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BREAKING: Massive Voter Fraud in St. Lucie County, Florida [False assumption? Two card ballot?]
Townhall.com ^ | November 10, 2012 | Heather Ginsberg

Posted on 11/10/2012 4:05:42 PM PST by Kaslin

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To: Conscience of a Conservative

I looked. What is your explanation for the Election Director’s statement? Why no explanation from officials after the NBC affiliate’s interview and pointing this poorly done report on the 7th? Why nothing on their County site. It’s not that I haven’t looked hard enough. I’ve looked all over. I saw the numbers. When snowislander posted his/her explanation last night, I posted it on all the threads that I have been on.

Again, what is YOUR explanation as to the Official and no explanation other than Freepers?

this is a plausible explanation, but to ridicule others for looking at an official county report, the Election director’s comment, an NBC affiliate report, and wonder why no “official” comment out of that County office, is not right.


51 posted on 11/10/2012 4:44:29 PM PST by machogirl (First they came for my tagline, it's back. 2008, the Decline of America)
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To: Kaslin

He should sue to have the results thrown out because it is a clear case of ballot box stuffing.


52 posted on 11/10/2012 4:44:46 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Why is the government more concerned about protecting a microbe on Mars than an unborn baby here?)
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To: Uncle Chip

You may be right in that. No Bureaucrat is ever forced to explain themselves.

This woman looks incompetent and needs to go. I’m not getting taxpayers money to head the Elections dept. in St. Lucie County. I’ll bet it pays very well.


53 posted on 11/10/2012 4:46:14 PM PST by machogirl (First they came for my tagline, it's back. 2008, the Decline of America)
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To: cripplecreek

ABSOLUTELY!!! Make the vote on the day specified, have ID that is impeccable, English ONLY, and if there must be some accommodation for voters who work or must travel, extend the voting DAY to 24 hours...or longer if there are still people in line waiting to vote...but no more.
Absentee ballots should only be delivered to those who CAN NOT get to the polls for provable, VALID REASONS.
MILITARY ballots should receive top priority.


54 posted on 11/10/2012 4:46:19 PM PST by MestaMachine (obama kills and none dare call it treason)
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To: Roos_Girl

Your explanation, if true, adds further confusion. I live and voted in Palm Beach County (District 22, West’s previous district). There were 3 pages to the ballot. They try to ‘improve’ things because this is the home of the infamous butterfly ballot and hanging chads from the 2000 catastrophe. My understanding was that each of the 3 pages had the same serial number, and the volunteers running the show were very careful to verify each voters’ district and precinct based on address. This was the process for early voting, as citizens of PB County were allowed to early vote at any designated early voting location in the county. In other words you did not have to go to your specified precinct to vote because the early voting books contain all roughly million registerd voters in Palm Beach County.

If you early voted you had to sign a document with penalty of law that essentially states you will not vote more than once. On Election Day, obviously only those who hadn’t already voted are authorized to vote, and you are required to vote only at your designate precinct. Unlike early voting, your precinct has books with those people who are registered, alphabetically in their precincts. They check your ID and then you sign the book next to your name. Since Early voting finishes just a few days before Election Day, there is NO update to the precinct books to indicate who already voted early. You are ON YOUR HONOR at that point.

Fraud is very easy because it is assumed nobody is going to check the early voting books against the precinct votes and verify the signed documents. Allen West has a very good reason to check this out. There are millions of people in Palm Beach, Martin and St. Lucie counties. Early voting is loose at best and it’s easy to steal such a close result with the system as it is.


55 posted on 11/10/2012 4:48:28 PM PST by untwist
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To: deport
If the problem were the 2 cards being counted as individual voters, theoretically, you could add the votes for Romney and Obama, double them and come up with a close number. 122,371 votes cast for Obama and Romney x 2 = 244,742. That's a difference of 2,971 and would mean 1485 voters didn't cast a vote toward the president.

Could be possible but seems unlikely. OTOH, I find it deplorable that every time there's a recount, numbers change. There's no excuse for that.

