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The federal Titanic is sinking ( Oklahoma )
Oklahoma Gazette ^ | October 17th, 2012 | State Rep. T.W. Shannon

Posted on 10/18/2012 9:13:21 AM PDT by george76

Because of an accounting gimmick where governments pretend future liabilities don’t exist and, therefore, don’t account for them, most Americans don’t know how big the problem really is. The amount typically reported, nearly $16 trillion, is actually only the surface of our debt...

America’s total debt — when accounting for unfunded future liabilities in Medicaid, Medicare and Social Security and state and local bond debt — exceeds $130 trillion.

Take a moment for that to sink in: $130 trillion.

Today, more than 40 percent of our annual state budget comes from an obviously broke federal government, yet some opinion leaders in Oklahoma want the band to play on. Indeed, a fatalistic worldview is common among elites. “Nothing to see here, folks; full steam ahead with the status quo and everything will be fine,” they say, much like the experts who thought the Titanic was unsinkable. After all, “the federal checkbook has never shut down.”

...

So what happens when that funding is cut off? Anyone who looks at the budgets can see that happening. Anyone who says otherwise is being intellectually disingenuous...

Real leadership isn’t striking up the band while the ship is sinking; real leadership is being aware of oncoming obstacles, taking a proactive approach to confront them...

(Excerpt) Read more at okgazette.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Oklahoma
KEYWORDS: medicaid; medicare; socialsecurity; unfundedliabilities

1 posted on 10/18/2012 9:13:25 AM PDT by george76
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To: george76

The average American wouldn’t understand it. The politicians know this. Why do you think we got to this point?


2 posted on 10/18/2012 9:18:56 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: george76

These socialists : Obama ,democrats and the media have created this mess. They’ve put Americans in a huge hole.

Wonder why the media never reports this?


3 posted on 10/18/2012 9:20:12 AM PDT by rurgan (Sunset all laws at 4 years.China is destroying U.S. ability to manufacture,makes everything)
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To: george76

bfl


4 posted on 10/18/2012 9:21:21 AM PDT by CommieCutter
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To: george76

Thanks George....”America’s total debt — — exceeds $130 trillion..... 40 percent of our annual state budget comes from an obviously broke federal government, “
We are broke and those we owe money to are broke...GOD help us-———


5 posted on 10/18/2012 9:22:04 AM PDT by djone ( ...... Only by pride cometh contention:........)
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To: george76

bfl


6 posted on 10/18/2012 9:22:13 AM PDT by CommieCutter
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To: george76
"$130 trillion. "

Dude, that's over a tenth of a KaBillion!

7 posted on 10/18/2012 9:26:53 AM PDT by Paladin2
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To: george76

Yeah, but Joe Biden says he wants us all to be able to look our children in the eye and say, “Honey, it’s all going to be alright.”

Son of a bitch.


8 posted on 10/18/2012 9:28:20 AM PDT by Southside_Chicago_Republican (If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.)
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To: djone
It's a present value analysis of all real or potential obligations ~ somebody assumes an interest rate and away you go.

Currently the interest rate is so close to 0% the $130 trillion estimate is probably way out of line.

We need to see the interest rate and other assumptions before we can render judgment.

As bad as this looks, imagine if we continue to have deflation at current rates and the interest rate is actually something like -3%. Then, acquiring more obligations would be valuable because way down the line they'd be paying the government for the privilege of being on welfare!

Bwahahahahahha

9 posted on 10/18/2012 9:28:47 AM PDT by muawiyah
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To: stephenjohnbanker
"The average American wouldn’t understand it. The politicians know this. Why do you think we got to this point?"

The politicians also know that we'll never pay this.

10 posted on 10/18/2012 9:33:31 AM PDT by blam
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To: blam

” The politicians also know that we’ll never pay this. “

Of course they know it. They are scum, but not ignorant scum : )


11 posted on 10/18/2012 9:48:23 AM PDT by stephenjohnbanker (God, family, country, mom, apple pie, the girl next door and a Ford F250 to pull my boat.)
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To: george76

The Dems know what the implications are, and they are happy about it. They cant destroy the Republic and install a socialist dictatorship until the system collapses. They will spend as much as they can to enjoy life while this system lasts and to be in charge when it’s gone.


