Skip to comments.Hundreds evacuated after US levee breaks; people on roofs awaiting rescue
Posted on 10/30/2012 4:42:33 AM PDT by Kartographer
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...guess I could of just sent you this eh?
zoom out you’ll see the airport and river....the towns affected sit in between....zoom out more and you’ll see Giants stadium...
Funny, how, after my helping somebody who is a leftist or liberal, they assume that I am a Democrat.
Not so funny, is, how many see political motivation as the reason, or their definition of “opportunity,” is: How to seize upon *select* facts and misrepresent them in an out-of-context attack on a political opponent.
When my motive is, that I wish to help, it’s just a part of me, and I am thankful, particularly on “bad days,” that I had a chance to help somebody - if lifts my spirits.
I thought we are better than that. I know we should be better than that. But after hearing you defend this behavior (And it was FAR more than just rude) I am no longer think that we can be better than that.
If one wasn't prepared for this storm, it is time to prepare for the next time there is in issue like this - any kind of emergency.
It was overhyped.
It is still being overhyped.
Thanks, Doogle for help on Google!
You are funny! Thanks for the help!
You are funny! Thanks for the help!
yes, Moonachie is right around (north of) MetLife stadium, which you know but a lot of FreePers don’t is an area whose “natural” state is that of a swampy wetland, tideland area, where in the best of times the Hackensack River meanders down to Newark Bay and where in the worst of times Newark Bay moves up the Hackensack River, threatening communities like Moonachie - just a few feet above sea level, a place where most prudent people WOULD NOT live for any reason
the term “people who live in glass houses should not throw stones” has a parallel wise Maxim - people who live where nature does not favor their tranquility get what they paid for - trouble
I am more in favor of buying residents out of our most endangered residential areas than always and forever paying to rescue them, rebuild for them, and trying to keep nature away from them.
If we give nature adequate space of its own instead of thinking we can easily occupy any space we chose, we will not have to artificially create “green spaces” we can all enjoy and we will not keep paying, and paying, and paying over and over just to prove (we don’t prove anything) we can live anywhere we want. We can, but the cost is not always worth it and particularly NOT worth it when too much of the burden falls on majorities who prudently do not live in perenially endangerd places.
In a totally Libertarian society, I could put up with it.
In as much as we all pay for it in this society, I’m agin it. Buy ‘em out, move ‘em out, leave room for the natural ebb and flow of natures waters, and we will all live more peacefully, even durimg the worst weather.
And 8 million without power.
Heavy flooing in PA. Severe damage in Long Island and Nantucket Sounds.
Yeah a pretty small area I'd say.
LOL. Wife has been giving me sh1t for years about it. Gave me even more grief last week as a I topped off supplies and checked equipment.
Then she watched the news on Friday and started freaking out. On learning what we had and what we could do she started inviting all her friends over to ride out the storm (c'mon over we have food, water, generators, beds, blankets, games, etc...
I happily endure all of the BS because as Sandy approached, I was calm, cool and collected knowing I could deal with just about anything except the total destruction of my house (and I even have plans and supplies for that)
“a place where most prudent people WOULD NOT live for any reason”
“people who live where nature does not favor their tranquility get what they paid for - trouble”
Indeed. But I have news for you - by your apparent defintion of “nature does not favor”, MOST of this country would be “packed up and shipped out”.
My region in MD is probably the ideal place to live. However, we do OCCASIONALLY suffer major catastrophic flooding from hurricanes (1972), major snowstorms (2010 record-setting event), and other random acts of God. That doesn’t mean we should ignore how marvelously blessed it is 95% of the time and abandon it. NJ hardly suffers from hurricanes more than MD does - although it IS 1 giant flood plain/marsh, indeed, as is our Eastern Shore.
Unfortunately the issue here is not generation but rather transmission. Look up the videos of the major transformer exploding.
Just about every part of the country is prone to some sort of natural disaster; earth quakes, wild fires, mud slides, hurricanes, tornadoes, droughts, blizzards, sand storms, etc. For the most part the mid-Atlantic and NE is pretty calm most of the time compared to other parts of the country. I for one could not imagine living in CA or in tornado alley or in Buffalo.
Centralized command, decentralized control.
