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Michigan unions fight to enshrine bargaining rights in constitution
The Washington TImes ^ | 10/8/2012 | Andrea Billups

Posted on 10/08/2012 7:10:12 PM PDT by markomalley

They have been playing defense elsewhere across the Midwest, but labor unions in Michigan have gone on the attack with a proposed first-in-the-nation amendment to the state constitution that would enshrine a right to collective bargaining for public — and private-sector workers — and invalidate any past or future laws to the contrary.

Proposal 2, backed by Michigan’s teachers and other public-employee unions, is being closely watched by labor and management groups across the country after a string of setbacks for the union movement in states such as Wisconsin and Indiana. Other states are likely to follow Michigan’s lead if voters approve the measure Nov. 6, analysts here say.

But Gov. Rick Snyder, who has a business background, generally has shunned the more confrontational approach toward labor adopted by fellow Republican governors such as Wisconsin’s Scott Walker. Much of the state’s business establishment also strongly opposes the measure, saying it will hurt competitiveness and take a big bite out of the state’s ability to control spending.

“It turns government unions into a superlegislature,” said F. Vincent Vernuccio, labor policy director of the pro-market Mackinac Center for Public Policy in Midland, Mich., which calls the measure costly and overreaching. “If passed, it will give government unions an effective veto over legislation passed by elected representatives.”

(Excerpt) Read more at times247.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; Government; Politics/Elections; US: Michigan
KEYWORDS: michigan; unions
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The ballot measure says:

A PROPOSAL TO AMEND THE STATE CONSTITUTION REGARDING COLLECTIVE BARGAINING

This proposal would:

  • Grant public and private employees the constitutional right to organize and bargain collectively through labor unions.
  • Invalidate existing or future state or local laws that limit the ability to join unions and bargain collectively, and to negotiate and enforce collective bargaining agreements, including employees’ financial support of their labor unions. Laws may be enacted to prohibit public employees from striking.
  • Override state laws that regulate hours and conditions of employment to the extent that those laws conflict with collective bargaining agreements.
  • Define “employer” as a person or entity employing one or more employees.

Read bullet #3 very carefully. The union contract would be the highest law of the land in Michigan.

If this passes, I can't imagine any business, even Government Motors, staying in Michigan (what businesses are still there, that is)

1 posted on 10/08/2012 7:10:19 PM PDT by markomalley
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To: markomalley

Pure insanity. It’ll probably pass... ;-(


2 posted on 10/08/2012 7:14:03 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: Springman; cyclotic; netmilsmom; RatsDawg; PGalt; FreedomHammer; queenkathy; madison10; ...
Our union government proposal.

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3 posted on 10/08/2012 7:14:57 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: markomalley
One or more employees can Unionize?

In MI, I guess there's enough Union members, Teachers, etc., that they think they can steal Legislative Authority from The People.

If it passes, MI is toast. They have sure benefited from all the UAW golden benefits, wages, etc., to the tune of all their Auto Industry leaving the state, and their Pension Fund being bailed out with Taxpayer money from the Nation.

4 posted on 10/08/2012 7:14:57 PM PDT by traditional1 (Don't gotsta worry 'bout no mo'gage, don't gotsta worry 'bout no gas; Obama gonna take care o' me!)
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To: markomalley

Collective bargaining against the taxpayers’ dollars should be outlawed. Private sector bargaining is okay providing there is no special involvement from the state other than to prevent criminal activity.


5 posted on 10/08/2012 7:15:48 PM PDT by Gene Eric (Demoralization is a weapon of the enemy. Don't get it, don't spread it!)
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To: markomalley

Question: In Michigan, is a simple majority on a ballot enough to cause an amendment, or is a super-majority needed either by public or State Legislature vote?


6 posted on 10/08/2012 7:18:29 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: rockrr

I hope it does pass... turn the whole state into Detroit... and give the Dems a place to call home.

The land of mosquitoes and snow.

sorry to Freepers who may reside there.... I heard Wisconsin is nice.


7 posted on 10/08/2012 7:20:33 PM PDT by mike_9958
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To: markomalley

Hmmm, that will help the employment situation in MI. The first communist state. No one will buy MI bonds so how are they going to finance their utopia?


8 posted on 10/08/2012 7:23:11 PM PDT by stubernx98 (cranky, but reasonable)
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To: mike_9958

It sounds like the idiotic sort of thing that they would try in my state (Washington).


9 posted on 10/08/2012 7:32:23 PM PDT by rockrr (Everything is different now...)
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To: markomalley

If we take away bargaining rights we might just as well have the Chinese come in and govern us. what’s next,.they take away the right to assemble.

