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Pentagon Probe After Nuclear Submarine Crash
Sky News ^

Posted on 10/14/2012 5:58:48 AM PDT by Sub-Driver

Pentagon Probe After Nuclear Submarine Crash

Military officials are investigating after a nuclear submarine collided with a Navy cruiser during routine operations.

The Pentagon is investigating why a Navy nuclear submarine collided with an Aegis cruiser off the East Coast.

The US Fleet Forces Command said the USS Montpelier submarine and the Aegis cruiser USS San Jacinto crashed at about 3.30pm on Saturday during routine operations.

No one was injured, and the extent of any damage to the vessels is unclear.

Both Navy ships are based at Norfolk, Virginia. The Pentagon did not say where the collision took place.

"We have had circumstances where Navy vessels have collided at sea in the past, but they're fairly rare as to how often they do take place," Lieutenant Commander Brian Badura said.

"If we do have an incident that does take place, there are folks that swing into action to help us make a better, more conclusive explanation of exactly what happened."

(Excerpt) Read more at news.sky.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: collision; navy; usnavy
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1 posted on 10/14/2012 5:58:50 AM PDT by Sub-Driver
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To: Sub-Driver

Multiple naval careers sunk. Film at eleven.


2 posted on 10/14/2012 6:05:38 AM PDT by maine yankee (I got my Governor at 'Marden's')
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To: All

Doh...


3 posted on 10/14/2012 6:16:48 AM PDT by newnhdad (Where will you be during the Election Riots of 2012/2013?)
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To: maine yankee

Bingo.

And if it is not so, we are in a world of hurt.


4 posted on 10/14/2012 6:20:41 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est.)
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To: maine yankee

Obama’s campaign will blame it on the video, then on ‘intelligence’, and then finally blame the Republicans for being pro-military and distracting the Navy from their “no man’s behind left alone” policy.


5 posted on 10/14/2012 6:36:07 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Sub-Driver

It was happy hour in the Post-DADT homo lounge and the duty personnel were “distracted”?


6 posted on 10/14/2012 6:41:58 AM PDT by Tucker39
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To: Sub-Driver

Never heard of ships “crashing” into each other. Ships collide.


7 posted on 10/14/2012 6:59:32 AM PDT by FReepaholic (Stupidity is not a crime, so you're free to go.)
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To: FReepaholic
Never heard of ships “crashing” into each other. Ships collide.

True, but there was only one ship. The other one was a boat. I guess if the Captain rammed the ship, his career came crashing down? Anyway, if an enlisted man becomes an officer, he might be called a mustang. Can an officer become an enlisted man? What would he be called? Have you ever heard of an officer getting busted to enlisted?

8 posted on 10/14/2012 7:26:28 AM PDT by bobzeetwin
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To: bobzeetwin

That is an interesting question, but I’ve certainly never heard of an officer being busted to enlisted. An officer is truly supposed to be a “gentleman,” and is expected to maintain a level of comportment. Anything beneath that level would not be grounds for simply lowering his rank; it would be grounds for dismissal. There are situations where a senior officer might through indirect fault, be made to accept the consequences-such as the grounding of a vessel. In this case, they might lose their command, and accept a transfer if otherwise deemed to be a good officer.


9 posted on 10/14/2012 7:56:47 AM PDT by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: Lou L
Is it really informative that the Montpelier is a "nuclear" submarine? Aren't all U.S. Navy submarines nuclear-powered? The Montpelier is a Los Angeles class attack submarine not a boomer.

is this just standard journalism that requires an adjective salad like all waters are either icy or shark-infested?

10 posted on 10/14/2012 8:08:36 AM PDT by Procyon (Decentralize, degovernmentalize, deregulate, demonopolize, decredentialize, disentitle.)
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To: Lou L

It sometimes happens that an officer will leave active service after his commitment then join a reserve unit near his home. Sometime that reserve unit has no open billets for officers, so the former officer will join as an NCO.

This enables him to accumulate points toward retirement. This is NOT as a result of being demoted.


11 posted on 10/14/2012 8:21:31 AM PDT by BwanaNdege (Man has often lost his way, but modern man has lost his address - Gilbert K. Chesterton)
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To: Lou L

“An officer is truly supposed to be a “gentleman,” and is expected to maintain a level of comportment.”

A joke if there ever was one. This may have had a kernel of truth 160 years ago. But -most-enlisteds today are at least the equal of of officers in comportment and class, and normally their betters. Our officer corps today is filled with craven self servers,, and political idealogues.
Most of the atrocities and outrages of our military today are laid flatly at the feet of the vaunted officers. Abu Graib, to denying fire support to Marines in a firefight, to exusing, coddling and hiding MAJOR Hassan. It’s always officers knowing, yet NOT leading the charge. And i forget, how many officers resigned in protest recently,,over ANYTHING? Queers? Homo classes forced on grunts in combat, rules of engagement that murder our men, etc?

