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Obama wins the second debate. Too bad itís not the one that mattered
Yahoo! News ^ | October 17, 2012 | by Jeff Greenfield

Posted on 10/17/2012 6:12:26 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer

When the evening began, one observation dominated the conversation: “If President Barack Obama has another debate like the last one, the election’s over.”

When the evening ended, I was struck by a different thought: If Obama had performed this way at the first debate, the election would have been over.

In every debate, whatever the format, whatever the questions, there is one and only one way to identify the winner: Who commands the room? Who drives the narrative? Who is in charge? More often than not on Tuesday night, I think, Obama had the better of it.

Had the Obama of this debate showed up two weeks ago, he might well have ended Romney’s effort to present himself as a credible alternative to the president.

That opportunity vanished that night. While it’s clear that Obama’s performance will revive the enthusiasm of his supporters, it seems unlikely that it will cause those impressed by Romney to reconsider. Like they say in show business, timing is everything.

(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2012debates; debate; election2012

1 posted on 10/17/2012 6:12:34 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Obama did not win the debate.


2 posted on 10/17/2012 6:13:35 AM PDT by Mechanicos (When did we amend the Constitution for a 2nd Federal Prohibition?)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

oh? What kind of man keeps needing women to save his junk? Hillary, Candy and Steffie Stephanopolous, etc keep riding in to rescue The First Damsel In Distress. It’d be hilarious if it wasn’t so pathetic.


3 posted on 10/17/2012 6:17:07 AM PDT by InvisibleChurch (the mature Christian is almost impossible to offend)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Really? No Really? Did any MSM shill say Mittens won the first debate?
because if they did I was sleeping and it was muttered under biased breath.
4 posted on 10/17/2012 6:17:55 AM PDT by MaxMax
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To: Mechanicos
They call it a win because he didn't do as bad as he did in the last one. I can see where moonbats could declare victory by their way of thinking.
5 posted on 10/17/2012 6:20:04 AM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult (Liberals make unrealistic demands on reality and reality doesn't oblige them.)
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To: Mechanicos

If this was in a vacuum but Im getting the vibe people have wole up..that they been lied to and played by Obama and the press..


6 posted on 10/17/2012 6:22:20 AM PDT by tophat9000 (American is Barack Oaken)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Greenfield’s logic is tortured. Says O won because he depicted Romney as out of touch rich guy who doesn’t care about the middle class. In fact, Romney pummelled Obama on the economy and Obama offered nothing in response. Even a CBS poll showed Romney won huge on the economy. There’s no substance to the notion that Obama won. Moreover, O’s lies on Libya and drilling are going to catch up to him and those will become the story.


7 posted on 10/17/2012 6:25:53 AM PDT by vekzen
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Obama won nothing.

These are the same people who also said that Joe Biden won.


8 posted on 10/17/2012 6:26:21 AM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Obama was his usual rude, arrogant self. You just can't say he did anything.

We have a HUGE debt and millions out of work. Get people back to work!! That's the only way you fill the coffers.

9 posted on 10/17/2012 6:27:55 AM PDT by Sacajaweau (r)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Obama is a loser and only wins when other losers believed his jive song and dance routine.

He still plays his magic piccolo drawing away the figurative rats from the city, but reality comes to play here...

What happened to the rats?


10 posted on 10/17/2012 6:28:10 AM PDT by Eye of Unk (OPSEC)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Obama didn't win anything. He answered bleats from certain sheep in the audience the way we would expect.

On substance he failed.

11 posted on 10/17/2012 6:31:34 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

The leftist pundits point to Obama being more assertive than in the previous debate, so, they call him the winner just for the assertiveness.

But, let me get this straight. Obama shows up, being more “assertive” than in the last debate, and some people call him a winner, or at least tied in the debate? Give me a break!

So, winning to many people constitutes being assertive in defending policies that have the American economy in decline, and 23 million people out of work or looking for work or underemployed? Winning is about assertively lying about his energy policies, which have to a large extent, caused energy prices to skyrocket? Winning is about assertively lying to the American people about what happened in Libya, where our 4 Americans got killed, including our ambassador? How can assertiveness be able to undo the facts that, Obama has had 4 years of more than 1 trillion dollars in deficit spending? How can assertiveness defend the fact that, Obama has added more than 6 trillion dollars to the national debt? How can assertiveness undo the fact that, 50% of college graduates can’t find jobs once they graduate?

If assertiveness is what counts, and somebody could win points by simply being assertive, then, Ahmadinejad is a winner every time he goes to the UN to defend his policy of trying to erase Israel from the face of the world.

Nobody should ever be declared a winner, or be considered even close to being tied, when the last four years have been disastrous for the country, with domestic and foreign policy.

