver
"And yet only one round was fired here??? "

Seems odd that only one round was fired. I was taught to double tap to the center of mass. Isn't the NYPD taught that? The Marines?

56 posted on 10/06/2012 9:05:09 PM PDT by Sooth2222 ("Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of congress. But I repeat myself." M.Twain)
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To: Mr. Bird

I do exactly the same thing... hands on the wheel at 10 and 2, fingers and thumbs fully visible. Except, I retrieve my license, registration, and insurance card the second I come to a stop and before the cop approaches my car. I put them on the dashboard in front of me in plain sight so I can pick them up and hand them over. This procedure is pretty effortless, and in this day and age when cops are getting blown away as they approach a thug’s car window, that’s just the way reasonable people handle things.

I swear, half the cop-hating morons who show up on these threads are more likely to sneer at the cop and smart-ass him about their rights than they are to just shut up and cooperate for a few minutes. I am positive I’ve been let off with warnings because I simply cooperated and conducted myself politely.

Sure, there are some bad cops, just like there some bad Boy Scouts, bad Marines, bad priests, bad teachers, and bad everything else. I can’t figure out why some people have to lump all cops into the vile pig category. Like one poster said earlier, you never see an FR thread about a cop getting shot.

FRegards,
LH


57 posted on 10/06/2012 9:17:33 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: ozzymandus
I hope the cops don’t shoot anybody in your family.

I do have this one relative, it's a miracle he hasn't been shot yet.

58 posted on 10/06/2012 9:19:05 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Jeff Chandler

Considering what has been reported about the victim and the cop, Mr Carsick’s story doesn’t seem logical. OTH shooting a civilian for not obeying orders seems exactly the thing Hassan would do.


59 posted on 10/06/2012 9:20:00 PM PDT by Oztrich Boy (Monarchy is the one system of government where power is exercised for the good of all - Aristotle)
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To: Lancey Howard
Why aren't we hearing directly from the off-duty cop in the back seat who was waving her ID out the window before the shooting???

Did the cat get her tongue???

Why is it now being reported that she slept through this whole thing -- this big police chase with lights flashing and all???

Let's hear directly from her mouth that she was sleeping.

Make her take a lie detector test.

The fact that we don't hear from her tells me that what she witnessed would not corroborate the police officer's story.

60 posted on 10/06/2012 9:26:45 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Cicero
An earlier news story said that he didn’t put his hands up because he had them on the steering wheel, after coming to a stop.

According to this story the officer never told him to put his hands up. He just said: "police".

When your hands are on the steering wheel in a vehicle as the police approach, for all their intents and purposes your hands are up.

61 posted on 10/06/2012 9:31:52 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Lancey Howard
“If this guy had kept his hands up or on the wheel, we wouldn’t be here”

Well, there it is folks. End of discussion, no more comments necessary. The lawyer for the cop has spoken. (The guy was probably reaching for that electric drill.)

62 posted on 10/06/2012 9:33:48 PM PDT by count-your-change (You don't have to be brilliant, not being stupid is enough.)
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To: Mr. Bird

The even smarter move to start is to roll down your window, place your left hand on your outside mirror, and your right hand on your left wrist (on your watch, if you’re wearing one). Then proceed as you did, getting every move approved.

If you have a passenger, their hands are on the dash for a front seat passenger, on the top of the seat back in front of them for a back seat passenger.


63 posted on 10/06/2012 9:34:33 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: South Dakota
Which part of “ no sudden moves and keep your hands in plan sight” didn’t he understand?

The officer never said that and the driver had his hands on the steering wheel when he was shot.

64 posted on 10/06/2012 9:34:46 PM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Mr. Bird; bicyclerepair

Even more understandable if you’ve ever played around with the interactive Baltimore murder map.

http://essentials.baltimoresun.com/micro_sun/homicides/


65 posted on 10/06/2012 9:37:00 PM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: Uncle Chip
Let's hear directly from her mouth that she was sleeping.

I agree, it will be interesting to hear what the suspended, shoplifting cop has to say. Unfortunately, we may not hear from her until she is in court and under oath, if we hear anything at all. One thing is for sure, no way was she asleep while this driver Polanco was cutting off cop vans and trying to speed away, unless she was passed out drunk.

66 posted on 10/06/2012 9:54:32 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: driftdiver

Exactly. I don’t think he perceived a “threat.”