If you are upset At the deal the public employee unions got, blame the elected reps that gave it to them.the union reps did their job as they were supposed to do.


10 posted on 10/08/2012 7:34:49 PM PDT by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: traditional1
I think its unlikely to pass. The petitions to get it on the ballot were questionable to begin with and getting it on te ballot is a far cry from actually passing it. After all, look at how many names they collected to recall Scott Walker. Even if it did pass, it will be tied up in court for years.

Plus, there are union members opposed too.

Union member organization blasts decision by union officials to change Michigan's Constitution Founder warns of devastating economic consequences if it passes (scoll down)
11 posted on 10/08/2012 7:40:07 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: markomalley

How can you pass a law that would invalidate any future laws that may come to pass that goes against this said passed law?


12 posted on 10/08/2012 7:40:21 PM PDT by rawhide
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To: markomalley

The real question should be is whether or not Michigan should adopt a permanent third world economy.


13 posted on 10/08/2012 7:41:11 PM PDT by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est; zero sera dans l'enfer bientot)
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To: gunsequalfreedom
f we take away bargaining rights we might just as well have the Chinese come in and govern us.

Absent a sarcasm tag; you have just written the Dumbest Post in FreeRepublic today - congrats! - NO sarcasm!

14 posted on 10/08/2012 7:44:02 PM PDT by bill1952 (Choice is an illusion created between those with power - and those without)
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To: gunsequalfreedom

Nobody is taking away their bargaining rights. That’s the title the union chose to fool the simple minded.


15 posted on 10/08/2012 7:45:43 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: traditional1

Michigan would just be the start. If it passed in MI, the unions would than cherry pick the states, until every state was under the union thumb.

Then they’d work to overcome the US Constitution.


16 posted on 10/08/2012 7:52:10 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: gunsequalfreedom
If you are upset At the deal the public employee unions got, blame the elected reps that gave it to them.the union reps did their job as they were supposed to do.

When it comes to political favors, it takes two to tango. There is, for example, no bribery without a briber and a bribee.

Consequently, blame for the abuse of the public trust represented by politicians colluding with public employee unions is equally distributed. Union reps aren't just "doing their job" when they engage in schemes to screw the taxpayers.

17 posted on 10/08/2012 7:55:35 PM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA; Ignorance on parade.)
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To: markomalley

DUMB IDEA.

But the solution is not to export jobs.

Bring back US jobs now.


18 posted on 10/08/2012 7:55:53 PM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (America doesn't need any new laws. America needs freedom!)
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To: okie01
Consequently, blame for the abuse of the public trust represented by politicians colluding with public employee unions is equally distributed. Union reps aren't just "doing their job" when they engage in schemes to screw the taxpayers.

That's exactly what proposal 1 is about. They want to overturn the emergency manager law because an emergency manager can negate union contracts in cities that are falling deeply into debt. In most cases, those cities are in debt because the unions own the city council members.
19 posted on 10/08/2012 8:03:31 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: rawhide
How can you pass a law that would invalidate any future laws that may come to pass that goes against this said passed law?

The Communists can do anything they want, that's the law.

20 posted on 10/08/2012 8:10:29 PM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: rawhide

Te same way you can write a Second Amendment to the the US Constitution that forbids firearms regulations like NFA34 or GCA68.

Maintaining the political will to hold the amendment sacrosanct against future encroachments— that the challenge.


21 posted on 10/08/2012 8:15:30 PM PDT by ExGeeEye (Wait a minute! Romney doesn't suck? I'm trying to keep up.)
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To: bill1952
Here's an indication of the manipulation they're using to push this proposal. They even changed the name of it to make their false victimization seem even worse.

Prop 2 Supporters Change Name
22 posted on 10/08/2012 8:18:20 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: markomalley

since the VAST majority of people don’t belong to unions, how could this trash possibly pass???


23 posted on 10/08/2012 8:30:01 PM PDT by terycarl
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To: terycarl

It will never pass - After the SEIU goons held a “vote” to “unionize” home caregivers and started to grab dues from these people trying to take care of their families with State aid they fought back and won.

the MI union goons are still all wee-weed up over losing the battle.


24 posted on 10/08/2012 8:49:31 PM PDT by Gasshog
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To: markomalley
and invalidate any past or future laws to the contrary.

Constitutional amendments can be REPEALED as well.

25 posted on 10/08/2012 9:15:08 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (Obama likes to claim credit for getting Osama. Why hasn't he tried Khalid Sheikh Mohammed yet?)
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To: markomalley

this in insanity. i hope michigan voters knock it down hard.