If the facts are completely different from the “assertive” presentation which the present brought to the debate, then, he is automatically the loser. Facts and the truth matter many times more than style.


12 posted on 10/17/2012 6:36:19 AM PDT by adorno
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
Was there a different debate last night from the one I watched?

Maybe Obama just showing up, in a liberals mind, is the same as winning.

I found him to be surly, evasive and outright lying.

Where Obamas voice got higher pitched when he got argumentative, Mitts was pretty even keeled.

Zero is the incumbent and should have that to boost him. Instead, people are looking for reasons to jump ship. Mitt, even in a heated debate, looks poised. Obama was "LOOKING" angry. (read "ready to throw a temper tantrum").

Though granted, Obama performed better than HIS last performance, I can't see how ANYBODY can honestly say that one PERFORMED better than the other, to win the debate.

As far as substance, Mitt wiped the floor with him. And with the near the end exchange about Libya, I think it sets next weeks foreign policy debate up for Mitt. I don't think Mitt could quite believe it when hammering Zero on it. And it brings out into the open, post debate, for everyone to check what Zero REALLY said.

These debates ARE NOT going to change anyone who has already decided. These are for the undecided. And I think last night eased many peoples minds for Mitt, and I also think it exposed Obama.

Last night Mitt HAMMERED Obamas record. Something Obama couldn't realistically defend (except to HIS supporters), and OPENLY set up Obama for next weeks debate.

Barring a John McCain performance, these debates are wrapped up.

13 posted on 10/17/2012 6:36:30 AM PDT by mountn man (Happiness is not a destination, its a way of life.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Hussein didn’t win. Mitt didn’t win. America lost.


14 posted on 10/17/2012 6:39:27 AM PDT by bgill (Evil doers are in every corner of our government. Have we passed the time of no return?)
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To: Mechanicos

I view it more as a presentation from each and after weighing the lies and obfuscations and misdirections from the O, the only one with a factual presentation was Romney.


15 posted on 10/17/2012 6:40:50 AM PDT by Dudoight
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Obama did not win this debate. Romney was about to deliver a TKO when he was wrongly held up by the ref over Libya.

Telling, though, that even the Obama cheerleaders at Yahoo! realize deep down that Obama’s running on empty now.


16 posted on 10/17/2012 6:43:59 AM PDT by Qbert ("The best defense against usurpatory government is an assertive citizenry" - William F. Buckley, Jr.)
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To: InvisibleChurch

What about 0bama’s Islamic Religion?


17 posted on 10/17/2012 6:44:08 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Hillarys Gate Cult
They call it a win because he didn't do as bad as he did in the last one. I can see where moonbats could declare victory by their way of thinking.

Reminds me of a cartoon I saw of Sodamn Insane after the first Gulf War. Saddam was in a tank, driving in reverse, declaring he surrendered. He won.

The One spoke, therefore he won.

18 posted on 10/17/2012 6:45:36 AM PDT by mountn man (Happiness is not a destination, its a way of life.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

For Obamabots, in-your-face rhetoric, unchallenged obfuscation and bald-face-lying counts more for points than an honest appraisal of the facts of historic record.


19 posted on 10/17/2012 6:47:06 AM PDT by dps.inspect (rage against the Obama machine...)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

How do these people measure winning?

Two undecided voter panels, one on FOX and one on MSNBC, favored Romney after THIS debate. Obama, and his side kick Crowley, are getting smeared for their lies this morning in even the liberal MSM.

And who will ever forget Romney getting in Bammy’s face to press him on cuts to oil permits and on his own Chinese investments. That will be what goes down in history.


20 posted on 10/17/2012 6:49:41 AM PDT by keats5 (Not all of us are hypnotized.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

And when Romney whens the election, Yahoo’s headline will read “Obama Wins Election”


21 posted on 10/17/2012 7:02:15 AM PDT by al_c (http://www.blowoutcongress.com)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

One thing I wish Mittens would have done was call Obama out on his “I ended the Iraq War” crap! Why is he allowed to get by with this lie so many times?! That war was ending before he got voted in. Bush signed the order to get our troops out of there by the end of 2011. Yet Bambi takes credit for it all.


22 posted on 10/17/2012 7:06:13 AM PDT by al_c (http://www.blowoutcongress.com)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Last night...post debate forum...CNN. Poll of 33 Republicans, 33 Democrats shows 46% Obama and 39% Romney.

However...on sub-questions in the poll, e.g. Who would be better to run economy? Who would be better on tax policy?
Who would be better on Health Care? Romney won all.

These results led Anderson Cooper and John King, of all people, to conclude that Romney won the debate and would go on to win the election.