I think he screwed up and jumped the trigger while on-target. His fellow cop, in the back seat of his car, has now changed the story a couple of times.

I think this was a case where, once again, we learn that cops shouldn’t have guns... because they cannot be bothered to actually learn how to use them.


67 posted on 10/06/2012 11:33:48 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: Lancey Howard

Want to know why I lump all cops together?

Because the good cops won’t finger the bad ones. They know who is bad, they know who is corrupt.

But the whole “thin blue line” BS keeps them from cleaning out the corruption from within their ranks.

And it not only keeps the bad cops on the force, it also costs the taxpayers huge monetary awards in court or out of court, when the PD realizes that they have a problem. They dip into the bottomless well of taxpayer money to cover the situation over with a payout.

Cops seem to think that they have such a terribly dangerous job. They don’t. It isn’t even in the 10 most deadly job descriptions measured by deaths per 100K population. Sanitation workers die at a higher rate than cops do. You don’t see garbage collectors holding bagpipe parades when they get killed, do you? Nor farmers or ranchers.

Quite frankly, when I look at many state and town budgets, I blow my top at the amount of money being thrown at cops and firefighters. It’s far, far more than they deserve, and it’s beyond what the city/town/county/states can afford. Some states are worse than others in this regard, but big city cops are among the most over-compensated when one looks at their benefits package of all public employees.

If cops don’t like being hated by the public, they can either improve their attitude and performance, or they can get a different job.


68 posted on 10/06/2012 11:55:03 PM PDT by NVDave
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To: Lancey Howard
I'll wager that teachers get a worse rap on FR than cops, yet you don't see the teachers here whining about teacher-haters, or saying 'Wait until ALL the facts are in before judging'.

It's unseemly on the part of unionized public employees to carry on as such, IMO.

69 posted on 10/07/2012 12:37:21 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: Lancey Howard
One thing is for sure, no way was she asleep while this driver Polanco was cutting off cop vans and trying to speed away, unless she was passed out drunk.

What you're saying is that you believe the cops have already lied, correct?

70 posted on 10/07/2012 12:48:51 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: Ken H
I'll wager that teachers get a worse rap on FR than cops

That may be so, but most of them are deemed here as "not guilty".

71 posted on 10/07/2012 12:50:05 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Ken H
What you're saying is that you believe the cops have already lied, correct?

Yes, I think the suspended, shoplifting cop who claims she was asleep is lying. That's correct.

72 posted on 10/07/2012 12:51:39 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Ken H

I think she was passed out drunk. Maybe that counts as “asleep”, I dunno..


73 posted on 10/07/2012 12:53:58 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: NVDave

That’s a good post, and I mostly agree with you. It is, to a large degree, a “gang mentality” that keeps good cops from fingering bad cops. Cops feel alone - - their world is us and them - - and so they believe the only people they can ever truly trust to have their backs are their fellow cops, and that includes the bad ones. I do suspect, however, that internal affairs gets “anonymous tips” from good cops from time to time. At least, I hope so.

I also suspect that most of the “bad shoots” are the result of poor training and low entry standards.


74 posted on 10/07/2012 1:03:58 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard
(replying to #72 and #73)

#72: Yes, I think the suspended, shoplifting cop who claims she was asleep is lying. That's correct.

#73: I think she was passed out drunk. Maybe that counts as “asleep”, I dunno..

Which of the following do you believe to be the truth?

1. That she was passed out drunk.

2. That she was asleep.

3. That she flashed her badge, as the initial story said.

75 posted on 10/07/2012 1:20:11 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: Lancey Howard

Make #3 ‘police ID’ instead of ‘badge’.


76 posted on 10/07/2012 1:29:07 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: Ken H
According to "the original story":

Police sources identified the officer in Polanco’s car as 29-year-old Vanessa Rodriguez. She was waving her police ID out the window just before the shooting, sources said.

I think the woman was passed out, then woke up after the car was pulled over and waved her ID out the window. I also suspect that the cops who approached the car that had just cut them off twice and then attempted to flee and was finally forced to pull over at 5 in the morning didn't really care to get close enough to examine the ID to see what it was and determine if it was genuine. That part of the story is barely relevant and anyway, it sounds like the shooting happened pretty quick.

I maintain that the kid was probably reaching down beneath his seat to stash his drugs. The cop saw this and maybe saw an object in the dark- - the power drill - - and shot.

