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USADA report reveals Lance Armstrong as the greatest fraud in American sports
Yahoo Sports ^ | 10/10/12 | Jay Hart

Posted on 10/11/2012 9:55:58 AM PDT by AmericanSamurai

Officially, Jose "Pepe" Marti was listed as trainer for the Postal Service cycling team. But those on the team knew him as "The Courier."

One day while chatting with Tyler Hamilton, Pepe told the Postal Service surrogate that he had to drive to Nice, France, to make a delivery. That night, at the Villa d'Este Restaurant in Nice, Pepe arrived to a late dinner that included Lance Armstrong and his then-wife, Kristin, as well as Betsy Andreu, wife of Postal rider Frankie Andreu. According to Betsy, the reason given for the late dinner was because Pepe was there to deliver EPO (erythropoietin, a banned hormone that controls red blood cell production) to Lance and it was safer for him to cross the border with illegal drugs at night.

After dinner was over, the Armstrongs drove Betsy home. At some point, she saw Pepe hand Lance a brown paper bag. As Armstrong opened the car door for Andreu, he smiled, held up the bag and said, "Liquid gold."

On another occasion, as the Armstrongs and Andreus drove to a bike race in Milan, Italy, Armstrong stopped at a hotel/gas station outside Milan to meet Dr. Michele Ferrari, now infamous for supplying cyclists with performance-enhancing drugs. When asked why they were meeting him in such an odd place, Armstrong replied, "So the [expletive] press doesn't hound him." Leaving the other three in the car, Armstrong disappeared into Ferrari's camper for about an hour. When he returned, Armstrong exclaimed, "My numbers are great!" – the insinuation being he wouldn't test positive for performance-enhancing drugs.

The next day, Betsy Andreu asked Kristin Armstrong about her feelings on EPO. Her answer: It's a necessary evil.

Just three months later, Lance Armstrong won the 1999 Tour de France.

(Excerpt) Read more at sports.yahoo.com ...


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1 posted on 10/11/2012 9:56:02 AM PDT by AmericanSamurai
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To: AmericanSamurai

Every damn athlete uses something these days. Meds are meds.


2 posted on 10/11/2012 9:57:31 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (r)
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To: AmericanSamurai

So how did he never cail a drug test....ever? Doesn’t add up to me.


3 posted on 10/11/2012 9:58:58 AM PDT by CAluvdubya (ABO)
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To: Sacajaweau
PEDs are not meds.
4 posted on 10/11/2012 9:59:08 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: Baynative; luv2ski; concentric circles; Ready4Freddy; Eurotwit; Vision
I don't know what to believe ping...
5 posted on 10/11/2012 9:59:47 AM PDT by nutmeg (I'm with Sarah Palin and Ted Cruz: Romney / Ryan 2012)
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To: AmericanSamurai

I do not care what these evil b’stards say.

Lance does not have to play their game.

He is a man; they are weasels.

I wish some of Lance’s friend, like GW Bush, would help him out on this.


6 posted on 10/11/2012 9:59:47 AM PDT by shalom aleichem
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To: CAluvdubya

Argh.... Fail not cail


7 posted on 10/11/2012 10:00:16 AM PDT by CAluvdubya (ABO)
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To: CAluvdubya
So how did he never cail a drug test....ever? Doesn’t add up to me.

Same here. Something isn't right about this whole mess.

8 posted on 10/11/2012 10:00:29 AM PDT by frogjerk (OBAMA NOV 2012 = HORSEMEAT)
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To: shalom aleichem

From what I understand, Lance is a huge Obamoid. lol

I wouldn’t care if Lance were a Conservative, if he cheated, they should strip all those wins.


9 posted on 10/11/2012 10:01:30 AM PDT by AmericanSamurai
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To: CAluvdubya
Testing for EPO did not exist at first. The reason EPO was used was because it was not initially testable.

