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Agonizing Reappraisal-Done Right!
vanity | November 7, 2012 | Nathan Bedford

Posted on 11/06/2012 10:42:38 PM PST by nathanbedford

The loss of this presidential election under these economic circumstances is so appalling that it raises existential questions about the Republican Party and the future of conservatism in America. With unemployment through the roof, with housing through the floor, with nearly 50,000,000 people on food stamps, with the government hemorrhaging money and the debt soaring, the Republican Party must ask itself, if we cannot win today can we ever win?

It is important to identify the reasons for this epic fail so that the conservative movement can go on. The first item of business is to distinguish between failure which can be blamed on the quality of the candidate or the mechanics of the campaign and a failure which represents a fatal disconnect with the people of America.

We are now in for a season of second-guessing Romney and the strategy of the campaign. This is inevitable and necessary but it is important that we do it constructively, it is important that it be done right.

We will hear many assertions: the acrimonious primary season inflicted wounds on ourselves which gave Obama a head start; Romney tactically left the field open to Obama after he clinched the nomination and Obama simply painted Romney negatively by carpet bombing him with television ads; Romney funneled his campaign strategy too narrowly, both geographically and philosophically-that is, Romney was too late going to Wisconsin, too late going to Pennsylvania, and Romney narrowed the focus of his campaign to economic issues only, thus conceding all other issues to Obama; Obama was thus able, with the support of a complicit media, to raise strawmen issues which were in many respects preposterous yet they forced Romney on the defensive and blunted his message on the economy; Romney picked the wrong vice presidential candidate, he should have picked Marco Rubio and he would have made inroads into the Hispanic vote and the failure to do so cost him the election; the selection of Paul Ryan was the physical embodiment of an abandonment of a campaign addressing the demographic realities of America to concentrate on a campaign of economic issues; the Romney campaign worked at cross purposes in the selection of Paul Ryan of Wisconsin when it coupled that choice with a failure heavily to campaign in Wisconsin-if the decision was to campaign almost exclusively on economic issues with Paul Ryan, that implied an all out campaign in Wisconsin which was never really undertaken until too late; the campaign ignored vulnerabilities and failed to exploit opportunities to wit: it lost the women's vote along with the Hispanic vote over bogus issues of abortion and birth control by failing to fight back and failing to present a credible female spokesperson and it failed to exploit Benghazi; the campaign made these errors of omission because of its fundamental mistake to concentrate on economic issues; Romney performed brilliantly in the first debate, even contriving to offset the advantage Obama had derived from his negative air war, but fatally decided to play it safe in the second and third debates and surrendered the momentum to Obama-and the failure to exploit Benghazi is the principle example of this failure of conception a shift nd execution; hurricane Sandy entered dues ex machine and, coupled with the treachery of Christie, gave the momentum back to Obama who have been cruising toward a loss.

Other second-guessers, probably featuring Rush Limbaugh prominently among them, will focus on the biography of Romney and maintain that the key failure was to nominate a Rino who cannot win but conservatives can win. The difficulty with this analysis is that the Republican Party clearly coalesced behind Romney after the first debate.

Others will avert to Romney's original assessment of the political landscape, that 47% of the population is lost to the Republican cause and the Republican candidate must concentrate on the remaining 53%. This is another way of casting the age-old tension between conservatives and Rinos because the Rinos solution, which was Romney's solution, is to focus exclusively on economic issues and run a white bread campaign. This means that Romney presented himself to be reassuring to independents, to women, as especially single women. The conservative rejoinder, of course, is that a passive stance in which one achieves a neutral nonaggressive posture, nonthreatening to women, is not a winning stance which must come from a more aggressive issue oriented campaign driving home conservatives truths. But wait! We run such a campaign and the Democrats counter with race. The truth which we must face is that we have not found the solution to this demagoguery.