Ironically, the kid allegedly wanted to be a cop, and so that makes him just as disgraceful and stupid a pig as all other cops, don't you think? So in the end, it's a wash. You should be happy - - a future thug cop is dead.

77 posted on 10/07/2012 1:51:06 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: ozzymandus

Why would you say that??


78 posted on 10/07/2012 1:51:06 AM PDT by UltraV ("Well you've got to hand it to Mitt Romney, because President Obama sure did." @sethmeyers21)
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To: Lancey Howard
...most of them are deemed here as "not guilty".


79 posted on 10/07/2012 1:51:22 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: Lancey Howard
I think the woman was passed out, then woke up after the car was pulled over and waved her ID out the window.

So you're saying you believe that the police - and I don't mean the female officer - have already lied. Correct?

80 posted on 10/07/2012 2:23:39 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: Lancey Howard
I maintain that the kid was probably reaching down beneath his seat to stash his drugs.

There were no drugs reported to have been found in the car.

81 posted on 10/07/2012 4:34:28 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Uncle Chip

Not from what I read.


82 posted on 10/07/2012 4:37:02 AM PDT by South Dakota (shut up and drill)
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To: South Dakota
Depends upon who one believes -- the cop who shot him or the passenger who witnessed it.

Give them both lie detector tests along with sleeping beauty in the back seat.

83 posted on 10/07/2012 4:46:31 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: South Dakota

And about sleeping beauty:

“Police sources identified the officer in Polanco’s car as 29-year-old Vanessa Rodriguez. She was waving her police ID out the window just before the shooting, sources said.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/man-shot-police-laguardia-airport-article-1.1174664

How was she sleeping and waving her ID out the window at the same time and just before the shooting???

The cover-up started right there.


84 posted on 10/07/2012 6:03:32 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Lancey Howard

Polanco “did not comply when ordered TO PUT HIS HANDS UP”. Hmmm PUT UP HANDS, WHILE SITTING BEHIND THE WHEEL OF THE CAR?

How about “keep your hands on the wheel”


85 posted on 10/07/2012 6:14:34 AM PDT by capt B
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To: Ken H
So you're saying you believe that the police - and I don't mean the female officer - have already lied. Correct?

Not correct.
I am reluctant to believe reports from Democrat newspapers. I hear one thing from "the police" and something else from "police sources". And as I posted, it's possible nobody is lying. It's alo possible everybody is lying. But no, I'm not ready to call anybody a liar yet.

86 posted on 10/07/2012 8:50:00 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard
And as I posted, it's possible nobody is lying.

How is it possible that no one is lying? You said in post #77: "I think the woman was passed out, then woke up after the car was pulled over and waved her ID out the window.".

NYPD says otherwise. Someone is lying. You can't have it both ways.

87 posted on 10/07/2012 9:54:36 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: Ken H
NYPD says otherwise.

Please point me to your source for the NYPD denying that the suspended shoplifter cop waved her ID out the window after she woke up. Thanks.

88 posted on 10/07/2012 10:24:02 AM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard
From the NYT article...

A second passenger, an off-duty police officer named Vanessa Rodriguez, was asleep in the back seat, police said.

She can't both be asleep and waving her ID out the window at the police. Someone is lying.

89 posted on 10/07/2012 10:48:15 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: Ken H

Give the police a few weeks and they’ll figure out the truth. Of course that truth we certainly find the shooting was legit.

Don’t you love living in a police state.


90 posted on 10/07/2012 11:03:09 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Lancey Howard
It's right here:

"Police sources identified the officer in Polanco’s car as 29-year-old Vanessa Rodriguez. She was waving her police ID out the window just before the shooting, sources said."

The article says "just before the shooting".

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/man-shot-police-laguardia-airport-article-1.1174664

And then the story changes to her being asleep until after the shooting.

So then the police source is either lying or lying.

91 posted on 10/07/2012 11:06:31 AM PDT by Uncle Chip
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To: Lancey Howard

I’m astounded that you are going to great lengths to defend the cop who killed a young man, but condemning the cop who has made statements indicating it was a bad shooting.

Just another example of how cops cover up the crimes of their own.


92 posted on 10/07/2012 11:44:25 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
I’m astounded that you are going to great lengths to defend the cop

Actually, I'm not.