The whole point of cheating is not getting caught - which means keeping one step ahead of the tests in the technology you use.

It's simple logic: if the testmakers were creative enough to predict how the testfakers would find a way around the test, and they would anticipate that workaround . . . ad inifinitum.

10 posted on 10/11/2012 10:02:06 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: CAluvdubya
"So how did he never fail a drug test....ever? Doesn’t add up to me."

And where were all these so-called witnesses while this was supposedly all going on. We're talking years and years here. They're testifying against him now, but where were they then? Were they doing the drugs too? And if it's true, who were his enablers? All of a sudden, this guy's an evil person? It doesn't add up to me either.

11 posted on 10/11/2012 10:04:24 AM PDT by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway...John Wayne)
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To: shalom aleichem

“I wish some of Lance’s friend, like GW Bush, would help him out on this.”

You can’t be series.


12 posted on 10/11/2012 10:04:57 AM PDT by EDINVA (I)
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To: AmericanSamurai

Dumping his wife for Sheryl Crow told me all I needed to know about Lance’s ethics.


13 posted on 10/11/2012 10:05:58 AM PDT by OrangeHoof (Our economy won't heal until one particular black man is unemployed.)
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14 posted on 10/11/2012 10:05:58 AM PDT by musicman (Until I see the REAL Long Form Vault BC, he's just "PRES__ENT" Obama = Without "ID")
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To: nutmeg
Come on nutmeg...did you read Hamilton's book yet?

Armstrong is not only guilty, he's one nasty SOB. Anyone who things Armstrong is innocent is utterly ignorant of the facts or is a fool. I'm sorry, not trying to be mean but it's the truth.

The only reason the US doping case against Armstrong was dismissed last year was because of a political appointee doing the will of the Armstrong team. You simply can't imagine how bad Armstrong really is. I also think back to how Armstrong drove his former assistant out of the country who is now living in New Zealand.

15 posted on 10/11/2012 10:10:03 AM PDT by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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To: OrangeHoof

Well what did you expect, he’s a liberal !


16 posted on 10/11/2012 10:11:58 AM PDT by AmericanSamurai
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To: AmericanSamurai

I am pretty torn about this whole deal.

On the one hand, it is obvious that Armstrong was doping. I think it is probably also true that he was a ringleader in the doping for his teams. But I also think his wife is right to the extent of is being a “necessary evil” for the top riders. All of the top riders were doping, and it should be obvious to everyone paying attention that this was a sport-wide phenomena not limited just to Lance and his team.

OTOH, I’m unclear why the USADA is going after a retired athlete. I also find it really alarming how there is alack of due process for accused athletes with the USADA.

Was Lance doping? Of course.

But is it within the USADA’s jurisdiction to investigate a retired athlete regarding a well-known dirty sport? And is it appropriate that the USADA could act as prosecutor, judge and jury?

What if the USADA went after Ronnie Coleman for doping in the sport of professional bodybuilding? It is plainly obvious that *every* contestant in Mr. Universe contests is doping. So would it be appropriate for the USADA to single out one retired champ like Coleman for sins of the past that everyone in the sport was doing?


17 posted on 10/11/2012 10:12:36 AM PDT by Chameleon
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To: CAluvdubya

Marion Jones never failed a drug test either.


18 posted on 10/11/2012 10:12:43 AM PDT by FewsOrange
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To: Vision

No kidding! Some people worship Armstrong like they do obama.

As if he’s a paragon of virtue and all that is good, lol.


19 posted on 10/11/2012 10:13:45 AM PDT by AmericanSamurai
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To: wideawake
The reason EPO was used was because it was not initially testable.

The real reason was nothing else increased your hematocrit level like EPO.
20 posted on 10/11/2012 10:14:30 AM PDT by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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To: AmericanSamurai

I can’t believe he’s from Texas, and he’s just another cheatin A-hole liberal.