Evacuating millions of people in a several day period, not knowing which way to go, could also result in as many casualties and deaths as riding out a Tropical Storm when public and private buildings are constructed to withstand greater forces.
PS, would you evacuate if you lived in a blue state, when the news reports indicate the storm would likely lessen to a Tropical Storm by landfall?
When the press is pushing ‘massive’ evacuations of about 100 people from a trailer park, in the Flood Plain, where a broken berm has allowed flooding, which hasn’t crested their trailer floors, but is hip deep in the parking lot,...I do feel compassion for my fellow man, but I also discern between others who experience Class 2-5 hurricanes every 1-3 years with far more at risk.
In the spirit of Sam Kinison,...You are a mobile people, subject to daily commutes and annual moves. If you don’t want to be flooded out,...then move your trailer out of the FLOOD PLAIN!
I believe a large number of the people without power have no power because it was shut off, not because the storm knocked it out. But I’m not sure.
And I am saying it is a small area, relatively speaking. Chicago, LA, Seattle, Phoenix, etc. are not impacted.
I’m not saying it is not a big deal, especially to those in the thick of it. I’m just trying to zero in on the correct perspective from which to take this event in.
MOST of this country would be packed up and shipped out.
“Most of this country” is a vast over-statement by a million miles.
You use the term “most” far too liberally - get a map of Maryland and a map of New Jersey; MOST of the land of either is not sitting on the atlantic ocean shore line.
MOST of Maryland and MOST of New Jersey and MOST residents of both states, are not located/residing where the impact of large storms from the coast (they have the largest impact here in the northeast) have the MOST and MOST devastating impact - which is near the shore as opposed to away from it.
MOST of us do not reside where nature intends to constantly unmake and remake our ocean shoreline, in processes that include the major storms, in processes that created them. MOST of us live inland enough, and some even just inland enough that if nature was allowed to do what she has done along our shores for thousands of years, without too much concern from us (because we had not planted ourselves in the way in very large and unnecessary numbers) then we would be far less concerned about these storms, still be of the same size as we are in population, comfortably, obtain far less damages from them, and still be residing in MOST of the land of our states.
And, even when it comes to our rivers, we have begun the steps here in New Jersey to buying out the residents in those places where river flooding occurs most often, creating open green spaces where a river in a storm can expand into and retract from, as needed, instead of all of us paying again and again and again to rescue the property and infrastructure sitting in what should be a natural flood plain.
That’s what the area in Moonachie New Jersey and all around MetLife stadium is - a natural, swampy, wetland, tideland area where the sleepy Hackensack River flowing through there nearly at sea level would be no problem to a population of the present size in northern New Jersey, if it was given the open space nature always left to it.
I am not opposed, in general to people living in places that are perennially endangered places from natural causes. But as long as the rest of us are taxed to bail them out of the consequences of choosing to live there, instead of those who live there and there alone incurring 100% of the costs of always rebuilding, including the infrastructure, then I am more in favor of buying them out so nature’s natural flood plains become public green spaces and yes even if that means some coastlines are multi-mile long ribbon like state parks.
I think it’s because people simply don’t trust the MSM to be honest, and assumed they were making political hay out of it - crying wolf, so to speak.
That was the day I put all of my guns and ammunition in the duck blind with me. I was getting a charcoal fire ready to cook some hot dogs, lighting the fire with gasoline of course, the gasoline flared set the brush on the duck blind on fire and ended up burning me the dog and the duck blind , We were lucky to escape with our lives, but all of my guns and ammunition were destroyed.
That’s my story and I am sticking to it. So there is no sense in Obama’s UN Gestapo coming around looking for my guns after they get them outlawed.
“People who live where nature does not favor.”
Where does it favor? The west coast? The west coast? I think not, while far from any hurricane, it has its earthquakes. The mid west? It has its tornadoes. Then there is the Madrid fault, not to mention the Yellowstone super volcano. Nature can get unfavorable anywhere.
“And Obama does nothing....”
Another failure, and unfulfilled promise of the Obama administration! Didn’t he tell us the “seas would stop rising” when he became POTUS!
