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Libertarians could be spoilers in key Senate races
Politico ^

Posted on 10/15/2012 2:30:04 PM PDT by Arthurio

Democratic hopes of maintaining a razor-thin Senate majority may hinge on an unexpected outside force: Libertarians.

In the battlegrounds of Montana, Arizona and Missouri, polls show the Libertarian nominee poised to siphon a fraction of the vote — a small fraction, but potentially enough to tip the outcome in a cliffhanger. And with the battle for the Senate shaping up to be a coin-flip proposition, no factor — not even fringe candidates with little more than a Libertarian label to propel their campaigns — is too insignificant to dismiss.

Given the small-government mantra of Libertarian voters, Democratic officials see the development as a major boon.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1012/82379.html#ixzz29PEPJZAA

(Excerpt) Read more at politico.com ...


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 2012issues; thirdparty
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1 posted on 10/15/2012 2:30:07 PM PDT by Arthurio
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To: Arthurio

Why do they always blame the voters? Is it the fault of people that want small government that the GOP never runs small government candidates? Put the blame where it belongs, the party and its candidates.


2 posted on 10/15/2012 2:33:49 PM PDT by discostu (Not a part of anyone's well oiled machine.)
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To: Arthurio

If Libertarians want to do something profound, then they need to go get converts and not just be smug spoilers.

Europe is proof enough that handing the socialists victories does not end in a public epiphany to go in the opposite direction.

Leftists have been very successful being incremental and libertarians should keep that in mind. They should push to get more and more libertarian candidates, not take their ball and go home.


3 posted on 10/15/2012 2:36:05 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: discostu

I agree with you. And I’m not going to vote for Romney either. So what if Obama is re-elected?

/s


4 posted on 10/15/2012 2:40:43 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Arthurio

Grr!!! This makes me mad as this is exactly how we lost Slade Gorton to Maria-Can’t-Vote-Well. Some never to be remembered again Losertarian siphoned off Slade’s margin of victory (only 20 or 30K) and now we’ve had nearly two terms of Senatorial flatulence as a result. Slade wasn’t perfect, but he was a solid conservative. This was a big-big deal back in 2000 as it resulted in the 50/50 Senate split that hamstrung GWB’s first term, legislatively speaking, and now we’re going to pay again because the Bush tax cuts that would have been permanent with 51 Republican Senators are going to expire at the end of the year.


5 posted on 10/15/2012 2:41:20 PM PDT by Sparticus (Tar and feathers for the next dumb@ss Republican that uses the word bipartisanship.)
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To: SampleMan

Libertarians need to stop spoiling in the generals and start working more in the primaries to get libertairan minded Dems and Repubs on the tickets..


6 posted on 10/15/2012 2:41:59 PM PDT by GraceG
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To: All

As a libertarian, I recommend they wake up and realize the only answer is to take control of the RNC. No 3rd party candidate can win a national vote ever. That was taken care of decades ago. Check the criteria for getting on enough ballots to get enough electoral votes. It simply cannot happen. As to state elections, stop fooling yourselves. Take back the RNC. It is the only path to victory for your cause.


7 posted on 10/15/2012 2:47:41 PM PDT by Snuph ("give me Liberty...")
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To: discostu

is Rand Paul libertarian enough for y’all? Who is he backing in these races?


8 posted on 10/15/2012 2:49:57 PM PDT by campaignPete R-CT (campaigning for local conservatives)
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To: Responsibility2nd

I don’t see much difference between the two. Obomneycare will stay, the spending will stay, the EPA will stay.


9 posted on 10/15/2012 2:54:59 PM PDT by discostu (Not a part of anyone's well oiled machine.)
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To: campaignPete R-CT

Don’t know or care who he’s backing. I do my own research.


10 posted on 10/15/2012 2:56:25 PM PDT by discostu (Not a part of anyone's well oiled machine.)
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To: Arthurio

I am a libertarian myself and anyone who votes for anyone besides Romney has s**t for brains.

The next president is going to be either Obama or Romney. NO ONE ELSE!!

A vote for Ron Paul is a vote for Obama and anyone who says there is no difference is not a serious person and just not even worth debating.

If you are not happy with Romney (as I am not) then WORK THAT MUCH HARDER in the next election cycle to get someone closer to your beliefs nominated.