21 posted on 10/11/2012 10:15:34 AM PDT by AmericanSamurai
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To: frogjerk

As a doctor, I’m really at a lost to understand this.

Erythropoietin is used in treating anemia also in the treatment of cancer. I’m not sure how this aids in cycling unless it has other attributes on increasing skeletal muscle, but it doesn’t it increases smooth muscle fibers.

If Armstrong is getting benfit from the hormone, then you would think his RBCs are sky high and thusly it would be obvious. If his RBC levels are normal or low, then how is he benefiting from the hormone?

I mean we’re not talking steroids.

Secondly, are we to believe that he pulled this off over a period of 7 years, and countless drug tests?

I can understand him getting away with it the first couple years, but they’re not able to catch him during 7 years?


22 posted on 10/11/2012 10:16:08 AM PDT by nikos1121
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To: Vision

I agree that Armstrong is guilty, and a nasty SOB.

And yet, I think two of his complaints are valid: 1. He was unfairly targeted, and 2. There is a lack of due process with regards to the USADA.


23 posted on 10/11/2012 10:16:30 AM PDT by Chameleon
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To: AmericanSamurai
If you read Hamilton's book you'll see that in the 80’s you could be a dominate American rider, but when you went to Europe you got run over by the strength of dopers. It took a while for Americans to figure it out, but once they did, they did it more and on other level than it had been done...which is how Lance took the ‘99 TDF.
24 posted on 10/11/2012 10:19:17 AM PDT by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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To: AmericanSamurai

I have to admit that the hear-say evidence is overwhelming, but it is interesting that every single one of the witnesses against Armstrong failed multiple drug tests and Lance never failed a single one.

I will never be able to say that Lance did NOT dope, but in the absence of concrete evidence I will never be able to say Lance DID dope.

And therein lies the crux of the whole matter - while the testimony is pretty overwhelming and damning the bottom line is it is all circumstantial evidence and hearsay evidence.


25 posted on 10/11/2012 10:20:56 AM PDT by commish (Freedom tastes sweetest to those who have fought to preserve it.)
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To: frogjerk

I don’t know who in the cycling world gave these anti-doping agencies such authority, but I bet they regret it now. I agree with Lance’s decision not to contest the charges — why spend years and millions going over “he said-she said” testimony?

Sure, drugs are bad, mmkay? But the point of drug testing in a sport is to enforce agreed-upon rules banning certain substances so as to ensure a level playing field. If you have passed the tests you were required to take, is there really an obligation on your part to prove that you also wouldn’t have tested positive if they had better tests at the time, especially years after the fact?

For the protection of the sport I should have hoped that the ICF or the French TdF authorities would apply a statute of limitations to the doping agencies’ inquiries. Who now won the Tours that Lance has now forfeited? I’d bet a majority of the other guys on the podia either have already been convicted of doping infractions of their own, or could not stand up to a probe of the intensity of the one Lance got; if they had a race, and nobody won — was there really a race?


26 posted on 10/11/2012 10:24:27 AM PDT by thanatz
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To: nikos1121
The three most popular methods of doping are EPO for raising hematocrit levels, testosterone for healing worn muscles, and blood transfusions to increase hematocrit levels when authorities will be testing for EPO and such.

One of Armstong’s weapons is to claim outrageous facts. Armstong has tested positive for dope a few times, but was always about to work the system and intimidated reporters about it.

His “chicken's are coming home to roust.”

27 posted on 10/11/2012 10:24:41 AM PDT by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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To: commish

Can’t the whole thing be judged by deductive reasoning? I mean take for example a murderer who successfully gets rid of the body to the point where no one will ever find it, does that mean they are innocent?


28 posted on 10/11/2012 10:25:18 AM PDT by AmericanSamurai
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To: Chameleon
And yet, I think two of his complaints are valid: 1. He was unfairly targeted, and 2. There is a lack of due process with regards to the USADA.