12 posted on 10/18/2012 9:57:38 AM PDT by Defiant (If there are infinite parallel universes, why Lord, am I living in the one with Obama as President?)
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To: george76
Well, since you included state and local income, you need to compare that to the combined governmental revenues of $5 trillion a year.

$130T/$16T GNP = 8.1 Years. It's not great, but it's not "immediate pending dooom" either.

It's like having a mortgage 8 times your salary. Certainly a bigger mortgage than I would want.

On the other hand, our economy is currently seriously impaired. 25% of our people aren't working. Fix that, GNP goes up and the debt burden isn't as onerous.

13 posted on 10/18/2012 10:04:31 AM PDT by DannyTN
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To: blam

And why not?! There’s more than a few on here alone that believe they’re entitled to what they ‘paid in’, never caring the taxes they paid was never guaranteed.

I’m constantly amazed that those ‘older and wiser’ believe(d) anything coming from a politicians mouth or a flowery worded titled bill out of Congress.


14 posted on 10/18/2012 10:04:50 AM PDT by i_robot73
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To: george76
What's interesting is State Rep. T.W. Shannon is a black American man.

A good man, I might add. A good Oklahoman!!

15 posted on 10/18/2012 10:12:10 AM PDT by Osage Orange ( Liberalism, ideas so good they have to be mandatory.)
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To: george76
"Today, more than 40 percent of our annual state budget comes from an obviously broke federal government, yet some opinion leaders in Oklahoma want the band to play on."

Same situation in our State, george76, and it appears that all political factions here are pushing to continue and even further inflate the debt regime. Imagine tens of millions going from federal funding into the pockets of a very few in the middle of nowhere (building projects and other pork).

If anyone else out there in the West is also really conservative, see what's going on. And get yourself ready in realistic ways (not as seen on TV).


16 posted on 10/18/2012 11:17:52 AM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in a thunderous avalanche of rottenness smelled around the earth.)
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To: DannyTN
It's like having a mortgage 8 times your salary.

No, it's not.

A mortgage is a liability. It's counterbalanced by an asset, the house. Normally, you have some equity in the house as well.

There is no offsetting asset for these obligations of the Federal and state governments.

17 posted on 10/18/2012 11:46:01 AM PDT by rmh47 (Go Kats! - Got eight? [NRA Life Member])
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To: rmh47
"There is no offsetting asset for these obligations of the Federal and state governments."

There is some. There are roads and bridges, government buildings, schools, federal lands, military assets, etc.

18 posted on 10/18/2012 12:04:12 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: rurgan
These socialists : Obama ,democrats and the media have created this mess.

In the decades leading up to obama's election, the Republicans were also guilty. To a degree, everyone who has ever gone to congress has sold us out, either actively voting for spending which has taken us to the edge of oblivion, or by not screaming to high heaven to get it stopped.

If he or she had to, he or she should have gone so far as to immolated him- or herself in the well of the senate to draw attention to the problem, hyperbolically speaking, of course.

19 posted on 10/18/2012 12:30:36 PM PDT by RobinOfKingston (The instinct toward liberalism is located in the part of the brain called the rectal lobe.)
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To: familyop

Colorado owes over $80 Billion and growing?


20 posted on 10/18/2012 1:16:30 PM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: RobinOfKingston
The 6 trillion $ in added Obama debt and ITS refusal to privatize medicare ( as Republican Romney proposed) will add 132 trillion to your debt and then your dollars will become worthless , enjoy democrat. You will be paying $20 per gallon in gasoline because your democrat obama is printing trillions of $ out of thin air.

now you made an accusation you tell me what programs republicans made and how many trillions of that 132 they created. now name and detail these programs, quantifying them now. funny I remember Newt's congress balancing the budget and the Republicans never had a super majority so they cannot be blamed as that is needed as the democrat had a super majority to turn 1/5 of the economy over to the government (obamacare).