Others will point to the media and say that it is almost impossible for a Republican to win nationally against the Democrat especially when the media will do everything short of committing murder to support a black president. There is a lot of truth in this but to acknowledge the reality is not to provide the solution. Conservatives want an aggressive campaign such as that conducted by Newt Gingrich in the primaries against the media as well as an aggressive campaign against the Democrats. Romney decided to simply absorb much of the media bias and ignore the issue to death, much as he attempted to deal with the gender gap. I observed at the time that as a conservative I want a crusade against Obama and Romney was running a campaign. In the event, we got neither.

Mechanics, or "architects" if you prefer, such as Karl Rove will tell us whether we failed on the ground or in the air. When Karl Rove ran the ground campaign in Ohio he prevailed. We were assured this time that our ground game in Ohio was far superior to 2004. We had evidence that our ground game in Wisconsin was superior to what the Democrats could muster in three previous statewide elections. Yet we failed. My problem is that I credit Karl Rove with the ability accurately to diagnose the problem but I am wary of his politics. I am satisfied with Rush Limbaugh's politics, but I am dubious of his ability to understand the nuts and bolts of the mechanical apparatus. This is important because ultimately we must accept that this election is so devastating under these circumstances that we must submit to an agonizing reappraisal of our basic politics and not seek rationalizations in the mechanics. Was this election a perfect storm of minor mistakes, bad weather, poor ground game, and media bias that caused America to cruise toward its own destruction or is there simply no denying the obvious, the Republican Party is not succeeding as a messenger for conservatism and conservatism has not crafted a message which works with the public?

Consider how we were handcuffed in this election. We are in a political world in which Obama could blatantly play the race card without any negative consequences. We can review the entire administration of Attorney General Eric holder or we can simply look at Obama's transparent grab for Hispanic votes with amnesty to see how cynically he has governed and campaigned. Normally every political decision, like YING and Yang, has an upside and a downside but there seems to have been no downside to Obama in playing the race card. Where was the blowback among white voters? How can Elizabeth Warren, for example, be exposed for fraudulently advancing herself by claiming American Indian heritage at the expense of honest white job applicants, and suffer no identifiable loss at the polls? Are we as a society destined to be Balkanized by the Democrat party playing sex against sex and race against race to its selfish electoral advantage but to the destruction of the country? Why were we so ineffective in making the world see the world the way we see it? We see the world hurtling toward a fiscal cliff and the destruction of our prosperity. Obama wins the election not by addressing the massive deficit which is turning America into Greece but by handing out birth control pills like Halloween candy. How did it happen that Obama ran the campaign on his terms and not on reality-at least reality as we see it? Why did small ball win?

Is it that we fail to see the world as it really is? Are we wrong and the people who vote their gender, their color, their tribe, their purse, right? No! Our conservative worldview is the right worldview and the leftist worldview is wrong. That is not up for discussion among conservatives. But it is the way of political folly to blame the electorate for one's failure at the polls no matter how easy the temptation. It is easy to say that women who are voting their vaginas are condemning their children to penury but they did not hear us say so or, if they did, they did not heed us. We spent $1 billion and still could not convince them of our view of the world. We are in a game of politics to gain political power and govern according to our world view. When we fail to win, we fail utterly. The real question is why could we not win against a demonstrably failed president with failed policies who ran a racist campaign, a sexist campaign, and played small ball on every issue when we had $1 billion, a squeaky clean candidate, the House of Representatives, the majority of governorships and state legislatures, and the best economic statistics since Franklin Roosevelt?

Before we take refuge in blaming the electorate we should look in the mirror. Before we look for easy answers by blaming Romney, by blaming the media, by blaming tactical decisions such as the selection of Paul Ryan with which we agreed at the time, we should look long and hard into the mirror.

Perhaps we went wrong last cycle in blaming the loss on John McCain. Perhaps there is a dimension to the electorate that we simply do not understand. I posted long and hard at the time that John McCain would lose the election unless he morally destroyed Barack Obama and depicted him to be the Marxist that he was. Many of us in the beginning of this election season questioned whether Romney was correct in attacking Obama is "incompetent" rather than as a radical leftist. When the campaign appeared to be prevailing, I withdrew the criticism. I think we have to thoroughly examine the issue whether we can ever beat a Democrat candidate without personally destroying him. This is not cynical, this is only to bring a gun to a gunfight. So far, in the last two election cycles our campaigns have failed to take Obama on for his radicalism, probably because of fear of his race.We all know a demographic tsunami is about to engulf conservatism. We must decide how to cope with the threat. Do we cope by destroying our opponent the way attempted to destroy Romney or do we cope by pandering to African-Americans, or do we find a Marco Rubio to ingratiate us with Hispanics? Can we run successfully as conservatives by ignoring race as Romney attempted to do?