Please read Hamilton's book and tell me what you think. He was not unfairly targeted and the USADA prosecutor was forced to drop the case by a political appointee not involved with the investigation.
29 posted on 10/11/2012 10:27:30 AM PDT by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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To: Chameleon

http://www.amazon.com/The-Secret-Race-Cover-ups-Winning/dp/0345530411


30 posted on 10/11/2012 10:27:49 AM PDT by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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To: commish
but it is interesting that every single one of the witnesses against Armstrong failed multiple drug tests and Lance never failed a single one.

That's an Armstrong lie. He's fail a few going back to the early 2000's.
31 posted on 10/11/2012 10:29:30 AM PDT by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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To: Vision

Two words that should tip people off about Lance’s actual character (PR and appeals to sport patriotism aside): Sheryl Crow


32 posted on 10/11/2012 10:30:13 AM PDT by katana (Just my opinions)
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To: commish

“I have to admit that the hear-say evidence is overwhelming, but it is interesting that every single one of the witnesses against Armstrong failed multiple drug tests and Lance never failed a single one.”

George Hincapie never tested positive either, was Lance’s main riding team partner, etc....And he has now fessed up and said they were all using, despite having a clean reputation himself.

Hincapie has thrown himself under the bus when he didn’t need to in an effort to change the culture of the sport.


33 posted on 10/11/2012 10:31:23 AM PDT by Chameleon
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To: Chameleon
Hincapie has thrown himself under the bus when he didn’t need to in an effort to change the culture of the sport.

I'm under the impression Hincapie only came forward under the witness stand.
34 posted on 10/11/2012 10:32:46 AM PDT by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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To: CAluvdubya
So how did he never cail a drug test....ever?

He did fail one. Since this obviously was unacceptable to Team Lance, he had a doctor write an "excuse" for him and the drug test was nullified (excuse was something like another drug interfering, but it was bogus).

Also, you have to realize these people are professionals and the best in the world at bicycling. They are also professionals and the best in the world at evading drug tests. Sometimes it's as simple as not answering a knock at the door. Or having a lookout in the hotel to warn the others of a tester coming through. This is why Team Lance always knew where the closest fire escape was.

35 posted on 10/11/2012 10:35:30 AM PDT by steve86
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To: katana

Sheryl is an idiot in many ways but I believe Armstrong is more evil.


36 posted on 10/11/2012 10:39:21 AM PDT by steve86 (Acerbic by nature not nurture TM)
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To: AmericanSamurai
just for the record, EPO is a very expensive,legal drug and is used to help boost the health of chemo/cancer/dialysis patients....

EPO is NOT evil for those patients that depend on it...

37 posted on 10/11/2012 10:39:51 AM PDT by cherry
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To: cherry
EPO is much cheaper in Europe, particularly in Spain where doping is basically legal.
38 posted on 10/11/2012 10:41:39 AM PDT by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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To: nikos1121

I’m guessing that since it increases red blood cells, you therefore carry more oxygen in the blood. More oxygen to the muscles = better performance, more stamina. Perhaps, since one can perform better, one can push harder during training, so it helps to build muscle in an indirect way.


39 posted on 10/11/2012 10:42:27 AM PDT by RedWhiteBlue (Mama tried)
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To: AmericanSamurai
People, come on. He did it. The thing is, EVERYBODY in this particualar sport does it too! The governing body of cycling looks the other way.

In 1998 Lance was pissed that guys who were dirty were beating him. So he decided to join them. So did his teammates.

I heard a stat on the radio once that if you were to give the Tour de France trophy to the rider that was never suspected of taking PEDs that you'd have to go to the #23 rider. The sport is dirty. Everybody knows it, nobody cares.

40 posted on 10/11/2012 10:46:28 AM PDT by thefactor (yes, as a matter of fact, i DID only read the excerpt)
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To: AmericanSamurai

That’s a big If

but they’ve already “stripped him of his medals”.

They will never denigrate his great acheivements.