* Burned Building
* Flooded Streets
* Hospital Evacuated
* Dangling Crane
* Transformer Explosion
I saw the dangling crane and transformer explosion and thought I could hear the derisive laughter from New Orleans!
From North Carolina to Canada and from the East Coast to Chicago does not qualify as a large are to you?
“Where does it favor? The west coast? The west coast? I think not, while far from any hurricane, it has its earthquakes. The mid west? It has its tornadoes. Then there is the Madrid fault, not to mention the Yellowstone super volcano. Nature can get unfavorable anywhere.”
(1) The earthquake prone areas on the west coast (a) do not extend much above San Francisco (not a big concern in Oregon and Washington) (b) are found to be in, and more active in land closer to the coast than away from the coast with the exception of the San Andreas fault which veers in a NorthWest/Southeast slant to about 70 miles east of L.A., and (c) produces only occasional quakes that cuase damage and only rarely quakes of any major impact. Of greater and more frequent cost concern to California residents is the (a) constant bailing out of homesites and infrastructure built on coastal hills made of mostly sand and soil with great coastal views and great and constant losses from storms that erode the sandy hills under the homes, as well as homes and infratructure demanding location surrounded by mountain forests threatened by fire every year. No, there are plent of places in California that are tranquil the vast majority of the time, and those places still have plenty of room for the people in California who chose to live where EVERY YEAR their property has a greater than not chance of being at risk.
The same kinds of alternatives exist in every region of the country.
If you have listened to anything I have said you know I am not talking about the once in hundreds of years “what ifs” like the New Madrid fault or the Yellowstone super valcano.
We here in New Jersey have been bailing out New Jersey shore residents for some event nearly every year in the last twenty years, because a fraction of the population insists on living where they can see the shore out their window; and then when everyone else in the state wants to get to the shore, the locals want to charge you for the privilege. THEIR privilege would disappear and they’d move inland a bit - where most New Jersey residents live - if the rest of us didn’t keep rebuilding THEIR beaches for them.
Give the shoreline back to everyone in the state and our winter storm damages would be drastically cut, and the state could still host as many residents as it does now.
If not, then everyone needs to become 100% Libertarian and pay 100% of their own life expenses and that would include coastal towns buying - on the local tax money - their own “storm damage” insurance policies to pay 100% of their own recovery costs.
As far as I know it was only lower Manhattan that had the power deliberately cut (500K people). The other 7.5 million are due to storm damage. Which is the largest ever for storm damage.
Yes, because all the reporting has been by and about those narcissistic journos in New York, you may have missed this: the Delmarva Peninsula has been devastated. People in New York City have been inconvenienced, but in eastern Maryland and Delaware, whole towns have been demolished, businesses destroyed, houses washed away or undermined,islands in the Chesapeake submerged. Salisbury, Maryland is under water, Ocean City has been badly damaged. There will be great hardship. And no, not all the places were built on the ocean, not by any means; the storm just swept across the peninsula.
There's so much wrong with your post I don't know where to start:
1) The Cascadia subduction zone extends off all of California north of San Franciaco, Oregon, and Washington, and is capable of an earthquake and tsunami equivalent to Indian Ocean 2004 or the Japanese quake. Seattle itself is underlain by numerous large additional faults capable of earthquakes larger than the one that destroyed Port au Prince, Haiti or that killed 6,000 people in Kobe, Japan - and also generating massive tsunamis within Puget Sound.
In the next 30 years, there will be earthquakes in the San Franscisco Bay area, Los Angeles, or both, that will make Sandy, Katrina, and 9/11 look like a joke both in terms of damage and of deaths.
California has been absurdly lucky in terms of earthquakes since 1906, when the population really exploded. That luck will run out.
Honestly it's a fluke that the highest dollar value of damage, and of deaths, for natural disasters in the US has been from hurricanes. Long term, the top spots are going to be taken over by earthquakes.
You implied that the very indeed flat land of NJ - hardly ever subject to hurricanes/TS, mind you - is 1 of those places “you should never live”.
Thus did I respond to you, that most places in the US would be “uninhabitable” by those very strict standards.
Canada’s just getting rain. While watching the weather map of the nation as the storm approached Jersey and made landfall, I noticed the rainfall in Montana was actually heavier.