Before we take refuge in disdain for the electorate and find sour grapes satisfaction by saying they deserve to suffer in the implosion which we believe will come, we should figure out how to compete and win. Remember, it is human nature to rationalize failure by blaming others. Remember also that it is human nature to try to cure failed socialism with more socialism. That is the real reason why Obama was reelected. The electorate does not associate the great recession with government action, rather it associates salvation from the recession with government intervention. The electorate does not believe that government insistence on granting mortgages to risky homebuyers helped precipitate the great recession. They have come to believe that the government should step in to protect mortgagors who are underwater. The electorate wants more socialism to fix failed socialism. We lost the argument.

Unless we fix what is wrong we will lose it again and again until there is nothing left in America to save.

We are running out of time, we are running out of money, and we are running out of white people. This election forces conservatism into a race against the forces of Obamaism to fix itself in time to win the next election before we are bankrupted or engulfed. Either way we lose not just our prosperity but our liberty.


TOPICS: Editorial; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: postmortem2012; vanity
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1 posted on 11/06/2012 10:42:40 PM PST by nathanbedford
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To: nathanbedford
1. recognize that 50% of our fellow voters are stupid.
2. message accordingly.
3. stop fighting like a girl and go for the jugular.
2 posted on 11/06/2012 10:46:52 PM PST by Chgogal (Obama helped murder US Navy SEALs.)
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To: nathanbedford

Too wordy.

It’s very simple.

Moderate to liberal GOP candidates for President don’t win.

Romney, with his horrible record as Governor and his support for Abortion and the Gay Agenda and with no clear, consistent limited government message was bound to lose.


3 posted on 11/06/2012 10:47:33 PM PST by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency.)
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To: nathanbedford

bttt


4 posted on 11/06/2012 10:48:18 PM PST by Wpin ("I Have Sworn Upon the Altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny...")
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To: SoConPubbie

right.


5 posted on 11/06/2012 10:49:27 PM PST by GeronL (http://asspos.blogspot.com)
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To: Chgogal

The Occupiers had their occupation. It would be a real hoot if all taxpayers showed up at the welfare offices across the nation on the same day and applied for food stamps. LOL!


6 posted on 11/06/2012 10:49:42 PM PST by FlingWingFlyer (REVENGE wins.)
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To: nathanbedford

This is a long game now. We’ve conceded the media, academia (including public schools and higher ed) and vast segments of the culture to the left. The same left that spent 40+ years taking over the aforesaid institutions. We need to be patient, and start immediately taking over these institutions at the grassroots.


7 posted on 11/06/2012 10:49:50 PM PST by Behind Liberal Lines
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To: nathanbedford
I have a really weird numb feeling , not anger , more like the shock of seeing major trauma

I was trying to place the feeling and now realize its the same feeling I had when rolling up on tragic traffic accidents with death and dismemberment

really weird feeling , somber , shocked, greivously agitated , a feeling of fear

8 posted on 11/06/2012 10:50:05 PM PST by KTM rider
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To: nathanbedford

If you run a candidate who is Liberal/Left against the same - the greater Liberal/Leftist will win.

In the case of yesterday - a Liberal Democrat lost to a Marxist.

Plain and simple.


9 posted on 11/06/2012 10:53:14 PM PST by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: nathanbedford

“We are running out of time . . ..”

No. We have run out of time.

Oldplayer


10 posted on 11/06/2012 10:53:29 PM PST by oldplayer
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To: KTM rider

It is a huge loss, no use pretending otherwise.