So go ahead and pout libertarian. Go ahead and vote in a manner that helps get Romney defeated.

You are a loser anyway.


11 posted on 10/15/2012 2:59:03 PM PDT by 429CJ (.)
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To: discostu

I don’t see much difference between the two. Obomneycare will stay, the spending will stay, the EPA will stay.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And Obama thanks you for your support.

Damn! If you don’t see much difference then you are BLIND. Was Romeny LYING when in the first debate he said he will repeal Obamacare? He might be. But still... You need to lose the lberal mindset and vote for Romney.


12 posted on 10/15/2012 3:20:04 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Yes he was. It’s based on his pride and joy. And frankly even if he wasn’t he wouldn’t be able to pull it off. He’s not getting a super majority, any attempt to over turn will die in Congress.

There’s no liberal mindset about it. Quite the opposite. I have the CONSERVATIVE mindset of never voting for a socialist, period.


13 posted on 10/15/2012 3:23:20 PM PDT by discostu (Not a part of anyone's well oiled machine.)
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To: Arthurio

Oh, great. Libertarians siphoning the vote. I shrug every time I heard the word Libertarians. Because I don’t know what they think they’re doing.


14 posted on 10/15/2012 3:25:40 PM PDT by righttackle44 ( I may not be much, but I raised a United States Marine . . .)
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To: discostu

I never enter political debates with children or idiots. People who don’t think BO will be FAR worse for America are one or the other. And unworthy of debate.


15 posted on 10/15/2012 3:33:10 PM PDT by 429CJ (.)
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To: Sparticus
"...Losertarian..."

With such compelling dialogue I find it hard to imagine that they don't embrace your point of view.
16 posted on 10/15/2012 3:35:45 PM PDT by j_k_l
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To: 429CJ

If all you’ve got is name calling you don’t enter debates, just flame wars. You also clearly don’t know history.

In the long run the numbers work out better for conservatives with a truly opposing president than a liberal with an R after his name. It’s all about midterm elections, the party of the sitting president loses seats in midterms, and the second midterm is a bloodbath (the dems hit par in 2006 half the time it’s bigger). So if obie wins the dems take a major bath in 2014, then an actual conservative R can take the White House in 2016 with workable majorities. If Romney wins he continues most of obie’s policies AND the dems gain seats in 2014, then if he wins reelection in 2016 the dems get major gains in 2018, and because sitting VPs often win the nomination but almost never win the presidency a dem gets the White House in 2020 with a workable majority.

You’ve got to understand the difference between the battle and the war. Some battles aren’t that bad to lose. I’d prefer a good republican in the White House, but none ran. So this is what we’ve got, 2 guys with very similar mindsets, 2 guys that will continue the run away spending, 2 guys where the only noticeable difference is the letter after their name, 2 guys that quite simply don’t deserve my vote.


17 posted on 10/15/2012 3:40:53 PM PDT by discostu (Not a part of anyone's well oiled machine.)
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To: Responsibility2nd

Thanks for helping the obunghole to SCREW ALL OF US.
If you can’t see the difference between these two people, I would recommend you get your eye glass prescription checked.
And any other meds you are on.
Just remember to tell me how happy you are when Obunghole doesn’t even have the courtesy to bring the K-Y when he screws you to.


18 posted on 10/15/2012 3:47:43 PM PDT by 5th MEB (Progressives in the open; --- FIRE FOR EFFECT!!)
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To: Arthurio
Democratic officials see the development as a major boon.

That says it all.

19 posted on 10/15/2012 3:51:28 PM PDT by Republican Wildcat
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To: Arthurio
polls show the Libertarian nominee poised to siphon a fraction of the vote — a small fraction, but potentially enough to tip the outcome in a cliffhanger.

L. Neil Smith's 2% solution. He's the first one I can recall proposing it as a strategy. Give me some time and I'll find the article.

Don't like it? Don't let RINOs run.

20 posted on 10/15/2012 3:53:11 PM PDT by Lee N. Field (Come, behold the works of the LORD, how he has brought desolations on the earth.)
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To: 429CJ
"I am a libertarian myself and anyone who votes for anyone besides Romney has s**t for brains."

Wow. What a positive, intellectual argument for Willard. You must be a charter member of MENSA.

21 posted on 10/15/2012 3:57:12 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: 5th MEB; discostu

Hi newbie.