21 posted on 10/18/2012 2:04:57 PM PDT by rurgan (Sunset all laws at 4 years.China is destroying U.S. ability to manufacture,makes everything)
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To: rurgan
These socialists : Obama ,democrats and the media have created this mess.

In the decades leading up to obama's election, the Republicans were also guilty. To a degree, everyone who has ever gone to congress has sold us out, either actively voting for spending which has taken us to the edge of oblivion, or by not screaming to high heaven to get it stopped.

If he or she had to, he or she should have gone so far as to immolated him- or herself in the well of the senate to draw attention to the problem, hyperbolically speaking, of course.

22 posted on 10/18/2012 2:30:51 PM PDT by RobinOfKingston (The instinct toward liberalism is located in the part of the brain called the rectal lobe.)
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To: george76

The Death Panels will fix a LOT of this. Cut 10 yrs off the life expectancy and the Medicare and SS numbers improve dramatically.

It’s the unspoken “fix” no politician will dare discuss.


23 posted on 10/18/2012 2:34:57 PM PDT by nascarnation (Defeat Baraq 2012. Deport Baraq 2013)
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To: Osage Orange
Surely you jest! Everyone knows what racists we Oklahomans are. s/

P.S. And he's very nice looking too.

24 posted on 10/18/2012 2:56:58 PM PDT by pepperdog ( I still get a thrill up my leg when spell check doesn't recognize the name/word Obama!)
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To: george76
"Colorado owes over $80 Billion and growing?"

I don't know what you're talking about there, but much of the budget here comes from federal pork.


25 posted on 10/18/2012 3:39:45 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in a thunderous avalanche of rottenness smelled around the earth.)
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To: pepperdog
You won't find...the MSM pointing this out.

It's not part of their template.

My disgust grows daily..for the MSM.

In fact...I think the MSM is THE most dangerous entity to the U.S.A. and it's citizens.

26 posted on 10/18/2012 4:14:43 PM PDT by Osage Orange ( Liberalism, ideas so good they have to be mandatory.)
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To: DannyTN
There is some. There are roads and bridges, government buildings, schools, federal lands, military assets, etc.

You can certainly make that argument about the 16.2 trillion we already owe as acknowledged debt. I don't think you can make that argument about the (alleged) 130 trillion we will need to pay going forward for Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, pensions for government workers, etc., and for which we have made no provision whatsoever, and for which we will have nothing to show after we pay it (assuming we can pay it, which we can't).

27 posted on 10/18/2012 6:56:19 PM PDT by rmh47 (Go Kats! - Got eight? [NRA Life Member])
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To: rmh47

I think you can. The money in the trust funds was loaned to the Federal government which spent it on a variety of stuff. It’s impossible to separate what was wasted, and what was invested in infrastructure.

Either way, it’s not a debt that’s impossible to pay down. But the key is getting our economy going full blast again, and to do that we need to raise import tariffs and put our own people back to work.

Obama’s claim that he only wants high paying jobs is stupid when 25% are unemployed. Plus the high paying jobs tend to follow the low paying jobs. When we all have high paying jobs, we can re-outsource the low paying ones.


28 posted on 10/18/2012 7:49:30 PM PDT by DannyTN
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To: george76

The sad thing is, once the printing presses stop, we are all going to be in deep trouble.

Our economy has been a game of lets pretend for decades.


29 posted on 10/19/2012 10:08:08 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: rurgan

It wasn’t just the democrats. W spent like a drunken sailor. I never understood why liberals hated him so much. He spent more than Clinton. And before you defend him by saying he had a war to fight, he could have cut in other areas. He had a republican congress.

So, they’re all guilty.


30 posted on 10/19/2012 3:22:24 PM PDT by Terry Mross
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To: Terry Mross
Republicans never had a super majority in congress so how can you blame them.

Democrats created medicare and social security : the unfunded liabilities for these 2 government programs is 132 trillion $ .Yes I know you and liberals and the media say “Bush's fault” when democrats created these 2 programs and now Romney wants to privatize medicare.