If it was a criminally bad shoot then the cop needs to suffer serious consequences. I just differ from the usual small horde of cop-hating freepers here for the same reason I always differ with them - - because I am willing to wait for a full investigation rather than fall hook, line, and sinker for the initial accounts published in some liberal Democrat newspaper. The fact is, "witnesses" can blab until the cows come home, while the cops have to keep their mouths shut until the investigation is complete. Some people give these "witnesses" the "God's honest truth" award whereas I tend to - - within reason - - give the cop the benefit of the doubt until all the facts and testimonies are known. Let the investigation proceed and let's see where it goes.

Again, though, it was the reckless behavior of the driver that put him in a position for a tragedy to occur.

By the way: ...but condemning the cop who has made statements indicating it was a bad shooting.

Seriously? You typed that? I have heard nothing from her. NO statements. One report has the police saying she was asleep while another report quotes "police sources" as saying she waved a police ID out the window. None of the reports are clear, and none directly quote her, which is not surprising in the immediate aftermath of a deadly shooting. I also maintain that whether or not she did indeed wave an ID out the back window is not relevant in the potentially dangerous situation the cops found themselves in at 5 dark-o'clock in the morning. Fact is, she may have been asleep and then woke up and waved her ID, maybe even AFTER the shooting. So, BOTH things could be true. But see, that's where the full and thorough investigation comes in.

FRegards,
LH

93 posted on 10/07/2012 12:26:03 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard

Yes willing to wait for a court to convict the cop but not so much for the guy who was killed. He’s already been declared guilty and deserving of the punishment he received via cop.

right?


94 posted on 10/07/2012 12:29:29 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Uncle Chip

But according to Dorothy Garcia, 74, one of the plaintiffs in the lawsuit, Hamdy was one of several officers who broke down her front door in pursuit of her grandson, who they mistakenly believed was involved in a violent crime.

Garcia identified Hamdy after being shown his photograph by reporters on Friday.

“They stormed up. They were screaming,” Garcia said. She answered the door and the officers demanded to see her grandson, Tyrell Garcia, who was then 23.

When Ms. Garcia refused to let them in her house without a warrant, Hassan and the other officers began forcing their way into the house, she said. The officers broke down the door and chased after Tyrell, who hid in a neighbor’s garage.

According to the lawsuit, the teen surrendered and walked out of the garage peacefully, but was thrown to the ground and beaten by officers. A police dog was allowed to bite him repeatedly, the complaint said.

Several minor criminal charges were filed against Garcia for fleeing the police, but were later dropped, said Lichtmacher, the attorney. Garcia was cleared of any involvement in the crime that prompted the initial search.

“They were extremely aggressive with very little information,” Lichtmacher said. “They had no warrant. It was a very strange incident.”


95 posted on 10/07/2012 1:04:38 PM PDT by GreaterSwiss
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To: driftdiver
He’s already been declared guilty and deserving of the punishment he received via cop.

Try again.
Start by checking out 3/4 of the posts on this thread to see who's already been convicted.

96 posted on 10/07/2012 1:16:51 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard

By you and the other posters who excuse any behavior from law enforcement.


97 posted on 10/07/2012 3:29:14 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: vbmoneyspender

That is some sound sleeper, what with the sirens going off all around them during the traffic stop.

You would have to be passed out not awaken to police sirens today with their deafening volume.

She was most definitely NOT asleep.


98 posted on 10/09/2012 8:19:54 PM PDT by Freedom_Is_Not_Free (REPEAL OBAMACARE. Nothing else matters.)
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To: Freedom_Is_Not_Free
That is some sound sleeper, what with the sirens going off all around them during the traffic stop

According to the story:

...officers activated lights and sirens and yelled at Mr. Polanco to pull over, but he sped up and continued driving, which escalated the officers’ level of alertness. “He was a danger to other motorists on the road,” Mr. Karasyk said. “A reasonable person doesn’t refuse to pull over in response to a police vehicle flashing lights and sirens. They actually had to box him in and pull him over.”

I agree. I cannot believe that woman was still passed out drunk in the back seat with all that racket going on when they finally forced the guy to pull over.

99 posted on 10/09/2012 8:29:31 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard
I agree. I cannot believe that woman was still passed out drunk in the back seat with all that racket going on when they finally forced the guy to pull over.

So you are saying that she must have been awake, right?

Also, it says they had the guy boxed in. What was the urgency of approaching the vehicle with weapon drawn? Why not have the passengers exit the car and lie down on the pavement?

100 posted on 10/10/2012 2:11:07 AM PDT by Ken H
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