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Bodies Of Two Young Boys Missing On Staten Island In Aftermath Of Sandy Found
newyork.cbslocal.com ^ | November 1, 2012 3:03 PM | Staff

Posted on 11/01/2012 1:25:42 PM PDT by Red Badger

Police: Mom Knocked On Man's Door For Help, Was Turned Away

NEW YORK (CBSNewYork) – The search for two missing boys on Staten Island has ended tragically.

The NYPD spent more than two days searching a marshy area off Father Capodanno Boulevard.

The boys, 4 and 2, were with their mother trying to leave the area during the height of the storm Monday when their SUV hit a tree and stalled.

Glenda Moore and her boys got out of the car and went to a nearby home looking for help, CBS 2′s Emily Smith reported.

Moore knocked on a man’s door for help but he said no and turned her away, Smith reported.

Moore was then clinging to life — hanging on to a railing — when a surge of water came up and took her 4-year-old son Connor, and her 2-year-old son Brandon — who came right out of her arms, Smith reported.

When the water receded, the boys were nowhere to be found.

Their bodies were found Thursday morning in a wooded marsh.

Moore was on the scene when police confirmed her worst fears, Smith reported.

Sandy has been blamed for at least 37 deaths in New York City.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; US: New York
KEYWORDS: hurricanesandy; missing; nypd; rescue
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1 posted on 11/01/2012 1:25:48 PM PDT by Red Badger
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To: Red Badger

And the story in the NY Post is that the boys were swept off the roof of her car after she placed them there.


2 posted on 11/01/2012 1:27:58 PM PDT by TopDog2
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To: Red Badger

Don’t leave your boat and try to reach shore.


3 posted on 11/01/2012 1:28:33 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Red Badger

I hope the man who denied them shelter gets all the media attention he deserves.


4 posted on 11/01/2012 1:28:33 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: Red Badger

>>>>Moore knocked on a man’s door for help but he said no and turned her away

I hold that man responsible for the death of those children.


5 posted on 11/01/2012 1:28:58 PM PDT by GoodDay
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To: Red Badger

Very tragic story. I read yesterday that the boys were swept out of her arms when she got them out of the car, which was being dragged away by a sudden surge of water. She then went to a house and screamed for help, but the people there never opened the door. The wind was very high and it’s possible that they didn’t hear her.

However, the information that she actually got there with the boys and was turned away is just horrible.


6 posted on 11/01/2012 1:29:52 PM PDT by livius
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To: skeeter

“I hope the man who denied them shelter gets all the media attention he deserves.”

I think this man will have some explaining to do when he finally stands before the Great White Throne!


7 posted on 11/01/2012 1:30:24 PM PDT by ChoobacKY
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To: Red Badger

OMG, my heart is breaking! Those poor little boys! That poor woman!


8 posted on 11/01/2012 1:33:10 PM PDT by the OlLine Rebel (Common sense is an uncommon virtue./Technological progress cannot be legislated.)
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To: Red Badger
"Moore knocked on a man’s door for help but he said no and turned her away..."

This must be one more example of New Yorkers rushing to each others' aid in the time of crisis.

Of course, Ayn Rand devotees would have a hard time criticizing the guy, since there was nothing in it for him.

9 posted on 11/01/2012 1:33:23 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Red Badger

The story, smells bogus...

Why do even freepers swallow this stuff, without anything to back it up. Maybe she was drunk? Who knows, but I can’t imagine a person denying their home to a woman and two small kids in the middle of a raging storm.


10 posted on 11/01/2012 1:33:47 PM PDT by Professional
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To: ChoobacKY
Read the story in the NY Post. The man didn't hear anyone outside his door and was already sheltering 30 of his neighbors on the second floor. http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/staten_island/body_found_in_si_during_search_for_RXpZRBa9kwODhMb9tWBZYL
11 posted on 11/01/2012 1:34:15 PM PDT by TopDog2
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To: ChoobacKY; Red Badger
Or perhaps that man had helpless people in his home depending on him for survival in the storm, and agreeing to commit suicide would have been a dereliction of his duties.

The mother did not dive into the flood waters herself as far as we know, but went looking for a random stranger to do it for her.

There are aspects of this story that are probably not at all apparent from this article.

12 posted on 11/01/2012 1:35:03 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: Professional

Yes, now that I have heard 2 different versions of this, not sure everything is as it seems. I think I read that she spent all night outside in the storm, knocking on doors.


13 posted on 11/01/2012 1:37:01 PM PDT by NEMDF
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To: Professional
I can’t imagine a person denying their home to a woman and two small kids in the middle of a raging storm

Your sense of smell is accurate.

She told police that a wave hit her car and it died, so she took her kids out of the car and put them on the roof. Then a wave came and swept them off the roof, at which point she went to look for help to find someone who would swim out into the darkness to find them.