But no one lies down and dies. That’s the biggest loss. We must fight for our country until we are no longer able. If not nationally, locally. Personally. Within the family. At the city level. Etc. We will only win if we do not give up.


11 posted on 11/06/2012 10:53:29 PM PST by Persevero (Homeschooling for Excellence since 1992)
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To: SoConPubbie

Agreed.


12 posted on 11/06/2012 10:55:14 PM PST by Psalm 144 (See Psalm 2 for final election results.)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

“We’ve conceded the media, academia (including public schools and higher ed) and vast segments of the culture to the left.”

That’s right. When even conservatives send their kids to secular public schools and liberal colleges, we can’t be so surprised when they grow up to be liberals.

It also doesn’t help that election day comes right after Halloween instead of after Thanksgiving.


13 posted on 11/06/2012 10:56:21 PM PST by ari-freedom
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To: Wpin

a tea party baby boom?

I am all in.


14 posted on 11/06/2012 10:56:21 PM PST by urbanpovertylawcenter (where the law and poverty collide in an urban setting and sparks fly)
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To: SoConPubbie

Are you crazy?
Look at what happened tonite to Mourdouk and Akin in heavily Republican states. We lost taking the Senate because of the “no compromise, go for the jugglar” bs you spout. Romney lost because his campaign blew and because Evangelicals did not rally behind him because he’s flipped across the map. However a too far right candidate is not going to win. Right of center yes but too far right not gonna happen. Rubio or Jeb Bush in 2016. Walsh from Illinois lost, West and Bachmann may lose. See a pattern?


15 posted on 11/06/2012 10:56:29 PM PST by GerardKempf (Let's Get Over This)
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To: nathanbedford

I remember feeling this way under Carter. Depressed about the future of America, disappointed in our people.

Then Reagan happened and my faith in human beings was restored.

I still have that.

All we need is another Reagan.

:)

Heck, it’s been thirty years. We’re due.


16 posted on 11/06/2012 10:56:34 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: nathanbedford

When I read “the Republican Party and the future of conservatism in America” I say see ya later, the two are not the same.


17 posted on 11/06/2012 10:56:53 PM PST by Ray76
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To: nathanbedford

This election was rigged. None of the signs were pointing to a whipping like Romney got. Michelle Bachman may lose, for God’s sake. Tommy Tompson lost after Walker won handily in a recall just last year. The turn out was heavy but there was no sign that it was 50-50. I truly believe every close state was rigged. As it became apparent I told my wife “Watch what happens. They’ll give obama some votes. Then they’ll give Romney some votes. And they’ll do this and keep it close as long as they can. Then they’ll give it to obama.”

I was sucked into the Bush 2000 phony vote fiasco in Florida. That was to make us think that every vote counts.

Then I got sucked into voting for mccain because of Palin. They needed her on the ticket to at least make it a little closer. Nobody would have believed a muslim would win that handily over a war hero.

Now I got sucked into thinking “Romney is a good man. Surely enough people will see that.” I sent him $35 two nights ago. Once again, I was fooled. It will never happe again.


18 posted on 11/06/2012 10:57:47 PM PST by Terry Mross (Once again I wasted my vote. But I have learned my lesson.)
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To: nathanbedford

The Republican Party replaced the Whigs and it has become the Whigs. The GOP has no principles except to have no principles.

If they can’t beat this America-hating tyrant in these circumstances, the Republican Party needs to have a going out of business sale and shut the doors so a real opposition with some backbone can rise up.

But then, conservatives might have a real vehicle to advance our ideas. The RINO Establishment will never permit that.


19 posted on 11/06/2012 10:57:56 PM PST by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: nathanbedford

I’m not sure if you conveniently attribute the “mistakes” of Romney’s campaign in that long paragraph to others, or simply predicting the lame analyses to appear in the coming days and weeks and to freeze in history books for the foreseeable future. No matter. In my opinion, no GOP candidate could have won. It was Romney vs Obama-Main-Sewer-Media. It was Romney vs the 47%, vs the OJ Jury nation, vs Dancing with the Starlets.


