Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Reverse statism: A reality check for voters considering third party
The Washington Times Communities ^ | October 26, 2012 | Amanda Read

Posted on 10/27/2012 4:03:01 PM PDT by SincerelyAmanda

If you think an election that can't be won with your ideal candidate is an election not worth winning at all, think again.

(Excerpt) Read more at communities.washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: chuckbaldwin; cowardice; garyjohnson; libertarian; lordchamberlain; lukewarm; ronpaul; tories; virgilgoode

1 posted on 10/27/2012 4:03:11 PM PDT by SincerelyAmanda
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SincerelyAmanda
Scholars speculate that Ross Perot's 1992 third party candidacy gave Bill Clinton victory, since Perot garnered 19% of the vote that most likely have tilted to George H.W. Bush. If Clinton had not been elected, 9/11 could have been avoided through Osama Bin Laden's capture, and the financial crisis of 2008 could have been averted through absence of the Clinton administration's manipulation of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Worth repeating.

2 posted on 10/27/2012 4:10:55 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Ho, ho, hey, hey, I'm BUYcotting Chick-Fil-A)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SincerelyAmanda

Can I spurn third parties and damn the Two Party System at the same time? Because however worse Ross Perky made things for me or Ralph Baser for lefties, the system does not work. It quite plainly tabors Big Government. Not even the so-called Reagan Revolution put more than a dent in the New Deal/Great Society.

Romney/McCain/Bush/Dole/Bush/Ford/etc. being marginally better does not make them good. We will lose the Republic, if we haven’t already, playing this way, whether or not new parties can help. Simply put, democracy doesn’t work.


3 posted on 10/27/2012 4:15:12 PM PDT by Tublecane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TwelveOfTwenty

AMEN!! But hey, Clinton was COOL....Bush was SQUARE and SERIOUS....A country like ou just can;t tolerate SQUARE ANYMORE....to our DEMISE!!!


4 posted on 10/27/2012 4:17:11 PM PDT by Ann Archy ( ABORTION...the HUMAN Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SincerelyAmanda

On the plus side, the Obama forced labor collectives will have separate barracks with extra food rations for Gary Johnson voters.


5 posted on 10/27/2012 4:18:23 PM PDT by SpaceBar
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: TwelveOfTwenty

So true. The downwind consequences of Clintonism you itemized, plus SecState Hildebeast, federal judges, the petty progeny like Rahmbo, George Stephanopolis, the various marxist think tanks . . . have done incalculable damage to our republic.


6 posted on 10/27/2012 4:18:59 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Exterminate rats.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: TwelveOfTwenty

Republicans controlled Congress under Clinton and dominated the federal government for 8 years off and on afterwards. You can hardly say 08 was all Bill’s fault. As tor Osaka, he wasn’t the “indispensable man.” They might have pullef it off anyway. Or if not 9/11 then some other attack. You can’t reasonably after four decades of terror point to one decision not to nab one guy as determining the issue.


7 posted on 10/27/2012 4:19:20 PM PDT by Tublecane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Jacquerie

Yeah, damnable Clinton judges. Oh, what we could gave done with more John Robertses.


8 posted on 10/27/2012 4:20:44 PM PDT by Tublecane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: SincerelyAmanda

You might want to take a look at the future of the GOP before trashing 3rd parties. I realize that they have no chance today but the GOP of tomorrow is a place where men like Bill Clinton would feel at home. In fact, I’m not so sure he would be all that unwelcome today.

Basically the choice of the future is the maxists (current democrats) or the democrats (republican party of tomorrow).


9 posted on 10/27/2012 4:20:59 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SincerelyAmanda

3 parties = even more opportunities for crony corruption and government spending than 2 parties.


10 posted on 10/27/2012 4:22:13 PM PDT by ari-freedom
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SincerelyAmanda

There is a President memorialized on Mount Rushmore who was elected as the nominee of the Bull Moose Party.


11 posted on 10/27/2012 4:22:44 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SincerelyAmanda

I believe Romney will lose in the electoral college.