However, the tsunami like storm surge did take a heavy toll, from what I am reading. But that doesn’t include Canada and the inland US.
“The Cascadia subduction zone extends off all of California north of San Franciaco, Oregon, and Washington, and is capable of an earthquake and tsunami equivalent to Indian Ocean 2004 or the Japanese quake. Seattle itself is underlain by numerous large additional faults capable of earthquakes larger than the one that destroyed Port au Prince”
“capable” is opeartive word
nuclear power plants are “capable” of exploding and capable other safety-concerning events but those events are rare and the worst of them very rare - unlike - as is my point, many flood prone areas that are continually and perennially not just “capable” of flooding but prone to
“In the next 30 years, there will be earthquakes in the San Franscisco Bay area, Los Angeles, or both, that will make Sandy, Katrina, and 9/11 look like a joke both in terms of damage and of deaths.”
we were told that when we moved to California in 1957, and the tale that such an occurance is guaranteed is no more thn a crystal ball projection - one will, but no one knows when
“California has been absurdly lucky in terms of earthquakes since 1906, when the population really exploded. That luck will run out.”
again, I would not rely on your crystal ball for anything
“Honestly it’s a fluke that the highest dollar value of damage, and of deaths, for natural disasters in the US has been from hurricanes. Long term, the top spots are going to be taken over by earthquakes.”
it is no fluke, they are a constant, not mearly “accidental” or random or infrequent occurance nor is their U.S. landfall infrequent - unlike earthquakes - it is assured there will be major earthquakes every year and it is assured that some, at least one or more, will make landfall in the U.S. every year and cause great damage - unlike the very rare major earthquakes
and knowledge of those areas MOST OFTEN under ANNUAL threat from Hurricanes is KNOWLEDGE not guessing and in those areas the most detailed subject to the most likely and most severe damage IS known (adjacent to the shore)
while the specific epicenter of “the next” rare earthquake, anywere is not known at all, nor is the overall most immediate area it will affect
meanwhile, as the billions in Hurricane damages mount year after year after year, no one will hold their breath waiting for your next big earthquake
We prepare so that we're prepared.
There's no one on earth who'll give more of a damn about me/mine than me/mine.
We're from the goobermint and we're here to help . . should send shivers down the spine of any sentient American in 2012.
And in the end, no one gets out alive anyway
People in Canada have died due to this storm.
WIll Canada declare war?
“You implied that the very indeed flat land of NJ - hardly ever subject to hurricanes/TS, mind you - is 1 of those places you should never live.”
I implied nothing of the sort. I did not imply “all’ of New Jesrey at all. On the contrary.
All of us in New Jersey, when Hurricanes come up the Atlantic coast can experience high winds and rain from them, sometimes even when they have come ashore south of New Jersey, but in the least comprehensive damaging of such storms the living-on-a-sand-bar shore towns are ALWAYS affected and quite of the worst affected and in the worst situations it is inevitable they are the worst affected, and alwsys subjected greater ill affects than communities no more than a few miles inland; AND these same communities are in the same situation with any Atlantic ocean born storm, Hurricane or not.
Like I said, we - in New Jersey - are beginning to take steps in this state to buy out residents nearly always affected from the perinnally flooded areas on some of our rivers, instead of picking up the rebuilding bills year after year. We should start to do the same with our almost always worst-hit shore towns. Nature has been saying they should have been planted further back from the shore and everyone ignored all the natural signals - not randam, not occasional, not once now and again but constant.
I live in central Kentucky. People have died in several storms here this year alone. Two large buildings I drive by every day on my way to work were on the other side of the highway one day.
IOW, this storm was a tragedy, as were many this year. And last. And the year before that.
Three burners, runs a good long time on a tank of unleaded, purchased in the early '70s, no longer as pretty as the one above, but will no doubt outlast my mortal coil.
Much of this thread, and similar gratuitous ego-stroking re Sandy the past few days on others, is an embarrassment and a stain on FreeRepublic.
The other thing that irks me in the extreme is that I know some stats for New Jersey that don’t come to other people’s fingertips so easily. I know that New Jersey is one of the worst offenders for “repetitive loss flood compensation” from the Feds when they’re declared a disaster area time and time again.