20 posted on 11/06/2012 10:58:22 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious!)
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To: nathanbedford

This is what happens when you nominate the electable candidate.


21 posted on 11/06/2012 10:58:35 PM PST by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: ari-freedom

It also doesn’t help that election day comes right after Halloween instead of after Thanksgiving.

+++++++++++++++++++++

Election Day on April 15 would work magic....


22 posted on 11/06/2012 10:59:15 PM PST by kevao (Hey, Obama: The 1930s called, they want their economic policy back.)
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To: GerardKempf
Look at what happened tonite to Mourdouk and Akin in heavily Republican states. We lost taking the Senate because of the “no compromise, go for the jugglar” bs you spout. Romney lost because his campaign blew and because Evangelicals did not rally behind him because he’s flipped across the map. However a too far right candidate is not going to win. Right of center yes but too far right not gonna happen. Rubio or Jeb Bush in 2016. Walsh from Illinois lost, West and Bachmann may lose. See a pattern?

And who helped Akin lose tonight?

The same Pretend Republicans you are defending.

They turned their backs on him for a stupid comment.

Not because it was all that bad, but because they disagreed with him on his positions on Pro-Life and conservatism in general.

If they had not done that, Akin would have won.

Neither Jeb Bush or Rubio has a chance in Hell in 2016 because they are both Amnesty Queens.

We already had that with McCain, and you saw what that got us.

Either give us a conservative like Reagan, who fought for all aspects of conservatism, Moral, Fiscal, and military, or you'll get the same result.

No more Pretend conservatives.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, failing, but expecting to get different results.

Put up someone with the obvious and severe flaws in their conservatism like Jeb Bush or Rubio, and you are doomed to failure.
23 posted on 11/06/2012 11:02:00 PM PST by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency.)
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To: SoConPubbie
his support for Abortion and the Gay Agenda and with no clear, consistent limited government message was bound to lose.

I don't know what election you were watching, but Romney didn't lose on the issues of abortion and gays. If anything Obama won by the pro-aborts and gay marriage folks. And a blind armadillo could see that Obama is the big government choice.

We certainly could have had a stronger candidate - I don't know who that would have been among those who ran - but only the politically stupid conservative would not vote for Romney on those issues.

24 posted on 11/06/2012 11:02:15 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: INVAR

In the case of yesterday - a Liberal Democrat lost to a Marxist.

It’s not so simple for these reasons:
1) tough on illegals (compare with McCain and Perry) and that turns off hispanics
2) “47%” was the fiscal version of Akin’s comments
3) hard to be against unions and auto bailouts in Ohio
4) a libertarian stand on FEMA doesn’t help after Sandy

But if Romney was more conservative on the issue that counts, Romneycare, he probably wouldn’t have to prove his credentials with these edge cases.


25 posted on 11/06/2012 11:02:53 PM PST by ari-freedom
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To: nathanbedford

My priest told me six months ago that it would be hard to elect Romney when 52% of the people receive a check when 48% pay for it. Beware of timely jokes...as the joke of the day was that the Romney supporter signed the front of the check and the Obama supporter signed the back of the check. These are truisms and I mourn the fate of our country. But what can you expect? Sixty years of NEA teachers have indoctrinated marginal students...no economics...socialist spin on history...no math...all lead to a stupid electorate, but not so dumb that they don’t know how to max the system. A stupid, stupid Supreme Court judge who lets Obamacare stand...people who say the number one problem is the economy, bush’s fault, and they re-elect this ass...dumb, dumb, dumb.....


26 posted on 11/06/2012 11:03:03 PM PST by MHT
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To: TBP

“If they can’t beat this America-hating tyrant in these circumstances...”

Exactly. And they will thwart attempts to do so. They have no intention of crushing the Dems. None whatsoever.

They are worse than worthless. They are our enemy’s friend.


27 posted on 11/06/2012 11:04:19 PM PST by Ray76
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To: nathanbedford

I think it is as simple as the takers out number the producers.

We’ve reached critical mass and there’s no going back.

The only choice now is hunker down and try to survive the coming storm.