Ball in your court now . you detail how much each program That Republicans created cost. I know I know medicare part d you will scream but that is ALL you have that has any spending at all and it is a small % of medicare. Yeah Bush's fault. Bush didn't have anything to do with medicare or ssi, welfare , medicaid and thousands of other programs created by democrats and you know full well Bush couldn't wave his hand and stop funding for medicare etc.

31 posted on 10/23/2012 12:29:04 PM PDT by rurgan (Sunset all laws at 4 years.China is destroying U.S. ability to manufacture,makes everything)
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To: rurgan

Say whaaaaaat? I think you posted to the wrong person.


32 posted on 10/23/2012 1:50:17 PM PDT by Terry Mross
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To: Terry Mross

No, you know what you said(scroll) up and back it up . You parroted the liberal media lie that “Bush and Republicans spent like drunken sailors” so detail the NEW government programs Republicans created and the percentage of budget etc.

Republicans never had a super majority in congress so how can you blame them.

Democrats created medicare and social security : the unfunded liabilities for these 2 government programs is 132 trillion $ .Yes I know you and liberals and the media say “Bush’s fault” when democrats created these 2 programs and now Romney wants to privatize medicare.

Ball in your court now . you detail how much each program That Republicans created cost. I know I know medicare part d you will scream but that is ALL you have that has any spending at all and it is a small % of medicare. Yeah Bush’s fault. Bush didn’t have anything to do with medicare or ssi, welfare , medicaid and thousands of other programs created by democrats and you know full well Bush couldn’t wave his hand and stop funding for medicare etc.


33 posted on 10/23/2012 1:58:48 PM PDT by rurgan (Sunset all laws at 4 years.China is destroying U.S. ability to manufacture,makes everything)
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To: rurgan

I’ll stand by the statement “Bush spent like a drunken sailor.” It’s a fact. He let the democrats have anything they wanted. No republican super majority? Neither did the democrats. So, how ‘bout a veto every now and then George? Maybe he couldn’t spell the word.


34 posted on 10/23/2012 3:41:49 PM PDT by Terry Mross
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To: Terry Mross

name the programs and % of budget that Bush or Republicans created.Medicare? NO social security ? NO those are democrat created programs and you know full well Bush had NO POWER at all to defund those programs. Are you blaming Bush for those and other democrat programs?You think Bush can just come into power in defund thousands of pages of laws, and hundreds of thousands of pages of government regulations that democrats created in 100 years? Yes you buy the liberal media spin they created to take away the big government and big spending advantage Republicans had in the public eye. Yes you and many others buy that and that’s why the media got Obama and a super majority democrat congress elected and so again we have 13,000 new pages of government regulations from Obamacare as a result imposed on us of Which NOT A SINGLE REPUBLICAN voted for Obamacare. tell what I say that is not true.


35 posted on 10/23/2012 3:56:51 PM PDT by rurgan (Sunset all laws at 4 years.China is destroying U.S. ability to manufacture,makes everything)
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To: Terry Mross

name the programs and % of budget that Bush or Republicans created.Medicare? NO social security ? NO those are democrat created programs and you know full well Bush had NO POWER at all to defund those programs. Are you blaming Bush for those and other democrat programs?You think Bush can just come into power wave his hand and repeal or defund thousands of pages of laws(that mandate spending like for social security), and repeal hundreds of thousands of pages of government regulations that democrats created in 100 years? Yes you buy the liberal media spin they created to take away the big government and big spending advantage Republicans had in the public eye. Yes you and many others buy that and that’s why the media got Obama and a super majority democrat congress elected and so again we have 13,000 new pages of government regulations from Obamacare as a result imposed on us of Which NOT A SINGLE REPUBLICAN voted for Obamacare. tell what I say that is not true.


36 posted on 10/23/2012 4:01:57 PM PDT by rurgan (Sunset all laws at 4 years.China is destroying U.S. ability to manufacture,makes everything)
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