56 posted on 11/10/2012 4:50:12 PM PST by liberalh8ter (If Barack has a memory like a steel trap, why can't he remember what the Constitution says?)
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To: deport

“... 2 page ballot with races on both sides to be marked. Thus one voter had his ballot fed into the counter twice in order to count both pages. If you’ll go look at the total votes for St Lucie cty you’ll see that the actual vote turnout was just over 70%.”

Pesky reality, thanks deport.

Say how did all those great Tea Party House candidates do in Texas?


57 posted on 11/10/2012 4:50:42 PM PST by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
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To: machogirl
Again, what is YOUR explanation as to the Official and no explanation other than Freepers?

My guess about the official's initial "I don't know why" reaction is that the official didn't realize (until asked) that the software had counted things this way and was caught off guard by the question.

I wouldn't expect any further official explanation, because the data explains itself - the first pages of the data are clearly calculated in terms of "Cards Cast", each ballot clearly consisted of two cards, the remainder of the data clearly lists the number of ballots cast in each race (which clearly shows a ~70% turnout), and the official state-level reporting clearly lists a ~70% turnout. To put it bluntly, I wouldn't expect any further official explanation because the data clearly explains itself to anyone who takes the time to actually read past the first two pages.

58 posted on 11/10/2012 4:51:11 PM PST by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: cripplecreek

This won’t stop until red counties start having 150% turnout


59 posted on 11/10/2012 4:52:10 PM PST by MNDude
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

I voted in the Florida election. The ballot was so long that it was on two ballot sheets. I think this is the key. Every voter got two ballot sheets or “cards” to vote with. Not saying that there wasnt massive voting fraud in many places but the 100 plus percent for voter cards is based on each voter getting two cards.


60 posted on 11/10/2012 4:54:59 PM PST by Uncle Lonny
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To: All

-This is my beef. The explanation is plausible.
-The statements that it has been debunked, only debunked by some other Freepers, not OFFICIALLY.
-The Elections Official was asked about this on November 7th, specifically about the first two pages (the turnout question).
-The County Election Head, had “no explanation”. For her own report.
-One would think, a competent, County Elections Head, would know that report inside and out. After all, they are responsible for it.
-One would think, that after she was asked about the turnout, she would go online (yesterday was the 9th, question asked on the 7th), and put an explanation on the site or release a statement so the “disinformation” would be put to rest AND a statement as to how the turnout numbers were calculated.
-That’s not too much to ask for an Official Explanation from the Elections Department. (not that i don’t appreciate the freepers and C of C, I did look for myself and did the division. last night. hence my posts on as many threads as i could re: snow’s plausible explanation)
-If an Official gets paid for a job, is it too much to ask that they do it?


61 posted on 11/10/2012 4:56:54 PM PST by machogirl (First they came for my tagline, it's back. 2008, the Decline of America)
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To: Kaslin

check out cuyahoga county/cleveland. romney won the whole state of ohio but cheatin’ cleveland...
http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2012/11/cuyahoga_county_precinct_map_s.html


62 posted on 11/10/2012 4:57:49 PM PST by biggredd1
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

C of C
I took the time.
Are you sure you don’t know why Muffle Oar outed you?


63 posted on 11/10/2012 4:59:02 PM PST by machogirl (First they came for my tagline, it's back. 2008, the Decline of America)
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To: blueyon

My state did nto go for obama.

here is my county

http://enrnow.votesjc.com/FL/St_Johns/42920/111353/en/md.html?cid=0103

Romney got more counties than 2008.
obama got less than 5000 at Tampa just before election day and yet he is supposed ot have won that area
NO CHANCE

St Lucie county was found to be cheating, then add the 3 Dem counties which gave out ballots to people in line outside and told them to fill them in, to drop them off or mail them in.
There were no ID check either.
Tehn the Dem counties opened their doors for ovting when they were not supposed to and early voting had finshed and then informed Dems to vote but republicans never knew this

That is just a start trust me there is so much more what went on in the 3 Dem counties and yet again the Dem counties waited for the other areas to report in and tentheyreport last knwing how many votes they need to win.

They have been ding this since 2000 and Bush /Gore

Those Dem 3 counties shoudl piss off and leave us be and form their own state as it looks nothing to what our state is.

All liberal northerners, pro union, and poor immigrants from Haiti and Hispanics.

Get out fo those 3 Dem counties and you get a nice decent state


64 posted on 11/10/2012 5:00:08 PM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: libbylu

then there shoud be a hand recount and why did the woman in charge of election who is a fanatic Dem put barriers up so republican observers cannot see

There is so many issues in this election and the GOP talks about reaching out


65 posted on 11/10/2012 5:02:49 PM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: Ravenstar

Source? Official source?


66 posted on 11/10/2012 5:04:28 PM PST by Chaguito
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To: Uncle Chip

then a recount shoudl be done and why did it only happen in her county?
In my county it did not happen, why was that?

Why is it always Demc counties which make this state look stupid?

There are so many other issues which if you do not live here not know about


67 posted on 11/10/2012 5:07:01 PM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: mrsmith

Hi long time no chat. I’m going to plead ignorance regarding how all the races came out in Tx as I’ve been busy getting our house ready for market. We are moving to NC and in fact my wife and daughter are already there.

I went and voted on the first day of early in person voting and really haven’t followed anything closely. I did have to stop and do some searches to see who won our local Congressional race as we had been redistricted again. The GOP candidate won, yeah. I’m still located in a heavy democrat controlled county where it’s hard for a GOP to win county wide. The tide is turning but it’s a slow process.

Glad to hear from you and hope all is well your way.


68 posted on 11/10/2012 5:10:21 PM PST by deport
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To: Kaslin

It’s well known that the USA has two major political parties; the Criminal Party and the Stupid Party. I’ll let you guess which one’s which?


69 posted on 11/10/2012 5:10:33 PM PST by STD (“Cogito, ergo armatum sum)
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To: machogirl
You clearly didn't take enough time. What is your explanation for why the ballots cast in each race add up to ~70% turnout? And why the statewide reporting reports ~70% turnout?

And no, I have no idea why "Muffle Oar" "outed" me. Hell, I don't even remember what "Muffle Oar" "outed" me as - some sort of government agent, maybe? If I recall correctly, it was probably because I didn't buy into the "birther" stuff.

70 posted on 11/10/2012 5:11:59 PM PST by Conscience of a Conservative
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To: Uncle Lonny

it only happened in her county not mine, why?
Why is it that she cannot explain this, ?
Why did she stop West
s observers from seeing the count?
Why did dthe Dem counties have an extra two days of voting when state laws said they should stop?
Why was Dems told to go vote but republicans were not?

Why were they giving out ballots to people and telling themto fill them in and then drop them off or mail them in?
Why was they not checking ID?
Why was republican observers on the day thrown out?

I could go on and on


71 posted on 11/10/2012 5:12:29 PM PST by manc (Marriage =1 man + 1 woman,when they say marriage equality then they should support polygamy)
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To: Kaslin
This is BS, Floridians need to march. Conservatives best wake up to loud peaceful descent real soon
72 posted on 11/10/2012 5:15:08 PM PST by DAC21
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To: untwist

Yes, Orange County runs about the same way, we had 3 page ballots as well. It’s not that I don’t think there was fraud; I certainly do. I just think that the raw data posted for St. Lucie is explained by way of the number of pages scanned.

Here’s what doesn’t make sense to me that I’m trying to find data on. We keep hearing that this year the turnout was lower than 2008, but I don’t recall 2008 turnout being 65% - 70% like we are apparently seeing in all Florida counties. Is Florida turnout that much different than the rest of the country? Am I not recalling the turnout numbers from 2008 correctly?


