Skip to comments.The certain oncoming American economic collapse, when and how?
Posted on 11/11/2012 5:19:18 AM PST by reaganator
Many of us know the continuation of Leftist economic policies are destined to cause the economic and fiscal collapse of the United States. The Republican controlled House of Representatives may be a temporary firewall. My question is what will be the order of events of the melt down? I expect with each piece of the failure the federal government to intervene even more causing more problems. It would be very helpful in making preparations to survive these times to have an idea of how and when the collapse will unfold. If you have also been speculating on this topic share your thoughts, or especially if you have any knowledge based insight please tell us what you know.
” The certain oncoming American economic collapse, when and how?”
When? When it wants to
If you wish to know the how this happens, read up on the Weimar Republic - we are following their exact footsteps
A Humble Prognostication
Economic catastrophe starting about 2015
We have only seen a whisper of this
Entrepreneurs cease to Build Businesses, Jobs disappear
Distribution Channels Collapse
Health Care drops to level of Frontier Medicine
Government responds by Killing Self Love
and replacing it with Fear
About 20,000,000 deaths in US alone
possible as much as 1/3 population
Widespread suffering, starvation, pestilence
Cities will be death traps
The only thing to prevent it was to
permit a lesser catastrophe
But the cards are dealt now
Be Kind One to Another
Tenderhearted, Forgiving One Another
Do Justly, Love Mercy, Walk Humbly
Live in Christ
Just waiting for Kristallnacht, expect this time we are the Jews.
What if 12.6 percent of the hospitals in America outright close?
What if Catholic bishops arent bluffing?
Earlier this week, Francis Cardinal George of the archdiocese of Chicago sent a message to parishioners in Barack Obamas home town that imposition of the HHS mandate to fund and facilitate contraception, abortifacients, and sterilization would force the Catholic Church to close its hospitals, clinics, schools, and all other organizations that would otherwise have to comply. Two Lents from now, Cardinal George warned, unless something changes, the page [listing Catholic organizations] will be blank.
The Catholic Church has perhaps the most extensive private health-care delivery system in the nation. It operates 12.6 percent of hospitals in the U.S., according to the Catholic Health Association of the U.S., accounting for 15.6 percent of all admissions and 14.5 percent of all hospital expenses, a total for Catholic hospitals in 2010 of $98.6 billion. Whom do these hospitals serve? Catholic hospitals handle more than their share of Medicare (16.6 percent) and Medicaid (13.65) discharges, meaning that more than one in six seniors and disabled patients get attention from these hospitals, and more than one in every eight low-income patients as well. Almost a third (32 percent) of these hospitals are located in rural areas, where patients usually have few other options for care.
Of course, its not just hospitals. The Catholic Church runs over 7500 primary and secondary education schools in the US (where over a third of students are non-Catholics), educating more than 2.5 million students. Thanks to a near-blanket moratorium on vouchers, taxpayer money doesnt get used in teaching these students in a system that has a 99% graduation rate and a 97% success rate at placing students in college. Based on an average student cost of $8000 in public schools, Catholic schools save taxpayers about $20 billion dollars a year.
Hitler blamed the Jews for his country’s problems
Obama blames the rich, which fulfills the same archetype in bigotry.
It is well-known that blacks & Jews do not get along (q.v. Farrakhan to point out the most extreme example). Notice there are lots of “Black Muslims”..
Or in a broader sense read “After America: Get Ready for Armageddon” by Mark Steyn.
Let's not assume that communism will fail in the United States. With the "Smartest Man in History" leading from our White House, I'm sure that socialism will be as successful in the United States as when it was tried in Afghanistan, Albania, Bulgaria, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Ethiopia, Hungary, Mongolia, Poland, Romania, Russia, Somalia, and Yugoslavia - and as successful as it is today in China, Vietnam, Cuba, Venezuela, and North Korea. What could go wrong?
The moment the Fed Reserve decides its time. If they do not purchase our T-Bills at auction, interest rates will skyrocket and we are gonzo.
Funny how the only guy able to make money was the one producing paper for the banknotes.
Most federal revenues come from individual taxpayers. Personal income taxes are the largest portion of total tax revenues. Social Security and Medicare payroll taxes are the second-largest source.
PERCENTAGE OF TOTAL FEDERAL REVENUE (2011)
Source: Congressional Budget Office.