I will then put money and time into another party

The goal is to build a Conservative party and let the moderate GOP be the third smaller party


12 posted on 10/27/2012 4:22:59 PM PDT by morphing libertarian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tublecane

It was a black female Clinton appointee who turned the “racist” Hutaree militia loose and hammered the feds on the trumped up charges. She handed the Obama justice department their first defeat.


13 posted on 10/27/2012 4:26:52 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: TwelveOfTwenty

I have no doubt romney will win but not with my vote and I won’t be jumping up and down with joy. No, I certainly won’t be jumping up and down for Obama either (which is the first thing you Romneybots yell when anybody says anything about your new hero). Did you hear his speech today on cooperation with the dems and working across the aisle? Yeah, good luck with that. The bitching and moaning on this site will start by the end of January and it will become deafening. Conservatives will NOT have a chance to take over the GOP with Romney at its head, conservatives will NOT be able to fight both the GOPe and the Dems when he starts “cooperating”. Jim has warned for years about a Romney presidency but he has been ignored and I’m afraid we are all going to pay for that. Romney is going to destroy the chances of having a conservative in the next two elections (assuming Hilary doesn’t kick his ass in ‘16).


14 posted on 10/27/2012 4:29:10 PM PDT by conservaterian (Sarah/DeMint '12-NOPE Cain?- Guess NOT. ABO & ABMR. I'm going Goode.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: elkfersupper

It was the upstart Freesoil party that seized a bunch of seats in congress and helped lead abolitionist democrats and whigs to the new 4th party republicans.


15 posted on 10/27/2012 4:30:21 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Tublecane
The two party system is a consequence of the single member district.

After the first few times of running the 1790 constitution through its paces Thomas Jefferson and others realized that the only way they were going to get good men into office was to form a party to back them.

As you know a single member district requires 50% + 1 vote to win ~ if there is a single opponent.

Once Jefferson and his buddies created the Republican-Democratic or Democratic-Republican party, which went out and found candidates and actively supported them for election, the other side popped into existence. It consisted of the losers who didn't care to be in a Jeffersonian coalition.

Ever since that time new electoral political movements have risen up only on the destruction of a formerly successful coalition party.

Outside of regional or state parties, the Whig party was the best known party to challenge Jefferson's party, and it was destroyed over the slavery issue. The Republican party rose up with a new coalition of anti-slavery folks of all sorts, and anti-slavery Whigs.

Perot was a single individual, not a party BTW, so that wasn't going anywhere.

Again, the two party system is a consequence of the need to win in single member districts. To get rid of it all you need to do is abolish single member districts!

16 posted on 10/27/2012 4:31:03 PM PDT by muawiyah
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: elkfersupper

Tedder was not elected president while running as the Bull Moose nominee. Instead Teddy split the conservative vote and Wilson was elected, that was not good.


17 posted on 10/27/2012 4:32:21 PM PDT by DugwayDuke
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Tublecane

Take your meds.


18 posted on 10/27/2012 4:36:16 PM PDT by Jacquerie (Exterminate rats.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: SincerelyAmanda

I’m not looking for an ideal candidate, I’m looking for a non-atrocious candidate. Not many of those lately.


19 posted on 10/27/2012 4:37:11 PM PDT by discostu (Not a part of anyone's well oiled machine.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SincerelyAmanda

I will reluctantly give Romney my vote. I refused McCain and did a write in, but something’s got to give. IMO Romney is just the lesser of the evils. What has my country come to? I’m coming to loathe the media and politics of this nation.


20 posted on 10/27/2012 4:40:16 PM PDT by Kimberly GG ("Path to Citizenship" Amnesty candidates will NOT get my vote!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: elkfersupper

He was not elected as a Bull Moose candidate. He became accidentally became president after running as Republican VP, then was reelected as a Republican. He lost as a Bull Moose progressive after being out of office for four years.

Also, he’s no example of why we’d want third party presidents, Mt. Rushmore notwithstanding.


21 posted on 10/27/2012 4:41:20 PM PDT by Tublecane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Jacquerie

No, you take yours. (Gotcha!)


22 posted on 10/27/2012 4:42:14 PM PDT by Tublecane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Kimberly GG

At this point, my hope is that conservatives drop the Romney worship quickly after the election and actually stand up to him where his liberalism is concerned.