A huge chunk of the US population lives in coastal counties in the US and a tad more than 50% of the US population lives within 50 miles of a coastline.
Given the number of federal resources that we’re having to pour into reconstruction, insurance subsidy and rescue operations in the coastal regions, I’m getting weary of having my pocket picked so that people can live near the beach. No one subsidizes my housing. No one is coming to rescue me when we’re buried in snow for a week or more on end, or when the power goes down and it’s -10F outside. I pony up the money to deal with that on my own.
Then to have to listen to the wailing and lamentations of people who have been flooded yet again... because they’re still living in coastal regions which have flooded before, have flooded again and will flood many more times in the future. This becomes tedious. These people just don’t take a hint. Mom Nature washes them away some years to decades ago (but within living memory), and they just rebuild on the same spot. Except now, they pick the pockets of the US taxpayer to help them do it....
I think these issues you have are certainly fair enough. But remember that this particular storm coincides with an election that the majority of Americans, including an overwhelming majority of Freepers it seems, is going to determine whether or not America will survive as we know it or deteriorate into a 3rd World Communist totalitarian state on the brink of total Civil War with all our Universities, hospitals, cities etc going bankrupt and America doomed to collapse on every political, social and economic front. They are worried about whether or not the Democrat Party could gain a monopoly on all future elections from here like the Nazis and Bolsheviks did in their dictatorships. And the thought of this storm allowing Obama to get the election victory is too terrifying for most people to be able to look past it. Thus, even if this storm was at the level of Katrina, Wilma,Charlie or Andrew in terms of the intensity of devastation, they would still have many of these complaints. I do think it is also partly because there actually is a lot of people in this particular area who do have an obscene entitlement mentality and feel everyone must pay attention to them even when they are only inconvenienced on minor levels. Of course, there are many decent, honorable Americans, including genuine conservatives, in the most badly affected areas who do not fall into this entitlement mentality and we as people must give them our support and prayers. But I feel this are the main reasons people feel this way, understandable as it is why it would be very irritating.
“It was overhyped.It is still being overhyped.”
I live in NJ. People are dead and homes and businesses are completely destroyed. Not overhyped!
Have a brother and sister living half a mile apart in Shirley, Long Island, and they were spared.
Sister text at 11pm Monday night that she, her husband, and 5 year old were tired and going to bed. Then today sister was on stand-by waiting to hear if she should go 30 minutes to work Tuesday.
Have no report on that.
So amid near-by disasters, some were untouched, TG.
About a week ago I e-mailed some friends about being prepared with survival supplies, with the possibility of rioting Nov.6/7, when Obumpo loses OR wins. That there are crazies out there waiting for any excuse, and others who will genuinely be enraged if he loses.
Riots may not happen in your town, but maybe goods and services will be hampered getting in to restock supermarkets, etc.
If rioting does not happen, then one has supplies for weather disasters.
And earthquakes like here in CA. We were told a few years back to now prepare for 7, not 3 days. That help may not come for 7 days.
One woman I had sent that e-mail heads-up couldn’t believe this weather disaster happening so soon after that e-mail, telling me this when I saw her Tuesday night.
Sure woke her up!
Have also seen a possibility of rioting on Jan. 20th - - -
It’s NEVER too early to prepare. . .
While there may be many dummies there are a number who have reasons.
Once you go the authorities can make it difficult to get back in after the storm. Many fear looting of their property.
Less than that would be an iffy stretch for a longer-term power outage etc, while much more might stray into being too intimidating at first.
The sense of accomplishment from assembling that initial 'two weeks worth' should be a good motivator to add a couple/few things with each normal grocery trip.
Friends of mine followed instructions and evacuated to a hotel 100 miles away. Hurricane changed paths and hit their hotel.
Cat 4 or 5, get out of town. If you are in a storm surge area then get out of town.
If your home can’t take the winds of a storm like this then you had better work on improving it.
“The other 7.5 million are due to storm damage. Which is the largest ever for storm damage.”
Hardly the largest ever. Its also mostly due to poorly maintained infrastructure. Utilities don’t trim trees and then the trees take out the power lines.
The North East has the heaviest concentration of people. That doesn’t make this storm a cat 5.