Posted on 11/08/2012 6:05:52 PM PST by JerseyanExile
I'm feeling rather pessimistic today. Call it sour grapes. So pessimistic, in fact, that you might just call it out right doom and gloom. With an outlook on life and politics and the prospects for our country that usually I just laugh at. Not apocalyptic, per se, but something approaching that.
100 years after the Roman Empire fell there was still something lingering around calling itself the "Roman Empire". 500 years after Rome fell, there was something still calling itself the "Roman Empire". Over a thousand years after Rome fell, there were still people around speaking as if their country was really Rome.
In the East, the "Roman Empire" didn't end until 1453 with the fall of Constantinople.
In the West, the "Roman Empire" didn't end until Napoleon's victory at Austerlitz in 1805 over the last "Holy Roman" Emperor.
Farther East and North, the last Caesar ruled until 1917, when Czar (Czar = Caesar in Russian) Nicholas Romanov (= son of the Romans) II abdicated.
That is to say, the fiction of Rome lasted far longer than Rome itself. The idea of Rome being much more powerful than the actuality.
I can't help but wonder if America does ever fall, will the people living through it realize it is gone? That what future "Americans" call "America" will actually just be a fiction created by them as a way for them to try to reclaim some of the greatness that was once this thing called America? And that transition to the new fiction from the old reality will be lost on many who live through it?
And what if that generation is us?
If that is the case, and the America of the future is only related to the America of the past through the fictions we ourselves create, then is there really any hope?
Sure. Think of the Visigoths who sacked Rome, but who 150 years later were living in Gaul speaking Latin. Or better yet, the Ostrogoths who sacked true Rome for the last time, settled down on the Italian peninsula, and taught their children Latin.
100 years after Justinian briefly took Italy back from the Ostrogoths for Eastern Rome, you'd be hard pressed to find any one on the peninsula with even the faintest memory of their Germanic roots.
Further, the Romans didn't just go away. They didn't all die. The new invaders and the old Romans simply ... got on with life. They traded with one another. They lived side by side. They intermarried. Until finally, there were no more Romans and no more barbarians. In their wake they left us the English, the French, the Italians, and so on and so on.
And you know what? The ideas and ideals of Rome were so powerful that they live on today. In us.
As we become more and more like Europe, and less and less like the country that was founded on the principle that we are not Europe, then if there is any hope then it is this: that even as we become more like them, they are becoming more like us.
At some point in the future it will be our ideas which are remembered and venerated. That the fiction of America will long outlast any of its competition. And it will be our children and our children's children which will carry the blood of true America in their veins, even if it is mixed with the blood of those who destroyed the very thing which they will one day idealize.
Maybe this whole analogy is way off. I hope so. Maybe the future has something else completely in store for us. Maybe the next American renaissance is just around the corner. Or maybe we'll all be speaking Chinese.
I really couldn't tell you. But for now my faith is no longer in America continuing as the greatest nation on Earth. I just don't see it happening.
So, dig in and welcome our new barbarian overlords. They are us.
Totally expected outcome from an immoral society. We’re vulnerable to the current pillage and looting from the Barbarians. Watch the scortched earth crowd in action. They party and hand us the bill.
Our only hope will be if the black/Mexican coalition violently breaks apart.
I guess we need to facilitate the Black/ Mexican breakup.
Never forget that the Christian faith—yes, persecuted by the Empire until A.D. 314—ultimately helped preserve the final legacy of the Empire in all of the places and through the individuals you mentioned.
While I wasn’t around in the Roman times, I do know the melding idea in the here and now might not be the same. The America of my youth didn’t have dirty diapers left in parking lot spaces as there are now. The America of my youth didn’t have the foul language, sloppy/stripper look in attire for adults and kids. The America of my youth didn’t have the selfish, me first, give me attitude so previlent today. Maybe all of the above happened with the fall of Rome, but it sure sucks big time now.
They don't, it is and it will be.
...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, ...
When elected officials and bureaucracies act outside the law they are simply lawbreakers. When the majority of the people vote in favor of the lawlessness that has greatly manifested itself in the highest offices they have withdrawn their consent to be governed by a constitutional government. By what legitimate basis does the United States of America, as a Constitutional republic, still exist?
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
'The People' no longer support that. They voted in support of lawlessness from the highest office on down. They voted against the rule of law. By referendum we now have a banana republic. The USAINO.