Total Revenue: $2.3 Trillion (2011) $2.469 trillion (2012)
Social Security $819 Billion(2011) $841 billion (2012) (Running at a deficit)
Net = $1,481 Billion (2011) $1,628 Billion (2012)
$1,481 B Net Revenue / $16,200 B debt = 9.14%
$1,628 B Net Revenue / $16,600 B debt = 10%
It is not possible to cut spending and raise taxes combined to balance the budget. The head in the sand approach will not work. If they try to inflate away the debt, the interest alone will exceed our total revenue.
The government printing presses cant keep this ponzi scheme going much longer.
The risk free rate of interest has traditionally been inflation rate plus 3 percentage points. Under Bush Sr. the average outstanding maturity of our National Debt was around 10 yrs. Clinton lowered that to around 3 yrs. It is as though we have our country financed on a variable rate credit card right now as the bulk of the debt is short term maturity and thus, very interest rate sensitive.
If they try to inflate us out of this mess with short term debt the interest rates will go through the roof.
Clinton changing the cost of living index in 1992 is what set us up for this mess. His selling gold futures and currency manipulation allowed it to continue. Bush W is not much better as he continued the practices.
All of the above, combined with taking us off the gold standard, put us in lala land financially in this country.
I would expect that, if that happened, the Government would step in to take over (buy?, nationalize?) those institutions, particularly the hospitals.
I think it probably is a bluff though as the Bishops must realize that doing such would leave the Church on the short end of the political stick. The state of religion is such that most Catholics would blame them, not Obama — just as most Catholics voted for Obama despite their urging.
Look for some figleaf “compromise” that will keep this from happening.
I’d guess a couple of omens will portend the actual collapse:
1. Another credit downgrade of U.S. debt
2. Look for the bids on U.S. 10 year notes to fall below 2 times offered debt at auction
3. Expect the Fed to jack interest rates in desperation - which will lead, of course, to MORE DEBT
4. This will cause inflationary pressures to hit hard. So hard that even the liberal press will start talking about inflation
5. Sudden, we’ll start seeing a lot of “UNEXPECTEDLY” news stories. “Unemployment UNEXPECTEDLY Rises to 9.5%”
6. Obama announces sweeping defense cuts and massive tax increases on the wealthy to combat the growing crisis
7. There is general unrest in the inner cities. It isn’t full-on riots, but flash mob robberies and assaults become a daily news story
8. A flash mob assault turns into Bernie Goetz style event, with 5-6+ dead. Naturally, THIS leads to looting, arson, and LA-style riots
9. Internationally, the EU totters on the brink of collapse. German sentiment to leave the EU goes to an all-time high. The sovereign debt crisis starts to boil over
Now we are at the tipping point, any number of events could kick off #10, which is an international crisis that leads to war. It could be.
10. Israel attacks Iran, leading quickly to a larger scale Mideast war.
10. Putin does something REALLY stupid when it comes to either Eastern Europe of international Arctic waters.
10. North Korea finally invades South Korea.
10. The EU crisis turns into another land war in Europe.
10. China invades either Taiwan or Japan (over those islands)
10. The U.S. defaults on debts, leading to an attack on the U.S. (This could actually happen as a result of monetizing the debt and foreign countries insisting the U.S. *not* pay in fiat dollars, but hard assets like gold.)
Almost every country has a debt crisis - some more than others. The only way out is for all the countries to decide NOT to pay. That will obviously be both the result AND cause of war.
Have you seen Camden, New Jersey recently? Detroit? They've already collapsed.
Obama may have been reelected "King of the Blue Counties" -- by a hair -- but most of the US is still red.
The interest rates that Government pays has been heading to zero for some time—this is not an accident. The reason is that the Federal Reserve (not foreigners) buys most of our bonds these days. If they didn’t, we’d have a failed bond auction and interest rates would immediately skyrocket. Zero interest rates reduce the debt burden and mean the Government can borrow with near impunity. So, as long as the Fed can keep doing that without consequences, the charade will go on.
Ultimately, the consequence will be hyperinflation. While inflation for food is high, its not high for other things. In fact, oil prices pretty much flutuate between $75-$100 per barrel. We’ve had close to hyperinflation before (1979-80), but this time we will have it with zero interest rates, so the pain will be much greater.
Ridiculous! Nonsense, I say! Unemployment will drop to 5%. And it will do so by the old fashioned, time tested way: By changing the metric. Under obama 2 anybody receiving an EBT card and living in section 8 is now "employed". See how easy it is to make everything better in muslimerica? Especially with a lock stop, or should I say goosestep MSM carrying the water.
Jesus what are you waiting for ?
I really don’t think they are bluffing. Not at all.
Short of outright confiscation, I don’t see the privately owned Catholic hospitals playing ball with those who are responsible for the destruction of religious freedom.