NO, the Officers are almost universally no longer gentlemen or worthy of respect.


12 posted on 10/14/2012 8:47:03 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: DesertRhino

Tough truths that FReepers don’t want to hear!


13 posted on 10/14/2012 8:50:45 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Procyon

And all weapons used in a crime are “semi-automatic...”


14 posted on 10/14/2012 9:04:52 AM PDT by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: DesertRhino

That’s a very cynical opinion. While there are certainly officers who kowtow too easily to political pressure in an effort to boost their careers, it’s been my experience that the training and indoctrination they receive separates them from the enlisted classes. And as a former enlisted man—while there are some very decent ones, worthy of fulfilling the expectations of officers—the majority are not generally not. I don’t mean they’re not honorable, brave, or otherwise patriotic; it’s just that they’re not exposed to the same experiences, education or expectations as officers.


15 posted on 10/14/2012 9:18:23 AM PDT by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: DesertRhino
Officers are almost universally no longer gentlemen or worthy of respect.

The ones that are are driven out by political quislings using propaganda as law! See Chessani and West as examples.

16 posted on 10/14/2012 9:21:14 AM PDT by brityank (The more I learn about the Constitution, the more I realise this Government is UNconstitutional !!)
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To: bobzeetwin; Lou L
Can an officer become an enlisted man?

I knew a sergeant once who had been a major, was passed-over for promotion too many times, but was close to 20 years service, so he was allowed to remain in the service, but as an enlisted guy until he hit 20 years, at which time he would be allowed to retire as a major.

Note that this was not for any active malfeasance on his part; his only error was that he wasn't good enough to get promoted.

17 posted on 10/14/2012 9:24:17 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: DesertRhino

I would say you are being a little harsh. Sounds like you had some less than pleasant experiences with your officers as we all did. You should not be lumped in with some generality about enlisted any more than to put all officers in one category. Some cops are bad, some teachers are bad, some priests, some brokers, etc. But not all. I think on the whole, our armed services are predominately filled with honorable and honest men and women, enlisted and officers.

Please don’t take this as a condescending remark, but after Viet Nam, my bitterness went away in a few years. Hopefully yours will.


18 posted on 10/14/2012 9:37:39 AM PDT by bobzeetwin
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To: Tucker39

It most likely happen due to temperature layers in the water that block sound in the water. It makes it hard to hear surface craft. STS2 SS (That is the rate of a submarine sonar tech for four years)


19 posted on 10/14/2012 9:41:11 AM PDT by bmwcyle (Corollary - Electing the same person over and over and expecting a different outcome is insanity)
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To: bobzeetwin
Can an officer become an enlisted man? What would he be called? Have you ever heard of an officer getting busted to enlisted?

That actually does happen. I had a SGM in Germany that had been a 1st LT during Viet Nam. After the war he was offered the choice of an early out or an administrative reduction to E-7 due to reduction in force levels. He was a great SGM, really looked after us troops.
20 posted on 10/14/2012 9:47:37 AM PDT by Tailback
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To: Lou L
I don’t mean they’re not honorable, brave, or otherwise patriotic; it’s just that they’re not exposed to the same experiences, education or expectations as officers.

When I was in a Finance unit in Germany our unit had two young female LT's. One had a degree in outdoor recreation, the other a degree in sociology. There were 6 enlisted with bachelors degrees in either accounting or finance, 3 were E-4, the remainder E-6. The CO had a history degree, the XO a philosophy degree.

So you're correct, they surely didn't have the same education.
21 posted on 10/14/2012 9:55:26 AM PDT by Tailback
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To: DuncanWaring; Tailback

Thanks for the information. Interesting. I would imagine a former officer would be a great NCO. I remember after Viet Nam guys were offered E7 jobs during the reduction in force, but I was wondering if you could be demoted to enlisted rather than being forced out or transferred to a recruiting station in Cambridge Ma.


22 posted on 10/14/2012 10:01:49 AM PDT by bobzeetwin
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To: Procyon
Is it really informative that the Montpelier is a "nuclear" submarine? Aren't all U.S. Navy submarines nuclear-powered?

The word "nuclear" is required because for the average MSM hack it is a synonym for "scary." Everybody knows anything "nuclear" is at any given moment only a hairsbreadth away from exploding and/or melting a hole to the center of the earth.

23 posted on 10/14/2012 10:49:04 AM PDT by GATOR NAVY
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To: Tailback

You should be a pollster for the AP...surely this data point you describe is indicative of all military officers and their enlisted counterparts.