14 posted on 11/01/2012 1:38:32 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: GoodDay

I totally agree. He should be brought up on charges. I think NY has laws about giving aid to others when disasters happen. I’m not sure, but I thought I read that they had a “good Samaritan” type law on the books or something.

Either way, this man is partly responsible for the deaths of these children.


15 posted on 11/01/2012 1:38:51 PM PDT by History Repeats (sic transit gloria mundi)
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To: Joe 6-pack

You should read ayn rand before being critical. Altruism was not what the problem was in this situation. Have another beer.


16 posted on 11/01/2012 1:39:39 PM PDT by DWC (historian)
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To: Joe 6-pack
Of course, Ayn Rand devotees would have a hard time criticizing the guy, since there was nothing in it for him.

Ayn Rand didn't have a problem with personal charity. She simply warned that it was often wasted on people who became addicted to it.

She was emphatically opposed to coerced charity, however.

17 posted on 11/01/2012 1:40:46 PM PDT by Steely Tom (If the Constitution can be a living document, I guess a corporation can be a person.)
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To: Joe 6-pack
This must be one more example of New Yorkers rushing to each others' aid in the time of crisis.

You actually don't know if that what it "must be."

But we do know that your post was yet another gratuitous knock on New Yorkers - motivated, I'm sure, by a deep sense of charity.

18 posted on 11/01/2012 1:40:51 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: TopDog2

A working link to the New York Post article...

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/staten_island/body_found_in_si_during_search_for_RXpZRBa9kwODhMb9tWBZYL

TO: All
If you copy a URL like the above into the reply box, it will automatically be made into a clickable link, but only if no HTML code is used.


19 posted on 11/01/2012 1:44:13 PM PDT by deks ("...the battle of our time is the battle of liberty against the overreach of the federal government")
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To: wideawake

Like KKK girl, I’m thinking we’ll hear a follow up to this story soon.


20 posted on 11/01/2012 1:45:12 PM PDT by Professional
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To: History Repeats
He should be brought up on charges.

Hmm.

Say there was a natural disaster and you had family members who could not fend for themselves and depended on you for survival.

Say the natural disaster was just beginning and you had no idea how things would turn out.

Then say that a random stranger showed up at your doorstep and said: "You don't know me, but I have two small kids and they were swept away into the flood. I'm not out there swimming in the flood looking for them right now, because I was hoping you would do that for me instead. So, do me a favor and abandon your family in the iddle of this disaster and go take care of my family now, please."

Then say that you decided from now on to stop posting without thinking.

21 posted on 11/01/2012 1:45:13 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: deks

I put the HTML code in there. Sorry...

BTW, this story stinks to high heaven IMHO...


22 posted on 11/01/2012 1:45:47 PM PDT by TopDog2
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To: wideawake
"You actually don't know if that what it "must be.""

I know for a fact what was reported in the article. If it is in error, then your problem is with the reporter.

"But we do know that your post was yet another gratuitous knock on New Yorkers- motivated, I'm sure, by a deep sense of charity."

Actually, it was motivated by a deep sympathy for the mother and the children, who I suspect are also New Yorkers.

23 posted on 11/01/2012 1:47:43 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Professional

This will unravel as soon as the cops begin to ask some questions, like “which house was it?”. What did they look like, etc....

Not the most rotten person in the world would do this, and yes, a person would wonder if they were criminally liable for their safety.

That said, my deepest condolences and thoughts regarding the two children. And unless the woman actually murdered the children, my heart goes out to her too, because losing a child by stupidity or negligence would be a guilt that nobody could bear. May God be holding these children now, and may they be free of pain for eternity.


24 posted on 11/01/2012 1:49:23 PM PDT by Professional
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To: History Repeats; GoodDay

Before you indict anyone, it might be a good idea to get the facts in the incident.


25 posted on 11/01/2012 1:49:52 PM PDT by deks ("...the battle of our time is the battle of liberty against the overreach of the federal government")
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To: Joe 6-pack
If it is in error, then your problem is with the reporter.

The reporter, if reliable, can only report the portion of the story that they can attribute.

It is up to the reader to use critical thinking when reading the article.

26 posted on 11/01/2012 1:50:27 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: Steely Tom
"Ayn Rand didn't have a problem with personal charity."

Yes, she "saw nothing wrong with it." How virtuous. She did resist the idea that there was such a notion as a "moral duty," however, particularly when it conflicted with one's self interest.

27 posted on 11/01/2012 1:51:24 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Red Badger

I wonder why the woman waited so long to evacuate? The storm surge was already there if a wave knocked her car off the road and another wave took the boys.


28 posted on 11/01/2012 1:51:47 PM PDT by Ditter
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To: Red Badger

Moore knocked on a man’s door for help but he said no and turned her away?...