I could see them reorganizing who and how they employee people at the schools but the hospitals I think will close.
This is so fundamentally against Catholics and Catholic teachings and a line in the sand will be drawn and I don’t predict a fig-leaf will be acceptable.
I would expect Obama to cave first not the Catholic Church.
The Economy Is Going To Implode
I watched all 8 videos last night. Ann does a very good job of explaining some difficult economic conditions facing us right now. She thinks Jon Corzine should be executed by firing squad and everybody should be out of the stock market yesterday.
As good a list as any, although I think that with respect to interest rates, we are locked in. I would add a couple of hunches that would indicate panic. 1) a market downturn coupled with heavy rumors that French banks are in real trouble. 2) Rumors that JPMorgan or GS are over-exposed, and in trouble. 3) Further unrest within China, as their bubble economy takes its toll on Chinese workers. 4) Emergency meetings of the Fed — would potentially signal that they are seeing the beginnings of chain reactions in capital calls. 5) signs of interbank credit problems.
Personally, I believe that this will play out like a classic deflationary collapse, albeit on a gargantuan scale in terms of volume, and also in terms of being world-wide. The Fed and other central banks will be faced with a choice — do nothing, or try to inject liquidity in the system. They will choose the latter, not wanting to be blamed. It would have to be so massive that to reverse the deflation (which at this point would be cascading), would result in an almost immediate hyper-inflation — rejection of currency, as opposed to inflation on steroids. Whatever the Fed does doesn’t really matter, in the case of a deflationary collapse. The deflationary fuel is too great. All roads in this case lead to a widespread credit crises, coupled with currency collapse (world-wide). Beyond that, who knows. It ceases to be an economic issue, at that point.
What's worse? WARIII! Look for it to began in the Middle East soon.
Pray this isn't the scenario:
But wait, there's more:
Untold numbers of volcanic eruptions, massive earthquakes and possible tectonic plate shifts culminating with the start of the next ice age lasting for a mere 100,000 years. Oh, and don't forget the sun which has been acting strangely.
And finally for an added sign, check out the one coming next fall: New Comet DiscoveredMay Become "One of Brightest in History"
Interesting times! Mostly all of the bad parts of the Bible just over the horizon...
-——I would expect Obama to cave first not the Catholic Church.-——
Do you really think so? I don’t at all.....
Obama will simply take the church assets without compensation for the “ good” of the country....by EO...
He would do it in a blink of an eye....
‘Obama may have been reelected “King of the Blue Counties” — by a hair — but most of the US is still red. ‘
And mad as hell...and well armed.
“Don’t Tread On Me”
I’m not sure about a collapse, but it seems likely. A major war looks like the alternative. It’s going to be a long, tense four years.
reaganator, the usa is on an unsustainable path and obama is not interested in changing the trajectory.
but, one thing to keep in mind is that the UK, Japan and the EU are in worse shape than the US, if you take the size of their banking sectors into account. the size of the banks is important because they hold so much gov’t debt. a sovereign debt crisis, becomes a banking crisis, which increases the scale of the sovereign debt crisis... it is a vicious positive feedback loop (europe is already in this loop)
because of america’s (relative to the economy) smaller banks, and because the usa so far is the world reserve currency, it is more likely that one of the other major economic entities will collapse first
the endgame for all of the usa, uk, japan and eu is weimar, IF central bankers like bernanke are in charge. If the USA is lucky, one of the others will go first, and the lesson will be learned.
remember, during the depression, additional weimars didn’t happen because everyone had the example of what happened to germany a few years earlier
“just as most Catholics voted for Obama despite their urging.”
this is such a disappointment...unreal. I’m a Catholic and embarrassed by the stupidity. Most must be sleeping through the readings at church.
The Catholic Church is over 2000 years old. Think of all the tyrants they’ve faced in those 2000 years. They’ve been forced underground but they did not back down.
They will not cave to Obamacare. They just won’t. They will shut the hospitals down they won’t comply. Bet on it.
I think if Obama seizes actual buildings and assets then the shooting will be well underway because at that point the fig-leaf that we are anything other than a Marxist/Communist country will be gone.
My prediction is that punk-ass community organizer from Chicago will make an exemption. Meantime he’ll consolidate power and attempt seizure at a later date.
Debka File: Israel fires warning shots into Syria as Gaza front escalates
Israels deteriorating security situation erupted simultaneously on two fronts Sunday, Nov. 11. The IDF fired a warning shot against a mortar position 4 kilometers inside Syria after a stray mortar hit the IDF Golan defense post at Tel Hazaka. It was the fourth incident of cross-border violence from the Syrian conflict in 10 days and the first time Israel had fired across the Golan border since the 1973 war.