Did anyone else see this or was I dreaming???

p.s. Candy was there too admitting her mistake. Does it get any better than this my Conservative friends?


23 posted on 10/17/2012 7:22:54 AM PDT by firefox ((Vote Democrat...Its Easier Than Thinking!))
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To: bgill

I was disheartened in the same way as you, maybe. Although Mitt is doing what technically he should do - strip away “undecideds” and so forth, the subtext to the debate is that Government is twice as important a factor in our affairs now: school grants, gun bans, quotas, bailouts, handouts, gotchas, giveyas, dubyas... the questions made me ill, the form and substance sickened me. I sat there thinking we’ll never do better than this, we don’t have it in us to accept limited Government, we are everything we feared we were and worse.

I should have avoided watching the damn debate, and maybe I would have avoided feeling we are deep in a train tunnel hurtling along without a driver and the lights just went out.

Mitt wasn’t the problem. We are.


24 posted on 10/17/2012 7:23:20 AM PDT by februus
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To: vekzen

“Says O won because he depicted Romney as out of touch rich guy who doesn’t care about the middle class.”

You have hit on a most significant fact about the debate: Obama’s “community organizer media” have nothing but this to spin as his big triumph.

Even they know that Obama could not and did not successfully defend his dismal record or his non-existent “plan”. With nothing to justify a second term, he can only resort to calling his opponent a successful businessman. The tank is empty.


25 posted on 10/17/2012 7:24:16 AM PDT by Chewbarkah
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Would appreciate any and all honest impressions on the debate. I tried to watch, but got as far as the first time Obama opened his mouth before I shut it off. I simply can’t stand to listen to the son of a bitch anymore.


26 posted on 10/17/2012 7:25:52 AM PDT by Marathoner (If the bastard were to win reelection, let America burn. IDGAF anymore.)
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To: InvisibleChurch

doesn’t matter if he wins a second term.


27 posted on 10/17/2012 7:26:12 AM PDT by Cronos (**Marriage is about commitment, cohabitation is about convenience.**)
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To: februus
Mitt wasn’t the problem. We are.

Says it all for a nation that worships "Honey Boo Boo."

28 posted on 10/17/2012 7:27:09 AM PDT by dfwgator (World Series bound and picking up steam, GO GET 'EM,TIGERS!)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

No, Obama did not win the debate, not even with Crowley’s blatant cheating.


29 posted on 10/17/2012 7:30:43 AM PDT by Jane Austen (Boycott the Philadelphia Eagles!)
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To: Chewbarkah

The MSNBC undecided focus group, who almost all voted for Obama in 2008, thought that Obama won on points, but decided that they are voting for Romney after listening to the debate.

In other words, Obama technically won the debate, but the voters didn’t believe his lies. They said that Romney sounded like he had a plan, but Obama didn’t. It was pretty much the same thing that the Luntz group said.


30 posted on 10/17/2012 7:30:43 AM PDT by Eva (Obama and Hillary lied, Americans diedI)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Remember when people speculated during the campaign how Romney would get eaten alive during the debates...?
well,0bama hasn’t taken a nibble out of him.

If anything he has made an ass of himself, revealed himself to be a untrust worthy lying sack-0-crap.
Not to mention Crowley further drove home the point that most of the media are in the bag for 0bama hacks.

What is endlessly mind boggling is a 0bama type is in this race at all..???
Which is a indication how stupid/lame-0 1/3-1/2? Americans are.


31 posted on 10/17/2012 7:39:30 AM PDT by Leep (Forward! to serfdom)
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To: Mechanicos

I thought stylistically it was a tie, but big”O” told lies
throughout the hour and a half.


32 posted on 10/17/2012 7:51:33 AM PDT by upcountryhorseman (An old fashioned conservative)
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To: keats5

Third “undecided voter” panel favors Romney after last night’s debate.

http://www.thehopeforamerica.com/play.php?id=13298


33 posted on 10/17/2012 8:00:03 AM PDT by keats5 (Not all of us are hypnotized.)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer

Petulance is the sister of Narcissism.

Obama showed his petulance more than once last night.

He was very angry when the Libyan security question was asked. Did Crowley promise him that it would not come up???


34 posted on 10/17/2012 9:29:36 AM PDT by ridesthemiles
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To: Eva

The debate live audience and these various focus groups make it seem that 80%+ of “undecideds” were 2008 Obama voters. If that is the case for the undecideds in the whole electorate, Obama is toast.

For someone to vote Obama in 2008 but be undecided now likely means they know Obama was a mistake, but are holding out for something to justify their error. Every time Obama fails to provide a reason to believe, part of this group will decide to stay home or vote for Romney.


35 posted on 10/17/2012 10:44:13 AM PDT by Chewbarkah
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