28 posted on 11/06/2012 11:04:30 PM PST by DB
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To: nathanbedford
I posted this in another thread but it applies just as well here.

The problem is the majority wants their free shit and they don't care where it comes from. This problem is insurmountable. We will have to go through pure unadulterated hell and decades of unimaginable pain before it can be turned around. We have turned the corner from a constitutional representative republic to a make it up as you go parasitic socialist nightmare.

God help us.

29 posted on 11/06/2012 11:05:30 PM PST by Drill Thrawl (I can haz CW 2 now?)
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To: Terry Mross

The $800 billion stimulus went into the pockets of Obama supporters, and came out for victory tonight.


30 posted on 11/06/2012 11:06:29 PM PST by karnage
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To: D-fendr


Do you really think that if Romney had not come out in support of Abortion and the Gay Agenda that the election would have turned out like it did?

Do you really believe that conservatives in general would not have had such a lack-luster feeling for Romney, even aversion because of his history and his issue positions if he had actually acted like a conservative and taken conservative positions?

Do you really believe that a completely energized base, not acting our of fear of Obama, but out of support for a candidate that actually represented them, wdould not have made a major difference in the GOTV and in convincing everyone to vote for Romney?

He isn't a conservative, he did not run as a conservative, he depressed the vote.
31 posted on 11/06/2012 11:07:47 PM PST by SoConPubbie (Mitt and Obama: They're the same poison, just a different potency.)
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To: nathanbedford
deTocqueville and the 47%ers (conveniently budgeted out by target market by geography) + left-wing, dishonest press + voter fraud + disengaged electorate.
32 posted on 11/06/2012 11:08:37 PM PST by grey_whiskers (The opinions are solely those of the author and are subject to change without notice.)
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To: Behind Liberal Lines

I agree with Behind Liberal Lines. Conservatives have no long term strategies to dominate these institutions. Why not apply the principles they have used to beat them at their own game. We already know what they are but Conservatives, for whatever reason fail to execute successfully like the left has over these last forty years. It won’t simply sink us to their level to use their techniques, because our philosophy of conservatism is good and just. Theirs is corrupt to it’s core.

Turning the Hispanic population over to mostly conservative is a good, long term goal. Why don’t we start there.


33 posted on 11/06/2012 11:08:54 PM PST by Al Gore Vidal
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To: GerardKempf

“West and Bachmann may lose. See a pattern?”

They made red meat statements that turned off others. But even more moderate Republicans lost. Obama and MSM knew what they were doing and that’s what gets the other Dems along with him.


34 posted on 11/06/2012 11:12:52 PM PST by ari-freedom
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To: ari-freedom

Appealing to all those liberal ‘big tent’ factions guarantees permanent mediocrity and forever losses at the polls to the party of liberal/Socialist/Marxists.

Scripture says ‘My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge” (Hosea 4:6).

We’re a house hopelessly divided, and the curses of Deuteronomy 28 are just beginning.


35 posted on 11/06/2012 11:15:13 PM PST by INVAR ("Fart for liberty, fart for freedom and fart proudly!" - Benjamin Franklin)
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To: SoConPubbie
Do you really believe that conservatives in general would not have had such a lack-luster feeling for Romney..

To hell with lack-luster feelings, or any feelings, when we have a marxist regime in power in America.

Do you really think that if Romney had not come out in support of Abortion and the Gay Agenda

Where do you get that crap? Were you paying attention to the general election campaign at all? Do you know what the president controls on those issues?

I think anybody that cares about abortion that didn't crawl to vote for Romney is stupid.

I think anybody that cares about gay rights that didn't crawl to vote for Romney is stupid.

I think anybody that cares about the growth of government that didn't crawl to vote for Romney is stupid.

It would have been great to see the second incarnation of Ronald Reagan but for conservatives this was a very clear choice.

Either/and Obama was very successful in turning out his stupid people or Romney was not successful in turning out our stupid people.

36 posted on 11/06/2012 11:16:26 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: ari-freedom

You’re right we got punched in mouth tonite. However half of our party being too far right and the other being moderate and not coming to some sort of compromise is only going to assure the Dems of control. Hopefully we’ll learn from this tonite. We can’t continue to alienate differences within the party. Heck the Dems did a good job of meeting in the middle and look what happened?