At the same time, on the southern front, Palestinians fired Grad missiles from Gaza at the city of Beersheba after loosing a barrage of 60 missiles in less than 24 hours against multiple Israeli civilian locations. Iron Dome intercepted one of the missiles.
Four Israeli soldiers were wounded Saturday, two seriously by an anti-tank missile which set their jeep on fire. Four civilians were injured in their homes and hospitalized Sunday.
The shot fired at Syria was described by the IDF spokesman as a warning to Damascus, backing up the Defense Minister Ehud Barak warning last week that spillovers from the Syrian war would not be tolerated and would elicit a military response.
Israels military command expects the military confrontation on the Gaza front to escalate. Israels emergency services have been elevated to maximum C-level preparedness in the South and also further north, in case Hamas expands its rocket offensive to central Israel as well.
The Palestinian Gaza terrorist grades are now firing Multiple-Launch Rocket Systems (MLRS) Katyshas supplied by the Lebanese Hizballah and 120-mm bunker-busting mortars in their current offensive against Israeli towns, villages and troops, Israeli lawmaker Shay Hermesh revealed Sunday, Nov. 11 after 6 civilians sere hospitalized.
The Knesset member who lives in Kfar Azza spoke after more than 60 assorted rockets hit southern Israel from Saturday. The public radio Kol Israel interrupted the interview with Hermesh at that point to prevent any more discolosures.
debkafile: The civilians injured Sunday in intense rocket fire aimed at Sderot, Shear Hanegev and the Eshkol district were apparently caught by concentrated Katyusha fire rather than the hit-or-miss Qassams or Grads.
Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu opened the weekly cabinet session by saying: We are set to escalate our response.
debkafile reported Saturday: Violence spewed out of the Gaza Strip again Saturday night, Nov. 10, with a rocket attack on an IDF Givaty Brigade jeep on a routine task some distance from the border, injuring four Israeli soldiers one critically, two in moderate condition. This time Hamas contractor was the Palestinian Popular Front. After Israeli tanks and helicopters fired back, the Palestinians loosed rockets against the Eshkol and Shear Hanegev districts, followed by Grad rockets aimed at Ashkelon, Ashdod and Gan Yavneh. Iron Dome intercepted two. Locations north of Ashdod as far north as Gedera went on missile alert. No more casualties are reported thus far.
Thursday, Nov. 8, Palestinian terrorists detonated by remote a tunnel packed with explosives against a group of Israeli soldiers. None were hurt. The soldiers were searching for bombs rigged as booby-traps for use against their comrades. IDF units in the Gaza sector have been on high alert since before then as Palestinian attacks have kept on coming in an escalating spate eight from Oct. 8 until this Saturday.
But before that, on Oct. 6, two days after an Iranian stealth drone flew over Israel, Hamas loosed its heaviest barrage ever of 60 rockets and missiles against the Eshkol district. The IDF made no response this this outrage.
On Oct. 13, after an Israeli air strike killed the jihadist Majlis Shuras commander, Hisham Saidani, Israeli civilians in Beersheba, Netivot and other locations suffered two running days of Palestinian rocket fire on their homes.
On Oct. 19, an IDF patrol was hit by a roadside bomb near Ein Hashlosha.
For three days, Oct. 22-25, rocket salvoes descended on Ashkelon and other locations. This time, the Palestinians began firing for the first time mobile 120mm multiple-firing Katyusha systems. Another roadside bomb near Kissufim seriously injured a senior IDF officer, blowing off both his arms..
There was a further escalation after the Israeli bombardment of an Iranian missile plant near Khartoum, one of Hamas arms suppliers. On Oct. 28, Palestinian Grad missiles were again fired at Beersheba and the regional area of Dimona where Israels nuclear reactor is situated.
Now, once again, nearly a million civilians living within the Palestinian terrorists ever widening radius of fire are being told to stay close to shelters those who have them - and mayors worry about opening schools.
And once again, they hear that the Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu has called an urgent conference with Defense Minister Ehud Barak and Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Benny Gantz. The people living in an area between Gedera and the southern tip of the Gaza Strip up to Beersheba wait again on tenterhooks for some action to put an end to their long agony as hostages to Hamas.