What was his name?


29 posted on 11/01/2012 1:53:55 PM PDT by AngelesCrestHighway
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To: Professional
According to the article posted downthread, an individual identified only as "the grandfather" said that the mother spent the entire night on the doorstep of that house (presumably the one from which she was "turned away") crying for help.

In other words, that is what the "the grandfather" was told by the mother.

So, if we are to believe the family, the mother spent the entire night through the storm on a doorstep, rather than turning back to look for her children.

That, in itself, is curious.

I'd like to know more.

30 posted on 11/01/2012 1:55:26 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: History Repeats

There is no law requiring people to help others unless they are docs and nurses.


31 posted on 11/01/2012 1:57:42 PM PDT by Chickensoup (STOP The Great O-ppression)
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To: Professional
I'll withhold comment until I see all the facts in this case.

The original story that was reported the other day was that this woman drove her car or SUV through a flooded section of roadway and it crapped out on her. Considering that a big portion of Staten Island is part of the "Flood Zone A" area that was subject to evacuation orders even before the storm began, I'm wondering if she tried to leave her home long after the storm surge had already inundated the area.

32 posted on 11/01/2012 1:58:30 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: wideawake
"It is up to the reader to use critical thinking when reading the article."

So the reporter and the woman who lost two kids are lying?

33 posted on 11/01/2012 1:58:30 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: History Repeats

There is no law requiring people to help others unless they are docs and nurses. And that is only for helath care, not to take people in or resue them from waters. No one is required to put their life on the line for others.

Yet


34 posted on 11/01/2012 1:58:39 PM PDT by Chickensoup (STOP The Great O-ppression)
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To: wideawake; deks

Yes, you are correct that I should have read more than just this one article.

If the situation were as listed in this one, where the woman asked for help and was turned away with her children, then I would still say that the person who turned them away was wrong.

I know if it were me and I answered the door and a woman with two small children were needing my help I would give it. My family would make sure of that.

I’ll hold judgement until all the facts are out.


35 posted on 11/01/2012 2:01:51 PM PDT by History Repeats (sic transit gloria mundi)
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To: History Repeats

I believe the legal term for that is “depraved indifference.”


36 posted on 11/01/2012 2:03:03 PM PDT by Ax ("Bring the Pipes together for the Risin' o' the Moon.")
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To: History Repeats
Right. But this is the only media report I've seen in the last two days indicating that this woman ever made it to a doorstep with her two children.

I'm not going to sit here and call her "Susan Smith," but there's something about this particular story that simply doesn't make sense -- especially in the context of the previous reports about what happened to her kids.

37 posted on 11/01/2012 2:07:46 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested.")
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To: Red Badger

Did she knock on the door at GWB’s house?
just kidding. . .


38 posted on 11/01/2012 2:12:14 PM PDT by ▀udda▀udd (>> F U B O << "What the hell kind of country is this if I can only hate a man if he's white?")
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To: Alberta's Child

I see your point, but as I said I’ll keep up with the story and see what comes out before I give my opinion again.

What ever the case may be, those two children are dead and that is horrific. I pray for the souls of those who died in this storm.


39 posted on 11/01/2012 2:13:29 PM PDT by History Repeats (sic transit gloria mundi)
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To: Joe 6-pack
So the reporter and the woman who lost two kids are lying?

The reporter can only relay what is learned from people who claim to have first hand knowledge.

If that information is inaccurate, that is not necessarily the reporter's fault, nor is the reporter lying.

The woman's story is, when you examine what we have told, very strange.

Is she lying? Not necessarily.

When I am told that a woman put her two kids on the roof of a car that had already been swamped by waves, that the kids unsurprisingly were swept away by another wave, that the mother went looking for help rather than go in after them, that she was denied help and decided to sit on a doorstep all night rather than go in after them, well - I feel like I need more details before I say that someone definitely refused a desperate woman help. Especially when I learn that the man being accused was sheltering various neighbors from the storm.

40 posted on 11/01/2012 2:16:17 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake
I'll admit, my remarks were based on this story alone; this is the first account I'd read and I hadn't seen the alternate stories. Given that, I'll revise my remarks:

If the account in this story is true, the man who turned her and her children away is beneath contempt.

41 posted on 11/01/2012 2:21:44 PM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: Alberta's Child; History Repeats; Joe 6-pack
Well, the CBS story implies that the children were in her arms when she was seeking shelter.

The Post story says that she had her two kids on the roof of her car and that her car was then washed away.

J6P, which one of these reporters, in your opinion is lying?

Or has the mother told two completely different stories?

Or has "the fog of war" descended on the details?

I agree with AC, there is something here that is very fishy either with the reportage or with the story being reported.