26 posted on 10/08/2012 9:18:44 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (I can neither confirm or deny that; even if I could, I couldn't - it's classified.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Didn’t the Chief of Police just issue a “no go” for the no man’s land formally known as Detroit?
These union communists have turned the highest paid per capita city into Benghazi on Lake Michigan in six short decades!
There will be a reckoning with these communist, it’s coming.


27 posted on 10/08/2012 9:27:42 PM PDT by TsonicTsunami08
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To: markomalley

Does Michigan own the Unions -OR- do the Unions own Michigan?..

Pretty simple really.. The Unions have come way out of the closet..

The Workers Paradise LOOMS.. looms like a diseased Rat..
ALL of America should take notice even right to work States..

The Unions want to OWN your Freedom.. the sedition of it all is obscene...


28 posted on 10/08/2012 9:29:32 PM PDT by hosepipe (This propaganda has been edited to include some fully orbed hyperbole..)
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To: okie01

They legally contributed to campaigns. It was the elected official that gave away the store in exchange. Is that the kind of rep you voted for? Not me. The system is corrupted I agree but I place blame with those that were supposed to be on the taxpayers side of the bargaining table.


29 posted on 10/08/2012 9:50:26 PM PDT by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: bill1952

You have offered nothing to the discussion other than an unthinking insult.


30 posted on 10/08/2012 9:53:14 PM PDT by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: Jonty30

Are you saying Americans should not be allowed to gather and organize?


31 posted on 10/08/2012 9:56:07 PM PDT by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: Navy Patriot

Are unions legal in China?

Side note, they could sure use one at that iPhone factory


32 posted on 10/08/2012 9:58:38 PM PDT by gunsequalfreedom (Conservative is not a label of convenience. It is a guide to your actions.)
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To: gunsequalfreedom

Truth hurts, doesn’t it. Maybe next time you should think before spouting communist talking points.


33 posted on 10/08/2012 10:01:44 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: gunsequalfreedom

There is nothing wrong with gathering. This is already protected under the Constitution. You just can’t use government force to force the population to respect and obey your dictates, is all.


34 posted on 10/08/2012 10:02:09 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: markomalley

LMBO!!!
The scumbag Democrats want to turn Michigan into one great big Detroit!
Hahahaaa...!


35 posted on 10/08/2012 10:05:36 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: gunsequalfreedom

“Gather and organize” is way far and away from what the state enforced bargaining monopolies called “unions” are today. Is there a single one that can survive without laws requiring manadatory membership and dues? Can the unions survive except that they are allowed to use their compulsory union dues for political purposes?

You sound like a socialist despite your name and tagline.


36 posted on 10/08/2012 10:06:51 PM PDT by FreedomNotSafety
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To: FreedomNotSafety

I think gunsequalfreedom is Bob J. It seems to fit his modus operandi.


37 posted on 10/08/2012 10:10:41 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults.)
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To: markomalley
A PROPOSAL TO AMEND THE STATE CONSTITUTION REGARDING COLLECTIVE BARGAINING CAUSE THE STATE OF MICHIGAN TO SELF-DESTRUCT

That's a more accurate description.

38 posted on 10/08/2012 10:33:04 PM PDT by Repeal 16-17 (Let me know when the Shooting starts.)
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To: Gene Eric
Private sector bargaining is okay providing there is no special involvement from the state other than to prevent criminal activity.

There is one thing that needs fixing that would absolutely cure this mess: End the National Labor Relations Act exemption unions enjoy from anti-trust law. I have no problem with private employee-owned companies competing to supply skilled labor as a right of free association. It's union monopoly power that has destroyed product quality and kept labor from making the most of their best people.

39 posted on 10/08/2012 10:57:37 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
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To: gunsequalfreedom
If you are upset At the deal the public employee unions got, blame the elected reps that gave it to them.the union reps did their job as they were supposed to do.

The problem with this idea is that the term of the contracts (particularly as regards retirements) exceed the term of the elected representatives. Hence, to take this position is to make changing representatives absolutely futile insofar as undoing a bad or even crooked deal is concerned.

40 posted on 10/08/2012 11:02:03 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
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To: SatinDoll
Truth hurts, doesn’t it. Maybe next time you should think before spouting communist talking points.

Collective bargaining is a matter of free association, once considered an unalienable right in this country. The real problem is not the existence of unions, it is union monopoly. If unions had to compete for business, they would behave far differently.

41 posted on 10/08/2012 11:08:20 PM PDT by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
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To: Carry_Okie

My greatgrandfather was a union organizer for the International Workers of the World - the Wobblies. You don’t have to instruct me about unions and why they exist.

What I’m talking about is the proposition’s bullet #3: Override state laws that regulate hours and conditions of employment to the extent that those laws conflict with collective bargaining agreements.

This is blatantly anti-American, as it strips the voting public of law-making ability and elevates union power above those of the citizenry.