37 posted on 11/06/2012 11:16:32 PM PST by GerardKempf (Let's Get Over This)
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To: nathanbedford
Look on the bright side. Obama can't blame his predecessor.
38 posted on 11/06/2012 11:18:43 PM PST by GVnana
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To: SoConPubbie; All
Romney, with his horrible record as Governor and his support for Abortion and the Gay Agenda and with no clear, consistent limited government message was bound to lose.

No one questioned his record as Governor. It was a total non issue. The candidate in support of abortion even for babies born alive and for the gay agenda WON so your idea Romney wasn't conservative enough for votes is a pathetic lie.

Romney ran precisely on a limited government message, so another lie.

I seem to recall you were for Santorum, Romney's primary stalking horse. Santorum as nominee would've been a blowout in Obama's favor akin to 1984.

Romney ran a winning campaign but more American voters decided to give the first black president of the United States a second chance. It's as simple as that.

If Romney was against John F. Kerry, Kerry loses handily. Now Kerry will take Hillary's place as Secretary of State.

It is what it is.

39 posted on 11/06/2012 11:18:53 PM PST by newzjunkey
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To: nathanbedford

Part of the problem is that democratic-republicanism wasn’t meant to function with the inputs it’s working with. If we basically have to tell other adults to look both ways before crossing the street or you might get run over by a car, then something organic is wrong with the system. If people care more about weed and gay marriage and free contraceptives than a debt spiral which will bankrupt and destroy our society then there’s little to be done.


40 posted on 11/06/2012 11:20:00 PM PST by garbanzo (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine)
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To: nathanbedford

I applaud and admire your optimism, but must aver.

This was it. The last chance to peaceably work to restore liberty and the Republic. The ballot box, and the soap box have been exhausted. The political options are done. It’s over.

All who love liberty have to face the hard facts: we are down to the third box. The only question before us now is how to honorably do our duty to future generations.

Hope remains, but it is dim indeed.


41 posted on 11/06/2012 11:20:37 PM PST by absalom01 (You should do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, and you should never wish to do less.)
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To: nathanbedford

I applaud and admire your optimism, but must aver.

This was it. The last chance to peaceably work to restore liberty and the Republic. The ballot box, and the soap box have been exhausted. The political options are done. It’s over.

All who love liberty have to face the hard facts: we are down to the third box. The only question before us now is how to honorably do our duty to future generations.

Hope remains, but it is dim indeed.


42 posted on 11/06/2012 11:20:37 PM PST by absalom01 (You should do your duty in all things. You cannot do more, and you should never wish to do less.)
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To: nathanbedford

>>>>Is it that we fail to see the world as it really is?

I don’t think it’s a matter of “right” or “wrong.” People vote based on their morality (regardless of how they might rationalize their vote). The morality of most people in the U.S. today is (in a nutshell): “I need; I want; I deserve; therefore, everyone else owes me.” I wish I could say that this breaks down according to class or race, but it does not. It cuts across all classes and and all races.

There’s a character in the novel “Atlas Shrugged”; I don’t remember his name, but he was an older executive of a competing company to “Taggart Transcontinental” whom the heroine, Dagny, was trying to exhort to join her in some challenge. He understood the significance of what she was asking of him, but he deeply believed that his own morality was “selfish and wrong” and that the opposing view of the majority was right. Dagny could see that he was defeated before he even began.

One of the networks asked voters, after the fact, why they voted for Obama. The answer was that “he’s the most likely to identify with who we are.” So if we claim that Obama was playing on the mindset of “revenge” and “class warfare,” it means that the typical Obama voter — the majority of the country, it appears — feels the need to take “revenge” on a certain class, most likely “the rich.”