If we don’t, he’ll be a one term placeholder for the next incarnation of Obama.


23 posted on 10/27/2012 4:44:54 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: elkfersupper
There is a President memorialized on Mount Rushmore who was elected as the nominee of the Bull Moose Party.

You are mistaken.

Theodore Roosevelt became president in 1901 with the death of William McKinley. He had been elected VP in 1900 on the Republican ticket.

He ran for re-election in 1904, on the Republican ticket, and won.

He then retired in 1908, endorsing William Howard Taft for the presidency.

But he and Taft had a falling out and Roosevelt formed the Bull Moose party and was its nominee against the incumbent Republican Taft in 1912. Because of the third party split, the Democrat -- Woodrow Wilson -- won the election.

Thereupon, the Bull Moose party disappeared...

Accordingly, Theodore Roosevelt was once nominated for President by the Bull Moose party, but was never elected on that ticket.

24 posted on 10/27/2012 4:45:22 PM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA; Ignorance on parade.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek

Republicans were not a fourth party. After the Whigs split up they became the new first party, with our old friends the Democrats filling out the third iteration of the Two Party System that’s as old as the Republic and still around.

By my count we’ve had about three new ideogical iterations since then, without the names changing.


25 posted on 10/27/2012 4:50:32 PM PDT by Tublecane
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: SincerelyAmanda

The country is invariably adrift to the Left as the Republocrat duopoly brokers an electoral game of forced dilemma between the proverbial giant douche & turd sandwich every time.


26 posted on 10/27/2012 4:50:55 PM PDT by Utmost Certainty (Our Enemy, the State)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Tublecane

You are correct, the freesoilers faded about 2 years before the rise of the republicans. It was actually a pretty complex mess of a decade.

from Wiki

>>The party downplayed abolitionism and avoided the moral problems implicit in slavery. Members emphasized instead the threat slavery would pose to free white labor and northern businessmen in the new western territories. Although William Lloyd Garrison derided the party philosophy as “white manism,” the approach appealed to many moderate opponents of slavery. The 1848 platform pledged to promote limited internal improvements, work for a homestead law, paying off the public debt, and a moderate tariffs for revenue only.

The Compromise of 1850 temporarily neutralized the issue of slavery and undercut the party’s no-compromise position. Most Barnburners returned to the Democratic party, and the Free Soil Party became dominated by ardent anti-slavery leaders.

The party ran John P. Hale in the 1852 presidential election, but its share of the popular vote shrank to less than 5%. However, two years later, after enormous outrage over the Kansas-Nebraska Act of 1854, the remains of the Free Soil Party helped form the Republican Party.


27 posted on 10/27/2012 4:55:38 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: okie01
Okay, you got me.

To which political party did Washington, Jefferson, Madison, etc. belong?

For that matter, what was their religious denomination?

The two-party system is a train wreck and the Republicans have not served liberty-minded people like me well at all.

It is time for something else.

28 posted on 10/27/2012 5:01:03 PM PDT by elkfersupper ( Member of the Original Defiant Class)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: morphing libertarian

It won’t work.


29 posted on 10/27/2012 5:05:55 PM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek

Lincoln and VP Hamlin were elected as Republicans in 1860, but in 1864 Lincoln jettisoned Hamlin and ran with ‘War Democrat’ Johnson as ‘National Union’. Fremont, Republican candidate in 1856, ran as the Republican in 1864 until he realized the split vote would yield a ‘Peace Democrat’(McClellan) win.


30 posted on 10/27/2012 5:06:01 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 27 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek

Agreed! I’m not sure that Romney wouldn’t do some of the same ‘liberal’ things Obama does.

aghhh, IMO, there just aren’t enough Duncan Hunters in this country.


31 posted on 10/27/2012 5:06:18 PM PDT by Kimberly GG ("Path to Citizenship" Amnesty candidates will NOT get my vote!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: elkfersupper
The two-party system is a train wreck and the Republicans have not served liberty-minded people like me well at all.

It is time for something else.

The history of third parties in the American political system is generally a.) ineffective or b.) destructive.

Better solution: Follow the same route as the Commies -- thru the 70s and 80s, the radicals took over the Democrat party. We can take over the Republican party.