I’d take the time to explain what “/s” meant in my post, but I’ll let disco tell you. After all - HE is the one you need to be ranting at.

Hey disco... Grab the lube and tell the newbie what a sarc tag is.

(lololol)


23 posted on 10/15/2012 4:07:23 PM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: Arthurio
Why is it that the Democrat Party is almost always referred to as the "Democratic Party"?

You never see or hear the Republican Party referred to as the "Republicanic Party".

24 posted on 10/15/2012 4:29:32 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: Arthurio

Blah, any cute Libertarian chics? :P


25 posted on 10/15/2012 4:31:29 PM PDT by AmericanSamurai
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To: SampleMan
Leftists have been very successful being incremental

Leftists are successful because government is a religion substitute for them.

Libertarians are the closest thing there is to dogged resistance to the leftists. They are the only real "counter-leftists" who are both persistent and consistent.

26 posted on 10/15/2012 4:37:26 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
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To: discostu

If you don’t see much difference between Obama and Romney, then you need to see this. And I do my research, also. None of this is based on anything Romney has SAID, it is purely based on his actions as Governor.


Here is the Club for Growth on Romney’s term as Governor, quotes regarding cutting size of government, entitlement reform, tax reform.


“On balance, his record comes out more positive than negative, especially when one considers that average spending increased only 2.22% over his four years, well below the population plus inflation benchmark of nearly 3%.”

“Governor Romney receives credit for reducing actual spending unilaterally in Fiscal Year FY2003, even though he entered office halfway into the fiscal year, because of the tremendous spending cuts he forced down the Legislature’s throat in January of 2003. Facing a $650 million deficit he inherited from the previous administration, Romney convinced the unfriendly State Legislature to grant him unilateral power to make budget cuts and unveiled $343 million in cuts to cities, healthcare, and state agencies. This fiscal discipline continued in 2004, in which Romney continued to slash “nearly every part of state government” to close a $3 billion deficit.”

“To his credit, Romney attempted to cut down on government spending by streamlining many duplicative and wasteful elements of Beacon Hill. Some of his more ambitious proposals were rejected by his über-liberal Legislature. These include: his plans to overhaul the wasteful Boston Municipal Court and close underused courthouses; merge the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority with the Highway Department; decentralize management of the University of Massachusetts; streamline the Alcoholic Beverage Control Commission; and phase out the obsolete Worcester State Hospital where employees outnumber patients nearly 3 to 1.”

“Governor Romney successfully consolidated the social service and public health bureaucracy and restructured the Metropolitan District Commission. Romney even eliminated half of the executive branch’s press positions, saving $1.2 million. He also used his emergency fiscal powers to make $425 million worth of cuts in 2006, taking particular aim at local earmarks, instead of allowing the Legislature to dip into the state’s $1.2 billion rainy day fund. While there is no question that Governor Romney’s initial fiscal discipline slacked off in the second half of his term, on balance, he imposed some much-needed fiscal discipline on a very liberal Massachusetts Legislature.”

“Romney fought for legislation that would bring Massachusetts’ welfare system up to date with federal standards by increasing the number of hours each week recipients must work and establishing a five-year limit for receiving benefits. Much to his credit and to the dismay of many Massachusetts liberals, Romney successfully forced Medicaid recipients to make co-payments for some services and successfully pushed for legislative action forcing new state workers to contribute 25% of their health insurance costs, up from 15%. Governor Romney also deserves praise for proposing to revolutionize the Massachusetts state pension system by moving it from a defined benefit system to a defined contribution system.”

“In May of 2004, Mitt Romney proposed cutting the state’s income tax rate from 5.3% to 5.0%—a measure Massachusetts voters had approved in a 2000 referendum, but was blocked by the State Legislature in 2002. The proposed tax cut would have provided $675 million in relief over a year and a half. When the Massachusetts Legislature refused to budge, Romney proposed the same tax cut in 2005 and again in 2006 with no success. Romney was more successful when he took on the State Legislature for imposing a retroactive tax on capital gains earnings. After a bloody fight, Romney succeeded in passing a bill preventing the capital gains tax from being applied retroactively, resulting in a rebate of $275 million for capital gains taxes collected in 2002.”

more at link....

http://www.clubforgrowth.org/whitepapers/?subsec=137&id=905


27 posted on 10/15/2012 4:47:33 PM PDT by Tamzee (The U.S. re-electing Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and ramming the iceberg again.)
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To: discostu

On RKBA:

Obama:

In 1996, signed issues statement supporting banning all handguns

In 2000, co-sponsored a bill to restrict buying handguns to 1 per month.