42 posted on 10/08/2012 11:38:52 PM PDT by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: SatinDoll
Thank you for the clarification of your post.

This is blatantly anti-American, as it strips the voting public of law-making ability and elevates union power above those of the citizenry.

Of course it is. I prefer to look toward real solutions to get people talking about them. It's long past time to revisit the NRLA.

43 posted on 10/09/2012 12:04:02 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (GunWalker: Arming "a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as well funded")
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To: gunsequalfreedom

Public employees should not be allowed to collectively negotiate wages and benefits.


44 posted on 10/09/2012 2:15:33 AM PDT by Jacquerie (Exterminate rats.)
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To: Carry_Okie

“It’s long past time to revisit the NRLA.”

Agreed!


45 posted on 10/09/2012 2:26:43 AM PDT by SatinDoll (NATURAL BORN CITZEN: BORN IN THE USA OF CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: gunsequalfreedom
Are unions legal in China?

Yes, but the law works differently in Communist China.

In Communist China, unions are legal, and often membership is required, but the "union" is not operated for the benefit of the union members, nor for the benefit of (and here's the real difference) the local, national and international Union Bosses. The union is operated for the benefit of the few highly placed members of the Communist Party inner circle.

These "Communists" are very rich elites that collect shakedown "partnership" profits from the people who actually built and run the factories (often foreigners).

The unions are operated to ensure smooth, high productivity operations at minimum cost for labor and benefits.

Unions in Communist China protect the state (which is one of the partners in the business that employs the workers), from the workers, and they do a very good job of it, as the workers in China generally perform highly productive, skilled work for very low wages, and very long hours.

Unions in the United States, and Communist China are highly similar in that they are both based on the same Marxist philosophy and Communist principles of organization and operation.

The important difference is that in China the elite don't allow the fat cat local and regional thug union bosses any riches or power, nor do they fund any international union activities anymore (why pay when ya don't have to and the useful idiots will keep on workin' for ya for free?).

In short, everybody in the union (including the bosses) gets screwed (and executed when necessary), for the benefit of the Communist insider elite who are oligarchs in reality, the 1% ultra rich (pretty much like the DemoRat elite in the US).

The important difference is the Commies have learned not to take too much from the factory owners (that would put them out of business and kill the golden goose), while the US DemoRat union thug bosses have not learned that lesson yet.

As far as your worry over collective bargaining rights, there are only two things you need to remember:

Required union membership=Communist tyranny

Required Right To Work, free from union intimidation=Free Market Liberty

Choose one.

My post was a sarcastic reference to US Communists (reference my tagline), not Chinese ones, however, Chinese Communists do operate within the law.

46 posted on 10/09/2012 2:28:11 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: SatinDoll
This is blatantly anti-American, as it strips the voting public of law-making ability and elevates union power above those of the citizenry.

Exactly. Tyranny.

47 posted on 10/09/2012 2:44:26 AM PDT by Navy Patriot (Join the Democrats, it's not Fascism when WE do it, and the Constitution and law mean what WE say.)
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To: rockrr

Good, let it pass. That’s federalism - the ability of each individual state to succeed or fail, thus providing a laboratory of proof of concept.

Imagine if all the liberal states had to stand on their own without the fedgov passing the same inane laws across the nation. They’d have to remain competitive. Federal overreach has covered their errors.

Here in IL our Gov. Pat Quinn’s solution to more than a half century of overspending is a federal bailout of our state. How’s that for thinking outside the box?


48 posted on 10/09/2012 3:20:35 AM PDT by 1010RD (First, Do No Harm)
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To: Jacquerie
Public employees should not be allowed to collectively negotiate wages and benefits.

I agree and the police attempt to blackmail the city of Detroit is a perfect example of why. The Detroit Tigers are actually bringing money into the city and the police are in front of the park trying to scare people away.

And then there are other threats.

Cop Union Boss Boasts of Beating Lawmakers With Flashlights: If Soldiers Don’t Have Unions, Why Do Police and Teachers?

"We intend to walk into Lansing after the summer break and ask the Republicans who have been so eagerly screwing us, 'who's next?' If we cannot earn their respect we will do what we have always done; hit it with a flashlight until we gain compliance."
49 posted on 10/09/2012 4:53:21 AM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
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To: markomalley

Yet they are selling it with claims that it will allow for firefighters to get equipment and will ensure that schools don’t hire child molesters.

The unions are sick, yet I fear they are fooling a lot of the populace. If this proposal passes, I will need to consider leaving this state.


50 posted on 10/09/2012 6:13:34 AM PDT by CSM (Keeper of the Dave Ramsey Ping list. FReepmail me if you want your beeber stuned.)
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