It can be done. The Tea Party is a good start.

32 posted on 10/27/2012 5:12:13 PM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA; Ignorance on parade.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: SincerelyAmanda
If WE, THE PEOPLE, had enough backbone to throw out the congresscritters when they showed they were not there for us, the electoral college for critters, but for themselves, i.e. furthering their own benefits, ignoring our thoughts, furthering their power and prestige, etc. AND kept them informed of our thoughts on given positions, I think we would have a tad more control.

We have never been ruled by edict before, and I for one don't like it. We have live in countries where we were on our best behavior and the local customs were not ours. When living there became intolerable, we left and came home. We have no place to go...therefore, with God's help we have to fix this mess AND be vigilant it doesn't happen again.

33 posted on 10/27/2012 5:23:20 PM PDT by momf (Gun, mind, power shouldn't be followed by "control"!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek

Tuesday night at the RNC should illustrate with perfect clarity to any person with a shred of understanding - that Grassroots CONSERVATISM in the GOP was rendered IRRELEVANT in the GOP and national politics.

Put simply, Conservatism has no home in either party. It is eschewed by both machines of the Ruling Class Oligarchy. Regardless who “Wins” - Conservatism has already been lost in the short term by machine politics.

Any future for Conservatism has to come from outside the system - because Tuesday night at the RNC was done precisely so Conservatives could NOT wrest control of the GOP from the GOPe/RINO Ruling Class.

And I’ll state again - no Marxist in history has ever left office because of an election ousting them. Most often elections in a Marxist regime are shams to create an illusion that the “people” have a voice. Since Cook County went national - I will not be surprised by any outcome this November to January.

Regardless of whether or not Romney takes the Oath of Office - Conservatism will be on the outside of the power structure in DC. We have to start thinking outside of the box that the Ruling Class has overtaken, overthrown and corrupted for it’s own use. We cannot “win” in a rigged game where they set and change the rules to keep themselves in perpetual power.

The fruits of the last 3 decades alone bears this out - we have devolved to the point we are stuck with a choice between an actual Marxist, and a Liberal Democrat. We have to be thinking past November and sadly too many are not.


34 posted on 10/27/2012 5:28:00 PM PDT by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Tublecane
Republicans controlled Congress under Clinton and dominated the federal government for 8 years off and on afterwards. You can hardly say 08 was all Bill’s fault.

Nabbing Bin Laden, assuming the opportunity presented itself, was Clinton's call to make. The opportunity presented itself, and he didn't.

The housing crash could have been averted. The Republicans tried to establish an over site committee for Fannie and Freddie, but the Democrats had enough votes to block them. Among those who blocked them was Senator Obama. That's right, President Obama inherited the housing mess from Senator Obama.

As for the collapse of the US auto industry, of course it wasn't Clinton's fault that Americans chose foreign makes over their own, but it wasn't Bush's fault either, but who has received the most blame?

As tor Osaka, he wasn’t the “indispensable man.” They might have pullef it off anyway. Or if not 9/11 then some other attack. You can’t reasonably after four decades of terror point to one decision not to nab one guy as determining the issue.

You're right that we'll never know what could have been, but if Obama had been captured without a fight as could have happened in 1996, his calls for others to martyr themselves may have impressed a lot less.

35 posted on 10/27/2012 5:33:43 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Ho, ho, hey, hey, I'm BUYcotting Chick-Fil-A)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: SincerelyAmanda
We do not have a parliamentary system!

The Founding Fathers wanted to minimize the influence of “factions” (their term for what we would call political parties!). They knew that human nature was such that there would be a tendency for “factions” to arise. The system they designed, the system we currently have forces “factions” toward the minimal number, which is two. At first we had disorganized “factions” the Federalists and the Anti-Federalists. Over time the “factions” took on more organization and structure as well as different names and ideologies (Sometimes the ideologies switched places!), the system they built always drove “politics” toward the minimal number of two!

Yes one is less then two but then you would have a one party state and “politics” wouldn't;t exist!

The idiots who cry about the horrors pf partisanship I always ask them if they prefer a one party state, like say North Korea? That's when they get mad at me!