73 posted on 11/10/2012 5:17:15 PM PST by Roos_Girl (The world is full of educated derelicts. - Calvin Coolidge)
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To: patriot08

“...against all enemies, both foreign and domestic...”


74 posted on 11/10/2012 5:25:21 PM PST by rfreedom4u (I have a copy of the Constitution! And I'm not afraid to use it!)
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To: Chaguito

St. Lucie County Supervisor of Elections Website plus I live in Florida and know for a fact that it was a two card ballot. slcelections.com is the website. If you look at the elections returns for President you will see about 124,000 votes were cast in that race which is consistent with about a 70% turnout.

Ravenstar


75 posted on 11/10/2012 5:27:52 PM PST by Ravenstar (Reinstitute the Constitution as the Ultimate Law of the Land --Cain 2012)
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

CofC, I looked at the Florida site last night, and the County sites. I looked at precinct calculations for Broward and was amazed at some of the precincts enormous Obama votes.

Once again, I point out that an Official Elections site generated a summary report, and the first two pages were questionable.

Why is it so hard for an Official Govt. Site to put a little asterisk? With an explanation? As I pointed out, other Florida Counties (Counties are responsible for certifying their results), were able to count their “cards” without posting two pages that have % turnout of over 100%? Anyone that doesn’t work for that County’s Election Department is bound to be confused when the first two pages are bunk stats? don’t blame me or others for the bunk stats. That lies with St. Lucie County.

The Responsibility goes two ways here.


76 posted on 11/10/2012 5:29:20 PM PST by machogirl (First they came for my tagline, it's back. 2008, the Decline of America)
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To: Uncle Chip; Chipper; Jim Robinson

Jim Robinson- Someone has got to inform Townhall.com-
THIS HAS GOT TO BE STOPPED AS A POST- THE “CARDS” USED TO CALC % ARE THE NUMBER OF PAGES TO MAKE BALLOT, WHICH ARE TWO- THUS YOU HALVES THE % TO GET ACTUAL COUNT.

PEOPLE HAVE TO STOP POSTING THIS AND GO TO LATER ENTRIES OF THIS GOOFBALL WHO GOT IT WRONG TO SEE HE SEES ERROR BUT HE DOESN’T CHANGE TITLE!!!!

I’m sure there was fraud but this isn’t it.

BTW My name is Chip to listen to the three Chips!!!


77 posted on 11/10/2012 5:34:19 PM PST by BonRad
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To: Ravenstar

That completely makes sense, however, other Florida counties had the same amount or more of pages due to local elections. None of those I checked printed out a turnout of over 100% because of the pages of ballots/cards.

The Elections Official needs to say that.

It makes sense, but why didn’t the Official say that when the “disinformation” of the NBC affiliate asked the same question we are and they got shock and surprise and no answer from the Chief.

Is the NBC affiliate that posted the article on the 7th ridiculed? It was an honest question then, and now.


78 posted on 11/10/2012 5:34:40 PM PST by machogirl (First they came for my tagline, it's back. 2008, the Decline of America)
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To: Kaslin
This is BS, Floridians need to march. Conservatives best wake up to loud peaceful descent real soon
79 posted on 11/10/2012 5:35:51 PM PST by DAC21
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To: Kaslin

I think Romney was too quick to concede.


80 posted on 11/10/2012 5:36:08 PM PST by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: deport

So that’s why NC elected all those new Republicans! Welcome to the Mid Atlantic!
(Wondered where you were around the election. Glad to hear all is well.)


81 posted on 11/10/2012 5:39:29 PM PST by mrsmith (Dumb sluts: Lifeblood of the Media, Backbone of the Democrat Party!)
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To: Roos_Girl

I have the same question as you with respect to the turnout. The enthusiasm was very high and the waiting lines for early voting were very long. I haven’t seen the actual percentages but I believe what you are saying.


82 posted on 11/10/2012 5:41:07 PM PST by untwist
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To: Sun

‘Concede’ has no legal meaning. ‘Electors’ will choose the president this December 17.


83 posted on 11/10/2012 5:41:55 PM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: madameguinot

Best poll watchers? High school seniors. No one knows who they are till a week before election day. They are randomly selected from across the country and none of them work in the district they live in.


84 posted on 11/10/2012 5:42:50 PM PST by EQAndyBuzz (Media goes nuts in 2004 because Bush went to the dentist 20 years ago. Benghazi? Nothing.)
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To: BonRad

I’ll bite. Who is the goofball? NBC affiliate WPTV?

I agree that some Freepers explanations are very plausible and I’m agreeing that they are right, but that County has bad software and an incompetent Elections Supervisor.

For the sanctity of the Vote, why can’t Ms. Walker say something other than express surprise at the total? huh?
She’s fed the disinformation by her initial and only response to a TV reporter, to a question by the NBC tv station about HER REPORT.


85 posted on 11/10/2012 5:43:19 PM PST by machogirl (First they came for my tagline, it's back. 2008, the Decline of America)
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To: Roos_Girl

From all indications I saw/read/heard with early voting and Election Day turn out, it was way up over 2008. I just don’t see how the DC 0Care protest, the 2010 enthusiasm and the Chic Fil A Day turn outs mysteriously dissipated on Election Day. I don’t think it did.


86 posted on 11/10/2012 5:46:44 PM PST by Jane Long ("Miss me yet?" - Mitt)
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To: Roos_Girl

I went through Orange County, their software thank goodness and their site, is as user friendly as Broward.

Their data is by Ballots cast and it doesn’t report like St. Lucie. (yes after the first two pages of the St. Lucie report, it breaks down into 70-90% mostly of turnout)

The turnout was (average) just shy of 70%, for Orange.

No report at their official elections site had the bizarre counting of “cards”. They are counted as ballots (1 for each voter), despite the three pages.

St. Lucie County needs a redo of their Elections Site. I found no such disinformation at any other official County Elections website in Florida. It’s their fault for bad reporting to the public via their site.


87 posted on 11/10/2012 5:58:32 PM PST by machogirl (First they came for my tagline, it's back. 2008, the Decline of America)
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To: machogirl

I am not saying that there is not at least incompetence here and I am not saying that there is not fraud, I am just saying the 141% is not it. Other counties got the software settings right so that they didn’t do this bogus report. She should be suspended, Gertrude Walker St. Lucie County Supervisor of Elections, until an investigation is completed and a determination made.

Ravenstar


88 posted on 11/10/2012 5:59:24 PM PST by Ravenstar (Reinstitute the Constitution as the Ultimate Law of the Land --Cain 2012)
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To: deport

The numbers still don’t add up, even with that explanation - if I’m understanding correctly. This says total number of cards cast was 247,713, resulting in 123,591 total votes (presumably in the Presidential election, since that’s what is being tabulated). If every ballot had 2 cards cast, that would be 123,856.5 ballots. (One ballot didn’t have both sides counted, which is problematic.)

There were 397 “blank voted” (undervotes, presumably, where there was no Presidential vote.) That would lower the number of Presidential votes to 123,459. There were 43 “overvoted” (where more than one Presidential candidate was chosen so those votes would be disqualified). That would lower the number of Presidential votes to 123,416. That doesn’t match the claim that there was a total of 123,591 Presidential votes.

Show me not only where it is explained that “cards cast” means how many pages were scanned, but also how these numbers would make sense if audited.


89 posted on 11/10/2012 6:00:40 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: Ravenstar

Agree, heartily! Suspended without pay! I’m sure they get plenty of money for the Elections Dept.


90 posted on 11/10/2012 6:02:21 PM PST by machogirl (First they came for my tagline, it's back. 2008, the Decline of America)
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To: Ravenstar

See my previous post. The numbers don’t add up even with that explanation.


91 posted on 11/10/2012 6:05:07 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: butterdezillion

It’s not explained anywhere but here. I can’t find an official statement other than Ms. Walker interviewed by NBC affiliate on the 7th being shocked at the numbers on the % turnout.