American died when the North won the civil war.
It’s pretty much been all downhill since.
Those of us with our noses to the political grindstone would do well to step back and contemplate the fact that a small percentage of our population embraces what we just witnessed on the boob tube.
The American ideal - how it is iterated and practiced in history in a world so full of change - needs a solid voice that undercuts the media on the one hand, and reaches out personally to the masses who do not live in our bubble.If you adhere to what is written in the biblical texts it should come as no surprise to be an alien in the midst of a hostile environment. Count it a blessing!
But does the generation of your youth have the attitude?
Bluntly put: Would they give up claims on Medicare, Medicaid, and Social-Security if it meant the current and future generations would not be saddled with that debt?
More than anything, America is an idea, something that became the greatest experiment in the history of mankind.
In just a few generations that idea has been diluted by the multi-cultralists, moral relativists and politically correct notions that permeate virtually every institution in America.
As a result, America is no longer an idea, it has become just another place.
Medicare and Social Security we have paid into all our working lives. Do I think those have to be improved, yes I do. Privatize social security and medicare, might be the way to go.
That wasn't the question, the question is would your generation, having already paid into these for their working lives, be willing to call it loss for the sakes of current and future generations.
Privatize social security and medicare, might be the way to go.
Why? As long as they are government sponsored entities there will be problems: look at Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.
(That is: Truly privatized and voluntary systems, performing the same functions, would not be rightly called either.)
Look to L.A., if you wonder if the future holds harmonious relations between the two groups.
Coalition breaking, shifting alliances, bribery, and political intrigue were all things that the Easter Roman Empire excelled at. That’s why often refer to things devious and deceptive as Byzantine. I.E. - The modern democrat party employes a very effective Byzantine strategy of pitting race against race, sex against sex, and poor vs. rich.
Well, a hundred years ago, the Victorians were in charge. Manners and honor and good taste were esteemed. Then, came WWI. Right or wrong, the Victorians were blamed for the slaughter wrought by machine guns and fast, breech loading cannon and poison gas. WWI brought us the Roaring 20s! It may well be that the excess brought by the liberals in this decade will cause another Roaring 20s! where the laziness and arrogance of the liberals is thrown out.
With all the talk about angry white males, I would not be surprised to see white people further vilified and targeted for attacks. It’s so creepy. I wonder if the Jews in Nazi Germany thought that surely Hitler wouldn’t do anything drastic after he was elected.
Our political system certainly changed after the Civil War. The 10th Amendment was pushed to the back and federal power expanded beyond restraint. This was not a good development, but one could say that the advances our country made after Reconstruction were without parallel in human history.
IMHO, America after WWII, was clearly at it is apex. We were the greatest nation that ever existed offering more, freedom and opportunity to more people than ever in human history. The real slide began with the change of mores in the 60s. Once we we became decadent, we lost our way.
I agree.
Here's the problem as I see it. You can't reach out "personally to the masses" You have to reach individuals or very small groups on very big scale. I have spent countless hours trying to figure out how to reach people with a message that should be important to them. What I have concluded is that you must first know your audience and when trying to reach a large crowd you could literally have over a dozen perspectives and attitudes within that group.
The message, BTW, has nothing to do with being a republican or democrat, liberal or conservative, those are labels that are attached after the fact.
Our message will not be received by someone that does not have the same foundations of belief. It won't make any sense to them since their worldview is built on a foundation, shaky as it may be, that is incompatible with this new information.
What I have experienced is that even when someone seems amenable, as soon as they realize either consciously or subconsciously that this new information creates a conflict with currently held beliefs, they will either react by disengaging completely or will lash out violently.
I have determined that there are very few things that can change a persons worldview. Experience, crisis and a persons thoughtful sincere quest for truth being the most common. The fact is, most people don't want to hear anything we may have to say, they are just not prepared to deal with the implications.
“Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”- John Adams
Since we are ceasing to be a moral and religious people, then the death of the Constitution will soon follow. Historically speaking, periods of disorder are usually followed by dictatorship or monarchy. That’s probably where this is all headed at some point- back to the default of autocracy. If the beliefs and ideals that underpinned the government established by our Founders disappear, so does the government that stood upon them.
Of course, those d**n social conservatives and their morals don’t matter. /sarc
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.