36 posted on 10/27/2012 5:33:53 PM PDT by Reily (l)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: conservaterian
I have no doubt romney will win but not with my vote and I won’t be jumping up and down with joy.

He'll win with my vote, but only because I don't care for the alternative.

No, I certainly won’t be jumping up and down for Obama either (which is the first thing you Romneybots yell when anybody says anything about your new hero).

Of course you couldn't make your point without insults. Fine. Our next President will either Romney or Obama, and nothing you "closet Obama supporters" can say can refute that.

Did you hear his speech today on cooperation with the dems and working across the aisle?

As Governor of Massachusetts he didn't have much of a choice. As a candidate for President he'll have to appeal to as many voters as possible. We Conservatives will have to ensure that the Congress he has to work with is as Conservative as possible.

Yeah, good luck with that. The bitching and moaning on this site will start by the end of January and it will become deafening. Conservatives will NOT have a chance to take over the GOP with Romney at its head, conservatives will NOT be able to fight both the GOPe and the Dems when he starts “cooperating”.

And what chance would even the most Conservative Congress possible have against Obama's executive orders? None, because they won't have the votes to stop him.

I am under no illusions about Romney being a Reagan Conservative. That's why I say we also need to elect Conservatives into Congress, to hopefully keep him focused on the economy.

Jim has warned for years about a Romney presidency but he has been ignored and I’m afraid we are all going to pay for that.

We didn't ignore him. Many of us spent plenty to get someone else nominated, but what happened? Bachmann gaffed herself out of the running, Cain either couldn't control himself or caved over easily refuted charges, and Newt couldn't overcome his woman problem. Add to that the manner in which Freepers attacked the Conservative candidates they didn't support, and by the time it was over, Romney was the only one left.

Romney is going to destroy the chances of having a conservative in the next two elections (assuming Hilary doesn’t kick his ass in ‘16).

Our alternative is another four years of Obama, who will use executive orders to push his agenda through. The MSM will cover for him, and even the most Conservative Congress possible won't have the numbers to stop him. Then what chance will we have to get a Conservative "in the next two elections"?

37 posted on 10/27/2012 5:33:59 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Ho, ho, hey, hey, I'm BUYcotting Chick-Fil-A)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: okie01
Follow the same route as the Commies -- thru the 70s and 80s, the radicals took over the Democrat party. We can take over the Republican party. It can be done. The Tea Party is a good start.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but Tuesday night at the RNC - Romney, the Ruling Class and Boehner all took part and changed the rules DESPITE vocal opposition to ensure such a takeover from within by Conservatives WILL NEVER HAPPEN.

In short - the GOP-e and the Ruling Class, that same bunch that cooperates with Obama's Marxists and gives their treason a full pass - they made sure that their power is forever guaranteed to run and decide the course of the GOP. Their rules change ensures NO CONSERVATIVE GRASSROOTS MOVEMENT ala the TEA Party/Palin or Ron PaulNuts can threaten their control of the GOP.

Bachman, Akin, and Palin are just a few current examples of the GOP doing everything they can to ostracize them and leave them out in the wind. They would rather a Democrat take any seats they are running for than let a Conservative have them - make no mistake.

If Conservatives want a voice in Washington - they are going to HAVE to start a new party and let the GOP go the way of the Whigs. There is no other option. Anyone who tells you differently is either a damn liar, part of the GOP-e machine or clueless of where Conservatism actually stands on the political battlefield.

38 posted on 10/27/2012 5:38:57 PM PDT by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: INVAR

A lot of people, Freepers included, are unaware of the changes you outlined.


39 posted on 10/27/2012 5:50:54 PM PDT by Balding_Eagle (Liberals, at their core, are aggressive & dangerous to everyone around them,)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Balding_Eagle
This is where it started at 2 PM on Aug 29th:

GOP Rules Committee rapidly moving to shut out Conservative Grassroots

Here's the result of what they did:

How the Establishment Stole the GOP

This quote sums it up pretty well:

A small coterie of Establishment Republicans have wrested control of the GOP and formed the mold into which any Republican wanting to run for president from now on must fit.