In 2004, voted against a bill protecting a homeowner if they had to use an illegal gun to defend against a home invasion

In 2005, voted against a bill protecting gun manufactures and dealers from civil liability for guns later used in crimes.

In 2008, supported the D.C. handgun ban argued in Heller vs. D.C.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm

Romney:

Endorsed by the NRA. Also backed by GOAL, the Gun Owners Action League in Massachusetts who states:

“During the Romney Administration, no anti-Second Amendment or anti-sportsmen legislation made its way to the Governor’s desk. Governor Romney did sign five pro-Second Amendment/pro-sportsmen bills into law. His administration also worked with Gun Owners’ Action League and the Democratic leadership of the Massachusetts House and Senate to remove any anti-Second Amendment language from the Gang Violence bill passed in 2006. A summary of this legislation follows.”

(The “assault weapons ban” that Romney signed as Governor was actually BACKED by the gun lobby there because it LOOSENED the existing restrictions.)

http://www.goal.org/newspages/romney.html


28 posted on 10/15/2012 4:49:29 PM PDT by Tamzee (The U.S. re-electing Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and ramming the iceberg again.)
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To: discostu

You called Romney a socialist. A socialist would never have acted as Romney did on the following:

vetoed in-state tuition for immigrants -http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/23/romney-had-mixed-record-on-immigration-in-mass/

arranged federal agreement for Mass State Police to arrest and seek deportation of suspected illegal aliens - http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/07/23/romney-had-mixed-record-on-immigration-in-mass/

vetoed immigrants from receiving state assistance for healthcare - http://www.southcoasttoday.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060413/NEWS/304139962&cid=sitesearch

filed legislation to reinstate capital punishment - http://www.conservapedia.com/Mitt_Romney

tried twice to pass tort-reform in 2003 and 2006 - http://www.clubforgrowth.org/whitepapers/?subsec=137&id=905

vetoed union card-check bill that would allow union organizing without secret ballot - http://www.clubforgrowth.org/whitepapers/?subsec=137&id=905


29 posted on 10/15/2012 4:52:21 PM PDT by Tamzee (The U.S. re-electing Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and ramming the iceberg again.)
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To: Tamzee

He is a Socialist. Vetoes by a MA “Republican” Governor are worthless.


30 posted on 10/15/2012 5:11:29 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

No, dear, he is not. And some of the vetoes held if you bothered to read the other posts I offered, or actually clicked any of the links to do some intelligent research.

But you aren’t ACTUALLY interested in intelligent research, are you.... You have a completely different agenda from what I’ve seen.


31 posted on 10/15/2012 5:18:59 PM PDT by Tamzee (The U.S. re-electing Obama would be like the Titanic backing up and ramming the iceberg again.)
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To: Tamzee; EternalVigilance; BlackElk

Listen, honeybunch, I’ve known Willard for 18 years. I’m quite familiar with him personally, his record in office and the agenda he has pursued, and I’ve spent 6 solid years on a nearly daily basis enlightening (warning) folks about him in thousands of postings. He’s a Socialist. You want to pimp for him, that’s fine, but don’t try to blow sunshine up our butts. You want to make the claim he’s better than Zero, be my guest. But this “race” is still a Communist vs. a Socialist. A Democrat run-off, to put it bluntly.


32 posted on 10/15/2012 5:36:22 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: GraceG
Libertarians need to stop spoiling in the generals and start working more in the primaries to get libertairan minded Dems and Repubs on the tickets..

Yes, precisely my point.

33 posted on 10/15/2012 6:03:40 PM PDT by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: Arthurio

I run in Libertarian circles and I am generally sympathetic to many of their positions, mostly economic and domestic. Libertarians add life and fresh ideas to intellectual debates and primary elections. But in general elections, Libertarians serve only to elect Democrats. In November, Libertarians are spoilers.


34 posted on 10/15/2012 6:08:41 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: Always A Marine

In national elections libertarians usually get .75-1.25 percent.

How many dems lost because of that vote?


35 posted on 10/15/2012 6:15:17 PM PDT by morphing libertarian
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To: morphing libertarian; Sparticus
In national elections libertarians usually get .75-1.25 percent. How many dems lost because of that vote?

I think you meant to ask how many Republicans lost because of the Libertarian vote. Several down-ballot races - including Slade Gorton's razor-thin loss to Maria Cantwell in Washington back in 2000.

36 posted on 10/15/2012 6:26:49 PM PDT by Always A Marine
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To: Always A Marine

Onei


37 posted on 10/15/2012 7:03:29 PM PDT by morphing libertarian
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To: discostu

No discostu, I’m not name calling. I am labeling. Your story sounds very nice. But in this election it is just nuts.

Sorry if I hurt your tender feelings.

Obama with a second term with no worries about the next election will do so much damage with his ‘executive orders’ that he MUST BE STOPPED.

Vote for the 3rd party if you will. Just know that you, discostu are an idiot.

Sorry about the name calling. Not.


38 posted on 10/15/2012 7:13:56 PM PDT by 429CJ (.)
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To: discostu

No discostu, I’m not name calling. I am labeling. Your story sounds very nice. But in this election it is just nuts.

Sorry if I hurt your tender feelings.

Obama with a second term with no worries about the next election will do so much damage with his ‘executive orders’ that he MUST BE STOPPED.

Vote for the 3rd party if you will. Just know that you, discostu are an idiot.

Sorry about the name calling. Not.


39 posted on 10/15/2012 7:13:59 PM PDT by 429CJ (.)
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To: discostu

No discostu, I’m not name calling. I am labeling. Your story sounds very nice. But in this election it is just nuts.

Sorry if I hurt your tender feelings.

Obama with a second term with no worries about the next election will do so much damage with his ‘executive orders’ that he MUST BE STOPPED.

Vote for the 3rd party if you will. Just know that you, discostu are an idiot.

Sorry about the name calling. Not.


40 posted on 10/15/2012 7:14:07 PM PDT by 429CJ (.)
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To: fieldmarshaldj

No fieldmarshaldj, I just call it like it is.

If you don’t vote in such a manner as to remove
BO from office you are an idiot. Simple as that.


41 posted on 10/15/2012 7:17:07 PM PDT by 429CJ (.)
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To: 429CJ

And I, 429CJ, need to remember that when you hit ‘post’ it takes a minute or two to actually ‘post’.

:-)


42 posted on 10/15/2012 7:20:06 PM PDT by 429CJ (.)
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To: discostu

This is exactly why I left the Liberterian Party. The Party always had the excuse “we pull as many voters from Democrats as Republicans”, but it was always a lie.

I got tired of enabling big government leftists by keeping much better candidates from winning.

The real issue, though, is getting new media. The issue is not so much the parties as the MSM.


43 posted on 10/15/2012 7:46:31 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: Arthurio

Why would libertarians vote for a libertarian for President, someone who cannot win, and potentially hand Obama a second term, the anathema to all their beliefs?


44 posted on 10/15/2012 7:48:47 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: Lee N. Field

Yes, It was L.Neil’s policy. It sounded good. It did not work. The big problem with Liberterians is that they thought the problem was political. It was not. It was and is the MSM.


45 posted on 10/15/2012 7:50:49 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: tbw2

Because, they are either children or idiots.

One or the other.


46 posted on 10/15/2012 7:52:28 PM PDT by 429CJ (.)
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To: Arthurio

Libertarians rose to defeat John Thune in SD in 2002, and he rebounded in 2004. How does Johnson continue to serve all these years considering his health?


47 posted on 10/15/2012 8:02:12 PM PDT by Theodore R. (Annoy the Establishment! Vote for Akin!)
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To: Theodore R.

libertarians tend to be rather cluless about tactics to win the war. instead they claim losing a battle as a victory.


48 posted on 10/15/2012 8:08:18 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: Tzar

this is a politico article, it is by design intended to screw with the minds of the weak and give sufferage to fools.

This should be directed in the DUmmy forum and over at the comment section of huff post. It should be intended to have the weak minds of the left to abandon obama for the same useful idiot principles.


49 posted on 10/15/2012 8:10:49 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: 429CJ
"No fieldmarshaldj, I just call it like it is."

As do I.

50 posted on 10/15/2012 8:58:45 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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