24 posted on 10/14/2012 10:50:40 AM PDT by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: Lou L

I had a SSGT that had been a Capt. He was commissioned in a cadet program before finishing college in the latter days of
WW2 and was a company CO in Korean conflict, was riffed due
to lack of degree and stayed in as sgt., finished degree and remained enlisted to receive retirement. His buddy from school days in same program year behind, was in his company in Korea, but then got in aviation and avoided riff. Buddy
was assigned to our battalion as exc officer {Major}
and came in a week before existing exc was to move out. New
exc spent the week in my office with the SSGt. The exc finishing his tour had been a sgt at Ft Belvoir a 2 years before and was in the group of instructors when I was a cadet. Time1961-1965


25 posted on 10/14/2012 11:08:31 AM PDT by TweetEBird007
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To: Lou L

And your snarky ad-hominem attacks combined with condescension would make you a great VP, General, or Democratic senator.


26 posted on 10/14/2012 11:09:04 AM PDT by Tailback
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To: Procyon

What is next? Nuclear powered sharks infesting icy waters? ;-)


27 posted on 10/14/2012 11:12:15 AM PDT by SgtBob (Freedom is not for the faint of heart. Semper Fi!)
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To: Tailback

There was nothing ad hominen or snarky a out my post to you. If you re-read my posts, I spoke in generalities, that military officers are supposed to be held to a higher standard than enlisted men. They are supposed to be gentlemen (and ladies, I suppose), but they are human, and are subject to imperfections. I’m sure that there are numerous instances of enlisted personnel who would be excellent officers, but in my experience, that’s USUALLY not the case. You point at outliers, and like the previous poster, insinuate that the entire military is like that.


28 posted on 10/14/2012 11:33:25 AM PDT by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: Sub-Driver

Anyone watching that new series called “Last Resort”?


29 posted on 10/14/2012 11:47:31 AM PDT by Hot Tabasco (Jab him with a harpoon.....)
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To: DesertRhino
Had not been around any of the new breed of officer until I worked for a retired navy nuke sub type at my last job. He was one of those Rickover-selected types he claimed. Complete arsehole, ignorant engineer, and total buffoon that loves to hear himself talk.

I get the feeling he is typical of the current sort of self promoter always looking for the next bit of advancement by climbing over anyone's back that is available. He had that trait I had heard about (zero defects) that when anything went wrong, first thing he did was go find someone to pin it on. I quit and retired in disgust.

Back in my day, the officers I dealt with were mostly combat pilots, and I got along fine with them. Mutual respect.

30 posted on 10/14/2012 12:02:21 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: DesertRhino

You sound like a one enlistment pain in the neck, a detriment to the morale of any outfit.


31 posted on 10/14/2012 12:05:38 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Exterminate rats.)
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To: bobzeetwin

Yes! There were several RIFs (Reduction in Force) after WW II and Korea.

Back in 1963, I knew a retired USAF Full Bull Colonel B-52 Command Pilot who served his last two years or so as an E-8. He was enlisted, went through pilot training and got commissioned during WW II.

There was a provision to allow RIFFed Officers to continue on active duty so as to qualify for a 20 year retirement at their highest grade honorably held.

Don’t know if that particular “benefit” is still available to former enlisted men who accept a commission and are later RIFFed.


32 posted on 10/14/2012 12:21:35 PM PDT by Taxman (So that the beautiful pressure does not diminish!)
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To: Sub-Driver

A career ending event!


33 posted on 10/14/2012 12:22:33 PM PDT by Taxman (So that the beautiful pressure does not diminish!)
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To: bmwcyle

Well, yeah, but in this case it’s obvious the boundary layer was ZERO inches thick. Those surface screws would have been audible THRU THE HULL assuming the surface ship was moving.


34 posted on 10/14/2012 12:23:52 PM PDT by cherokee1 (skip the names---just kick the buttz)
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To: Taxman
Saw the same thing with an Army Master Sergent, E-8, in 1968, did his 30 and retired as a Major. Operations Sergent in a Transportation Battalion, RED BALL in WW2.
35 posted on 10/14/2012 12:35:22 PM PDT by Little Bill
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To: cherokee1

I have heard screws through the hull. I called emergency deep three times.


36 posted on 10/14/2012 12:37:23 PM PDT by bmwcyle (Corollary - Electing the same person over and over and expecting a different outcome is insanity)
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To: Tailback
The Marines promoted a lot Senior NCO’s to Officer Rank, or preverted as my Cousins say, during Viet Nam. The Crotch had need for experienced Company Grade Officers, so unlike the Army they did the logical thing.
37 posted on 10/14/2012 12:43:01 PM PDT by Little Bill
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To: DesertRhino

Shame on you! You are besmirching and belittling the dedicated service of thousands of officers of all branches of the Armed Services who have served honorably and well.