42 posted on 11/01/2012 2:22:18 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: Joe 6-pack

Fair enough. I read this post after I wrote post 42.


43 posted on 11/01/2012 2:23:10 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: Red Badger

The article I read said the children were swept away and then she asked for help.

I am so sorry for this family, but how many days of warning did they get before the storm hit?

Not a big fan of stupid.


44 posted on 11/01/2012 2:23:39 PM PDT by mom4melody
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To: GoodDay
I hold that man responsible for the death of those children.

Let me give you an alternate scenario, which might change your mind.

Suppose the man opens his door and lets the woman and her children in. Then, a few minutes later, three of her thug boyfriends show up and she forcibly opens the door a crack and they force their way in.

They proceed to perform a horrific home invasion, and since all law enforcement is preoccupied with the storm, there is no hope of rescue for the man, nor even a hope of justice, as evidence is washed away by the storm.

I have personally been scammed by low-lifes using children as props.

It could even have been the plan in this case, except the storm thwarted her by sweeping away the children before the thugs showed up.

Everything in life is not what it seems on the surface.

45 posted on 11/01/2012 2:29:04 PM PDT by CurlyDave
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To: Professional

This story smells to high heaven.


46 posted on 11/01/2012 2:32:52 PM PDT by stanne
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To: mom4melody
All the people involved were in the vicinity of 400 Fr. Capodanno Blvd when the storm hit.

This occurred at 6pm Monday, well after the surge began and right at the time Sandy made landfall.

For those unfamiliar, that location is on the ocean-facing side of the island. It is maybe 250 feet from the boardwalk of a duneless beach. There is zero natural barrier between the ocean and the road.

You could not have picked a worse time or a worse place to be driving than there.

There shouldn't have been anyone in those houses at all, they are almost all ranch style homes.

It is amazing to me that the children were found so close by, I would have assumed that they were swept out to sea.

Poor little guys.

47 posted on 11/01/2012 2:39:48 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: Joe 6-pack
Of course, Ayn Rand devotees would have a hard time criticizing the guy, since there was nothing in it for him.

I'm re-reading The fountain Head. You should find a copy and read the account of the initial meeting between the protagonist, Roark and the sculptor Steve Mallory and why it is that Roark helps him.

Boiled down; the reason Ayn Rand "followers" would help this lady and her children (or anyone else for that matter) is not because of pity, but because the human spirit to "live" is amongst the highest and best of values and virtue.

Now there will be those who are familiar with the character Mallory who will say "but Mallory had given up the will to live - doesn't that contradict?". True. But Mallory possessed something else of value - namely that he was perhaps one of the best sculptors in the world. Thus, Roark helped him out of his own self-interest - namely he needed the best sculpture he could get.

So how does does one tie these together? Again, Rand posits that life - and the desire to live it to it's fullest is a virtue. Also, ability - and the love of ones work is also a virtue.

Where Rand or one of here devotees might NOT lift a finger to help someone is: 1. that someone is not interested in living (either for their own enjoyment or their own purpose). 2. they are actively squandering their ability to produce and are instead seeking to "loot" both life (the will to live autonomously) and goods from those who do produce.

48 posted on 11/01/2012 2:59:39 PM PDT by jonno (Having an opinion is not the same as having the answer...)
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To: Joe 6-pack
Yes, she "saw nothing wrong with it." How virtuous. She did resist the idea that there was such a notion as a "moral duty," however, particularly when it conflicted with one's self interest.

Well, she didn't belive in God, so she couldn't prove the necessity/value of a moral duty.

This is a huge gap in her philosophical system.

I think of as being kind of like calculus.

In calculus, you learn how to calculate the load on a parabolic dam, for example. No real dam is a perfect parabola, though... because no real dam site will accomodate a perfect parabola.

That doesn't mean calculus is useless for calculating the load on an actual dam. It simply means that finite-element means must be used to account for all the detailed forces on a real dam, and calculus is used on each element separately. Computer power is used to come up with an actual value for the force, but the computer is just acting as an accounting device.

My personal theory is that Ayn Rand eliminated God from her thinking for the same reason that a calculus textbooks analyze only highly simplified cases, like parabolic dams. They oversimplify the real world, but they do so to introduce the student to a very useful way of thinking, useful in its own right.

Obviously, we can't know how God felt about this. I'm glad I wasn't in Ms. Rand's place when I had to face Him on 6 March 1982.

49 posted on 11/01/2012 3:02:34 PM PDT by Steely Tom (If the Constitution can be a living document, I guess a corporation can be a person.)
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To: TopDog2

I knew of I scrolled down I was going to get a better picture of the story.

Still, it’ll probably haunt him that he could have helped one more but was unable.


50 posted on 11/01/2012 3:23:24 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously, you won't live through it anyway)
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