They were questioning her on the numbers and they serve that area. Since she left it on the site as is, she deserves scrutiny. If the NBC affiliate can question the info and why it reads the way it does and get no answer, why can’t we question her first two pages, without being ridiculed?

Thanks again for all your hard work Butter! You’ve done a lot.


92 posted on 11/10/2012 6:06:19 PM PST by machogirl (First they came for my tagline, it's back. 2008, the Decline of America)
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To: mrsmith
Well I hope to be located there before long. But the process will take some time as we are renting for now with the intent to buy once we get to look around and decide on an area. We'll locate somewhere around the Raliegh/Durham area, just not sure the locale yet. I was off line some due to a total compute failure and FR wasn't worth the effort with the slowness. This move will offer a chance to see new regions and explore some. I have a classmate from high school up in VA so I'm going to look him up and reminisce some. Be taling with you.
93 posted on 11/10/2012 6:07:52 PM PST by deport
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To: Kaslin; Jim Robinson; Chipper; Uncle Chip

First GUY in on Townhall comments got it right but everyone’s taking a ride it seems to vent on the election.

I tired to email Heather Ginsberg but I can’t…near lock-up….but its Saturday night afterall and she’s probably drinking.

HUFPO and DU are going to have a field day. Get this post down or change title or do something.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/heatherginsberg/2012/11/10/breaking_massive_voter_fraud_in_st_lucie_county_florida

AlexanderBezukladnikov Wrote: 0 minutes ago (8:45 PM)

What happened was that voter turnout is normally calculated by the number of ballot cards cast by the number of registered voters. Since there were so many amendments up for vote in Florida this year, the ballot was two sheets long. So now St. Lucie’s report shows voter turnouts that are double what the actual number is. So they counted sheets, not voters, a clerical issue not a conspiracy. If the reporter here had bothered to read page 3, they could see that the number of votes in the presidential race is around a 70% turnout rate.
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94 posted on 11/10/2012 6:09:10 PM PST by BonRad
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To: butterdezillion

I did see your explanation and though I have not gone through it step by step against what is posted I trust you are right. I didn’t say there weren’t inconsistencies just that there is an explanation for the 141%. Now why was she so incompetent to allow that to happen? That definately means there should be an investigation and as I said before a Suspension until it is complete with valid counts being demonstable.

Ravenstar


95 posted on 11/10/2012 6:11:11 PM PST by Ravenstar (Reinstitute the Constitution as the Ultimate Law of the Land --Cain 2012)
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

See my last post. For instance, how do you get an odd number of cards cast in your scenario? And why does subtracting the overvotes (disqualified Presidential votes) and undervotes (no Presidential vote) result in less Presidential votes (using your method) than the number of Presidential votes they say were cast?


96 posted on 11/10/2012 6:12:30 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: Conscience of a Conservative

Ah, the Hawaii state registrar has now legally confirmed that you were wrong about the “birther” stuff, now that they’ve confirmed that Obama’s HI BC is not legally valid.

And now I’m pointing out that these numbers still don’t add up even using your explanation. Unless you’ve got a way to reconcile the discrepancies caused by your theory, I’ll presume that attention to detail is not your strong suit. And that’s the kindest explanation.


97 posted on 11/10/2012 6:19:54 PM PST by butterdezillion
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To: manc

I agree with that both the card/141% turnout thing is bad info.


98 posted on 11/10/2012 6:26:33 PM PST by libbylu
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To: libbylu

I love how we’re only concerned with voter fraud if it hits over 100%...thats why 99% turnout is ok


99 posted on 11/10/2012 6:28:20 PM PST by lancium
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To: BonRad

This is most likely plausible. But other than fellow Freepers, where is this written as the reason?

That’s all I want to know. (that and why the Elections Chief doesn’t seem to know what her report says)


100 posted on 11/10/2012 6:29:02 PM PST by machogirl (First they came for my tagline, it's back. 2008, the Decline of America)
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