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Criminals and the Guns They Carry
Buckeye Firerams Association ^ | 18 October, 2012 | Greg Ellifritz

Posted on 10/19/2012 12:39:21 PM PDT by marktwain

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To: marktwain
“24 not loaded”

To quote Jeff Cooper "All guns are always loaded all the time" (see Rule 1 of Cooper's Laws for Gun Safety).

Interesting stats, but NOTHING can be stated definitively about the gun YOUR criminal will be carrying when he assaults YOU. If he has a weapon, it must be assumed to be LOADED and that he is ready and willing to USE it.

Stop the threat. Then, add his stats to the above report.

21 posted on 10/19/2012 2:54:43 PM PDT by nonsporting
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To: marktwain

bump


22 posted on 10/19/2012 2:55:37 PM PDT by dangerdoc (see post #6)
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To: marktwain; Kartographer

This is just slightly off topic, but since it has been discussed here many times about the possibility of SHTF and the inner city thugs flowing out into the surrounding area looking for food/drugs etc. The question arises; Is this the quality of the opponent we might encounter? The ones who are most likely to be violently inclined?

And if so, does this also show us what sort of weaponry might be deployed by them?


23 posted on 10/19/2012 3:47:59 PM PDT by The Working Man
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To: The Working Man

Yes and yes.

But remember, the further away you live from the feral areas the ones who survive to make it to your neck of the woods will be the most ruthless and well armed of the bunch.


24 posted on 10/19/2012 3:58:54 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: Lurker

Very good points!

Let’s just hope that rule 308 takes them out first.


25 posted on 10/19/2012 4:06:09 PM PDT by The Working Man
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To: marktwain
"That tells me that I may not feel comfortable carrying a little pocket gun. I really don’t want to be carrying a small .32 automatic when my attacker is likely to be armed with a full sized Ruger, S&W, or Glock pistol! Carry enough gun!"

Disagree. Most people who carry get tired of carrying daily with a full sized weapon. Heck, if I knew trouble was coming, I'd go around with a semi-automatic rifle in at least .308 - but I don't. In 35 years as an adult, I've had a reason to pull a gun once, and have yet to need to use one.

Right now, I'm looking for a small 380...leaning to the Sig 238. Something small enough to carry EVERY day. If I'm feeling more tense, then I'll ADD a 686+ or rifle.

BTW - a 380 with FMJ ammo will penetrate 20" of ballistic gelatin. Yes, I'd prefer my 44, but my S&W 29 is a bit awkward to carry daily!

26 posted on 10/19/2012 4:11:28 PM PDT by Mr Rogers
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To: Hammerhead

Greg knows what he’s talking about.


27 posted on 10/19/2012 4:16:41 PM PDT by real saxophonist
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To: expat2

When you’re attacked, there’s very little time to rack the slide and chamber a round. This video demonstrates that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rytJweALgqw


28 posted on 10/19/2012 6:53:15 PM PDT by Shreveman
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To: Shreveman
These officers were waiting far too long to unholster their weapons -- IMO they should have the gun out and behind their thigh or back.
What I was talking about was not waiting until after reaching a potentially dangerous situation before getting a round into the chamber. On the contrary, before getting within 25ft I would take out the weapon and chamber a round so the weapon is already drawn and ready to fire.
IOW, leave the chamber empty when say driving in a rural or upscale suburb but chamber a round before getting out in a downscale shopping center, for example.
This is all theoretical for me, a learning exercise -- I am not an LEO.
29 posted on 10/19/2012 8:16:57 PM PDT by expat2
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To: SampleMan
Completely unloaded to me, and the law, is neither a round in the chamber nor a loaded magazine inserted. I am not advocating the latter, that would be dumb.
30 posted on 10/19/2012 8:21:10 PM PDT by expat2
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To: expat2; All
I think it is a bad idea to vary the condition (round in the chamber or not) of your sidearm while carrying it.

The problem is always remembering what condition it is in. Is there a round chambered or not? Are you feeling lucky?

What you want is that the way that you draw the firearm becomes automatic and reliable. If you choose to carry with an empty chamber, then do so all the time and practice always chambering a round automatically when you draw. This is the Israeli method.

If you are going to carry with a round chambered, always do so.

Another consideration is the added safety risk of constantly loading/unloading the handgun. Doing this thousands of times increases the possibility of an accidental discharge.

I carry with a round chambered. I have always done so since the time I was really, really glad that I had the pistol with me, did not have to draw or fire, and then found that I did not have a round in the chamber.

It could have been very “embarrassing” to find that out in the middle of a confrontation.

Learning from your mistakes is good. Learning from the mistakes of others is much better.

31 posted on 10/20/2012 7:56:08 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: expat2
“One in the spout” may be fine and necessary when facing a high probability of encountering a criminal, but, given the normal low probability of that, isn’t it a little too much for everyday use?

No, it is not "a little too much". It is exactly right. Your weapon was DESINGED to be carried loaded. Loaded means a round in the chamber, or a round in all chambers in the case of a revolver. (The only exception is certain single shot revolvers. You're not carrying one for self defense.) If you aren't comfortable with a cocked and locked 1911 or Hi-Power, then carry a DA or DA/SA pistol or carry a DA revolver.

IMO

32 posted on 10/20/2012 8:11:24 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard
Well, the voting is overwhelmingly for a round in the chamber at all times. But personally I think that is only good practice with double-action, unless of course one is in a potentially tight spot.

Who was the athlete who had his gone go off in a bar while in his pocket or holster?

33 posted on 10/20/2012 9:20:21 AM PDT by expat2
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To: real saxophonist

Its useless information. Like anyone is going to care what the stats are if a gun is being pointed at you.


34 posted on 10/20/2012 3:53:30 PM PDT by Hammerhead
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To: expat2
IIRC, the athlete in question had the pistol stuck in his belt (no holster), it fell out (supposedly), and fired on impact with the ground (supposedly).

You can take the thug out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto out of the thug.

Carry a quality pistol in a quality holster, and things like this become vanishingly unlikely.

35 posted on 10/21/2012 5:00:35 AM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Some things bother me about this report.

1. How can he shoot ammo that was loaded in the gun? I realize he says the cases have gone thru the trial phases but what about appeals and destroying evidence? How does the firearm & ammo become the property of the police dept?

2. The author gives exacting percentage answers and then selectively adds phrases like “roughly” before one of three or four percentage numbers. Why aren’t the other numbers approximate too?

3. Guns are used by criminals to achieve their objective which is not always to win a gunfight...I suspect they are used to intimidate the weak, perhaps to gain status, etc, etc.

Overall, I rank it as a pretty silly article.


36 posted on 10/23/2012 9:48:58 AM PDT by Geoffrey
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