As in all organizations, military officers and enlisted comprise a cross section of the society, and run the gamut FRom VERY superior leaders and managers to the totally incompetent dregs who do not contribute to accomplishing the mission.

The trick for the superior officers and enlisted it to, somehow, despite all the roadblocks put in their way, to make the system work.

And, for the most part, they succeed.

Self aggrandizing politicians and civilian poobahs who have large egos and are far more dangerous to the military than are serving officers!

Out yourself and tell us who, what, how and why you came to believe as you do.


38 posted on 10/14/2012 12:46:12 PM PDT by Taxman (So that the beautiful pressure does not diminish!)
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To: DesertRhino

PS I double dare you to repeat your comment to LTC Allen West, USA (Ret)!


39 posted on 10/14/2012 12:47:23 PM PDT by Taxman (So that the beautiful pressure does not diminish!)
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To: DesertRhino

I’ve seen pilots out partying overseas. Wasn’t a gentleman in the bunch.


40 posted on 10/14/2012 12:51:41 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Taxman

Yes the Lt Col West types generally retire at Lt Col for a reason. Its a shame but the politics are more generally important than performance.


41 posted on 10/14/2012 12:56:02 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Lou L; Tailback

Everyone in the military is expected to behave as a gentlemen or lady.

The idea that enlisted personnel wouldn’t make excellent officers just because they are enlisted is disgusting to say the least. People are people, either you are a leader or not.

I’ve met good leaders in both categories and I’ve met plenty of bad ones in both as well.


42 posted on 10/14/2012 1:01:23 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
What about General Otis, LTC at the time, more balls than most, served, Enlisted Scum at the time, under him for 9 months in Viet Nam.
43 posted on 10/14/2012 1:02:10 PM PDT by Little Bill
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To: Little Bill

So you decry besmirching officers and then condemn enlisted. typical

btw, next time try to write a coherent sentence.


44 posted on 10/14/2012 1:04:59 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
“Scum of The Earth Enlisted for Drink”, Duke of Wellington on his troops after Waterloo.

I did two tours in Viet Nam, 1965-1968 with the 25th Division, 2/35 and 3/4th Cav. I went from PVT to SSG, mostly by inheritance, what is your bona fides, I have seen dumb asses and I have seen leaders, and we lived in the Mushroom farm most of the time.

Condemn Enlisted yes, ever work or try to work with a bunch of “Johnson's 100,000?”

45 posted on 10/14/2012 1:30:02 PM PDT by Little Bill
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To: DesertRhino

“Our officer corps today is filled with craven self servers, and political idealogues.”

I don’t know about “political idealogues” being so, but I am witnessing the “craven self servers” in the ranks of regular army officers. It was that way during peace, and lessened considerably during war because promotion rates went up so much (there were several years when the selection rate for regular army officers from captain to major as over 100%). That started to turn around about two years ago and this last year dramatically dropped to only 80% considered for promotion to major were selected. I expect it to go lower. Of course the even higher ranks are dropping faster.

What I am seeing amoung “majors” is the developement of a cutthroat mentality where seeing a fellow officer screw up and hurt their future promotion potential is getting bad - plus I suspect the desire to assist a fellow to screw up. Plus, the atttitude of “zero defects allowed” is causing them to refuse to ever admit error...ever. They are becoming intolerable to work with because of their self serving. If one will read the old book (NOT the movie) “The Caine Mutiny” you will see a whole bunch of Queeg’s in the regular army....I would speculate the Navy is worse.


46 posted on 10/14/2012 1:36:43 PM PDT by Sola Veritas (Trying to speak truth - not always with the best grammar or spelling)
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To: Sola Veritas

You nailed it. As I posted, I worked with one of those zero defects clowns. Totally ignorant of the engineering disciplines he was supposedly in charge of, but never let that stop him from trying to direct traffic. And of course, when something broke or did not work, he started a frantic search for the guilty. Often, it was due to a decision he made from his ignorance, but no, someone else must be found in error.


47 posted on 10/14/2012 1:46:51 PM PDT by doorgunner69
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To: Little Bill

I was in during a period when they didn’t allow us to smoke weed and shoot smack.


48 posted on 10/14/2012 1:49:48 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver
Neither was I. To me weed always smelled like Chesterfields, I hated Chesterfields the smoke ripped your throat out so you were a candidate for LBJ if what smelled like Chesterfields wasn't, the smack came after my time.

I think that you watched Platoon to many times or the last half of Full Metal Jacket to many times.

49 posted on 10/14/2012 2:05:09 PM PDT by Little Bill
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To: driftdiver

LTC West was on his way to stars until the PC crowd did him in. Chair warming REMFs are dangerous to Warriors careers!

In a just world, the REMFs would have been court martialed!


50 posted on 10/14/2012 2:09:48 PM PDT by Taxman (So that the beautiful pressure does not diminish!)
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