“If you wish to know the how this happens, read up on the Weimar Republic - we are following their exact footsteps”
Sad part of it is that the pattern is COMPLETELY following them. Remember what happened after the crash of the economy and the flu epidemic hit. They were searching for King to rescue them from all the distress and along came Hitler. The pattern is, when the go is crushed, without religion it will always revert to dependency and surrender to another human being.
Same with the Jews 2000 years ago, they were defeated by the Romans and searching for a King to rescue them. Along came this guy and they tried to make him King, but He said, “My kingdom is not of this world.” and instead taught them how to get to his kingdom.
This is why I expected Obama to win. To set us up for the great fall that must precede the arrival of the false messiah.
Or give give the Catholic Church an exemption UNTIL they can build government owned Obamacare hospitals (meaning gymnasiums with beds and foreign doctors) that replace the 12% Catholic Hospitals.
We can start down the same road as the Wiemar Republic, but we cannot follow them. The economy is a different kind of entity now. This does not end in wheelbarrows full of cash. This ends when, suddenly, the credit that our economy relies on to function disappears, and there is no currency left with which to conduct business. The modern global economy is to the German economy of the 30’s as a computer is to counting on your hands, in terms of complexity. Destabilize the currency to a sufficient degree, and all but the simplest production ceases.
Crazy as it is, if this collapse is coming my biggest fear is not of the collapse itself but that it doesn’t happen soon enough. My husband (aka gorilla)is 56 and I just turned 50. We have two boys 18 & 19 still living at home. Add to this numerous nieces and nephews with young children. I can’t bear the though of them going through this with out us being there to protect them. Faster please.
“Hitler blamed the Jews for his countrys problems
Obama blames the rich, which fulfills the same archetype in bigotry.”
Pretty close. Obama blames rich WHITE folks; he directs no blame toward multi-millionaire black athletes and “artists.”
I, for one, am not willing to walk into the gas chamber of high debt and punitive taxes.
“Obama will simply take the church assets without compensation for the good of the country....by EO...”
You are correct. Reagan fired the air traffic controllers because no one has the right to go on strike if that strike endangers the public safety. He replaced the controllers with the military. He relied on the words of Coolidge when doing so.
Mugabe will quote Reagan and state that no one, meaning the Catholic Church, has the right to shut down hospitals since that would endanger the public safety. In comes the miltary.
At that point, Mugabe will have set his own precedent that the government can seize public assets for the good of the country — even if it includes your local pizza parlor and laudromat.
Just wait... as soon as dramatically higher inflation starts, this vile and ignorant Marxist POS will begin blaming the capitalist system and, more importantly, the “wealthy”. To his ignorant parasitic supporters, “wealthy” will be seen as anyone who has something they don’t - a nice car, a nice house, etc. As a result, anyone who has worked for these things (i.e. the productive citizens of the country paying to keep the parasites alive) are buying guns and preparing for the economic and societal upheaval. IMHO, its going to get really ugly before it gets any better...
Great point and likely accurate. If the Catholic church doesn't cave on the hospitals (and sorry, but I fully expect them to) then I'm sure this is Obama's backup plan.
I was curious to see whether anyone would demonstrate to me why I was wrong of the certainty of the American economic and fiscal collapse.
No one yet.
It's certain and it was going to happen whether Romney or Obama was elected. No argument here.
The way they see it, they can't save America until they break it. As we have seen in this election, people will reach out for those promising to help them even if those people are the cause of the problem.
The left intends to provoke a mind-blowing world crisis that they can then lead the world out of into a brave new star trek world without greed or hunger.
They might even succeed, after a fashion. But even if they gain the power they want they will probably wind up with Hitler's Germany or Stalin's Russia rather than Star Trek.
Of course they may just plunge us all into a new dark age.
Be Kind One to Another Tenderhearted, Forgiving One Another
Do Justly, Love Mercy, Walk Humbly
Live in Christ
and load up on ammunition!!!
I am sorry to say that I expect a large portion of the Catholic Church to disobey an edict to close hospitals. Any that do close will be taken over by the obozo regime.
Just to add to your points.
As bad as it is, the Obama economy is performing at its peak level now - and we still have $1 Trillion deficits. Imagine for a second if the economy experiences some kind of shock?
Tax revenues will drop like a rock. Entitlement spending will increase even faster. The deficit will quickly go to $1.5 Trillion or higher.
Imagine what kind of money-printing will the FED need to do then?
I don’t understand the actual ownership of these hospitals but if the Vatican outright owns them and has the power to shut them down or sell them they will.
IMHO they will not comply. They might as well ask them to take down crosses in church. Ain’t going to happen.
Bathhouse Barry may seize them but that’s not the Catholic church complying.