I’ve pointed out the ugly scapegoating aspect of this to some liberals and it doesn’t seem to bother them. “They deserve it”; “they’re getting rich off of our backs”; etc. A number of them believe that “those Republicans are blocking Obama from doing everything he wants to do!” When I hear that, it tells me that they don’t want a republic, they don’t want a constitution, they don’t even really want democracy (except when their majority wins). They want a “strong leader” to take care of them . . . they want a dictator (except they want him to “look cool” and “talk like them”).

This is clearly a very dangerous situation, especially for anyone who values liberty, individualism, economic progress, etc., and the legal/institutional underpinnings of those things: private property, rule of law, objective constitutional constraints on central power.

We know from 20th century history what can happen when the majority of people feel that it’s all right to scapegoat one particular group, and that their troubles will disappear if only they give unlimited freedom to a political leader.

Personally, I don’t believe the U.S. will survive as a European-style welfare state. It simply goes completely “against the grain” in so many ways. I think the U.S. will either balkanize and fracture (geographical and politically, not just culturally), or it will very quickly go the way of Greece and collapse altogether (which, of course, might also lead to balkanization).

Sorry, but I don’t see any silver lining in this.


43 posted on 11/06/2012 11:24:05 PM PST by GoodDay
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To: nathanbedford
Democrats read Machiavelli and Saul Alinsky.

Republicans read Dr. Suess and Judy Blume.

44 posted on 11/06/2012 11:24:38 PM PST by Squeako (The radicals are the wolves. The moderates are the wolves in sheep's clothing.)
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To: Terry Mross

So, okay, I’m seriously asking ... what now? Not fooled again means what — what is the plan now? Really, I’m trying to figure my way forward on this.


45 posted on 11/06/2012 11:26:25 PM PST by JustSurrounded
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To: GerardKempf

What middle? Obama campaigned to the left the entire year and still won. Mitt tried to wrap up the center and lost. The center of gravity is clearly left now.


46 posted on 11/06/2012 11:28:37 PM PST by garbanzo (It's the end of the world as we know it and I feel fine)
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To: absalom01

I’m afraid that’s the conclusion I’ve come to, as well. Sure, on the surface work hard to pressure the House to do the right thing ... sure. But it’s time for stronger measures.

I guess it’s time for the radical conservative version of the weather underground — sons of liberty? — to form up and get busy. Not bombs, but certainly making the ‘system’ feel the pressure.


47 posted on 11/06/2012 11:31:14 PM PST by JustSurrounded
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To: nathanbedford

This election determined the nature of the reset that will occur. There is no way out of the economic box we are in without a deflationary crash or hyperinflation followed by a crash. The reset would have occurred sooner but gentler (gentle only by comparison) under Romney. Republicans would have been blamed for it. Now it will take longer to come and be much more difficult to endure. At that point, it is not clear that assessing blame will be meaningful. Acquiring power and then using it wisely will be meaningful.

Best case, I think strategizing needs to be around the notion of how to recover from the reset with a decent society. This is not dissimilar to the period when Churchill was a voice in the Wilderness before WWII. He was a consistent, derided voice. When the reset came, it was fast and dramatic. I don’t think we can expect such a good result here—I think things have to get much worse than England before WWII before the public is ready to listen to the argument that the modern progressive state IS the problem and we are living through its endgame.

Late night thoughts. They will probably look incoherent tomorrow.


48 posted on 11/06/2012 11:35:20 PM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: newzjunkey
I agree with you. Romney is a good man, would have made a good president, and ran a great campaign. The fact that there are only 500,000 votes between he and Obama speaks volumes.

This country has been split since 1993.

49 posted on 11/06/2012 11:36:34 PM PST by GVnana
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To: JustSurrounded

I’m past sixtie. So I’ll just try to wait it out until I die. Or, I may move to South America. Find me a socialist country that likes Gringos and has good medical care. Basically move to a socialist nation that’s already worked all the kinks out.

And I will not vote for or donate to another republican. I voted for mccain and feel like I wasted my vote. I voted for Romney and feel like I wasted my vote. I marched for W in 2000 during the recount and we see how that worked out.


50 posted on 11/06/2012 11:38:08 PM PST by Terry Mross (Once again I wasted my vote. But I have learned my lesson.)
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