41 posted on 10/11/2012 10:48:10 AM PDT by shalom aleichem
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To: commish

I don’t believe eyewitness testimony is hearsay.


42 posted on 10/11/2012 10:48:10 AM PDT by Third Person (I'm in my prime.)
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To: RedWhiteBlue

Your RBC count would be sky high.

If he’s taking testosterone, the levels might actually be lower since it suppresses the body’s levels.

I think in summary, this is the bottom line. Armstrong, realizing that “virtually everyone cycling” is doping, figured that he’s not going to get beat by someone who is doping. So he sets up a sophisticated system to beat them at their own game.

If we’re talking about affecting muscle type, fast twitch vs slow twitch, (these guys are all slow twitchers I’m sure), then what he’s doing might in fact increase his stamina.

the other thing, is the benefits would come during training periods, and not be detected on race day.


43 posted on 10/11/2012 10:48:32 AM PDT by nikos1121
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To: EDINVA

W’s help would be hugh


44 posted on 10/11/2012 10:49:34 AM PDT by shalom aleichem
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To: RedWhiteBlue

What is the downside to taking EPO? Does it have long-term health ramifications?


45 posted on 10/11/2012 10:53:26 AM PDT by dfwgator (I'm voting for Ryan and that other guy.)
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To: shalom aleichem

Wow...if an athlete cannot win on personal endurance; mentally and physically...they should not be so amitious as to have to try and alter their body’s functions for heaven sakes! This man worships winning, that is the problem. Huge ego.


46 posted on 10/11/2012 10:53:28 AM PDT by fabian (" And a new day will dawn for those who stand long, and the forests will echo with laughter"you min)
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To: Vision

I think he spilled to the USADA before he went to grand jury.

WRT Lance being unfairly targeted...Look, I know he’s a guilty, nasty SOB as you asy. I just don’t really see where it is in the USADA charter to go after a guy for stuff that happened so long ago. Seems to me more like the USADA is trying to make a name for themselves by showing the world that they will take down a famous American.

I agree with the judge who dismissed Lance’s lawsuit when he said, “As mystifying as USADA’s election to proceed at this date and in this manner may be, it is equally
perplexing that these three national and international bodies are apparently unable to work together
to accomplish their shared goalthe regulation and promotion of cycling.”


47 posted on 10/11/2012 10:54:24 AM PDT by Chameleon
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To: nikos1121

I think it is pretty well documented how much of an edge the riders were gaining a decade ago...

Here is a good link:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-18921784

Dr Tucker says you can see a marked difference between today and the bad old days when there were no tests for blood doping or drugs such as EPO.

“In the late 1990s and early 2000s if you were going to be competitive and win the Tour de France you would have to be able to cycle between 6.4 and 6.7 watts per kilogram at the end of a day’s stage.

“What we are seeing now, in the last three or four years, is that the speed of the front of the peloton [of] men like Bradley Wiggins, Chris Froome and Vincenzo Nibali, is about 10% down compared to that generation and now the power output at the front is about 6W/kg.”


48 posted on 10/11/2012 11:00:46 AM PDT by Chameleon
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To: AmericanSamurai
IMHO..this is more about the power of the USDA...than about “doping’ per se...

Its a feather in their cap to bring down an Armstrong...and they need to do something of the sort to “legitimize” their existence and function. No bureaucracy will tolerate an individual thumbing their nose at it.

49 posted on 10/11/2012 11:02:16 AM PDT by mo (If you understand, no explanation is needed. If you don't understand, no explanation is possible.)
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To: Chameleon
I just don’t really see where it is in the USADA charter to go after a guy for stuff that happened so long ago.

The main case was anti trust I believe. Companies gave Armstong millions if he won each TdF and these are now going away, among other business concerns.
50 posted on 10/11/2012 11:02:56 AM PDT by Vision ("Did I not say to you that if you would believe, you would see the glory of God?" John 11:40)
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