I have chosen NOT TO FORGET what Romney and the Ruling Class have done - they did far more damage to Conservatives than Obama could ever have hoped to achieve. But everyone is full of fear, short-sighted and willing to forget out of blind hatred of Obama, having no clue that nothing is going to change except that Conservatives are forever sidelined and the country marches further Left.

40 posted on 10/27/2012 6:14:50 PM PDT by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: INVAR
Their rules change ensures NO CONSERVATIVE GRASSROOTS MOVEMENT ala the TEA Party/Palin or Ron PaulNuts can threaten their control of the GOP.

Rules can be changed.

Take over the precincts, take over the county, take over the District, take over the state...and next thing you know, you've got control of the RNC.

A conservative third party only means a Democrat majority...forever. Winning that way will require more patience than taking over the Republican party.

41 posted on 10/27/2012 6:17:27 PM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA; Ignorance on parade.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: cripplecreek

“It was the upstart Freesoil party that seized a bunch of seats in congress and helped lead abolitionist democrats and whigs to the new 4th party republicans.”

Indeed, and we need an abolitionist president today, for the exact same reasons. Why vote Whig?


42 posted on 10/27/2012 6:22:25 PM PDT by JCBreckenridge (Texas, Texas, Whisky)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Conservativegreatgrandma

that’s ok we’re not counting on you

Keep doing what ever it is you’re doing that’s working so well.


43 posted on 10/27/2012 6:32:05 PM PDT by morphing libertarian
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: Tublecane

Democracy is a fast track to socialism. We lost our precious Constitutional Republic a long time ago.


44 posted on 10/27/2012 6:34:41 PM PDT by carriage_hill ("0bummer's a towering figure" - even a Garden Gnome casts a long shadow at sunset.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: carriage_hill
the 17th amendment is a perfect example of what is wrong with pure democracy where senators are elected by popular vote. It was sold as snake oil that promised to empower the people but what it really did was stripped power from the state.

Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

We have a solidly republican state where Flint, Ann Arbor, and Detroit elect democrat senators who override us from the federal level.
45 posted on 10/27/2012 7:08:31 PM PDT by cripplecreek (What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world but loses his soul?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: okie01
Rules can be changed.

Take over the precincts, take over the county, take over the District, take over the state...and next thing you know, you've got control of the RNC.

Tell you what, try doing that in Cook County, IL - and see where it gets you. Accomplish that - and I'm all ears to your pipe-dream. Until then, Cook County has gone national. And being a former Republican Precinct Captain IN Cook Co. - good luck with the pipe dream.

A conservative third party only means a Democrat majority...forever. Winning that way will require more patience than taking over the Republican party.

You are stuck thinking in a box the Ruling Class has us believing we are stuck in. The Commies took over the DNC and the Liberals took over the GOP. Once in power - they always work to ensure their power is never challenged. Playing THEIR game by THEIR rules which change arbitrarily - to suit themselves. Playing this rigged game we've been playing for decades ENSURES a liberal/Socialist majority forever. Maybe you just aren't paying attention to where we have actually arrived at: a choice between a liberal Democrat and a Marxist.

Next cycle it will be a choice between a Nancy Pelosi and a Hillary Clinton - Hillary being the "conservative" choice. Wake up - and recognize you will never win a war if you cannot and refuse to recognize the ground you are fighting on.

If you choose to fight on an enemy's chosen ground at his choosing and by his rules - you lose. Better start thinking outside the box, otherwise we're just slaves and pawns on the plantation serving the greater glory of the State.

I'm no longer on the plantation. I'm free of it.

46 posted on 10/27/2012 9:59:07 PM PDT by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: INVAR
I'm no longer on the plantation. I'm free of it.

Guess we can't expect much help from you, then.

Good luck with the Ross Perots, the Virgil Goodes, the Ron Pauls, etc.

47 posted on 10/27/2012 10:05:50 PM PDT by okie01 (THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA; Ignorance on parade.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 46 | View Replies]

To: Tublecane
I just saw this. "but if Obama had been captured" in post 35 should have been "but if Osama (Bin Laden) had been captured".
48 posted on 10/28/2012 2:43:38 PM PDT by TwelveOfTwenty (Ho, ho, hey, hey, I'm BUYcotting Chick-Fil-A)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson